Sainsburys xmas ad

[Wade Garrett]

I liked the Woolworths Christmas advert from 1981.

 

'Have a cracking Christmas,

At Woolworths,

A cracker of a Christmas shopping spree,

Christmas Woolworths,

Is it any wonder,

Christmas Woolworths,

Is the place to be'

 

F*cking genius you miserable c*nts.

Edited 17 November, 2014 by Wade Garrett

[pap]

Yo must be an asolute hoot t Dinner Parties.....

 

Yes I am, as it goes*.

 

* unless you want to talk about EastEnders or some sh!t.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Yes I am, as it goes*.

 

* unless you want to talk about EastEnders or some sh!t.

 

I wouldn't want to go to a dinner party with you!

[pap]

I wouldn't want to go to a dinner party with you!

The Christmas episodes are alright, but it is not worth revolving your life around EastEnders, mush.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

The Christmas episodes are alright, but it is not worth revolving your life around EastEnders, mush.

 

I went through a short spell of watching to mock Danny Dyer, then realised he was weirdly likable in it so watched it for him. Havn't watched in ages though.

 

 

My life is a big empty void now.

Edited 17 November, 2014 by KelvinsRightGlove

[Halo Stickman]

 

Merry Christmas and a Crappy New Year

[pap]

I like this quote, reputed to be from Banksy.

 

People are taking the píss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you’re not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you.

 

 

You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they like with total impunity.

Fúck that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. It’s yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head.

 

 

You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don’t owe them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don’t even start asking for theirs.

 

 

So, er, yeah. All that, plus Sainsburys ad in particular is using our war dead to advertise a supermarket.

 

It's what they died for.

[whelk]

People still getting all sanctimonious over the war dead and the big nasty company. If I thought people were genuinely upset I would respect their views.

FFS people stop taking it so seriously

[LVSaint]

Beautiful advert. Tacky? Absolutely. But it's an advert, afterall.

[sadoldgit]

People still getting all sanctimonious over the war dead and the big nasty company. If I thought people were genuinely upset I would respect their views.

FFS people stop taking it so seriously

 

Yep you are right. While we are about it, why not an ad for British Gas shot from Auschwitz? Personally I don't think that war should be used to sell goods at Christmas but I guess I am just an old fashioned dude.

[pap]

Yep you are right. While we are about it, why not an ad for British Gas shot from Auschwitz? Personally I don't think that war should be used to sell goods at Christmas but I guess I am just an old fashioned dude.

 

My great grandfather was a Desert Rat. He was alive at the end of the war, but he never really got over it. At the end of the day, war is about mostly poor men going off to settle the arguments of various landed establishments. The scale of human devastation, both at home and abroad, is so large that I personally find it difficult to imagine. The regimes and countries established after both wars wreaked tremendous havoc on those that were stuck inside them, or had to flee them. War is not something to be celebrated, encouraged or venerated. I will always honour those that lost their lives and those that have had to live on afterwards, but I'll always question who put them there, why, and whether its appropriate for corporate supermarkets to use their sacrifice to boost sales at Christmas.

[whelk]

Many of us will have ancestors who lost their lives. This advert does not glorify war or cheapen the memories. Comparing to Auschwitz is embarrassing.

[Special K]

Seems to me that it's not using "The War", (whatever part of "the war" you lot are referring too is not clear) to sell it's brand name (note, no products appear in the advert), more like portraying the decency of humanity when they don't want to fight - almost an anti war message in itself - which then leads on to a rather clumsy tagline about sharing. It's made in association with the RBL, who presumably gave it their blessing, so can't see the problem with it myself.

[buctootim]

I liked it. It doesn't glorify the war or promote thoughtless herd mentality - if anything it promotes people throwing off the conventional order to make their own choices.

 

Supermarkets generally promote the race to the bottom, but within that Waitrose and Sainsbury's are two of the better guys.

[Batman]

I prefer the prawn rings in the iceland add.

 

promotes death to sea creatures

[CB Fry]

Yep you are right. While we are about it, why not an ad for British Gas shot from Auschwitz? .

 

By some distance the funniest thing you have ever posted on this forum.

[sadoldgit]

By some distance the funniest thing you have ever posted on this forum.

 

Coming from you Mr Fry I take that as a huge compliment!

[sadoldgit]

I prefer the prawn rings in the iceland add.

 

promotes death to sea creatures

 

And probably no let up on Christmas Day for the poor little critters!!!

[Minty]

I think the ad is pretty good in terms of its concept and message - I'm sure most people would agree with that, and it's only the fact that 'Sainsburys' flashes up at the end that is causing the issue. Fair enough perhaps. However, consider this: MOST charity events that take place in the world today have significant, if not total corporate sponsorship. Companies enhancing their brand by paying money to have their logo associated with an event, or who promote a specific product for a portion of sales or profits go to a charity or organisation. Just like Sainsburys are doing here. This one gets more publicity because its a christmas tv ad, and apparently christmas tv ads are more newsworthy than all others, thanks to the likes of Coca Cola and John Lewis...

 

Perhaps another reason some people are not happy about it is because this is the exception, not the rule. If companies did more work to support charities and good causes, then maybe the response would be 'Ah, here is Sainsburys next charity support, good for them'. If more companies did this kind of thing, it would be a really positive move.

 

I'm no fan of the corporate machine, or of gaining traction out of other events, but then again I wish there was MORE of this kind of thing.

[pap]

I liked it. It doesn't glorify the war or promote thoughtless herd mentality - if anything it promotes people throwing off the conventional order to make their own choices.

 

Supermarkets generally promote the race to the bottom, but within that Waitrose and Sainsbury's are two of the better guys.

 

The problem is context. I agree that the football match on Christmas Day 1914 is one of humanity's better moments. However, for your point about throwing the conventional order off to work, you have to know about the conventional order, which was wholesale slaughter of (mostly) the poor either side of that event. You need the brutality for the humanity to work, otherwise we'd be holding up every single Premier League game as humanity's most poignant moment.

 

Consequently, the ad cannot be separated from the context of war, yet at the same time, never has time to provide the context it needs.

[aintforever]

I think the ad is pretty good in terms of its concept and message - I'm sure most people would agree with that, and it's only the fact that 'Sainsburys' flashes up at the end that is causing the issue. Fair enough perhaps. However, consider this: MOST charity events that take place in the world today have significant, if not total corporate sponsorship. Companies enhancing their brand by paying money to have their logo associated with an event, or who promote a specific product for a portion of sales or profits go to a charity or organisation. Just like Sainsburys are doing here. This one gets more publicity because its a christmas tv ad, and apparently christmas tv ads are more newsworthy than all others, thanks to the likes of Coca Cola and John Lewis...

 

Perhaps another reason some people are not happy about it is because this is the exception, not the rule. If companies did more work to support charities and good causes, then maybe the response would be 'Ah, here is Sainsburys next charity support, good for them'. If more companies did this kind of thing, it would be a really positive move.

 

I'm no fan of the corporate machine, or of gaining traction out of other events, but then again I wish there was MORE of this kind of thing.

 

You are probably on to something there, there definitely needs to be more war tie-ins in advertising.

 

The holocaust must have potential to make some cash if you follow the same formular:

 

Tug the heart strings - charity tie-in - product placement - token donation. Some company should be able to make a killing. Charity gets some money, everyone wins.

 

Can't wait til next year.

[pap]

That's the spirit of Christmas.

[sadoldgit]

I think the ad is pretty good in terms of its concept and message - I'm sure most people would agree with that, and it's only the fact that 'Sainsburys' flashes up at the end that is causing the issue. Fair enough perhaps. However, consider this: MOST charity events that take place in the world today have significant, if not total corporate sponsorship. Companies enhancing their brand by paying money to have their logo associated with an event, or who promote a specific product for a portion of sales or profits go to a charity or organisation. Just like Sainsburys are doing here. This one gets more publicity because its a christmas tv ad, and apparently christmas tv ads are more newsworthy than all others, thanks to the likes of Coca Cola and John Lewis...

 

Perhaps another reason some people are not happy about it is because this is the exception, not the rule. If companies did more work to support charities and good causes, then maybe the response would be 'Ah, here is Sainsburys next charity support, good for them'. If more companies did this kind of thing, it would be a really positive move.

 

I'm no fan of the corporate machine, or of gaining traction out of other events, but then again I wish there was MORE of this kind of thing.

 

I don't know how much money Sainsburys are donating to the British Legion (is it just the proceeds from the chocolate bars?) but suspect that the ad was very expensive. Couldn't they have just given that money to the BL?

[so22saint]

http://www.youtube.com/embed/nyIofp-v-PA

[trousers]

I don't know how much money Sainsburys are donating to the British Legion (is it just the proceeds from the chocolate bars?) but suspect that the ad was very expensive. Couldn't they have just given that money to the BL?

 

http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/about-us/news/remembrance/sainsburys-and-the-legion-partner-to-bring-ww1-christmas-truce-story-to-life

 

Sainsbury's has unveiled a poignant new advertising campaign featuring an account of the 1914 First World War Christmas truce to screens in millions of homes. Called Christmas is for Sharing, the full length 3' 20" TV ad aired for the first time last night in the Coronation Street ad break to help raise funds and awareness of The Royal British Legion's work supporting Service men and women. (View video below)

 

Directed by Ringan Ledwidge, the advert is a creative interpretation of the moment when on Christmas Day 1914, British and German soldiers paused, laid down their arms, and came together on neutral territory to share greetings, treats, cigarettes and even a game of football. Sainsbury's and The Royal British Legion have sought to make the portrayal of the truce as accurate as possible, basing it on original reports and letters, as well as working with historians throughout the development and production process.

In the ad, the story is told from the perspective of a young British soldier who dares to venture from his trench in to No Man's Land to greet his rivals and initiate a football game. He shares a moment of connection and friendship with a young German soldier and, as the truce ends and they return to their trenches, the German soldier is moved to discover that his British friend has hidden the gift of a chocolate bar in his pocket.

Marking 20 years of support

The campaign is the latest expression of Sainsbury's 20 year relationship with The Royal British Legion. Sainsbury's is one of the biggest supporters of the Legion and waits until after Armistice Day to launch its annual Christmas campaign so that stores can remain focused on raising funds for the Poppy Appeal. In 2013 alone, Sainsbury's raised around £4.5m for the charity through colleague, supplier and customer fundraising and an exclusive range of poppy products.

This Christmas Sainsbury's will be doing even more to raise funds beyond the Poppy Appeal, including:

• Selling the WW1 chocolate bar featured in the ad in Sainsbury's stores for £1, with all profits donated to the Legion. The limited edition 100g Taste the Difference Belgian Milk Chocolate bar is manufactured in Ypres, Belgium, and features the same period packaging seen in the ad.
  
• The Legion will be one of Sainsbury's charity Christmas card partners
  

Charles Byrne, Director of Fundraising for The Royal British Legion, commented: "We're very proud of our 20 year partnership with Sainsbury's and this campaign is particularly important. 100 years on from the 1914 Christmas truce, the campaign remembers the fallen, while helping to raise vital funds to support the future of living. Established after the First World War, The Royal British Legion continues its work to support members of the Armed Forces, ex-Service men and women and their families, now and for the rest of their lives."

Mark Given, Head of Brand Communications, Sainsbury's, commented: "Christmas is a special time of year when people pause to reflect on what's important. More than any other time of year, people come together to share simple moments and kindnesses.

"This year, we wanted to reflect that theme of sharing in our Christmas campaign through the lens of one of the most extraordinary moments of sharing in modern history, when on Christmas Day 1914, British and German soldiers paused, laid down their arms, and came together on neutral territory to share by singing, exchanging mementoes and even a game of football.

"The Christmas truce is an emotive and cherished story in our history that is especially poignant in this WW1 centenary year. That's why we have worked together closely with The Royal British Legion to bring this moment to life with authenticity and respect.

"We know many of our customers feel as passionately about the incredible work of the Legion as we do. We hope our campaign will raise awareness and funds for the charity and inspire our customers to share a memorable Christmas with family and friends."

[sadoldgit]

Thanks for that Trousers. So Sainsburys "raise" money for the BL. So they could continue to raise money but could have also given the cost of the ad to the BL as well. AS has been said before, are people going to go to Sainsburys and not Tescos now just because of this ad? We tend to go to our local supermarket don't we? I prefer Sainsburys to Tescos but Tescos is closer so that is where I do most of my shopping. At Christmas every supermarket I have ever been in is rammed full of customers. Instead of going to so much trouble a short ad saying get your Xmas goodies at Sainsburys and we are giving money to the BL would have worked just as well and the BL would have been even more quids in.

 

I love the John Lewis ad by the way but hate the way that it is played constantly when you are in the store. Talk about overkill. I was sick of the music and the ad well before Christmas last year and I'm sure I'll feel the same this year.

[buctootim]

I used to do a lot of work with Sainsbury's on ethical and sustainable sourcing of products. It was expensive for them and they used to complain that they got no credit for it for in the market or in press. Consumers, in spite of what they claimed, would mostly buy the Tesco version which was a penny cheaper rather than follow their 'principles'. One other company said that they never supported charities any more because in the past they had donated for nine years to one local community group and got no press at all but when they wanted to switch and support another charity in accordance with their staff's wishes, they got a barrage of hostile press along the lines of "local company forces charity closure". Sainsbury's are getting some of that now with the British Legion and are probably wishing they had gone the safe route and advertised 10p off Christmas puddings.

 

If you want more ethical companies you have to use your money wisely - not criticising the better guys and falling instead for the corporate spin of the arseholes. That means, for example, seeing through the crap about how they are saving orang utans by creating a sanctuary when what they really mean is they cleared 98% of the rain forest for palm oil plantations and left an isolated patch of land as a reserve.

Edited 18 November, 2014 by buctootim

[CB Saint]

Struggling to see why a company raising £4m+ a year for charity is a bad thing - yes they get publicity but it is £4m that the charity wouldn't have otherwise had.

 

The very fact that the advert is endorsed by the organisation that represents the veterans, would suggest that it is not as bad as people are making out.

 

People complain about big business being only concerned with the returns to shareholders, however when they try to give something back to the community, they get hammered.

[sadoldgit]

The World War One Centenary is a time to reflect one of the biggest wastes of human lives in the 20th Century. Why it happened, the lives it destroyed and how future wars can be averted are important lessons for our age. The ceramic poppies at the tower of London - 888,246 of them, each representing an extinguished human life - formed the centre of many moving tributes across the country.

 

It is important that we remember, but also how we remember it. The Sainsbury's Christmas advert not only flagrantly exploited the public mood to hock Christmas tat it commits a far bigger crime - it tries to make war picturesque.

 

War is an ugly business - over 6.5 million civilians died of disease and famine alone and a further 1 million were killed by 'direct military actions' in WW1. Combine that with military deaths through violence, malnutrition, disease and mental health issues and you have a total war dead equivalent to four times the population of Ireland. But of course this is not how Sainsbury's chooses to remember WW1 - because dead babies don't sell chocolate bars.

 

We can, unfortunately, expect to see more of this advertising. The partnership between the Royal British Legion and Sainsbury's is indicative of a country that is quite happy to fight wars but tends to shrug it shoulders when it is asked to pay for them. We find ourselves dependent on charitable giving to support veterans that the government can't or won't pay for. Organisations, like the Royal British Legion, will therefore sell themselves to the highest bidder to fill the gap. The bizarre outcome is Sainsbury's giving us the perverse Christmas message that chocolate makes war OK.

 

The simple truth is people who go through the necessary conditioning to be able to participate in the legalised murder of people they don't know, in countries they've never been to, for reasons they don't understand, are going to come back damaged.

 

Inevitably this has an impact - around 9,000 ex-servicemen are living on the streets largely because of mental health issues that are a direct consequence of military service. Veterans of warfare almost always need greater state resources to come to terms with the psychological impact of working in warzones - the government to its credit has given some recognition to this.

 

The military covenant, now enshrined in law set out a new deal that armed services personnel can expect in terms of support from the British government in return for their service. The devil, however, is in the numbers - all sustainable funding for the Covenant annually is set to be around £10 million or 1/10th of what the Royal British Legion spends each year or 1/3500th of the MoD the annual spend.

 

Way back in Christmas in 2011 I had a habit of popping by the Occupy London Stock Exchange protest on my transits through central London. During this time I made friends with a convicted thief, a recovering addict and a recent divorcee who were, like me, avid chess players at the "Tea and Empathy" tent.

 

Divided in age and circumstance but united by the ugliest of human experiences - deprivation and homelessness. Another thing united them - they were all previously armed services personnel. All their stories of largely self-inflicted misery certainly won't light up the sympathy circuits of everyone but they were all, in a very Christian tradition, penitent figures.

 

These are the people that are left behind by a government that would rather charities pick up the bill for the wars they start. Whilst Help for Heroes, Royal British Legion and Combat Stress do vital work, that work should be paid for by the state that is responsible for putting service personnel in harm's way in the first place.

 

Until then we are likely to see more corporate flogging of military history for their own profit. The Sainsbury's advert has been described as a 'masterpiece' and 'heart-warming' - but I fail to see that the exploitative manipulation of one of the darkest chapters in human history to peddle inflatable lawn ornaments as anything less than tacky, callous and probably evil.

 

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

Follow Shaughan Dolan on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/Dolansphere

[pap]

*applause*

[KelvinsRightGlove]

[Minty]

You are probably on to something there, there definitely needs to be more war tie-ins in advertising.

 

The holocaust must have potential to make some cash if you follow the same formular:

 

Tug the heart strings - charity tie-in - product placement - token donation. Some company should be able to make a killing. Charity gets some money, everyone wins.

 

Can't wait til next year.

 

Thanks for the sarcastic reply.

 

Can I just clarify that I meant the raising of money for charity and good causes, not necessarily the use of specific events in this way. I think this one is ok - I will admit I was a bit uncomfortable about it at first, but do feel the underlying message is about overcoming adversity to recognise our common human existence. But on the wider point, I wish more companies would do more to support charities and other causes - that's mainly what I meant.

[Minty]

I don't know how much money Sainsburys are donating to the British Legion (is it just the proceeds from the chocolate bars?) but suspect that the ad was very expensive. Couldn't they have just given that money to the BL?

 

And yes, that is a fair point.

[Minty]

Given the criticism it has received, has the Royal British Legion responsed at all? Surely, given the respect that most people have for them and what they do, and the fact that this advert was produced in co-operation with them, it would be sensible to hear their side of the story?

[sadoldgit]

Whatever we think of the ad, it has worked in that it has become a hot topic of conversation. Apparently Sainsburys are shifting 5000 chocolate bars an hour with 50p each going to the British Legion. Also, although it is almost a straight rip off of the Pipes of Peace video by Paul McCartney a few years back there were many people who weren't aware of the Christmas Day ceasefire so it is good that it has raised that moment of humanity in a very inhumane war. However I thought that the Dolan piece was worth using as it says it all for me.

[Minty]

That piece by Shaughan Dolan is excellent and touches on something which I wasn't going to raise here originally...

 

The partnership between the Royal British Legion and Sainsbury's is indicative of a country that is quite happy to fight wars but tends to shrug it shoulders when it is asked to pay for them. We find ourselves dependent on charitable giving to support veterans that the government can't or won't pay for. Organisations, like the Royal British Legion, will therefore sell themselves to the highest bidder to fill the gap. The bizarre outcome is Sainsbury's giving us the perverse Christmas message that chocolate makes war OK.

 

The fact we need any charity to help support anything or anyone in need is a pretty sad indictment of where the priorities of government, 'big business' and many people lay.

[trousers]

So, we're all in agreement then: different opinions are good and there's no right or wrong here?

 

Excellent.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

So, we're all in agreement then: different opinions are good and there's no right or wrong here?

 

Excellent.

 

Burn the dissenter!!

 

[Minty]

So, we're all in agreement then: different opinions are good and there's no right or wrong here?

 

Excellent.

 

This is SaintsWeb. It's never that simple.

[hutch]

So, we're all in agreement then: different opinions are good and there's no right or wrong here?

 

Excellent.

Did you check with the patrons first, to make sure it's OK with them?

[Verbal]

That piece by Shaughan Dolan is excellent and touches on something which I wasn't going to raise here originally...

 

The fact we need any charity to help support anything or anyone in need is a pretty sad indictment of where the priorities of government, 'big business' and many people lay.

 

It doesn't seem that 'excellent' to me though. What it does indicate is that moral outrage can be taken to mean that reasoned argument is superfluous. For example, "the bizarre outcome is Sainsbury's giving us the perverse Christmas message that chocolate makes war OK" sounds a good rabble-rousing slogan...if it were true. But it isn't.

 

The ad is about an incident that happened outside of the more usual conduct of war (and almost certainly against standing orders about fraternising with the enemy). The chocolate bar was exchanged as a surprise gift from one enemy combatant to another. How exactly is that 'making war ok'? Is the argument only sensible from the sanctimonious point of view of a high horse?

 

By all means disagree with the sentiments in the ad, or complain about the state of affairs where a war victims' charity depends on a supermarket. But I can't but feel it would help if the more voluble critics were able to dial down the emote control so we can hear what they're actually saying.

[pap]

It doesn't seem that 'excellent' to me though. What it does indicate is that moral outrage can be taken to mean that reasoned argument is superfluous. For example, "the bizarre outcome is Sainsbury's giving us the perverse Christmas message that chocolate makes war OK" sounds a good rabble-rousing slogan...if it were true. But it isn't.

 

The ad is about an incident that happened outside of the more usual conduct of war (and almost certainly against standing orders about fraternising with the enemy). The chocolate bar was exchanged as a surprise gift from one enemy combatant to another. How exactly is that 'making war ok'? Is the argument only sensible from the sanctimonious point of view of a high horse?

 

By all means disagree with the sentiments in the ad, or complain about the state of affairs where a war victims' charity depends on a supermarket. But I can't but feel it would help if the more voluble critics were able to dial down the emote control so we can hear what they're actually saying.

 

Quite right. As someone that has made militaristic propaganda about the British armed forces during a time of barely-naked imperialism, Verbal is perfectly placed to comment.

[Minty]

It doesn't seem that 'excellent' to me though. What it does indicate is that moral outrage can be taken to mean that reasoned argument is superfluous. For example, "the bizarre outcome is Sainsbury's giving us the perverse Christmas message that chocolate makes war OK" sounds a good rabble-rousing slogan...if it were true. But it isn't.

 

The ad is about an incident that happened outside of the more usual conduct of war (and almost certainly against standing orders about fraternising with the enemy). The chocolate bar was exchanged as a surprise gift from one enemy combatant to another. How exactly is that 'making war ok'? Is the argument only sensible from the sanctimonious point of view of a high horse?

 

By all means disagree with the sentiments in the ad, or complain about the state of affairs where a war victims' charity depends on a supermarket. But I can't but feel it would help if the more voluble critics were able to dial down the emote control so we can hear what they're actually saying.

 

Fair comments there. I certainly agree about the line about 'chocolate making war ok'. But the wider point about the need for charities in the first place was my main chord of agreement.

[trousers]

The fact we need any charity to help support anything or anyone in need is a pretty sad indictment of where the priorities of government, 'big business' and many people lay.

 

Some might argue that charities are a much fairer and efficient way of wealth distribution than having governments take more of your money in the wistful hope that politicians will process it wisely...

[Halo Stickman]

It doesn't seem that 'excellent' to me though. What it does indicate is that moral outrage can be taken to mean that reasoned argument is superfluous. For example, "the bizarre outcome is Sainsbury's giving us the perverse Christmas message that chocolate makes war OK" sounds a good rabble-rousing slogan...if it were true. But it isn't.

 

The ad is about an incident that happened outside of the more usual conduct of war (and almost certainly against standing orders about fraternising with the enemy). The chocolate bar was exchanged as a surprise gift from one enemy combatant to another. How exactly is that 'making war ok'? Is the argument only sensible from the sanctimonious point of view of a high horse?

 

By all means disagree with the sentiments in the ad, or complain about the state of affairs where a war victims' charity depends on a supermarket. But I can't but feel it would help if the more voluble critics were able to dial down the emote control so we can hear what they're actually saying.

 

Agree

[pap]

Some might argue that charities are a much fairer and efficient way of wealth distribution than having governments take more of your money in the wistful hope that politicians will process it wisely...

 

Is that the lullaby you sing yourself when considering the lack of democratic accountability post-privatisation?

 

Oh, but we've got those regulators! They're really helping. No-one has any issues with their energy bills or suchlike

[sadoldgit]

It doesn't seem that 'excellent' to me though. What it does indicate is that moral outrage can be taken to mean that reasoned argument is superfluous. For example, "the bizarre outcome is Sainsbury's giving us the perverse Christmas message that chocolate makes war OK" sounds a good rabble-rousing slogan...if it were true. But it isn't.

 

The ad is about an incident that happened outside of the more usual conduct of war (and almost certainly against standing orders about fraternising with the enemy). The chocolate bar was exchanged as a surprise gift from one enemy combatant to another. How exactly is that 'making war ok'? Is the argument only sensible from the sanctimonious point of view of a high horse?

 

By all means disagree with the sentiments in the ad, or complain about the state of affairs where a war victims' charity depends on a supermarket. But I can't but feel it would help if the more voluble critics were able to dial down the emote control so we can hear what they're actually saying.

 

It makes it okay because it says forget all of the horrors of the Great War, we can feel safe in our nice warm homes because human beings are basically good and in the right circumstances will do something humane and kind (with a bit of help from Sainsburys)under certain conditions. In fact those two soldiers were trying to kill each other the day before and continued to do so the day after. As I said earlier, many soldiers were shot when they climbed out of the trenches and tried to fraternise with the "enemy" but we didn't see that because the situation had been sanitised for our Christmas consumption. It is selling a lie by compressing a nightmare that lasted 4 years into something decent that lasted a few hours..

[pap]

It makes it okay because it says forget all of the horrors of the Great War, we can feel safe in our nice warm homes because human beings are basically good and in the right circumstances will do something humane and kind (with a bit of help from Sainsburys)under certain conditions. In fact those two soldiers were trying to kill each other the day before and continued to do so the day after. As I said earlier, many soldiers were shot when they climbed out of the trenches and tried to fraternise with the "enemy" but we didn't see that because the situation had been sanitised for our Christmas consumption. It is selling a lie by compressing a nightmare that lasted 4 years into something decent that lasted a few hours..

 

*applause*

[miserableoldgit]

 

The true meaning of Christmas....Christmas lights in Oswaldtwistle

[whelk]

And yes, that is a fair point.

 

Not really it's naive.