Will Roko and the board go for broke in January!!!

[Ohio Saint]

Saints have an American lawyer playing as Saints in Football Manager........We have arrived!!!!

[Redslo]

when a post is prefaced thus i always think to myself, YES! this is gonna be a valuable contribution to the debate!

 

Well, it is better than saying that I did this in FM so Southampton should be able to do it in real life.

 

That being said, what is really crazy is that the progress we have made in the real world mirrors what I do in FM which I always assumed was unrealistic. But spending just one year in the Championship. Going from relegation battle to top half finish to contending for Europe in three years. That is what happens in FM. We should all hope that the pattern continues since my Southampton saves always dominate the Champions League by the end of this decade.

 

The football equivalent of 'I'm not racist but...'

 

I think what Redslo is trying to say is that we need to sign Cherno Samba and Tonton Moukoko in January.

 

Absent the fact that being racist is worse than taking FM too seriously and the specific names, that is exactly what I am saying.

 

Saints have an American lawyer playing as Saints in Football Manager........We have arrived!!!!

 

I am the arbiter of American taste in English football teams.

[Bearsy]

You're ok, Redslo I dunno if I'd want you as my defence lawyer tho, "Well, your honour, I know Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories is not real life, but..."

[Redslo]

You're ok, Redslo I dunno if I'd want you as my defence lawyer tho, "Well, your honour, I know Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories is not real life, but..."

 

Don't worry, I only do appeals. You would have to be convicted to get me as your lawyer. So then I would be arguing that your trial attorney erred by not bring in your Grand Theft Auto claim.

[Saint Jude]

Suggest we look at history here... And list all the really big money signings in the January window that made a significant impact on their teams performance in the succeeding few months... I can't think of many...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Redslo]

Suggest we look at history here... And list all the really big money signings in the January window that made a significant impact on their teams performance in the succeeding few months... I can't think of many...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Assuming you mean a favorable impact, I can suggest Suarez and Cisse and Jermain Defoe--but your point is valid. After all, in the past few years there was Darren Bent, Fernando Torres, and Andy Carroll. All of whom had a negative impact on their teams--at least with respect to the waste of money. January is a time to take advantage of teams with financial troubles or facing relegation by buying their good young prospects cheap, not a time to strengthen the first team by overpaying for someone that a good team does not want.

Edited 4 November, 2014 by Redslo
to remove censoring because of spelling of Cisse's first name

[Bermuda Saint]

Assuming you mean a favorable impact, I can suggest Suarez and Cisse and Jermain Defoe--but your point is valid. After all, in the past few years there was Darren Bent, Fernando Torres, and Andy Carroll. All of whom had a negative impact on their teams--at least with respect to the waste of money. January is a time to take advantage of teams with financial troubles or facing relegation by buying their good young prospects cheap, not a time to strengthen the first team by overpaying for someone that a good team does not want.

 

That is new to me! January has traditionally been a sellers market, teams needing to avoid relegation or push for CL spots will pay over the odds to change the fortunes of their team, some teams buying out of desperation some hoping for inspiration.

 

Oh, I forgot, we are too good for the likes of Klose, André-Pierre Gignac, Klaas-Jan Huntelaar, Luiz Adriano, Shaqiri or Marco Reus !, and they are not wanted according to redsolo (he has analyzed the numbers and stripped footy down to a formula that has no room for throwing caution to the wind). We don't need them to finish 8th!! sorry, I was getting un-saints like and actually believing that my team is good enough to challenge the CL spots with a little bit of proven quality to assist our great team.

[Bermuda Saint]

OK, I get it saints fans, years of disappointment has left you incapable of dreaming for the stars. If we are in CL places during the Jan transfer window why not try for that impact player. Dream big....ings? bigger......charlie austin (he is big physically).......bigger......Diego milito......bigger......Miroslav Klose, ahhh, now your talking. A proven goal scorer, who still looks like he has got it in the tank to be a big impact player. A partner to Pelle, or supersub, someone to complement the team, not upset it, an experienced head used to the pressure of big games, an impact player. You see where I am going with this, this is where I hope the board will go!.

 

No one is suggesting get some ego maniac that thinks it is all about him and will disrupt team harmony, c'mon guys, that is what we do! we look extensively into players mental and physical abilities (I think Osvaldo was MOPO idea, and not the norm). Players like Klaas-Jan Huntelaar, Morata, Mora, or maybe even the great Pirlo. If they will fit into ROKO plans, they will bring instant class to a team looking to beat the big boys. If we are serious that we can achieve something special this year, because what we have expertly put together is gelling together so quickly and seamlessly. Then our hard fought for top 4 position is worth keeping with a little push (think BIG!). We will not forget our academy players, and the more competitions we get in the more chance they will have. They will see less time as the games get more valuable if we continue to battle for CL spots, we just can’t afford the luxury of inexperienced academy players learning their game when the stakes are so high, unfortunately our meteoric rise up the table has increased the pressure to perform at the highest level. If we were mid table I think our slow and steady approach to building a team is prudent. BUT, because we have shot out of the gate, we are a team that can keep excelling if one or two key players of proven quality come in to make the difference. Don’t give up on the prize while it’s still in reach!!

 

There are many great players that will relish the chance to play in the prem. We have the money, we have the standings (for now), we have the vision, we have the plan. The loan system is working very well for us too, (for those that are bedwetting in fear that we will blow all our money on one player and inflict financial ruin, NOT.), Bertrand and Toby are as good as signed; they would be fools if they didn't join our revolution. The loan system could be a great way to get a top notch striker or creative midfielder that cannot get into a RM, MC, PSG, BAR etc. for a reasonable amount, and we can see how this season plays out. Think outta the box Saints fans, think of the player who you would never associate with the old SFC, this is the new era, dream BIG, I bet ROKO does!!

 

I like the idea of Klose, André-Pierre Gignac, Klaas-Jan Huntelaar for strikers, or Shaqiri, Marco Reus(yes please!, ok that is dreaming a bit too much), Kevin Strootman, Matuidi, Toivonen are great mids, and I think there must be a few you can think of too. THINK BIG, but practical (will Edinson Cavani or benzema come to SFC, no). I think the attraction of Koeman and the way he has us playing is enough to turn a few heads………think BIG!.

 

I think Jordy Clasie is ours if we want him. He and ROKO are very close, I think we would have got him last summer but the strength of our midfield and the priority of keeping Spydy was forefront. He got injured right at the end of the transfer window (luck or design?) so he stayed with Feynord to mature a little more (he may be the key to Corkys contract hold up, Corky is proving once again to a new manager that he is a very good player and one who fits well into our system.) But I don't pretend to know what they do (top managers making millions on their expertise), ROKO has shown me there is better than Lalla, Ricky, lovren out there, we just have to trust their experience.

 

Rumours:

Southampton (ok, I put this in, but we should look at this guy before Newcastle becomes a French speaking stadium.)Newcastle and Arsenal are interested in signing Andre-Pierre Gignac from Marseille. (Mirror) Premier League clubs including Arsenal and Newcastle have been put on alert after Marseille admitted they might not be able to afford to keep the hotshot striker Andre-Pierre Gignac. The France forward has 10 goals in 11 games for Marcelo Bielsa’s side and is Ligue 1’s top scorer, but his contract expires at the end of the season, at 28 could be tempted by one last opportunity to move abroad.

Klaas-Jan Huntelaar has held talks over a new deal at Schalke, amid reported interest from the Premier League. The Dutch striker is available on a free transfer in the summer and the Bundesliga club were said to be willing to cash in on January. Huntelaar has enjoyed an impressive season to date, scoring seven times in 11 appearances

These are not as ambitious as my targets, and they could be just Media trash.

Everton and Southampton are hoping to sign Juventus midfielder Kwadwo Asamoah on loan in January

Southampton manager Ronald Koeman is plotting a January swoop for Palermo striker Paulo Dybala. Dybala (20)- who the Italians compared to Manchester City's Sergio Aguero is one for the future.(Mirror)

Southampton are planning a £10m bid for Tottenham's England Under-21 forward Harry Kane. (Sun)

Dirk Kuyt, currently at Turkish side Fenerbahce, is a target for Southampton in the January transfer window. (Star)

I have been a very optimistic poster, always looking for the good things we have done and can do as a club, I tried to give people hope not hopelessness. look at my post about the exodus through the summer. Some have come around and can see we are rewriting history, we do not need to live in the days of just staying up was all we could hope for.......join me in dreaming of the big leagues, We have not been wrong so far!

Even the other managers and players can see we are the real deal. (I think Bruce is trying to set himself up with a job with us in the future, he is always so complimentary about the Saints, I rate him as a manager and appreciate his opinion.)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/southampton/11203973/Ronald-Koemans-Saints-go-marching-on-as-Wanyama-wondergoal-seals-victory-at-Hull.html

 

I know financially we cannot compete with the big boys, we will have to build the majority of our team just the way we have been doing, great academy players, and picking good players from foreign countries that we have extensively scouted and deem fit to join our system at a reasonable price. FFP restrict us from trying to buy our way to the top 4 (once again, read Redsolo analysis), we are just too small of a club globally……but there is room for the exception, we are a good team, with a good bench, why buy a player with potential or youth or as good as what we have now. Those are best left for the summer, not at overinflated January transfer window. Why not get an impact player, a one off, a proven star in the twilight of his career ready for an exciting challenge, or a loan for a great player from one of the big clubs that need playing time because they have stacked themselves full of million dollar stars. If it fails we haven’t thrown the bath out with the bath water, we can go back to building slow and steady.

 

Reeds' comments in the Guardians recent article give me hope we are going to push for the CL this year:

 

"Southampton do not want to block the path to the first team for the academy players but signing proven, experienced talent is also part of the ethos." proven experience is needed in January to improve our squad for a CL challenge.

 

"It was doing the same thing we do with players: due diligence, research, make sure you are going to make the right decision, not make a mistake." With this ethos, and past purchases, i have faith they will identify players who can make an impact for the second half of the season.

 

"My gut feeling is that we will maintain a position at the top end of the Premier League" my gut, my head, my heart, my arse, my big toe all have that same feeling.

 

Southampton are aware that they will struggle to compete financially with the elite clubs and know that they have to comply with Financial Fair Play rules. Their budget is not limitless. Yet that is why they are being creative and looking for new ways to smash the glass ceiling. They are aspirational. Southampton want to be in the Champions League and they think they have worked out how to get there." That Reed is a smart cookie, having fun trying to keep up with his masterful plans.....will it be a super signing or more potential youth or we have enough thanks see you in the summer?

 

"it’s about aspiration. There’s no point investing all this with an aspiration to survive. You’ve got to have an aspiration to be successful. We don’t know when it will be. But we are putting everything in place to make sure. If there’s a fair wind and we achieve it quickly, we’ll take that. If it takes a bit longer, at least we know we have all the right things in the right place." We are not doing all this to be middle of the pack, to produce top youth academy players for others to poach. We are aiming for the top, we now have the foundations in place to keep us in the PL, we can now get a little more creative in trying to break that into those CL places. A proven, top player would be extremely creative for us

 

“The aspiration is to be there at the top and compete with the best. " read that a few times if you still feel 8th place will be ok, not for SFC, they have stated over and over again, we are going for the CL. This is the new SFC, the "Southampton Way" will see us to the promise land.

 

March on Saints, March on!!

[whelk]

Sorry Bermuda I just think you still struggle to interpret 'the Southampton Way'

[CB Fry]

Sorry Bermuda I just think you still struggle to interpret 'the Southampton Way'

Was nice to hear Ralph read out the manifesto yesterday. I think I missed the bit where he said "We are the Saints. And by jiggerdy we will be spaffing thirty million on one player in January and no mistake."

[Redslo]

That is new to me! January has traditionally been a sellers market, teams needing to avoid relegation or push for CL spots will pay over the odds to change the fortunes of their team, some teams buying out of desperation some hoping for inspiration.

 

Oh, I forgot, we are too good for the likes of Klose, André-Pierre Gignac, Klaas-Jan Huntelaar, Luiz Adriano, Shaqiri or Marco Reus !, and they are not wanted according to redsolo (he has analyzed the numbers and stripped footy down to a formula that has no room for throwing caution to the wind). We don't need them to finish 8th!! sorry, I was getting un-saints like and actually believing that my team is good enough to challenge the CL spots with a little bit of proven quality to assist our great team.

 

I have not analyzed the numbers, but I do oppose throwing caution to the wind in general when I believe Southampton's recruitment department is capable of identifying players who will strengthen the team without doing that. I am also a Moneyball type of person and I believe that we should try to take advantage of clubs that need to sell in January rather than be the club that is taken advantage of because it looks like we need (or really, really want) to buy in January.

 

As for your specific player suggestions:

 

Klose is pretty old so unless he were quite cheap including salary, it would be a mistake to sign him. If he were cheap enough he would be good back up for Pelle for the rest of the season.

 

André-Pierre Gignac's team is having their own great year--I doubt they would want to sell him, but he is out of contract this summer. I suspect his transfer fee would normally exceed 20 million pounds, but maybe not how. If he were cheap enough so that his transfer fee plus salary is consistent with the sustainability targets that the board has talked about, it might be worth taking a shot. But he will be 29 in January and likely want a long enough contract that the club would be assuming significant risks. He would certainly be a good addition based upon what I can tell, but I am not an expert at judging talent.

 

Klaas-Jan Huntelaar's contract expires this summer so he might be available pretty cheaply, but he is 31 already and it is risky to sign and rely upon any player of that age.

 

Luiz Adriano is unlikely to get a work permit given his lack of international playing time. He is out of contract this summer so he would probably be cheap enough to afford.

 

Shaqiri is exactly the type of player we should be trying for but his contract lasts until 2016 so he will not be cheap and I really don't think he would want to move here from Bayern Munich. He might end up being like Gaston Rameriz or Osvaldo where we have to way overpay (especially in salary terms) to sign a player who would not want to come here except for the money.

 

Marco Reus is currently being chased by teams who can afford to pay him far more than we can.

 

Also, I don't think we need to improve our quality to compete. I think we need to improve our depth. Good young players who will be happy to fill in as needed while they develop can do this job better, and less expensively than big name signings. And they are less likely to be disruptive influences on the team.

Edited 6 November, 2014 by Redslo
to make my mistakes less mistakey

[david in sweden]

Interesting read, but "go for broke" is exactly what the board won't want to do.

I can see us making a signing or two in order to bring cover in, but would be surprised at a record-breaking marquee signing. Can also see a couple shipped out.

 

THIS.

 

......eventual qualification for a Euro competition might see a few bigger signings next summer (when we're off with the deadwood.)

[Bermuda Saint]

I have not analyzed the numbers, but I do oppose throwing caution to the wind in general when I believe Southampton's recruitment department is capable of identifying players who will strengthen the team without doing that. I am also a Moneyball type of person and I believe that we should try to take advantage of clubs that need to sell in January rather than be the club that is taken advantage of because it looks like we need (or really, really want) to buy in January.

 

As for your specific player suggestions:

 

Klose is pretty old so unless he were quite cheap including salary, it would be a mistake to sign him. If he were cheap enough he would be good back up for Pelle for the rest of the season.

 

André-Pierre Gignac's team is having their own great year--I doubt they would want to sell him, but he is out of contract this summer. I suspect his transfer fee would normally exceed 20 million pounds, but maybe not how. If he were cheap enough so that his transfer fee plus salary is consistent with the sustainability targets that the board has talked about, it might be worth taking a shot. But he will be 29 in January and likely want a long enough contract that the club would be assuming significant risks. He would certainly be a good addition based upon what I can tell, but I am not an expert at judging talent.

 

Klaas-Jan Huntelaar's contract expires this summer so he might be available pretty cheaply, but he is 31 already and it is risky to sign and rely upon any player of that age.

 

Luiz Adriano is unlikely to get a work permit given his lack of international playing time. He is out of contract this summer so he would probably be cheap enough to afford.

 

Shaqiri is exactly the type of player we should be trying for but his contract lasts until 2016 so he will not be cheap and I really don't think he would want to move here from Bayern Munich. He might end up being like Gaston Rameriz or Osvaldo where we have to way overpay (especially in salary terms) to sign a player who would not want to come here except for the money.

 

Marco Reus is currently being chased by teams who can afford to pay him far more than we can.

 

Also, I don't think we need to improve our quality to compete. I think we need to improve our depth. Good young players who will be happy to fill in as needed while they develop can do this job better, and less expensively than big name signings. And they are less likely to be disruptive influences on the team.

 

Great reply , we agree to disagree.....but do we....so many people have read the title and not the content or context is is referring to. Once again I don't mean we will financially ruin SFC with overspending on a player. I do understand the "Southampton way" with our academy and targeting young potential stars at affordable prices with lots of room for a profit if sold on. Our training and playing style infused from academy youth to senior players. Our mantra of being financially sound and steadily improving the squad, infrastructural and personnel. None of this will change! But our board have also shown to be brave and dynamic, changing with the situation. They don't seem the type to be afraid of the challenge to get to the CL spots.

 

My prediction...They will cease on this season good start and buy/loan a proven quality player, RK and Reed will aim very high for their Jan transfer target.

 

If they don't buy/loan a proven world class player (I won't wet the bed), then I hope, like most they will continue to add squad depth with targeted analysis of promising young players. In other words, business as usual.

 

"Also, I don't think we need to improve our quality to compete. I think we need to improve our depth. Good young players who will be happy to fill in as needed while they develop can do this job better, and less expensively than big name signings. And they are less likely to be disruptive influences on the team. "

 

Most of this I do disagree with. We do need to improve quality (always looking to improve) to compete against the top 4, unless u are still stuck in the notion we should not aim too high this year, steady as she goes, then you are right , we can get young players and use our academy to steadily improve over the years as some mature and hope the others don't leave (Tadic, Clyne, Spydy etc). I have and it seem like SFC has moved its target from better than eight to wanting to stay in top 4. We are already bucking the trend with the team of non-superstars playing as well as the big boys. But this is not the norm, not saying we can't do it, I feel we can compete with any team in the PL with our first choice 11. But to rely on youth still learning their trade is asking a lot. To much if you ask my me. TO STAY TOP 4 we will need to do what most CL teams do, buy proven quality! 1 or 2 more proven quality players could be the push we need to stay top 4 (I have to keep saying this, I am not advocating buying like the MC, MU etc, we won't and we can't, I am proud of the way we have built a team from the ground up, down to earth good players, playing as a TEAM).

 

So, to stay in top 4 (lost many of you there because you refuse to let yourself believe we could be that good), in my opinion we need to by a proven player or two that will bring instant experience, quality and composure to handle the pressure that will inevitable come if we stay around the top 4. We already have enough quality youth and bench warmers that can come on and do a good job. I see buying more youth as a block to what we have. I think, because of the special circumstances we are in (2nd place) that it warrants a slight change to our short term plans and buy what we need now (players who are used to playing at the highest level) to truly give us a realistic shot at maintaining top 4. If we fail we go back to our steady improvement, but at least we would have given it a good go. We were on track this time last year, being short on quality in the squad depth hurt us. We will not make the same mistake this year.

[Redslo]

Great reply , we agree to disagree.....but do we....so many people have read the title and not the content or context is is referring to.

 

We are certainly not in complete disagreement. I believe the following to be true: if we have a good season this year that feels like (and is) an improvement on last year, but falls short of European qualification, we will have trouble holding onto Clyne, Rodriguez, Schneiderlin, and Tadic this summer. I am skeptical that we can retain Alderweireld in any case. That means that we would have to replace important players yet again next summer to continue to move forward (or even sideways). The only way to possibly avoid this is to take a significant leap forward all at once so that we can retain the good players and add to them to do well in European competition and to requalify for the next year.

 

This would suggest that taking a gamble to strengthen the team to accomplish that can be worth it.

 

The problem is that there is no evidence from past events that qualifying for the Europa League will do the job. There is some evidence from Tottenham's one year in the Champions League that qualification for that league can have a knock on effect that would enable us to retain players we might otherwise lose.

 

The problem is that I am not convinced there is any way to reliably identify a player that would make the difference between Champions League qualification and non-qualification who could ensure qualification with a high enough probability to be worth the risks that would arise from signing an expensive player whom we could not really afford unless we were playing in Europe. I am not saying such a signing would bankrupt the team--but I do think it would do damage to the sustainability goal. On the other hand, if we fail to qualify for Europe, it won't really hurt in Financial Fair Play terms--if Katharina Liebherr will cover the losses.

 

So really (in a statement of extreme obviousness) it is up to her as to whether she wants to take the risk.

 

Of course, nothing needs to be decided until we see where we are in January. If we win our next ten league games, we should be buying like we will be in the champions league anyway. If we lose them, not so much.

Edited 7 November, 2014 by Redslo
to make post less mistakey

[whelk]

All well and good theorising but who do we need other than cover players? Juan Mata on loan? Shaqiri is laughable.

[CB Fry]

 

So, to stay in top 4 (lost many of you there because you refuse to let yourself believe we could be that good), in my opinion we need to by a proven player or two that will bring instant experience, quality and composure to handle the pressure that will inevitable come if we stay around the top 4.

 

So you say you think we are good enough to to be top four and keep putting these little digs in at other posters for "not believing".

 

Except it's you that keeps typing out huge rambles about our desperate need to buy expensive, experienced quality to stay top 4.

 

So as far as I can see the person who "doesn't believe" Ronald Koeman's SFC is good enough for top 4 is, well, you.

 

Anyway. We're not going to spend £30m on individual players. It's not going to happen, so you can stop directing your little sneers and digs at forum contributors.

 

There's a brass plaque on a pavilion in Staplewood that tells you all you need to know. Read thise words. And then belt up about it.

Edited 7 November, 2014 by CB Fry

[Bermuda Saint]

So you say you think we are good enough to to be top four and keep putting these little digs in at other posters for "not believing".

 

yes, I do believe we are good enough for top 4, you are way too sensitive, my encouragement to dream for a Cl spot and eventually the league will always be a struggle to convince long time saints sufferers that "we are in a new era for SFC, and new targets will be reached"

 

Except it's you that keeps typing out huge rambles about our desperate need to buy expensive, experienced quality to stay top 4.

 

Sorry about the rambling, I thought i had put a coherent response together. I could keep it to short, snippy remarks that have no insight to SFC. It is my opinion that now is the time to buy a big name player that will provide instant quality to help us stay in CL spots. It could be a loan or a short term contract. I still maintain bringing in our usual young, full of potential players that we have so successfully added to our squad will be the mainstay of SFC transfers, but this one indulgence into a striker we would never usually associate SFC with, a game changer. The finished product.

So as far as I can see the person who "doesn't believe" Ronald Koeman's SFC is good enough for top 4 is, well, you.

 

Idiot statement, I have been nothing but encouraging of SFC, players and Manager. But I am also not delusional enough to believe that we don't need any help to stay in the CL spots. If SFC decide to stay the course I will still be very proud of SFC.

 

Anyway. We're not going to spend £30m on individual players. It's not going to happen, so you can stop directing your little sneers and digs at forum contributors.

 

OK Les Reed, Didn't know that was u hiding behind CB Cry, now I know we wont by a marquee player because CB Cry has spoken.

There's a brass plaque on a pavilion in Staplewood that tells you all you need to know. Read thise words. And then belt up about it.

 

I read them, I believe in them, they are the foundation we are built upon. BUT, I believe we have an intelligent Board that are capable of realizing that when the situation requires a departure from the norm to achieve our ultimate goals , they will act with dynamism, bravery and intelligence to make our Saints a success.

[hypochondriac]

I read them, I believe in them, they are the foundation we are built upon. BUT, I believe we have an intelligent Board that are capable of realizing that when the situation requires a departure from the norm to achieve our ultimate goals , they will act with dynamism, bravery and intelligence to make our Saints a success.

 

They certainly won't be splashing out ridiculous sums of money on a wild punt though. Glad we agree.

[CB Fry]

I read them, I believe in them, they are the foundation we are built upon. BUT, I believe we have an intelligent Board that are capable of realizing that when the situation requires a departure from the norm to achieve our ultimate goals , they will act with dynamism, bravery and intelligence to make our Saints a success.

That was well worth waiting three weeks for.

[david in sweden]

certainly not another £60 million, but a couple of signings in January to cover important positions, and another 2 or 3 in the summer.... depending on where we finish in the League ....

 

Final decisions ASAP about Alderweireld and Bertrand ...and expect a couple of new faces on the bench from the Academy...

Edited 28 November, 2014 by david in sweden