Window Cleaner Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Although it would have been nice to have won I feel a draw was quite a good result - Most reports in the papers suggested we played reasonably well and more than deserved a point. God knows what is going to happen to this board if we do eventually lose It was a good result, silly goal of course but the fact that we got a draw after being behind is quite ground breaking for us recently I think. Villa have become a bit of a bogey team for us and you just knew that Agbonlahor would score a breakaway goal. Thought Hutton had a really good game for them, tough nut, should be playing for a better club than Villa and Guzan pulled off the odd good save and commanded his box well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 (edited) apparently, it was villa's lowest home attendance in the league for 15 years.... on the heroes and villains site, many are saying it was a decent point and we were not all 'that' (fair enough) nearly all are just lost for words with Lambert's tactics....hanging on to one goal for 75 mins a game. I thought they looked half decent when they attacked us after we scored. just an odd club really Edited 25 November, 2014 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 With hindsight I think we should have maintained the structure and shape that has worked so well for us - putting Cork in for Davis and keeping either Long or Mané on the bench. It was almost as though we had too much width today. Mané didn't get much out of (Goatboy's) Hutton but I think the commentators made a good point - sometimes we should leave the wide man to take on the full back in space, rather than close that space up with another overlap. He's a decent enough keeper I'm still not convinced by Forster. I thought that it was too many cooks spoilt the broth. Playing Long as an extra attacker worked against us, it lost us that vital balance. It also prevented a Leicester type substitution. Our balance is the vital ingredient, it was unfortunately a gamble that didn't come off. I thought Dowd was awful and allowed the Villa defenders to push and shove at Pelle all night but penalised him for standing his ground. Goalkeeper's mistake as Aldeweirerld would have cleared it. Goes down to selection really. Similar to the WBA game with the extra midfielder destroying the balance. IMO if he wanted the extra attacker, play two up front in a 4-4-2. The usual system didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 The thing that takes everyone by surprise is the speed of Agbonlahor. Why would anyone be surprised by Agbonlahor's speed? It is his greatest asset and what he is best known for in footballing terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Why would anyone be surprised by Agbonlahor's speed? It is his greatest asset and what he is best known for in footballing terms. Toby seemed to underestimate it, but surely he would have been warned before the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igsey Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 I thought that it was too many cooks spoilt the broth. Playing Long as an extra attacker worked against us, it lost us that vital balance. It also prevented a Leicester type substitution. Our balance is the vital ingredient, it was unfortunately a gamble that didn't come off. I thought Dowd was awful and allowed the Villa defenders to push and shove at Pelle all night but penalised him for standing his ground. Goalkeeper's mistake as Aldeweirerld would have cleared it. Goes down to selection really. Similar to the WBA game with the extra midfielder destroying the balance. IMO if he wanted the extra attacker, play two up front in a 4-4-2. The usual system didn't work. Still, if Koeman wanted to experiment for the big run of games, this was the best game to do it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Villa were never going to score unless we gifted them one. That mistake cost us 2 points. Worst part about it was Forster's positioning, Villa cleared the ball away just outside their penalty box and Forster was inside his 6-yard box.... He should be near the edge of the box for exactly that sort of clearance. Then he can make a decision to go forward to it or drop back towards his goal. Lazy goalkeeping plain and simple. With that said several others had poor performances. Villa defended well, they defended wider than Leicester stopping us from crossing as much, and when we did cross it was under pressure and poor delivery. After they scored they dropped so deep which I think nullifies Mane & Long a lot. Their best asset is hitting the offside trap at pace and they couldn't do that. You look at the goals Long scored vs Leicester; the 1st was a horizontal burst into space between the defence/midfield line, the 2nd was breaking the offside trap. With those 2 nullified our game relies on Bertrand & Clyne to make overlap runs and cross, or Pelle to layoff to someone. Pelle getting double-teamed and tightly marked out of the game and you can see why it's so hard for us to get that 1st goal against teams parking the bus. I have no doubt our attacking players will look 100x better in the next 3 games when they have space to do what they do. That's going to be interesting. The next few games are against sides who are expecting to beat us, so we won't be up against the leicester/villa brick wall. Personally, I wouldn't put money on how we'll fare in those, but got a great feeling. Bring them on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwichsaint Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Gotta feel sorry (?) for all those who bet on a Villa win, the 'happiness tax' someone called it yesterday, unfortunately the draw turned that little plot into a bit of a lose/lose situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 After reading the match thread last night you would think we were bottom rather than 2nd. We are not going to brilliant in every match, nor have we been. No team is. But the secret to success is to pick up points when you are poor - not something we did very often last season. Disappointing last night but it is never easy when teams put so many men behind the ball. I would prefer to play the Mancs and Arsenal any day. Bring them on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Gotta feel sorry (?) for all those who bet on a Villa win, the 'happiness tax' someone called it yesterday, unfortunately the draw turned that little plot into a bit of a lose/lose situation. Don't feel the need to feel sorry for stupid dorks who can't watch a game of football without having the prospect of a financial benefit to offset a defeat. Bookies prey on that sort of stupidity. Should be outlawed in the same way as confidence tricksters preying on old folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Why would anyone be surprised by Agbonlahor's speed? It is his greatest asset and what he is best known for in footballing terms. His speed wouldn't have mattered if Toby and FF had communicated better. We had plenty of time to clear the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Why would anyone be surprised by Agbonlahor's speed? It is his greatest asset and what he is best known for in footballing terms. Probably his only asset if we're honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Ended up being a good point. Villa are poor, but they were very committed. Just one of those nights, I'm sure we will improve against City. We certainly won't be finishing top 4 now. Can you please explain the logic behind this remark, as it eludes me. We are still in second place, but gaining a draw means certainly that we won't finish in the top four? And yet you say that we will improve against City. Will the situation change if the most likely teams to be in the top four at the end of the season all draw their next matches, thus returning the status quo to last night's result for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Still, if Koeman wanted to experiment for the big run of games, this was the best game to do it in. IMO he thought he could overload a poor defence with an extra forward. The defence with three in front of them in fact played well. There is no way IMO he would play that team in the next three games. I think he needs to sometimes be a bit cruder against these packed defences. A plan C could be to get the ball up front quickly from the back and supporting Pelle quickly as a variation rather than playing it around and allowing the opponents time to pack their box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggface Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Lot of ******** on here after a reasonable point away. Nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Lot of ******** on here after a reasonable point away. Nuts. It's what winning 8 out of 11 games does for them I suppose, we can probably afford to lose 6 games and draw another 7 and still have a chance of finishing top 4 (which I'm told is impossible anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Can you please explain the logic behind this remark, as it eludes me. We are still in second place, but gaining a draw means certainly that we won't finish in the top four? And yet you say that we will improve against City. Will the situation change if the most likely teams to be in the top four at the end of the season all draw their next matches, thus returning the status quo to last night's result for us? Hardly seems worth playing the rest of the season now Koeman didn't say so - he's too professional for that - but you could tell in his post match interview, that he knows he's blown it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 We need to get a grip. Some would have had us believe in the summer that the club was finished. To be 2nd at this stage is a brilliant achievement and we are not there by luck. We are a decent team who will drop points at some point. Villa sat back because we are much better than them. Breaking down packed defences is never easy. Not so long ago people were saying how good it was that we have strength in depth, now apparently we don't? Enjoy the ride, we are having a really good season so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 It certainly didn't click in the final third but I wasn't unhappy with our general performance whatsoever. We looked by FAR the better team and kept going. We stuck at it and kept grinding away. I am pleased we dug out a point after what was a bad day at the office - but not one where we left Villa Park with nothing. A few lessons to be learnt for Koeman, but that is in no way a criticism. It's certainly an opportunity missed but not one to beat ourselves up about. Disappointed but not downbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highfield Saint Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Villa showed no ambition at all but simply wanted to contain. One of the Sky pundits said the Villa tactics were what you'd expect to employ away from home in Europe. If that was served up by Saints at St Marys there would be a revolt. A compliment to us I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Villa showed no ambition at all but simply wanted to contain. One of the Sky pundits said the Villa tactics were what you'd expect to employ away from home in Europe. If that was served up by Saints at St Marys there would be a revolt. A compliment to us I think Don't think I've seen any PL team park the bus at home as Villa did last night. No wonder there fans are staying away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 For those watching on BEIN Sport, as well as blaming Forster, Andy Gray put a lot of blame on Alderweireld and Fonte. Forster- well it was obvious what his mistake was, ran out and failed to get to the ball Alderweireld- for having the upper hand and not running to the ball and clearing it, instead running away and hoping Forster had it covered Fonte- now not many people noticed this, but Richard Keys spotted that it was in fact Jose who TOLD Fraser to come out of his goal. but, it's only Andy Gray, so take it with a pinch of salt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 For those watching on BEIN Sport, as well as blaming Forster, Andy Gray put a lot of blame on Alderweireld and Fonte. Forster- well it was obvious what his mistake was, ran out and failed to get to the ball Alderweireld- for having the upper hand and not running to the ball and clearing it, instead running away and hoping Forster had it covered Fonte- now not many people noticed this, but Richard Keys spotted that it was in fact Jose who TOLD Fraser to come out of his goal. but, it's only Andy Gray, so take it with a pinch of salt I thought Fonte had an iffy game generally yesterday, seemed to be made quite edgy by the constant threat of Gabby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingwing Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 For those watching on BEIN Sport, as well as blaming Forster, Andy Gray put a lot of blame on Alderweireld and Fonte. Forster- well it was obvious what his mistake was, ran out and failed to get to the ball Alderweireld- for having the upper hand and not running to the ball and clearing it, instead running away and hoping Forster had it covered Fonte- now not many people noticed this, but Richard Keys spotted that it was in fact Jose who TOLD Fraser to come out of his goal. but, it's only Andy Gray, so take it with a pinch of salt Mate next to me in the pub turned to me and said exactly that just after it went in, frustrating as Fonté has had a great season so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Villa were never going to score unless we gifted them one. That mistake cost us 2 points. Worst part about it was Forster's positioning, Villa cleared the ball away just outside their penalty box and Forster was inside his 6-yard box.... He should be near the edge of the box for exactly that sort of clearance. Then he can make a decision to go forward to it or drop back towards his goal. Lazy goalkeeping plain and simple. With that said several others had poor performances. Villa defended well, they defended wider than Leicester stopping us from crossing as much, and when we did cross it was under pressure and poor delivery. After they scored they dropped so deep which I think nullifies Mane & Long a lot. Their best asset is hitting the offside trap at pace and they couldn't do that. You look at the goals Long scored vs Leicester; the 1st was a horizontal burst into space between the defence/midfield line, the 2nd was breaking the offside trap. With those 2 nullified our game relies on Bertrand & Clyne to make overlap runs and cross, or Pelle to layoff to someone. Pelle getting double-teamed and tightly marked out of the game and you can see why it's so hard for us to get that 1st goal against teams parking the bus. I have no doubt our attacking players will look 100x better in the next 3 games when they have space to do what they do. I can agrea with that analysis. Shows how far we've come when Villa feel they need to park the bus at home tu us, we have 70% possesion, we get a point and the whole forum goes into meltdown how poor we were. Don't think Davis or Cork would really have made a big difference. It would still have been very tight in very limited space with Villa dropping that deep. Not conceiding that fluke goal and it would probably have been a comfortable, but not very pretty, win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Mate next to me in the pub turned to me and said exactly that just after it went in, frustrating as Fonté has had a great season so far. Fonte definately pointed, but playing Devils advocate Id of suggested that Toby would have got there if Forster hadnt have rushed out. He 'avoided' the tackle only because he saw the onrushing keeper IMO, and tried to avoid a mix up, unfortunately it happened anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 I can agrea with that analysis. Shows how far we've come when Villa feel they need to park the bus at home tu us, we have 70% possesion, we get a point and the whole forum goes into meltdown how poor we were. Don't think Davis or Cork would really have made a big difference. It would still have been very tight in very limited space with Villa dropping that deep. Not conceiding that fluke goal and it would probably have been a comfortable, but not very pretty, win. I think that is their general tactic against anyone in the top half of the league...Hence why they had the lowest gate for a league game for over a decade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Villa were never going to score unless we gifted them one. That mistake cost us 2 points. Worst part about it was Forster's positioning, Villa cleared the ball away just outside their penalty box and Forster was inside his 6-yard box.... He should be near the edge of the box for exactly that sort of clearance. Then he can make a decision to go forward to it or drop back towards his goal. Lazy goalkeeping plain and simple. With that said several others had poor performances. Villa defended well, they defended wider than Leicester stopping us from crossing as much, and when we did cross it was under pressure and poor delivery. After they scored they dropped so deep which I think nullifies Mane & Long a lot. Their best asset is hitting the offside trap at pace and they couldn't do that. You look at the goals Long scored vs Leicester; the 1st was a horizontal burst into space between the defence/midfield line, the 2nd was breaking the offside trap. With those 2 nullified our game relies on Bertrand & Clyne to make overlap runs and cross, or Pelle to layoff to someone. Pelle getting double-teamed and tightly marked out of the game and you can see why it's so hard for us to get that 1st goal against teams parking the bus. I have no doubt our attacking players will look 100x better in the next 3 games when they have space to do what they do. Pretty good analysis IMO. Thought we failed to attempt to hit Pellè enough, though a lot of that would likely be that he was being effectively marked out of the game. Id of liked in that case to see him drift wide a bit to pull their defence around. Or try running at them as opposed to hitting long diagonal balls that were being swallowed up by their fullbacks. They had a game plan and it worked, we were poor but still got a point, its not the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 25 November, 2014 Share Posted 25 November, 2014 Another of those occasions where we kept the ball easily but in a far too slow paced unhurried passing game that lacked any sort of penetration threat in the box. More like this and we'll soon be slipping down the league. Should have played Cork from start and used Long as a sub for Mane later on. Nat Clyne was our saviour but many more performances like this and we'll be fending off Bayern and Real Madrid. Let's just hope he loves living down here enough to stay for a couple more years. Best since Bale? Quite possibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svetigpung Posted 26 November, 2014 Share Posted 26 November, 2014 Should have played Cork from start and used Long as a sub for Mane later on. Nat Clyne was our saviour but many more performances like this and we'll be fending off Bayern and Real Madrid. Let's just hope he loves living down here enough to stay for a couple more years. Exactly. Had Cork played in Davis's role so had vi moved the ball around better and made Villa work harder. As it was we played too many long diagonal balls to very little effect that the Villa defence had little problems dealing with. They just kept their defensive shape far too easily. In games like these , you have to move the ball around and make runs all the time. Thats why an extra forward gave us less attacking options against such a villa's bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 26 November, 2014 Share Posted 26 November, 2014 Why would anyone be surprised by Agbonlahor's speed? It is his greatest asset and what he is best known for in footballing terms. Exactly. Can't decide if Toby pulled away because he saw Forster charging out, or if Forster called out.... but Toby was there and should have kicked it out even if they clattered together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 26 November, 2014 Share Posted 26 November, 2014 I also thought Fonte had a fairly poor game by his standards this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 November, 2014 Share Posted 26 November, 2014 Exactly. Can't decide if Toby pulled away because he saw Forster charging out, or if Forster called out.... but Toby was there and should have kicked it out even if they clattered together. Toby seemed to actually run away from the incident. Once he'd seen Forster he could have kept going as cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 26 November, 2014 Share Posted 26 November, 2014 (edited) Toby seemed to actually run away from the incident. Once he'd seen Forster he could have kept going as cover. Which he kind of did, was only a fraction away from clearing the eventual shot off the goal line I think. Mind you Forster was wearing that awful grey kit, perhaps Toby didn't see him at all. Edited 26 November, 2014 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 26 November, 2014 Share Posted 26 November, 2014 Which he kind of did, was only a fraction away from clearing the eventual shot off the goal line I think. Mind you Forster was wearing that awful grey kit, perhaps Toby didn't see him at all. Like it, must have been one of the biggest "shadows" ever, Desperate Dan becoming invisible, more likely to seem like an eclipse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 November, 2014 Share Posted 26 November, 2014 Which he kind of did, was only a fraction away from clearing the eventual shot off the goal line I think. Mind you Forster was wearing that awful grey kit, perhaps Toby didn't see him at all. True, it caused problems for Man Utd too if I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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