CB Fry Posted 30 November, 2014 Share Posted 30 November, 2014 (edited) @Vectis Saint @Melmecian Do either of you think Steven Davis could play for a top-four team? Has any top-four team or big club shown an interest in him? If yes, please let me know. If not, please let me know at what level you believe he could play at? Top-six perhaps? Typical English fan syndrome. Mane gets written off after one bad game, Wanyama the same last season, fans were still rating Dean ****ing Hammond higher than Schneiderlin as late as 2012 and Gaston was always the scapegoat whenever he could be. However, Lambert, Cork, Davis and even Shane Long (though all are good players with decent attributes who've all made good contributions to the side in recent years) are utterly beyond criticism. Any criticism. Even suggesting that they could be improved upon or pointing out that they aren't good enough for a top six/top four team or that whilst they're decent, they do have weaknesses, seems to knaw at people who love a 'good, honest, British player!' And no, 90% of our staring XI isn't a victim of our own success. The entire back four as well as both central-midfielders could conceivably play for a top-four team. Even Tadic and Mane wouldn't look out of place at all for a Spurs or a Liverpool. Davis is a good lad and a great player, but he has his limits. SFC will never have a team of pure top 4 talent. Get used to it. If we get into the top 4 this season it will be down to the likes of Davis busting their balls to oblivion to achieve it. Edited 30 November, 2014 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 30 November, 2014 Share Posted 30 November, 2014 I think Wanyama is immense - one of the big successes this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasiak-9- Posted 1 December, 2014 Share Posted 1 December, 2014 You couldn't make this stuff up could you? You ask whether or not he could play at a top 4/top 6 level and immediately you're told that the club and the fans ought to lower their expectations and ambitions precisely to accommodate the likes of triers like Steven Davis And like I say, I think he's a great little player who's served us very well, but you have to remember the guy is supposed to be a number 10 and as such, has creative responsibility. Every time he gets the ball in space running into the final third the final ball is either too slow or just plain old inaccurate (if he sees it at all). Its not too much to ask him to improve on this; or, if he's not good enough, to go out looking for an improvement like Clasie (which hopefully Koeman's doing at the moment) What I'm arguing against isn't so much him personally or as a player, but more the blind, blinkered defence of him (that we had last season with Lambert) whenever even the slightest criticism of him is brought up. No-one ends up able to look at the player or the side objectively if they pick their favourites. All I'm saying is simply that if we do want to kick on to the next level (if), then the likes of Steven Davis, good as they've been, are players upon whom we'll genuinely have to improve. That's the cold, hard, raw skinny I'm afraid gents. (oh, and you're not a top-four side until you finish there at the end of the season any more than Chelsea are already the Champions in November). Lets see if the likes of United, Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal are circling likes vultures over the likes the Steven Davis as they will be with Schneiderlin, Wanyama and Clyne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 1 December, 2014 Share Posted 1 December, 2014 You couldn't make this stuff up could you? You ask whether or not he could play at a top 4/top 6 level and immediately you're told that the club and the fans ought to lower their expectations and ambitions precisely to accommodate the likes of triers like Steven Davis And like I say, I think he's a great little player who's served us very well, but you have to remember the guy is supposed to be a number 10 and as such, has creative responsibility. Every time he gets the ball in space running into the final third the final ball is either too slow or just plain old inaccurate (if he sees it at all). Its not too much to ask him to improve on this; or, if he's not good enough, to go out looking for an improvement like Clasie (which hopefully Koeman's doing at the moment) What I'm arguing against isn't so much him personally or as a player, but more the blind, blinkered defence of him (that we had last season with Lambert) whenever even the slightest criticism of him is brought up. No-one ends up able to look at the player or the side objectively if they pick their favourites. All I'm saying is simply that if we do want to kick on to the next level (if), then the likes of Steven Davis, good as they've been, are players upon whom we'll genuinely have to improve. That's the cold, hard, raw skinny I'm afraid gents. (oh, and you're not a top-four side until you finish there at the end of the season any more than Chelsea are already the Champions in November). Lets see if the likes of United, Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal are circling likes vultures over the likes the Steven Davis as they will be with Schneiderlin, Wanyama and Clyne. The "cold hard skinny" is we will never be a true top four team. We might finish top four this season, it's still unlikely, but possible. Either way, we are never going to do it regularly. Get used to it. You might be supporting the wrong team if all you want to do is bundle out the excellent players that worked hard to get us to the position we are now in. There are other teams to fulfil your all-killer no-filler squad requirements. That Chelsea look pretty good. Check em out. Top four, like, all the time and that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmacian_saint Posted 1 December, 2014 Share Posted 1 December, 2014 Steven Davis is NOT our number ten. Nor has he ever been in his career. We don't really play with a number ten as such anyway, rather with a DM (Wanyama) and two box-to-box midfielders. What games have you been watching? Are you sure you don't want to write this in the Arsenal or Man U forum?? And I've already suggested we sign Rasiak, he a TRUE example of the idolizing of mediocrity that you criticize so much. I find it funny that you complain about the typical English fan mentality without mentioning the unrealistic expectations regarding success arising from a deluded perception of total and compete knowledge of the "tried and tested" formula of winning games and trophies. Such attitude has made us judge the state of our national team and player base with such terrifying inaccuracy that we're now lagging most of the other big nations by at least 10 years (our club perhaps the exception that confirms the rule). Plus I find it extremely rich that you come out with all that rant after our first really bad game of the season, and after the player in question came back from injury straight to the starting eleven and had no more than a couple of normal training sessions before he got back in the team to face the CHAMPIONS. Yes, because that's what you need to be in the Top 4: have a team capable of challenging title contenders. We don't, and it's no tall-poppy syndrome, Jute law etc... to admit it! No one is saying those clubs will chase him, mainly because those players still have potential to improve while Steven is at his peak. He is, in case you haven't noticed, older than them too. Might I add, he also has more national titles in his bag than we do as a club. If you believe that sort of player is already too big for us, then I'm afraid you need to change seat, ensure you're watching the right channel, tune in to Radio Solent for some audio help etc... to be more aware that you are watching SFC, a team possibly at the peak of its modern history and with a positive outlook, but that is very far from the world of money-****ting, fickle owners and absurd transfers that crowd more ambitious teams. It is also a team that has been through a rebuilding process likely sped up by such a great start to the season. Does that mean we've become CL challengers? No, of course not. That takes much longer than one transfer window and a season finishing in 8th. Are we more likely to ever become? I don't think so either, maybe but we are still too far away to suggest that an established professional with a very good record for us, his country and at the time an important club in the British football scene is holding us back. Of course on recent evidence we don't really seem to appreciate players that have improved BOTH themselves and the club in a VERY CLEAR way and seem grateful for it, as we did also think that Ramirez, Osvaldo or Lovren were the key to the future. And that is also the cold, hard , flesh and bone reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasiak-9- Posted 2 December, 2014 Share Posted 2 December, 2014 Steven Davis is NOT our number ten. Nor has he ever been in his career. We don't really play with a number ten as such anyway, rather with a DM (Wanyama) and two box-to-box midfielders. What games have you been watching? Are you sure you don't want to write this in the Arsenal or Man U forum?? And I've already suggested we sign Rasiak, he a TRUE example of the idolizing of mediocrity that you criticize so much. I find it funny that you complain about the typical English fan mentality without mentioning the unrealistic expectations regarding success arising from a deluded perception of total and compete knowledge of the "tried and tested" formula of winning games and trophies. Such attitude has made us judge the state of our national team and player base with such terrifying inaccuracy that we're now lagging most of the other big nations by at least 10 years (our club perhaps the exception that confirms the rule). Plus I find it extremely rich that you come out with all that rant after our first really bad game of the season, and after the player in question came back from injury straight to the starting eleven and had no more than a couple of normal training sessions before he got back in the team to face the CHAMPIONS. Yes, because that's what you need to be in the Top 4: have a team capable of challenging title contenders. We don't, and it's no tall-poppy syndrome, Jute law etc... to admit it! No one is saying those clubs will chase him, mainly because those players still have potential to improve while Steven is at his peak. He is, in case you haven't noticed, older than them too. Might I add, he also has more national titles in his bag than we do as a club. If you believe that sort of player is already too big for us, then I'm afraid you need to change seat, ensure you're watching the right channel, tune in to Radio Solent for some audio help etc... to be more aware that you are watching SFC, a team possibly at the peak of its modern history and with a positive outlook, but that is very far from the world of money-****ting, fickle owners and absurd transfers that crowd more ambitious teams. It is also a team that has been through a rebuilding process likely sped up by such a great start to the season. Does that mean we've become CL challengers? No, of course not. That takes much longer than one transfer window and a season finishing in 8th. Are we more likely to ever become? I don't think so either, maybe but we are still too far away to suggest that an established professional with a very good record for us, his country and at the time an important club in the British football scene is holding us back. Of course on recent evidence we don't really seem to appreciate players that have improved BOTH themselves and the club in a VERY CLEAR way and seem grateful for it, as we did also think that Ramirez, Osvaldo or Lovren were the key to the future. And that is also the cold, hard , flesh and bone reality. I think I've spoken to you about this before, but what in the world is in a silly little internet username? There are posters here called Ali Dia and George Weah's Cousin, is that supposed to somehow discredit their opinions? I didn't realise that it mattered, had I known, I'd have called myself 'Matthew Le Tissier' and been right about everything apparently Anyway, red herrings aside, Davis does a job and is. a. good. player, but he does have his weaknesses and can most certainly be improved upon. Playing in the position that he does, with us using two of three central midfielders for dedicated, defensive roles, Steven Davis does have, as I say, a 'creative responsibility' insofar as if we're not scoring goals, he has to shoulder at least some of the blame as the 4th most advanced player of the 11 men on the pitch. There is no reason why he couldn't or shouldn't be arriving late into the box to chip in with a few more goals and when he does, the finish should be better (the backpass away to Liverpool at 1-1 being one example that springs to mind). Likewise, he has to be able to distribute the ball out wide far more quickly and accurately (something that Citeh's midfielders could do on Sunday with a frankly, terrifying consistency). Far too often the pass to Tadic and Mane have come far too late and often been behind them, slowing everything down and giving our opponents time to regroup, which completely nullifies Pelle's threat of arriving late into the box to meet a cross (which to be fair, we managed once against City (albeit with them down to 10 men). The Sunderland freak result (not a fluke, but certainly a freak result) has massively skewed our goalscoring potential. We've scored 16 in 12 in the other games, and that's against some (relatively speaking) fairly weak opponents. Now, I'm not calling for him to be dropped at all, having a player like him in the midfield does add a great deal and like I say, he's a good player who we sorely missed against Villa. However, what I am objecting to is the fact that on this forum, he has become, like Lambert last season, utterly impossible to criticise and a complete and utter blindspot in terms of people's analysis of our performances. Anyway! I guess we'll have to agree to differ overall. I just wanted to make the limits of my criticisms clear alongside the fact that I'm hardly slating the guy. But yeah, there you have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 2 December, 2014 Share Posted 2 December, 2014 Well argued Rasiak and criticism seems bit unfair considering some of the moronic opinions on here. Don't actually agree with you on Davis although you put your point across well. Having said that I am now starting to think he is becoming overrated by a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 1 January, 2015 Share Posted 1 January, 2015 Hell of a lot better than I thought he was ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 2 January, 2015 Share Posted 2 January, 2015 Just watching Sky's "Match Choice" and they started by saying it was SD's 30th birthday (We forgot to send a card ) and that it was the 12th time he had played Arsenal and had never been on the winning side. Presumably referring to League games only. Double celebration then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 2 January, 2015 Share Posted 2 January, 2015 MOTM according to the Mail. They gave him 8.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 2 January, 2015 Share Posted 2 January, 2015 Great touch to set up the second goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbot79 Posted 2 January, 2015 Share Posted 2 January, 2015 Davis is a great, solid player. Can't understand the criticism sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 2 January, 2015 Share Posted 2 January, 2015 One of my favourites, a very technically gifted and clever player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 2 January, 2015 Share Posted 2 January, 2015 Our unsung hero week after week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefizzy14 Posted 2 January, 2015 Share Posted 2 January, 2015 Davis touch and cross for our 2nd goal was sublime. He is so consistent week in week out. And Happy Birthday to SD for yesterday too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 2 January, 2015 Share Posted 2 January, 2015 Our unsung hero week after week. I used to think the same about Nick Holmes,(all those years ago)... he rarely got MOM award, but always put in a shift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igsey Posted 2 January, 2015 Share Posted 2 January, 2015 After a bit of a blip in recent weeks, he's back. What an assist for our second goal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 2 January, 2015 Share Posted 2 January, 2015 He's been a bit guilty in recent games of giving the ball away and then failing to get back quick enough. Been outstanding for us but I hope it's just a blip and he cuts it out soon, I remember him doing it against Stoke I think last season? And City this season both costing us a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 2 January, 2015 Share Posted 2 January, 2015 After a bit of a blip in recent weeks, he's back. What an assist for our second goal! Except it won't be an assist (will it?). Trouble with some people who only look at stats for assists and then think SD is useless because he gets virtually no assists. What he does though is so often create the opening that ends in a goal, two or even three touches later. That said he has been guilty a couple of times recently of giving the ball away in dangerous positions, which is unusual for him. I think however it is because he is having to play deeper centrally when either Morgan or Vic (or both) are not available, and the mistake is magnified. Great player and is really much better this year under RK than under Poch. Would be perfect if he could find his scoring touch again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggles31 Posted 2 January, 2015 Share Posted 2 January, 2015 He has been one of the best signings for us in recent years. Hugely important to the success of this season and that tuoch and cross was absolutely world class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmacian_saint Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 I don't really see why people think he had a bad run of games before the Arsenal game. He played well vs. Everton, with a cross for Yoshida's goal that would've gone viral had Di Maria done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorne Malvo Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 After a bit of a blip in recent weeks, he's back. What an assist for our second goal! Was great touch and cross, but generally in the game I thought he had one of his poorer games and gave the ball away a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 I don't really see why people think he had a bad run of games before the Arsenal game. He played well vs. Everton, with a cross for Yoshida's goal that would've gone viral had Di Maria done it. or even if it was Jack Wilshere (sic)..it would have been replayed on Sky every week for the rest of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 I think Steve Davis is a great player. Just wish he would turn with the ball when its passed to him in acres of space. He nearly always passes it straight back to the person who passed to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 So underrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 So underrated. So few threads about him as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musesaint Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 Class Act #fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 He really is a gifted, committed professional. Can I be among the first to ask the question; as an Irishman, how is it SD speaks with a Scottish accent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 So underrated. The most over rated under rated player of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 or even if it was Jack Wilshere (sic)..it would have been replayed on Sky every week for the rest of the season. What crosses are Sky currently showing every week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 What crosses are Sky currently showing every week? Like MLG, they strive to show no religious bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 He really is a gifted, committed professional. Can I be among the first to ask the question; as an Irishman, how is it SD speaks with a Scottish accent? I can only assume you have never heard someone from Norn Ireland speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 I think Steve Davis is a great player. Just wish he would turn with the ball when its passed to him in acres of space. He nearly always passes it straight back to the person who passed to him. Yes, I've noticed that too. If he could turn with the ball and drive forward he'd be even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 I'm not so sure he's playing well at the moment. As people have said, his first instinct always seems to be to go backwards, often passing the ball straight back to where it came from. And as good as his first touch was for the second goal on Thursday, surely the second touch was actually pretty rubbish? He played it into an area with several Arsenal players and none of ours. It was pure good fortune/awful defending that saw it find it's way through to Tadic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 I can only assume you have never heard someone from Norn Ireland speak. I probably haven't. Thanks for clearing that up Vectis. I am actually Scottish born myself, but have lived in Australia for a long time. In any event, we probably agree Steve Davis is a terrific footballer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 The most over rated under rated player of all time. Jeff Stelling and Merson just mentioned how underrated he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 Jeff Stelling and Merson just mentioned how underrated he is. Tommo was the one singing his praises. "First one on the teamsheet" etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 I'm not so sure he's playing well at the moment. As people have said, his first instinct always seems to be to go backwards, often passing the ball straight back to where it came from. And as good as his first touch was for the second goal on Thursday, surely the second touch was actually pretty rubbish? He played it into an area with several Arsenal players and none of ours. It was pure good fortune/awful defending that saw it find it's way through to Tadic. At least one person who saw what happened. Stupid defending and ridiculous goalkeeping. Good control and a cross straight to a defender who got in a mess. The assist was from the panicking goalkeeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 I probably haven't. Thanks for clearing that up Vectis. I am actually Scottish born myself, but have lived in Australia for a long time. In any event, we probably agree Steve Davis is a terrific footballer. To be fair he wss at Rangers for a while, it probably took some of the edge off his accent. But its def Norn Irish. My missus is from the North, but she has no accent all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 I do love the revisionism of arguing that the true mark of a creative player is that they don't directly provide assists, and that all their work goes on in the shadows, unappreciated. You would think, for a creative central midfielder, that an occasional direct contribution to a goal might be unavoidable, no matter how subtly they were trying to play... Sigurdsson seems to be managing it at least, as does the heavily maligned Jordan Henderson, to name but two who aren't Fabregas/Oscar/etc. Davis is a good player, with decent technique and a good attitude. He's also slow, conservative and in recent weeks, increasingly error-prone. Personally, I thought his best period for the club came last season when Poch utilised him as a last 20 mins sub to close things out with a bit of industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 I do love the revisionism of arguing that the true mark of a creative player is that they don't directly provide assists, and that all their work goes on in the shadows, unappreciated. You would think, for a creative central midfielder, that an occasional direct contribution to a goal might be unavoidable, no matter how subtly they were trying to play... Sigurdsson seems to be managing it at least, as does the heavily maligned Jordan Henderson, to name but two who aren't Fabregas/Oscar/etc. Davis is a good player, with decent technique and a good attitude. He's also slow, conservative and in recent weeks, increasingly error-prone. Personally, I thought his best period for the club came last season when Poch utilised him as a last 20 mins sub to close things out with a bit of industry. Are we talking about the same player hes playing the best football of his career atm,! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 Jeff Stelling and Merson just mentioned how underrated he is. They say Jack Wilshire is underrated every single week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Division South Days Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 Reminds me of Nick Holmes. Class midfielder, never in the headlines, but did a consistent job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBoys Posted 3 January, 2015 Share Posted 3 January, 2015 another great performance by Davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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