Southampton's Dream Factory

[Batman]

From Henry Winter

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/southampton/11199367/St-Marys-is-the-perfect-academy-for-youngsters-at-the-Southampton-dream-factory.html

[Sour Mash]

"We're more fluid than Barcelona"

[The Cat]

Interesting article. I can't believe the FA aren't taking more of an interest in our set up and coaching.

[Toadhall Saint]

Brilliant article.

[Whitey Grandad]

Interesting article. I can't believe the FA aren't taking more of an interest in our set up and coaching.

 

Yes indeed. What I find slightly puzzling is that we seem to be the only club doing this.

[SuperSAINT]

Interesting article. I can't believe the FA aren't taking more of an interest in our set up and coaching.

 

And there we have part of the problem with the national game.

[Redslo]

Yes indeed. What I find slightly puzzling is that we seem to be the only club doing this.

 

I think Manchester City are trying to do something like this.

 

The problem is that it takes a substantial financial commitment and a lot of patience. So long as decisions are made by owners and managers it is tough to start something like this. A new manager will realize that he will see no benefit from these type of changes and so will not support them. An owner will see no benefit for many years, and will have to deal with new manager after new manager coming in and wanting to redirect the resources to something more helpful in the short term. We really were lucky in who bought us (well, I wasn't lucky I became a fan after Markus Leibherr bought the club). As Les Reed said in his recent speech:

 

"We deliberately five years ago made a different decision. This was based on our owner who had taken the club out of administration, Markus Liebherr. He bought the club because he loved football. He had an affinity with Southampton through the docks, through his business. He loved community—big on community. He loved watching good football. So the philosophy was based on come redevelop a team that will get into the premier league. Play in the top of the premier league with 50% of our players developed through our academy. Can we get a team that can do that and be exciting for the fans so the fans enjoy coming and want to be there every week to see good football? That was where it started from and then was so what is the strategy to put that together."

 

That was a long term plan that needed money and patience to work out. In some sense, the jury is still out on the plan because we do not know if any of the youngsters brought in since then are going to make it. We have reason to be optimistic, but there are no certainties--yet another reason why other teams cannot or will not do this.

 

As a side issue, the 50% figure will likely end up being too optimistic because our good young players will be bought away from us too frequently for the club to reach that level of participation and stay there.

[david in sweden]

very interesting article and more background info. about " The Southampton Way ".. Onwards and upwards.

[davefizzy14]

A very good read that.

[aintforever]

Yes indeed. What I find slightly puzzling is that we seem to be the only club doing this.

 

Lots of clubs have academys

[adrian lord]

We really have got some very intelligent people running the club and academy. It is a fantastic club to support these days, I became a fan on 1st May 1976 aged 9, mesmerised by the Cup Final. This current era is less peaky but more sustained in terms of success and the sense of pride. The great side of the early 80s was another golden era.

 

Henry Winter is probably the brightest football writer in the press too.

[Whitey Grandad]

Lots of clubs have academys

 

I think it's compulsory or something but they don't seem to be anywhere as successful as ours.

[adrian lord]

I think it's compulsory or something but they don't seem to be anywhere as successful as ours.

 

Ours is Eton, most are failing comprehensives.

[Whitey Grandad]

I think Redslo has touched on the reasons. If the owners are filthy rich they don't need to breed talent because they can buy it, and if the owners are poor they can't afford to take a long term view.

[aintforever]

I think it's compulsory or something but they don't seem to be anywhere as successful as ours.

 

We do seem to be very successful. I think a lot might be due to our catchment area, the fact that Southampton is a half decent place to send your kid, plus the size/position of the club means youngsters will get more of a chance to break through.

[TopGun]

Great piece.

[Patrick Bateman]

I think Manchester City are trying to do something like this.

.

 

Yes, but I do think the problem with these clubs paying ridiculous salaries is that they HAVE to progress in the Champions League to fund the players, not just qualify, but progress. So you could have the best youth set up in the world, but unless you're willing to throw them in games and allow them to get game time, they won't progress and will be sold to lower league clubs and then never live up to potential.

 

I always look at clubs like Man City and think they are too scared to put youngsters in. At least Liverpool played Flanagan last year, but they seemed to have replaced him now.

 

I think with Saints, we're never going to be a huge club, but I quite like that and I like the fact that we DO bring through very well grounded, decent young players.

 

I think Barcelona got a bit lucky with their amazing crop of talent under Pep, much like the Ajax team of the mid-90s (or was it early 90s), that contained a shed load of players who went on to be superstars. But I like what we're doing and if we do get the odd foray into Europe, as long as we don't start paying silly money like Man City, then hopefully we'll continue to see decent young players come into the team, some of which will stay, some be sold for lots of cash, so we see the next lot ...

 

Good article though!

[Torrent Of Abuse]

That is a ****ing wonderful article. I must say that, in spite of all the unwanted point-scoring threads we've had on here these last few months, Turkish did get it right about Reed being an invaluable part of what is going on here - and you can probably add in Hunter and Mitchell. I'm proud not just of how my club is getting the results but how they are going about it. If other clubs don't do things our way then I don't really give a ****. It's their loss. They can keep poaching our players (at a price) if they want but we'll survive and thrive. We just need to keep this back room team together and deal with the inevitable departures from there just as we always have. Top marks, Saints.

[angelman]

Reading more into what Hunter said, it seems that the coaches aren't paid properly. The problem with that is, if another club comes in and offers them more, they might also be off. Need to get that sorted.

[TopGun]

Reading more into what Hunter said, it seems that the coaches aren't paid properly. The problem with that is, if another club comes in and offers them more, they might also be off. Need to get that sorted.

 

I think he was referring to the wider game in general. You'd imagine that Saints would recognise the going rate if all the rest is to be believed. What's the point of allowing a weakness like that if all the rest of the development programme is so driven?

Edited 30 October, 2014 by TopGun

[SarniaSaint]

Great read ......... well done DellDays

[Gemmel]

One of the best articles I've ever read about Southampton.

 

Shame on the English FA

[Ultimatt]

I have a feeling the club will be adopting the same model as Olympique Lyon. Like us they invested heavily in the academy and integrated a lot of players into the first team. The constant stream of players coming through meant they could sell their stars for profit and maintain their level. That club would still be a mighty force in Europe if not for the GFC; they became the 1st French club to be publically listed on the stock exchange, only months before the GFC hit. Totally crippled their finances.

 

The BPL is of course a much higher level than Ligue 1, so clubs here don't have the same luxury of being able to play kids all the time without a noticeable drop in results. Look at Chelsea's best XI. Courtious 22, Ivanovic 30, Terry 33, Cahill 28, Azpilicueta 25, Matic 26, Ramires 27, Fabregas 27, Hazard 23, Oscar 23, Costa 25. Bench: Cech 32, Willian 26, Remy 27, Schurlle 23, Filipe Luis 29. All their promising kids are loaned out. If we want to advance to a top 4 club then we'll need to do the same; Develop players in the academy until their ~18yo and then loan them out until they can make the 1st team. Right now that's not part of the clubs vision (understandable given we're not top 4).

[Crazy Diamond]

I remember when Hunter signed, it was a big deal. We did very well to get him - and have done even better to keep hold of him.

[Saint_clark]

I always look at clubs like Man City and think they are too scared to put youngsters in. At least Liverpool played Flanagan last year, but they seemed to have replaced him now.

 

Flanagan has a leg injury and has been out (and will be) for months.

 

I have a feeling the club will be adopting the same model as Olympique Lyon. Like us they invested heavily in the academy and integrated a lot of players into the first team. The constant stream of players coming through meant they could sell their stars for profit and maintain their level. That club would still be a mighty force in Europe if not for the GFC; they became the 1st French club to be publically listed on the stock exchange, only months before the GFC hit. Totally crippled their finances.

 

The BPL is of course a much higher level than Ligue 1, so clubs here don't have the same luxury of being able to play kids all the time without a noticeable drop in results. Look at Chelsea's best XI. Courtious 22, Ivanovic 30, Terry 33, Cahill 28, Azpilicueta 25, Matic 26, Ramires 27, Fabregas 27, Hazard 23, Oscar 23, Costa 25. Bench: Cech 32, Willian 26, Remy 27, Schurlle 23, Filipe Luis 29. All their promising kids are loaned out. If we want to advance to a top 4 club then we'll need to do the same; Develop players in the academy until their ~18yo and then loan them out until they can make the 1st team. Right now that's not part of the clubs vision (understandable given we're not top 4).

 

Only problem with that logic is we've been introducing players into the Prem at 18 and younger and they've flourished, so why loan them out?

[Ultimatt]

Only problem with that logic is we've been introducing players into the Prem at 18 and younger and they've flourished, so why loan them out?

 

They've flourished for a team finishing mid-table but did they play better than their top4 counterparts? Shaw vs Azpilicueta/Clichy/Enrique/Gibbs. Chambers v Ivanovic/Zabaleta/Johnson/Sagna. None of our stars that left for bigger clubs have flourished this year.

Our team this year is outperforming last year so far (early days I know) and it's predominantly made up of older signed players, not young academy players. In fact Koeman's favourite XI features 0 academy players with the youngest being Mane (22).

[angelman]

Ultimatt, flawed logic. Flourish in mid table PL side or loan out...to who? Clubs above won't loan them in, so surely we are better than being loaned out to clubs lower than us.

[CB Fry]

It's a great read. Very proud of the way our club does things. Well done Les and the team.

[Doctoroncall]

Nice article for Saints and also raises the question of just what are the FA suits doing to improve coaching and supporting grass roots football in this country?

[Ultimatt]

Ultimatt, flawed logic. Flourish in mid table PL side or loan out...to who? Clubs above won't loan them in, so surely we are better than being loaned out to clubs lower than us.

 

Sorry I phrased that poorly. I'm talking about if we were to become a top 4 CL club. When you're a 5th-17th placed club it's great to give the promising kids as many chances as possible, but the reality now is the BPL is too strong for the top 4 sides to play them regularly unless they're truly world-class. An 18yo needs to be something incredible to beat out a more mature experienced player in the top teams.

 

Big clubs best XI (imo):

Chelsea: Courtious 22, Ivanovic 30, Terry 33, Cahill 28, Azpilicueta 25, Matic 26, Ramires 27, Fabregas 27, Hazard 23, Oscar 23, Costa 25 - U21 players 0

ManCity: Hart, Zabaleta, Kompany, Mangala, Clichy, Fernadinho, YayaToure, Milner, Silva, Navas, Aguero - U21 players 0

Arsenal: Szczesny, Debuchy, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Gibbs, Arteta, Wilshere, Ramsay, Sanchez, Ozil, Welbeck - U21 players 0

ManUnited: De Gea, Rafael, Jones, Evans, Rojo, Blind, Herrera, Di Maria, Rooney, RvP, Falcao - U21 players 0

Liverpool: Mignolet, Manquillo, Lovren, Skrtel, Moreno, Can, Gerrard, Henderson, Sterling, Lallana, Sturridge - U21 players 2 (Don't see them making top4 this season)

[Dalek2003]

We really have got some very intelligent people running the club and academy. It is a fantastic club to support these days, I became a fan on 1st May 1976 aged 9, mesmerised by the Cup Final. This current era is less peaky but more sustained in terms of success and the sense of pride. The great side of the early 80s was another golden era.

 

Henry Winter is probably the brightest football writer in the press too.

 

Loved the 'battling 90's'. The low point was the failure to appoint Hoddle in 2004 and our subsequent slow decline.

[Saint_clark]

Sorry I phrased that poorly. I'm talking about if we were to become a top 4 CL club. When you're a 5th-17th placed club it's great to give the promising kids as many chances as possible, but the reality now is the BPL is too strong for the top 4 sides to play them regularly unless they're truly world-class. An 18yo needs to be something incredible to beat out a more mature experienced player in the top teams.

 

Big clubs best XI (imo):

Chelsea: Courtious 22, Ivanovic 30, Terry 33, Cahill 28, Azpilicueta 25, Matic 26, Ramires 27, Fabregas 27, Hazard 23, Oscar 23, Costa 25 - U21 players 0

ManCity: Hart, Zabaleta, Kompany, Mangala, Clichy, Fernadinho, YayaToure, Milner, Silva, Navas, Aguero - U21 players 0

Arsenal: Szczesny, Debuchy, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Gibbs, Arteta, Wilshere, Ramsay, Sanchez, Ozil, Welbeck - U21 players 0

ManUnited: De Gea, Rafael, Jones, Evans, Rojo, Blind, Herrera, Di Maria, Rooney, RvP, Falcao - U21 players 0

Liverpool: Mignolet, Manquillo, Lovren, Skrtel, Moreno, Can, Gerrard, Henderson, Sterling, Lallana, Sturridge - U21 players 2 (Don't see them making top4 this season)

 

And in our best 11 we have 0 players under 21 as well.

[hutch]

Sorry I phrased that poorly. I'm talking about if we were to become a top 4 CL club. When you're a 5th-17th placed club it's great to give the promising kids as many chances as possible, but the reality now is the BPL is too strong for the top 4 sides to play them regularly unless they're truly world-class. An 18yo needs to be something incredible to beat out a more mature experienced player in the top teams.

 

Big clubs best XI (imo):

Chelsea: Courtious 22, Ivanovic 30, Terry 33, Cahill 28, Azpilicueta 25, Matic 26, Ramires 27, Fabregas 27, Hazard 23, Oscar 23, Costa 25 - U21 players 0

ManCity: Hart, Zabaleta, Kompany, Mangala, Clichy, Fernadinho, YayaToure, Milner, Silva, Navas, Aguero - U21 players 0

Arsenal: Szczesny, Debuchy, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Gibbs, Arteta, Wilshere, Ramsay, Sanchez, Ozil, Welbeck - U21 players 0

ManUnited: De Gea, Rafael, Jones, Evans, Rojo, Blind, Herrera, Di Maria, Rooney, RvP, Falcao - U21 players 0

Liverpool: Mignolet, Manquillo, Lovren, Skrtel, Moreno, Can, Gerrard, Henderson, Sterling, Lallana, Sturridge - U21 players 2 (Don't see them making top4 this season)

Even if you're a top 4 club in the PL you will still play more than 80% of your league games against teams that aren't.

[Brussels Saint]

"Hunter and his 50-strong development staff seek to shape the person as well as the player."

 

***** a duck!

[TopGun]

"Hunter and his 50-strong development staff seek to shape the person as well as the player."

 

***** a duck!

 

Dinner ladies with whistles!

[adrian lord]

Loved the 'battling 90's'. The low point was the failure to appoint Hoddle in 2004 and our subsequent slow decline.

 

It wasn't so slow! Not sure Hoddle and Eileen would have saved us either...

[Saint86]

They've flourished for a team finishing mid-table but did they play better than their top4 counterparts? Shaw vs Azpilicueta/Clichy/Enrique/Gibbs. Chambers v Ivanovic/Zabaleta/Johnson/Sagna. None of our stars that left for bigger clubs have flourished this year.

Our team this year is outperforming last year so far (early days I know) and it's predominantly made up of older signed players, not young academy players. In fact Koeman's favourite XI features 0 academy players with the youngest being Mane (22).

 

JWP was a regular until he got injured.... And your argument above is why the board were so non plussed about selling this summer. You have to ship them out whilst you can still get good money for them as well as to allow the next batch through.

 

Expect it to happen to a fair few players as they reach 27-30 years old tbh.

[Give it to Ron]

Loved the 'battling 90's'. The low point was the failure to appoint Hoddle in 2004 and our subsequent slow decline.

 

slow decline...hahahahahah feed the troll

[Sevvy]

Brilliant read that, Cheers

[vin]

There's a little piece in this article on the beeb about Malcolm Frame (our sports psychologist) and the importance of developing the emotional intelligence of young players. Seems to be working - we do seem to produce well rounded individuals.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29647841

 

Oh, and Simon Clifford is mentioned as well....

[david in sweden]

Yes indeed. What I find slightly puzzling is that we seem to be the only club doing this.

 

I think it may be that we are the only club doing it ......with any degree of success.........

[Ludwig]

We really have got some very intelligent people running the club and academy. It is a fantastic club to support these days, I became a fan on 1st May 1976 aged 9, mesmerised by the Cup Final.

 

Glory hunter.

[david in sweden]

Whilst we all marvel at the success of our Academy (to the detriment of many others) it does seem puzzling and although " The Southampton Way " sounds a bit mysterious to some, and "corny" to others, from time to time small cameos come out from interviews....that throw a little more light on the subject (like recent Les Reed presentation which was videoed...(if you didn't see it look back it's worthwhile)

 

....but I can recall an interview with Rupert Lowe...who was credited (by some) with developing the structure of the original Academy, was asked the banal question by a journalist in an interview.... ........................." where we found all these footballing talents ...when no-one else could..." he replied...

 

"we are not looking for footballing skill (in a very young player)...we look for intelligence and athleticism....the rest... we can teach ".. (the more I think about this, the more common sense it makes).

 

(perhaps the difference between those young footballing talents who can pass a lot of GCSE's ...and those who ask.... what do the initials stand for?)

Edited 31 October, 2014 by david in sweden

[Give it to Ron]

50 staff for All the academy teams going from u6/7 up to u 21s