Unbelievable Jeff Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 It's a nice problem to have, being in multiple competitions, but for me if we get to the Semi's it will detract from out league performance. If you look at league results for the smaller teams who do well in the cups they tend to drop off as they got closer to the final, and then after the final. Not sure there is much we can do, as we all want a cup final, but I can see it being our undoing...
Sour Mash Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 How many teams have fallen away from the Champions League qualification when getting to the League Cup final?
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 12 November, 2014 Author Posted 12 November, 2014 How many teams have fallen away from the Champions League qualification when getting to the League Cup final? It's more league form in general for teams with smaller squads.
CB Fry Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Maybe all the clubs we've knocked out of the League Cup have been paid to lose to us as a way of destabilising our attempt to get in the Champions League. Sheffield United probably have been paid to make sure it goes for 120 minutes and penalties.
Bucks Saint Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Now you mention it, lets hope we are fully planning to lose the FA Cup 3rd round too
shurlock Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 It's more league form in general for teams with smaller squads. Not sure what your point is? You're blurring two different things. Is it that clubs with smaller squads suffer because they can't deal with the fixture backlog (we're only three games away from Wembley) Or is it that clubs are too focused on the cup final they take their foot of the pedal in the league (arguably for most players, getting into the CL is a bigger incentive; it's just that as sour mash points out, hardly any teams like us have had a credible chance of qualifying for it)
Sour Mash Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 It's more league form in general for teams with smaller squads. Well without a doubt, a full league season, wth a fair few cup games is going to put a strain on our small squad and will most likely be the cause of us dropping points over the course of the season.
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 12 November, 2014 Author Posted 12 November, 2014 Maybe all the clubs we've knocked out of the League Cup have been paid to lose to us as a way of destabilising our attempt to get in the Champions League. Sheffield United probably have been paid to make sure it goes for 120 minutes and penalties. Gosh you're getting really worked up about that aren't you?
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 12 November, 2014 Author Posted 12 November, 2014 Not sure what your point is? You're blurring two different things. Is it that clubs with smaller squads suffer because they can't deal with the fixture backlog (we're only three games away from Wembley) Or is it that clubs are too focused on the cup final they take their foot of the pedal in the league (arguably for most players, getting into the CL is a bigger incentive; it's just that as sour mash points out, hardly any teams like us have had a credible chance of qualifying for it) Both.
scorchio21 Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 You have a point as history does suggest this to be true, I recall Swansea's league form dropping around the period they won the cup, and I think Birmingham got relegated when they won it, as did Wigan when they won the FA Cup. But that can be explained by the fact that Swansea were in mid-table with nothing much to motivate them in the league, whilst Birmingham and Wigan were just generally poor teams that somehow rose to the occasion in the cup. I think it's fair to say we've faced bigger challenges and done pretty well, like losing the manager, losing the captain, and losing a large part of our first team. So let's just chalk this up as yet another trend that we'll buck during our unstoppable rise.
moonraker Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 I dont buy the small squad argument as much this season as in previous seasons. As has often been demonstrated on here we have better cover for many postions than hitherto. I dont see a great deal of strength in depth for Arsenal or Liverpool espeicially in defence. My biggets concern is strikers, whilst JROD is still to return he will need to get going quickly.
Crazy Diamond Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Wow. Have we really turned into that kind of club? The answer, given we're in the early stages of the season, is no.
Batman Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 I think we should put the league cup way ahead of some fanciful champions league dream
doddisalegend Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 If we get into Europe we will need to learn to cope with more games so think of the cups as good practice. Also the Likes of Jose, Jack and Morgan should be used to playing lots of games after playing in the lower leagues.
Batman Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 If we get into Europe we will need to learn to cope with more games so think of the cups as good practice. Also the Likes of Jose, Jack and Morgan should be used to playing lots of games after playing in the lower leagues. Getting used to playing a a lot of games in the lower leagues is nothing compared to playing a a lot of top level games
doddisalegend Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Didn't we have this argument last season we tanked the cups and ended up mid table (great fun:yawn:) maybe good runs in the cups will actually spur us on in the league?
hypochondriac Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 I think we should put the league cup way ahead of some fanciful champions league dream Tbf I don't think we will get champions league but it's probably the best chance we will ever have and not impossible (Newcastle were close a few years back after all.) I agree that I would much rather win a cup than qualify for the Champions League because we will get knocked out of it and will have won nothing. It would be as tragic as pompey still hailing the time they nicked a draw against Milan at fratton.
Sour Mash Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 (edited) I dont buy the small squad argument There isn't an argument to "buy". We have e small squad, smaller than our competitors. We've done very well so far in terms of injuries and suspensions, very unlikely that will last for the course of the season. Edited 12 November, 2014 by Sour Mash
Hatch Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 If we get to Final. Final – Sunday 1st March 2015 Due to pay WBA on the Saturday, then home to Palace on the Tuesday. I'm guessing the Palace game will still go ahead as scheduled. So that could be a problem.
Bucks Saint Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Didn't we have this argument last season we tanked the cups and ended up mid table (great fun:yawn:) maybe good runs in the cups will actually spur us on in the league? Its a very good point. Winning is an excellent habit and is the single best method of improving spirit and confidence, no matter what the competition is.
CB Fry Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Gosh you're getting really worked up about that aren't you? No, you're getting worked up. I'm taking the pi ss. My new favourite bit: you asking Pap to back you up. Well done.
Dalek2003 Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 It's a nice problem to have, being in multiple competitions, but for me if we get to the Semi's it will detract from out league performance. If you look at league results for the smaller teams who do well in the cups they tend to drop off as they got closer to the final, and then after the final. Not sure there is much we can do, as we all want a cup final, but I can see it being our undoing... Good post. I would wait until we are safe, which we may well do by the end of December and then go for the FA CUP. I am worried that we might go on and win the League Cup and get relegated, never mind qualifying for the European Cup.
derry Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 One game at a time. We can cross the bridges when and if we get there.
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 12 November, 2014 Author Posted 12 November, 2014 No, you're getting worked up. I'm taking the pi ss. My new favourite bit: you asking Pap to back you up. Well done. Yeah, right. And as for asking Pap, I dressed it up as a conspiracy theory, and we all know he likes them, that's all.
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 12 November, 2014 Author Posted 12 November, 2014 Good post. I would wait until we are safe, which we may well do by the end of December and then go for the FA CUP. I am worried that we might go on and win the League Cup and get relegated, never mind qualifying for the European Cup. Well, that's my theory screwed if Dalek thinks it's a good post...
S-Clarke Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Good post. I would wait until we are safe, which we may well do by the end of December and then go for the FA CUP. I am worried that we might go on and win the League Cup and get relegated, never mind qualifying for the European Cup. Your act is so crap. Give it up.
Tom28 Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 We had this same debate last year. In the end we went out of the league cup to Sunderland and still dropped out of the Champions League spots. Let's just take it game by game rather than plotting some strategy about where we focus attention
JRM Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 I don't normally get drawn to posts such as this but f*ck sake Dalek surely even you must be bored of going through the motions to post such shlt . Stop wasting your life. Your act is so crap. Give it up.
S-Clarke Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 We had this same debate last year. In the end we went out of the league cup to Sunderland and still dropped out of the Champions League spots. Let's just take it game by game rather than plotting some strategy about where we focus attention Absolutely this. For me, it's all about aiming for what is a realistic goal. And however anyone paints it, Top 4 isn't really realistic and it's a huge outside chance and will require a lot of luck. Whereas the league cup is an actual realistic opportunity, 1 game from a 2 legged Semi and a potential bit of silverware. I think I know where I'd place my priorities...
CB Fry Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Your act is so crap. Give it up. I don't normally get drawn to posts such as this but f*ck sake Dalek surely even you must be bored of going through the motions to post such shlt . Stop wasting your life. Dalek playing blinder as usual. Sorry chaps. He is never, ever going to stop. He genuinely thinks he is hilarious.
pap Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Most teams don't bother scoring many more when they go in 3-0 up. Koeman wasn't having any of that.
Dark Munster Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Absolutely this. For me, it's all about aiming for what is a realistic goal. And however anyone paints it, Top 4 isn't really realistic and it's a huge outside chance and will require a lot of luck. Whereas the league cup is an actual realistic opportunity, 1 game from a 2 legged Semi and a potential bit of silverware. I think I know where I'd place my priorities... We're 5th favorites to be in the top 4. We've got the best defensive record in the whole country, and the best g.d. in the league. We're 4 points ahead of 3rd place. So I beg to differ that top 4 isn't really realistic and it's a huge outside chance and will require a lot of luck. We're only 3rd favorites for the league cup (with only one winner of course), so I'd say the odds are better for a top 4 finish versus winning the cup. But RK will go all out to win it, and I'm glad about that, and that he's the anti-MP.
pap Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 No, you're getting worked up. I'm taking the pi ss. My new favourite bit: you asking Pap to back you up. Well done. "Now you're stalking."
View From The Top Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Good post. I would wait until we are safe, which we may well do by the end of December and then go for the FA CUP. I am worried that we might go on and win the League Cup and get relegated, never mind qualifying for the European Cup. I hope you lose the use of your arms you tedious p***k.
S-Clarke Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 We're 5th favorites to be in the top 4. We've got the best defensive record in the whole country, and the best g.d. in the league. We're 4 points ahead of 3rd place. So I beg to differ that top 4 isn't really realistic and it's a huge outside chance and will require a lot of luck. We're only 3rd favorites for the league cup (with only one winner of course), so I'd say the odds are better for a top 4 finish versus winning the cup. But RK will go all out to win it, and I'm glad about that, and that he's the anti-MP. We're 4 games from winning some silverware. Or we're 27 games from achieving a top 4 place. Don't get me wrong, our start has been incredible and extraordinary, but it's not too dissimilar from last season and the league evened it's self out in the end - which it will again. We do not have a big enough squad to sustain this, and whatever anyone says, we will have issues with injuries and suspensions as every team does during a season. We have better depth than last year, which is why I think we'll get top 6, but not quite enough depth for the top 4.
pap Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 I hope you lose the use of your arms you tedious p***k. Dalek2003 has no arms. More stalks with ordnance. Horribly disfigured, and doesn't deal well with stairs. Having a pop at the disabled? You utter bastard, VFTT.
Coxford_lou Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 But which? This thread seems to be trolls feeding the trolls...!
pap Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 But which? This thread seems to be trolls feeding the trolls...! There are unseen hands guiding this spectacle, blocking Unbelievable Jeff's drive as we speak. The plan is get everyone in place and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. Three posts to reach minimum safe distance.
aintforever Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Winning the League Cup is still way more likely than a 4th place finish IMO, definitely wouldn't put a weakened teamout for the cup.
Dalek2003 Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Ah... I think a washing machine has just landed on my doorstep.
LGTL Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Would rather win the League Cup and finish 10th.
Dalek2003 Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Would rather win the League Cup and finish 10th. Finish in the top 6 and this achievement will be remembered long after the League Cup.
LGTL Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Finish in the top 6 and this achievement will be remembered long after the League Cup. Not by me.
Dalek2003 Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Not by me. Its always a matter of opinion, but I cannot believe that a league Cup win is worth as much as a top 6 win. The FA Cup is, but I would generally always put league before Cup.
doddisalegend Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Not by me. Nor me. Its not like we are a club with a trophy cabinet brimming with trophies.....it's the nature of modern football that coming sixth is considered more of any achievement than actually winning something:shakey:
Chewy Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Nor me. Its not like we are a club with a trophy cabinet brimming with trophies.....it's the nature of modern football that coming sixth is considered more of any achievement than actually winning something:shakey: I think this is possibly the most ridiculous thread I've ever seen on here. The op is gibberish. We are having the season of our lives. Who knows where our form will take us and when it will end. Ride the crest of a wave and try and win something, be it a cup win, a european place or even, unbelievably, a champions league spot. But we should commit on all fronts. We can not pick and choose, we've had so little real success over the years that we have to try and take every opportuniy available to us, be it the league, league cup or fa cup. To suggest now, in November, that we should give up on one front to try and improve our chances on another, completely unlikely front, is bonkers. Get real.
Dalek2003 Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 I think this is possibly the most ridiculous thread I've ever seen on here. The op is gibberish. We are having the season of our lives. Who knows where our form will take us and when it will end. Ride the crest of a wave and try and win something, be it a cup win, a european place or even, unbelievably, a champions league spot. But we should commit on all fronts. We can not pick and choose, we've had so little real success over the years that we have to try and take every opportuniy available to us, be it the league, league cup or fa cup. To suggest now, in November, that we should give up on one front to try and improve our chances on another, completely unlikely front, is bonkers. Get real. I would rather we concentrate our energies on one goal, the premier league, than adopt a scatter gun approach with small squad. We could easily end up failing to win either cup and finish mid table or lower.
Chewy Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 I would rather we concentrate our energies on one goal, the premier league, than adopt a scatter gun approach with small squad. We could easily end up failing to win either cup and finish mid table or lower. Well thank goodness you're not the manager. This thin squad argument is a myth. Aside from in goal we have adequate (and in some places excellent) cover, and I'm led to believe we can recall boruc if needed. Rotation is over used and unnecessary unless you have a 60 game campaign with the modern european format. We don't. The most consistent selections this season have been by us and Chelsea. The two best sides? Yep, you got it. Yes football has changed, but the liverpool that dominated 30 years ago had a far thinner squad than we do, and played more games. We can cope. And two failed cup wins and a mid-table finish would hardly be a below par performance versus our last ten to twenty years, would it? I know you're trolling and I'm biting, but your posts are utterly stupid.
View From The Top Posted 12 November, 2014 Posted 12 November, 2014 Dalek2003 has no arms. More stalks with ordnance. Horribly disfigured, and doesn't deal well with stairs. Having a pop at the disabled? You utter bastard, VFTT. Always.
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