Sainsburys xmas ad

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I find this advert to be overly sentimental and manipulative. What is more, if it led to the uninformed believing that the incident depicted represented anything more than a brief interlude in what was a terrible war then I suppose it could even be seen as being dangerous. To call it a 'lie' however is perhaps too strong a response - we should remember that war, for all its awful destruction and waste, brings out both the worse and the best in Humanity.

 

A century has passed since the start of that conflict and there are no veterans left to bare witness to it. But despite that great gulf in time I hope that our young do actually know enough of the Great War by now to mean that these concerns are misplaced and they can see the ad for what it is. You might even say that anything that reminds us of that war, and the sheer scale of the sacrifice this nation made back then, is actually a good thing.

Edited 18 November, 2014 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[CB Fry]

Ban this filth.

 

[whelk]

Ban this filth.

 

 

Trivialising bouncing bombs. Surely instead of making the advert the brewery could have just built a hospital or at least fed some starving children.

[Bearsy]

i reckon the reality was more like this. Take that kraut!

 

[Minty]

Trivialising bouncing bombs. Surely instead of making the advert the brewery could have just built a hospital or at least fed some starving children.

 

Why take this angle? You took issue with my reply to SOG and felt it was naive, but instead of discussing it, you prefer to mock it in this post above?

 

There are clearly a range of different views on here and I'm more than happy to consider those which differ to mine as I've shown. So why take that approach?

[whelk]

Actually agree with you and not SOG. Have said what I think and tbh I find it amusing and surprising that some people don't seem to have a clue as to how companies behave and seemingly no idea how marketing works.

Been some well made points on here but sorry SOG emotional views of how dare they, anti war, exploitation, Aushwitz next is naive. I haven't re-read anything so might not all be him but what I recall.

Although I shop wherever, their arty flipping advert won't change me attitude is equally comical.

[CB Fry]

Actually agree with you and not SOG. Have said what I think and tbh I find it amusing and surprising that some people don't seem to have a clue as to how companies behave and seemingly no idea how marketing works.

Been some well made points on here but sorry SOG emotional views of how dare they, anti war, exploitation, Aushwitz next is naive. I haven't re-read anything so might not all be him but what I recall.

Although I shop wherever, their arty flipping advert won't change me attitude is equally comical.

SOG's contributions bear re-reading. Pure comedy gold complaining that a two minute supermarket advertisement doesn't go into significant detail about the slaughter and suffering of the full four years of the first world war. Basically if the ad had shown soldiers climbing out of the trenches and being shot, that would have been better.

 

I don't particularly like the ad, but mainly because I think strategically they have made an poor call. This is a gigantic Christmas for the big four supermarkets, and instead of talking about their own point of difference or what they are really about versus Aldi/Lidl, Sainsbury's have decided to do a John Lewis vanity ad. Not sure it is going to pay off for them.

 

The complaints are just pointless noise. Corporation uses heartwarming historical event to sell stuff shocker.

[Verbal]

It makes it okay because it says forget all of the horrors of the Great War, we can feel safe in our nice warm homes because human beings are basically good and in the right circumstances will do something humane and kind (with a bit of help from Sainsburys)under certain conditions. In fact those two soldiers were trying to kill each other the day before and continued to do so the day after. As I said earlier, many soldiers were shot when they climbed out of the trenches and tried to fraternise with the "enemy" but we didn't see that because the situation had been sanitised for our Christmas consumption. It is selling a lie by compressing a nightmare that lasted 4 years into something decent that lasted a few hours..

 

How do you get the message from that commercial that we can ‘all forget the horrors of the Great War’? Nothing in it says anything of the sort.

 

Is anyone but the most hopelessly naïve under the impression that the Christmas football match was anything other than a brief respite? If so, where are these gullible people? Or are they figments of your imagination?

 

Does the commercial really suggest anything other than that war was hell before and after? Is it really propagating some alternate version of the war in which everyone sat down and enjoyed themselves for four whole years? That’s what all those grim trenches and the rendition of no-man’s land were all about? Was the war fought in the trenches between bad people rather than good?

 

You have to believe all that to conclude that the commercial is therefore a ‘lie’. It’s not ‘the truth’ either – in that it compressed several incidents over the early years of the war into one. But, Jesus H Christ, do you have to believe an awful lot of nonsense to reach the conclusion that it was some kind of Orwellian ‘lie’ in which war is peace and peace is war, and which droves of (imaginary) Brits are in danger of accepting as historical ‘fact’. Because that's how they learn our history - watching TV ads.

 

It’s not a great commercial – the bouncing bomb one (which also attracted exactly the same sad-eyed moaning) was much better. But with all this hand- wringing anyone would think we’d witnessed the second coming of Goebbels – all over what is basically an unremarkable but quite well produced ad.

[View From The Top]

FFS it's a feel good Xmas advert, nowt more. Some of you fucckwits need to get a grip.

[trousers]

Is that the lullaby you sing yourself when considering the lack of democratic accountability post-privatisation?

 

Oh, but we've got those regulators! They're really helping. No-one has any issues with their energy bills or suchlike

How much extra money do you voluntarily give to the Exchequer every month pap?

 

(Warning: I haven't thought this one through so I've no idea where I'm heading with this one, so humour me for a while longer)

[hutch]

Crap advertising will win hands down for me every time.

 

I prefer to shop where the queues are shortest.

[pap]

How much extra money do you voluntarily give to the Exchequer every month pap?

 

(Warning: I haven't thought this one through so I've no idea where I'm heading with this one, so humour me for a while longer)

 

I'm miffed about much of the money I give to the exchequer, largely because it's going to line the pockets of those who don't need it.

 

More interesting question. How much money do I give away to make up for the government's indifference?

[trousers]

I'm miffed about much of the money I give to the exchequer, largely because it's going to line the pockets of those who don't need it.

 

More interesting question. How much money do I give away to make up for the government's indifference?

Yep, that's a better question. The less tax I pay the more I give to 'good causes'. I'm still convinced that's a better wealth distribution model: small state, big society

[pap]

Yep, that's a better question. The less tax I pay the more I give to 'good causes'. I'm still convinced that's a better wealth distribution model: small state, big society

Yeah, and the less government helps my people out, the more I have to find, the more I have to work and the more I get taxed.

 

Thing is, I lose my job and everything is fscked. The model is only as good as the foundations it sits on.

[Halo Stickman]

It appears there are two Schools of Thought (SoT) as to how this ad came about:

 

SoT 1

 

Mr Sainsbury’s: We want to do something that reflects an event that is happening this year.

Ad Man: How about the centenary commemoration of WWI?

Mr Sainsbury’s: That’s all killing, killing and more killing. How can that be suitable?

Ad Man: There was a brief interlude exactly 100 years ago this Christmas when the ordinary soldiers from opposing sides defied orders, laid down their arms and came together in an act of brotherly love and compassion towards their fellow man.

Mr Sainsbury’s: Okay, let’s run with that.

 

SoT 2

 

Mr Sainsbury’s: We want to do something that sends the Christmas message that Sainsbury’s chocolate makes war okay.

Ad Man: Really?

Mr Sainsbury’s: Yes, but we want to show this ad before the watershed; therefore, unfortunately, no corpses, dismembered bodies or flying entrails.

Ad Man: I guess that just leaves Christmas 1914, when the murderous bastards reluctantly interrupted their gleeful slaughtering just long enough to play a stupid game of football.

Mr Sainsbury’s: Okay, let’s run with that.

[trousers]

It appears there are two Schools of Thought (SoT) as to how this ad came about:

 

SoT 1

 

Mr Sainsbury’s: We want to do something that reflects an event that is happening this year.

Ad Man: How about the centenary commemoration of WWI?

Mr Sainsbury’s: That’s all killing, killing and more killing. How can that be suitable?

Ad Man: There was a brief interlude exactly 100 years ago this Christmas when the ordinary soldiers from opposing sides defied orders, laid down their arms and came together in an act of brotherly love and compassion towards their fellow man.

Mr Sainsbury’s: Okay, let’s run with that.

 

SoT 2

 

Mr Sainsbury’s: We want to do something that sends the Christmas message that Sainsbury’s chocolate makes war okay.

Ad Man: Really?

Mr Sainsbury’s: Yes, but we want to show this ad before the watershed; therefore, unfortunately, no corpses, dismembered bodies or flying entrails.

Ad Man: I guess that just leaves Christmas 1914, when the murderous bastards reluctantly interrupted their gleeful slaughtering just long enough to play a stupid game of football.

Mr Sainsbury’s: Okay, let’s run with that.

 

Or....

 

SoT 3

 

The Royal British Legion approach Sainsbury's (who they've collaborated with for 20 years) with a fund raising idea.....

[miserableoldgit]

Or....

 

SoT 3

 

The Royal British Legion approach Sainsbury's (who they've collaborated with for 20 years) with a fund raising idea.....

Don`t be silly...

[sadoldgit]

I did not say it would be "better" if they showed the soldiers who climbed out of the trenches on Christmas Day being shot, I said it would be more honest. The criticisms of the ad that I have read are about the way it has sanitised the event. The coverage of the Great War in this centinary year has been remarkable and the poppy display at the Tower amazing in its simplicity and emotional impact. I am not morally outraged by this ad but a number of people have been I do think it is a shame that the year ends with this controversy. We are all entitled to feel the way we do about the ad. From the first time I saw it I thought it was well made but distasteful and I still feel the same way.

[sadoldgit]

Trivialising bouncing bombs. Surely instead of making the advert the brewery could have just built a hospital or at least fed some starving children.

 

You say that as if it would have been a bad thing. Why not?

[sadoldgit]

How do you get the message from that commercial that we can ‘all forget the horrors of the Great War’? Nothing in it says anything of the sort.

 

Is anyone but the most hopelessly naïve under the impression that the Christmas football match was anything other than a brief respite? If so, where are these gullible people? Or are they figments of your imagination?

 

Does the commercial really suggest anything other than that war was hell before and after? Is it really propagating some alternate version of the war in which everyone sat down and enjoyed themselves for four whole years? That’s what all those grim trenches and the rendition of no-man’s land were all about? Was the war fought in the trenches between bad people rather than good?

 

You have to believe all that to conclude that the commercial is therefore a ‘lie’. It’s not ‘the truth’ either – in that it compressed several incidents over the early years of the war into one. But, Jesus H Christ, do you have to believe an awful lot of nonsense to reach the conclusion that it was some kind of Orwellian ‘lie’ in which war is peace and peace is war, and which droves of (imaginary) Brits are in danger of accepting as historical ‘fact’. Because that's how they learn our history - watching TV ads.

 

It’s not a great commercial – the bouncing bomb one (which also attracted exactly the same sad-eyed moaning) was much better. But with all this hand- wringing anyone would think we’d witnessed the second coming of Goebbels – all over what is basically an unremarkable but quite well produced ad.

 

I get that message because it is all very clean and tidy. No blood, no guts. no piles of sh*t. Nice young men shaking hands and being nice to each other and having a nice game of football. And then one gets a bar of chocolate. Nice. All given to you by those nice people at Sainsburys. I say it is a "lie" because all advertising is about bending the truth. Lets take the multi million pound campaigns for cigarettes for example. Smoking made you look cool - nothing about killing you. If you use Lynx deodorant you have dozens of beautiful women throw themselves at you. Use our product and your life will be better. Shop at Sainsburys because our advertising agency have seen a way to take the interest in the WW1 centenary this year and make an ad for Christmas out of it.

 

Of course people understand that it was a brief respite and I am not suggesting otherwise but there is an awful lot more going on here. A small event is being taken out of context and used to try and persuade us to buy our Christmas goodies from a particular supermarket chain. There are other issues here too that the Dolan article covers particularly well. Have you read it?

Edited 19 November, 2014 by sadoldgit

[sadoldgit]

SOG's contributions bear re-reading. Pure comedy gold complaining that a two minute supermarket advertisement doesn't go into significant detail about the slaughter and suffering of the full four years of the first world war. Basically if the ad had shown soldiers climbing out of the trenches and being shot, that would have been better.

 

I don't particularly like the ad, but mainly because I think strategically they have made an poor call. This is a gigantic Christmas for the big four supermarkets, and instead of talking about their own point of difference or what they are really about versus Aldi/Lidl, Sainsbury's have decided to do a John Lewis vanity ad. Not sure it is going to pay off for them.

 

The complaints are just pointless noise. Corporation uses heartwarming historical event to sell stuff shocker.

 

Once again Mr Fry you take a small part of an argument, misinterpret it and then pour scorn on it. Also to say that complaints are just pointless noise is incredibly arrogant. People are entitled to express their opinions whether you agree with them or not. It clearly is an emotive subject and the fact that some people have taken the trouble to complain should not dismissed so casually by one of you usual self satisfied put downs.

[sadoldgit]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/13/sainsburys-christmas-ad-first-world-war

 

Here is the article in The Guardian which I thought was worth reading (especially the replies below). Sorry that I couldn't cut and paste.

[pap]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/13/sainsburys-christmas-ad-first-world-war

 

Here is the article in The Guardian which I thought was worth reading (especially the replies below). Sorry that I couldn't cut and paste.

 

Quite liked this bit from the main article.

 

Nowhere in the new advert do we see the blood and entrails, the vomit and faeces, the rats feasting on body parts. The response might be “well they can hardly put that in a Christmas advert can they?” and that would be entirely true. Which is why the scene is entirely inappropriate for a Christmas advert in the first place.

[aintforever]

It sums up my feelings on it:

 

What passing-bells for these who die as cattle? Not only the monstrous anger of the guns nor the stuttering rifles’ rapid rattle, but now an epic four-minute, eye-wateringly expensive commercial for a supermarket chain.

 

There is no disputing that the new Sainsbury’s ad is, on its own terms, a masterpiece. The cinematography is breathtaking. Without saying a word, the young cast conveys a startling array of emotional depth within a few short minutes. The simple narrative, built around the near-mythical Christmas truce between the trenches of 1914, has just the right blend of poignancy and sentimentality to bring a tear to the most cynical eye.

 

So why does the advert leave me feeling so unsettled, so uncomfortable, even a touch nauseous? The first answer has to be that for all the respectful tone, the centennial occasion and the endorsement of the Royal British Legion, the ultimate objective here is to persuade us to buy our tinsel, our crackers and our sprouts from one particular supermarket. Perhaps the greatest truism, even cliche about the first world war is that nobody ever really understood why it happened, what it was all about. Those in the trenches never understood what they were giving their lives for, beyond a vague commitment to king and country, and a hundred years later most of us still don’t really understand. The sheer futility of the slaughter is what made the truce possible and also what makes the recounting of the tale so heartwarming and heartbreaking to this day. That vacuum of sense provides all the more reason for caution when co-opting the events for a purpose as crass as flogging groceries.

 

Of course many film-makers, writers and other artists have made good money from representing the horrors of war. Some do so with respect and artistry, some exploit shamelessly. But there is a key difference, I would suggest, between selling representations of war as a product, and using representations of war as a means to another end. Somewhere close to 40 million young men were killed, lost or mutilated in the first world war. Sainsbury’s has all but dressed them in a sandwich board. Donating profits to the Royal British Legion from the sale of the special chocolate bar that appears in the advert doesn’t change that.

 

In helping to launch the ad today, the legion’s head of fundraising praised the film’s historical accuracy and attention to detail. How true can this be? While there were certainly varying conditions on the frontline from place to place and year to year, reading contemporary accounts from either side of the trenches, in the poetry of Owen and Sassoon or the prose of Remarque, the details that stick in the mind are horrific. Nowhere in the new advert do we see the blood and entrails, the vomit and faeces, the rats feasting on body parts. The response might be “well they can hardly put that in a Christmas advert can they?” and that would be entirely true. Which is why the scene is entirely inappropriate for a Christmas advert in the first place.

 

The trench warfare of 1914-18 sits near the top of the list of horrors that humanity has inflicted upon ourselves and each other. Although it has recently slipped out of the range of living memory, it remains an iconic scar. Like the Nazi Holocaust or the dropping of atomic bombs on Japan, it lives on as a vivid phantom in our culture, a constant reminder of our capacity to inflict incomprehensible degrees of violence and suffering upon innocent individuals. It surely behoves us as a society to retain those deaths with respect and a degree of reverence. Would we welcome an advert next Christmas showing a touching little scene between a Jewish child and a disabled child in Auschwitz, swapping gifts for Christmas and Hanukah on their way to the gas chambers? I would hope not, yet I fail to see any great moral difference.

 

Exploiting the first world war for commercial gain is tasteless. This, however, is not what disturbs me most. The really upsetting details are the stunning shot of the robin on the wire, the actors’ trembles as they cautiously emerge from the trenches, half expecting a sniper’s bullet, the flicker of understanding in the eyes as the young soldiers reach into their pockets at the end. The film-makers here have done something to the first world war which is perhaps the most dangerous and disrespectful act of all: they have made it beautiful.

[Batman]

there are some right dull, guardian reading, yoghurt-knitting sandal wearers on this thread

 

it's an advert.

Most adverts are full of shyt

[sadoldgit]

Quite liked this bit from the main article.

 

Which is why I said earlier that the ad is a "lie."

[sadoldgit]

there are some right dull, guardian reading, yoghurt-knitting sandal wearers on this thread

 

it's an advert.

Most adverts are full of shyt

 

You are completely missing the point.

[Batman]

You are completely missing the point.

 

it's an advert. they are all full of shyt

unless of course, I click go-compare and a fat bastard will stand outside my house trying to sing an annoying song

but isnt that advert 'fattist' ?

 

it is an advert. the fact the RBL completely and utterly endorse it and said company raises millions of £££ for the very people (their families) you say they misrepresent is a bonus

[Patrick Bateman]

Who actually watches adverts anyway?

I watch on catch up or what's been recorded and fast forward the ad breaks. If I'm watching something like a sporting event, ad breaks are when I grab a beer, go for a wee, read an email - usually with the TV muted.

[trousers]

Doesn't there come a point in any 'debate' where everyone agrees to differ rather than keep going over the same 'for and against' arguments time and time again?

 

I'm happy with the ad. The Royal British Legion are happy with the ad. Some people aren't happy with it. I'm not sure what more there is to add?

 

(yes, I know....I'm aware that forums such as this thrive on repetitive arguments)

 

[Halo Stickman]

there are some right dull, guardian reading, yoghurt-knitting sandal wearers on this thread

 

it's an advert.

Most adverts are full of shyt

 

Yeah, but not enough for the Guardian jouro, apparently.

 

Not enough sh1t, not enough p1ss, not enough blood, not enough vomit, not enough entrails. Bloody hell, the essence of the 1914 Christmas Truce is its symbolism. What next, sh1t, p1ss, blood, vomit, entrails to be depicted on all crucifixes?

[pap]

Yeah, but not enough for the Guardian jouro, apparently.

 

Not enough sh1t, not enough p1ss, not enough blood, not enough vomit, not enough entrails. Bloody hell, the essence of the 1914 Christmas Truce is its symbolism. What next, sh1t, p1ss, blood, vomit, entrails to be depicted on all crucifixes?

 

I often wonder about the ol' crucifix, especially since the Old Testament God strictly forbade carving idols, etc.

[pap]

there are some right dull, guardian reading, yoghurt-knitting sandal wearers on this thread

 

it's an advert.

Most adverts are full of shyt

 

You know the only thing worse than dull, Guardian sandal wearers moaning about the commercial use of the war dead?

 

The sort of fúcktard that starts a thread on an advert, then says adverts aren't really worth discussing.

[sadoldgit]

Doesn't there come a point in any 'debate' where everyone agrees to differ rather than keep going over the same 'for and against' arguments time and time again?

 

I'm happy with the ad. The Royal British Legion are happy with the ad. Some people aren't happy with it. I'm not sure what more there is to add?

 

(yes, I know....I'm aware that forums such as this thrive on repetitive arguments)

 

 

Not here, we do love to flog a dead horse (perhaps there is a supermarket ad in there somewhere? )

[sadoldgit]

great advert

but people have complained to the Standards Authority about using 'war' to promote their sales

 

Now you have read some of the arguments against the ad, can you at least see the other point of view Batman?

[CB Fry]

Once again Mr Fry you take a small part of an argument, misinterpret it and then pour scorn on it. Also to say that complaints are just pointless noise is incredibly arrogant. People are entitled to express their opinions whether you agree with them or not. It clearly is an emotive subject and the fact that some people have taken the trouble to complain should not dismissed so casually by one of you usual self satisfied put downs.

 

I haven't poured scorn on a small part of your argument.

 

I've poured scorn on all of it.

[whelk]

You say that as if it would have been a bad thing. Why not?

 

As I said before. Naive.

[whelk]

I haven't poured scorn on a small part of your argument.

 

I've poured scorn on all of it.

 

Hey Pap I chuckled at this reply. Did you?

[Plastic]

Still not watched the advert, apparently it features a chocolate bar, and sainsburys are giving all profits from said chocolate bar to the British legion. Are we still outraged by this?

 

Edit/ just read the thread, see it has gone beyond this discussion. Oh well

Edited 19 November, 2014 by Plastic

[whelk]

Still not watched the advert, apparently it features a chocolate bar, and sainsburys are giving all profits from said chocolate bar to the British legion. Are we still outraged by this?

 

Edit/ just read the thread, see it has gone beyond this discussion. Oh well

 

Fill ya boots

[Plastic]

Fill ya boots

 

Thanks for that, since it was placed in front of me, I watched it.

I thought it was quite nicely realised, although to some extent I do feel it's not an appropriate subject for an Xmas advert as someone else mentioned. And for me the tag line of 'Christmas is for sharing' cheapened the whole experience.

[pap]

Hey Pap I chuckled at this reply. Did you?

 

I was too busy marvelling at your dedication. He posts, and you post immediately afterwards.

 

Love your posts man. Such deference.

[whelk]

I was too busy marvelling at your dedication. He posts, and you post immediately afterwards.

 

Love your posts man. Such deference.

 

It's the only thread I am active on. That's international breaks for you

[whelk]

I was too busy marvelling at your dedication. He posts, and you post immediately afterwards.

 

Love your posts man. Such deference.

 

And would have thought a man of your calibre would have been able to marvel and chuckle at the same time. So disappointed. You will never be my hero

[pap]

It's the only thread I am active on. That's international breaks for you

 

What are you getting master for Christmas? Another sock?

[sadoldgit]

I haven't poured scorn on a small part of your argument.

 

I've poured scorn on all of it.

 

You really are a very sad little man aren't you? You seem to get off on trying to be a smart ar*e when in fact you just come across as someone who doesn't have a life and gets off on taking the p*ss. Trouble is you are the one left looking stupid bless you. I bet you are a riot at parties. Carry on and pour your scorn buddy. At least it keeps you off of the streets.

[sadoldgit]

it's an advert. they are all full of shyt

unless of course, I click go-compare and a fat bastard will stand outside my house trying to sing an annoying song

but isnt that advert 'fattist' ?

 

it is an advert. the fact the RBL completely and utterly endorse it and said company raises millions of £££ for the very people (their families) you say they misrepresent is a bonus

 

Sorry I don't really get your fattist point Batman. What has an opera singer got to do with anything? Did people complain because the guy is overweight???

[CB Fry]

You really are a very sad little man aren't you? You seem to get off on trying to be a smart ar*e when in fact you just come across as someone who doesn't have a life and gets off on taking the p*ss. Trouble is you are the one left looking stupid bless you. I bet you are a riot at parties. Carry on and pour your scorn buddy. At least it keeps you off of the streets.

Taking the pi ss out of you making out that the British public will now think everyone had a lovely time during the First World War because of one two minute advertisement is the only enjoyment I get in my miserable bed-sit bound lonely life.

[sadoldgit]

Taking the pi ss out of you making out that the British public will now think everyone had a lovely time during the First World War because of one two minute advertisement is the only enjoyment I get in my miserable bed-sit bound lonely life.

 

Once you again you managed to ignore the point in order to take a cheap shot.

[pap]

Taking the pi ss out of you making out that the British public will now think everyone had a lovely time during the First World War because of one two minute advertisement is the only enjoyment I get in my miserable bed-sit bound lonely life.

 

Is this your only "skill"?

 

Arf!