Saint Charlie Posted 19 November, 2014 Share Posted 19 November, 2014 For Players, Manager and Staff... 1. Is it a bad thing? 2. Is there any realistic way to go beyond being that type of club? 3. Does it annoy you that people feel they need to leave to progress? 4. Would it help if only the Champions or Runner Up qualified for the CL instead of the top 4? (Obviously for Saints you could also read many other clubs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 19 November, 2014 Share Posted 19 November, 2014 Im not as happy clappy as many on here but christ you're tedious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Bob Posted 19 November, 2014 Share Posted 19 November, 2014 It's all about the money unfortunately. We cannot compete with the bigger clubs due to the financial fair play rules governing wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 19 November, 2014 Author Share Posted 19 November, 2014 Im not as happy clappy as many on here but christ you're tedious Its an interesting debate I think. If it was back in the era where only 1 or 2 English teams qualified for the CL then moving to a club like Spurs would give you no additional chance to get there than from staying here. The whole top four thing gives hope to other clubs but also increases the pool of sharks to take your best players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 19 November, 2014 Share Posted 19 November, 2014 For Players, Manager and Staff... 1. Is it a bad thing? 2. Is there any realistic way to go beyond being that type of club? 3. Does it annoy you that people feel they need to leave to progress? 4. Would it help if only the Champions or Runner Up qualified for the CL instead of the top 4? (Obviously for Saints you could also read many other clubs) 1. Nope, if players are being bought then it tends to mean we're doing something right. 2. Yes, get Man City type investment. 3. No, as we don't play CL ever year, and therefore they don't always get to try themselves out at the highest level. 4. No. Now, some for you: 1. Are you ready to apologise for your embarrassing Summer tirade against the club you purport to support? 2. Are you still bumming Adam Blackmore? 3. Is the fact that we are doing well under a Liebherr/Reed/Krueger triumvirate hurting you deep down? 4. Why don't you just cheer up and enjoy the club doing well? We are not a big club so times like this tend to be few and far apart, and it seems a shame you waste this time by trying to entice reactions from people on a forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 19 November, 2014 Share Posted 19 November, 2014 Is there any realistic way to go beyond being that type of club? I can list on the digits of one hand all the clubs in world football that aren't a "stepping stone club". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 19 November, 2014 Author Share Posted 19 November, 2014 1. Nope, if players are being bought then it tends to mean we're doing something right. 2. Yes, get Man City type investment. 3. No, as we don't play CL ever year, and therefore they don't always get to try themselves out at the highest level. 4. No. Pretty much agree. Although if somehow we did get 4th it woulf be interesting to see the types of player that suddenly thought Saints arent beneath them. The comments from Vlaar's agent last week were interesting, basically he discounted us this summer but would maybe be keen now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 19 November, 2014 Share Posted 19 November, 2014 Pretty much agree. Although if somehow we did get 4th it woulf be interesting to see the types of player that suddenly thought Saints arent beneath them. The comments from Vlaar's agent last week were interesting, basically he discounted us this summer but would maybe be keen now. Can't believe United didn't buy him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 19 November, 2014 Share Posted 19 November, 2014 Pretty much agree. Although if somehow we did get 4th it woulf be interesting to see the types of player that suddenly thought Saints arent beneath them. The comments from Vlaar's agent last week were interesting, basically he discounted us this summer but would maybe be keen now. Tough sh*te Vlaar, the ship has sailed buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant Posted 19 November, 2014 Share Posted 19 November, 2014 The counterpoint to this is that if the players using us as a stepping stone have done enough to impress bigger clubs, they've probably aided in dragging Saints up to the next level. Therefore we're able to step into the market and attract better players than we might have been able to before said 'mercenary' joined us. If (big 'if') we can continue to recruit well, there's got to be a chance of us continuing to ascend the ladder. Though obviously you could say that for any club - and the margin for error gets ever smaller towards the top of the table. In terms of the ambitions of the player that chooses to leave, I guess it comes down to the 'shortcuts' alluded to in that promotional video we put out before the start of the season. You'd hope that future would-be want-aways might consider the trials and tribulation of the Summer 2014 exits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 19 November, 2014 Author Share Posted 19 November, 2014 The counterpoint to this is that if the players using us as a stepping stone have done enough to impress bigger clubs, they've probably aided in dragging Saints up to the next level. Therefore we're able to step into the market and attract better players than we might have been able to before said 'mercenary' joined us. If (big 'if') we can continue to recruit well, there's got to be a chance of us continuing to ascend the ladder. Though obviously you could say that for any club - and the margin for error gets ever smaller towards the top of the table. In terms of the ambitions of the player that chooses to leave, I guess it comes down to the 'shortcuts' alluded to in that promotional video we put out before the start of the season. You'd hope that future would-be want-aways might consider the trials and tribulation of the Summer 2014 exits. Whilst they are a much bigger club, Atletico have done it really well because they managed to keep a team together that was good enough to win the league and even though many left they are able to attract other class players because they have a good reputation, still a strong squad and are a pathway to the very top clubs in Europe if you do well. What we are doing is similar albeit on a lower level but if somehow we could have a season with minimal injury problems and the others continue (Chelsea apart) to self destruct and we were to reach the CL then it would enable the progression to continue because we could then attract players from better teams to join us rather than look to leave in pursuit of the CL. Regarding the shortcuts mentioned in that video, the principle of it makes sense, but in reality, players and Managers think a lot more short term than the club as a whole. Someone like Tadic will be trying his best to get to a high position, but as with last season, as soon as that isn't likely the first thing they do is look around and see if they have impressed enough to take a shortcut via another team. You need the one big season where you "make it" otherwise its very hard to sustain four or five years of solid performance because there is so much churn of staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 19 November, 2014 Share Posted 19 November, 2014 St (?) Charlie, I wish Saints was a stepping stone club for certain (so called and very morose) supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimatt Posted 19 November, 2014 Share Posted 19 November, 2014 The advantage of a stepping stone club is having the ability to bring in untested players with huge potential. The big clubs often can't risk someone that's yet to prove themselves on the big stage. Tadic is a perfect example. Apparently scouted by everyone and linked with top clubs years ago but no one was prepared to take a punt with him. The same applies for youth players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 19 November, 2014 Share Posted 19 November, 2014 I can list on the digits of one hand all the clubs in world football that aren't a "stepping stone club". ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! Aside from the " Big Six " ( I won't say the " top Six " because some of them aren't up there yet this season,)........but in every " small club " ...there are one or two " big fish ". Sometimes they stay with the club, (MLT did with us) ..but more often they must be sold on the one of the Big Six in order for the small club to buy new, or worse to cover their salary bill. Inevitably, big clubs can afford NOT to play these people on a regular basis, or leave them on their bench....but in effect they rob the smaller clubs of their talent, thereby keeping them down-in their place. The " Euro rules " governing clubs' economy seems to be based - not so much on investment - but on the limitations of the club's income. Therefore ....without filling a 50,000 stadium (which we don't have) every game, we'd need to sell £100 million worth of players every season - to create the same sort of income. Even if we qualify for CL....and do well (not necessarily win) we won't create enough " big income " to balance the books - if we want to match the £100K salaries that the Big Six regularly pay players. Unless a Saints' player REALLY loves SMS, he must ask himself -if a big club makes a bid - would he swap his 40k salary (with Saints) ..for 100K /week with a " bigger club ". Surely a no-brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 19 November, 2014 Share Posted 19 November, 2014 ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! Aside from the " Big Six " ( I won't say the " top Six " because some of them aren't up there yet this season,)........but in every " small club " ...there are one or two " big fish ". Sometimes they stay with the club, (MLT did with us) ..but more often they must be sold on the one of the Big Six in order for the small club to buy new, or worse to cover their salary bill. Inevitably, big clubs can afford NOT to play these people on a regular basis, or leave them on their bench....but in effect they rob the smaller clubs of their talent, thereby keeping them down-in their place. The " Euro rules " governing clubs' economy seems to be based - not so much on investment - but on the limitations of the club's income. Therefore ....without filling a 50,000 stadium (which we don't have) every game, we'd need to sell £100 million worth of players every season - to create the same sort of income. Even if we qualify for CL....and do well (not necessarily win) we won't create enough " big income " to balance the books - if we want to match the £100K salaries that the Big Six regularly pay players. Unless a Saints' player REALLY loves SMS, he must ask himself -if a big club makes a bid - would he swap his 40k salary (with Saints) ..for 100K /week with a " bigger club ". Surely a no-brainer. Even the big six aren't immune to players leaving for something better (IE Barca and Real) I think only Chelsea and Man city can discount being a stepping stone club in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 19 November, 2014 Share Posted 19 November, 2014 Even the big six aren't immune to players leaving for something better (IE Barca and Real) I think only Chelsea and Man city can discount being a stepping stone club in England. good point ! although - not to their credit - they seem to discard their youth players so easily - even the better ones who go onto other clubs. Cork and Sturridge are first that come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 19 November, 2014 Share Posted 19 November, 2014 Maybe Chelsea & Man City might not but in reality they are behind Barca/Real and probably Bayern as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 19 November, 2014 Author Share Posted 19 November, 2014 Maybe Chelsea & Man City might not but in reality they are behind Barca/Real and probably Bayern as well. Even City will probably struggle to keep Aguero once Real or Barca properly go for him. But I think there is a difference between those types of moves and a player viewing a club as a good platform to get a bigger move. Although as many have said, it is great in loys of ways because it shows the players you have are quality. Its just a shame at times like watching England when you think what might have been. Imagine if we had Tadic, Pelle, Lallana and Lambert how good we could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 19 November, 2014 Share Posted 19 November, 2014 Even City will probably struggle to keep Aguero once Real or Barca properly go for him. But I think there is a difference between those types of moves and a player viewing a club as a good platform to get a bigger move. Although as many have said, it is great in loys of ways because it shows the players you have are quality. Its just a shame at times like watching England when you think what might have been. Imagine if we had Tadic, Pelle, Lallana and Lambert how good we could be. I would say Mane gives us a better option than Lallana as we needed pace, and Lambert wouldn't play hardly at all this season anyway, so I don't see it as much of an upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted 19 November, 2014 Share Posted 19 November, 2014 Imagine if we had Tadic, Pelle, Lallana and Lambert how good we could be. ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 20 November, 2014 Share Posted 20 November, 2014 . Imagine if we had Tadic, Pelle, Lallana and Lambert how good we could be. ....sounds like a dream scenario......but what would your team sheet look like?...... and who would you drop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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