hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Not everything is left vs right Hypo. Do try and see that. This message was brought to you by the Patronising Leftie Message Board Post generator. Odd then. The only ones playing this down are those who are left on the political spectrum from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Charismatic churches, particularly those that insist that everyone can be a leader and that they should all recruit n people. Be especially wary of churches that use cellular structures to achieve rapid growth. So is the alpha course requiring all those who sign up to donate 10% of their wealth to churches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 I have to say, VFTT aside, I am shocked at the response of the lefties on this forum. it is a political event, not a religious one. There is no requirement or justification for segregation. How anyone can defend or justify it, is beyond me. Youre either for equality or you're not. Only a complete hypocrite picks and chooses when it suits them. unless of course anyone can enlighten me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Isn't it just a Christian course. And isn't 10% just tithing? Quite like the thought of speaking in tongues though That was my impression. I know Christians who give away 10% of their wealth but it goes to charities. Very honourable it is too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Interesting that it's the lefties trying to play this down. If this had happened to the Tories or ukip then I'm sure they would be reacting the same way... Really? Says more about Islam than any of the parties - and even then, not sure what some outdated pageantry really says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Really? Says more about Islam than any of the parties - and even then, not sure what some outdated pageantry really says. It's seemingly something that labour endorse. What other conclusion can be drawn when they seemingly see nothing wrong with this sort of segregation? Segregation like this is always wrong in arenas like this and should be tackled every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 I have to say, VFTT aside, I am shocked at the response of the lefties on this forum. it is a political event, not a religious one. There is no requirement or justification for segregation. How anyone can defend or justify it, is beyond me. Youre either for equality or you're not. Only a complete hypocrite picks and chooses when it suits them. unless of course anyone can enlighten me... As shurlock points out, it's not really a party thing. As he doesn't point out, I reckon it's more of a white fright thing. We've got countless examples of segregation in our own society that is practiced with the best of intentions. Many independent or religious schools segregate because they believe that a single sex classroom offers less distraction for the messages they are trying to convey. Incidentally, that's the reason Christian charismatic churches love it too, except that is more about control than education. I don't think I have EVER seen you moan about segregated schools. Why, when people segregate to show a bit of respect to your fellow Britons' traditions, is that such a problem when segregated schools, a much longer and arguably more damaging form of segregation, are okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 (edited) As shurlock points out, it's not really a party thing. As he doesn't point out, I reckon it's more of a white fright thing. We've got countless examples of segregation in our own society that is practiced with the best of intentions. Many independent or religious schools segregate because they believe that a single sex classroom offers less distraction for the messages they are trying to convey. Incidentally, that's the reason Christian charismatic churches love it too, except that is more about control than education. I don't think I have EVER seen you moan about segregated schools. Why, when people segregate to show a bit of respect to your fellow Britons' traditions, is that such a problem when segregated schools, a much longer and arguably more damaging form of segregation, are okay? Completely different. I went to an all boys school. I would have preferred a mixed school, but I was a child. That was the choice of my parents. Some may argue segregation in schools helps learning, some may not. I personally feel that segregation, in my experience, was not a good thing. But the big difference here is that neither sex is deliberately disadvantaged and treated like a second class citizen, when compared to the other. It also involves children who are under the guardianship of their parents, but once they are adult, segregation is not forced upon them, unless of course you'll be telling me that having separate male and female toilets shows that sexism is engrained in our culture Edited 4 May, 2015 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 (edited) It's seemingly something that labour endorse. What other conclusion can be drawn when they seemingly see nothing wrong with this sort of segregation? Segregation like this is always wrong in arenas like this and should be tackled every time. Behave with the 'should be tackled every time' clichés Any more hyperbole and you'll make sound it like apartheid South Africa or a public stoning. Have you actually been to something like this or canvassed attendants views? Probably not. You and I might find the practice utterly daft; but if you had -and I have- you would realise that many readily consent to it -and more pertinently, do not give a flying f**k about it -let alone think of it as an encroachment of their personhood or fundamental liberties, as bien-pensants attempt to dress it up. Frothing on about segregation, as if it's an all-encompassing trump card, doesn't change that. As I say, it's mock outrage, engineered by people who know next to nothing about those who theyre claiming to speak on behalf of. Edited 4 May, 2015 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Impressed with the Labour political broadcast with Coogan. Summed it up for me - nice and simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Behave with the 'should be tackled every time' clichés Any more hyperbole and you'll make sound it like apartheid South Africa or one of the main parties attended a public stoning. Have you actually been to something like this or canvassed attendants views? Probably not. You and I might find the practice utterly daft; but if you had -and I have- you would realise that many readily consent to it -and more pertinently, do not give a flying f**k about it -let alone think of it as an encroachment of their personhood or fundamental liberties, as the bien-pensants attempt to dress it up. Frothing on about segregation, as if it's all-encompassing trump card, doesn't change that. As I say, it's mock outrage, engineered by people who know next to nothing about those who theyre claiming to speak on behalf of. Complete and utter pony . Can't you just bring yourself to say its wrong . Fair play to VFTT , but apart from that the defence of this on here is pathetic . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Completely different. I went to an all boys school. I would have preferred a mixed school, but I was a child. That was the choice of my parents. Some may argue segregation in schools helps learning, some may not. I personally feel that segregation, in my experience, was not a good thing. But the big difference here is that neither sex is deliberately disadvantaged and treated like a second class citizen, when compared to the other. It also involves children who are under the guardianship of their parents, but once they are adult, segregation is not forced upon them, unless of course you'll be telling me that having separate male and female toilets shows that sexism is engrained in our culture Oh, so segregation is a terrible thing except for when it is completely different and within our cultural norms. You could argue that both sexes are deliberately disadvantaged in a single sex school system, depending on what your outcomes are. You're a case in point. You didn't get your preference; it wasn't your choice. Depending on what you wanted out of a mixed school, you may have been deliberately disadvantaged. And adulthood is the end of deliberate segregation, is it? Tell me then, why don't we have a leggy ample-chested blonde as our number nine? That's adult segregation, that is. Sack the board. As I said before, white fright backed up with easily defeatable sh!te. You're losing your sh!t over a rally that took place over a few hours, producing a post so incoherent and in conflict with itself, that your second paragraph is pretty much destroyed by your opener. The reality is that there are often reasons to segregate, from sport, to education that nobody has complained about before, and are being described as different now. Worst case scenario is that somehow these people were coerced into separating on gender lines. Having been to my fair share of lefty meetings, I'd say it's probably more likely to be something suggested out of respect for those that care about those sort of things, and carried because people either liked the idea or didn't give a toss either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Behave with the 'should be tackled every time' clichés Any more hyperbole and you'll make sound it like apartheid South Africa or one of the main parties attended a public stoning. Have you actually been to something like this or canvassed attendants views? Probably not. You and I might find the practice utterly daft; but if you had -and I have- you would realise that many readily consent to it -and more pertinently, do not give a flying f**k about it -let alone see it as an encroachment of their personhood or fundamental liberties. Frothing on about segregation, as if it's all-encompassing trump card, doesn't change that. As I say, it's mock outrage, engineered by people who know next to nothing about those who theyre claiming to speak on behalf of. Shurlock's nailed it here. Funny I don't remember any threads ever in more than a decade, or any significant discussion about something that happens at hundreds of weddings, gatherings, functions all over the country every week. Delighted to see this cause now seems to be awfully important to Ukippers and I look forward to Lord Duckhunter and the rest of the freedom fighters doing all they can to stamp it out. You fight for them civil liberties sisters - I'm with ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Shurlock's nailed it here. Funny I don't remember any threads ever in more than a decade, or any significant discussion about something that happens at hundreds of weddings, gatherings, functions all over the country every week. Delighted to see this cause now seems to be awfully important to Ukippers and I look forward to Lord Duckhunter and the rest of the freedom fighters doing all they can to stamp it out. You fight for them civil liberties sisters - I'm with ya. Sadoldgit is going to be confused here with the Hypo thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Lordy. You're still going there? I didn't address your point because I don't remember it happening at the LU party conference. The entire thing is up on the Internet, start to finish. You'll have to link the part where that was discussed, proposed and passed as a motion. I think you'll have a hard time, personally. I don't recall anything being discussed on the subject. The one motion we voted for that was even in that ballpark was whether we should (as a party) support arming the Kurds, voted down quite strenuously, as I recall. Produce the goods Verbal. Let's see the bit where LU was praising ISIS. Let's see the part where I say all UK voters are morons. We won't, of course, because you are a moronic liar. Okay, chapter and tedious verse: First, here’s a video of the actual vote which included the motion on ISIS being a “progressive force”. It’s hard to make out what’s going on because it is such an evident shambles. Honestly, if it was a brewery and you were locked in there for a week you’d come out stone cold sober. This is evidently the kind of ‘party’ that that would have made Life of Brian even funnier. I especially love the irony of calling a sub-Trotskyist group of confused and embittered socialist splitters “Left Unity”. And here’s the motion itself, in all its weird, incomprehensible, ignorant glory. Despite the atrocities it has carried out and its attack on the Kurds, IS nevertheless represents an attempt to break fundamentally with the structure of religiously and ethnically divided nation states imposed on the region by Britain and France at the end of the First World War… Unlike a continuation of the framework of western-imposed nation states, it therefore, theoretically, has progressive potential. The Caliphate represents an alternative political vision that is gathering support amongst Muslims across the Muslim world because… it stands for replacing the brutal regimes in which they live with a political system based on Islam that sets up an accountable executive, an organised judiciary, representative consultation, inal motions and amendments for the rule of law and citizenship; such a state could only be a stabilising force for the region and the European Left has to acknowledge and accept the widespread call for a Caliphate among Muslims as valid and an authentic expression of their emancipatory, anti-imperialist aspirations. The source of the quote you can find here, in the beyond comically dull ‘proceedings’ of the wonderful event you so enthusiastically attended. You have to wade all the way to page 41 if it doesn't sap the will to live. http://leftunity.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/lumotions-nov2014-final.pdf So the question is: if you had no idea this motion was voted on, did you accidentally vote YES to it? Is it possible that you unknowingly voted for ISIS? You wouldn’t have known anything about it – just like the other sad individuals in the video, all of whom seem lost and fatally detached even from a world of joined-up sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 (edited) Complete and utter pony . Can't you just bring yourself to say its wrong . Fair play to VFTT , but apart from that the defence of this on here is pathetic . Ive already said I personally think it's daft and outdated; but I've made my position clear, one that wouldn't change if it was Labour, Conservative, UKIP or any other party. Not sure why you mention VFTT - unless you're tedious enough to think it's all politically motivated. Btw, have you ever been to one of these events or canvassed attendants views? You need to get and see the world. Edited 4 May, 2015 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 The forum excelling at mock outrage once again **** funny isn't it. If a bunch of Muslims want to sit men on one side, women on the other who gives a sh!t? Just shows how retarded Islam is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 (edited) And adulthood is the end of deliberate segregation, is it? Tell me then, why don't we have a leggy ample-chested blonde as our number nine? That's adult segregation, that is. Sack the board.. its funny you say that. I take my 10 year old twin girls to 9 or 10 games a season. One of them posed the question as to why there are no female players. I had no response. Logic dictates, that if they are good enough to play. They should play. That's what I believe and have been trying to get her into the school team, without much success. She can play, but is in effect discriminated against. As for capability, when you take Miss Massey, she puts many male officials to shame. So there is segregation, as you say, but that still does not make it right. out of interest, do you support male only golf clubs? Edited 4 May, 2015 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Behave with the 'should be tackled every time' clichés Any more hyperbole and you'll make sound it like apartheid South Africa or a public stoning. Have you actually been to something like this or canvassed attendants views? Probably not. You and I might find the practice utterly daft; but if you had -and I have- you would realise that many readily consent to it -and more pertinently, do not give a flying f**k about it -let alone think of it as an encroachment of their personhood or fundamental liberties, as bien-pensants attempt to dress it up. Frothing on about segregation, as if it's an all-encompassing trump card, doesn't change that. As I say, it's mock outrage, engineered by people who know next to nothing about those who theyre claiming to speak on behalf of. Probably not? Erm yes I have. Think I've mentioned on here before that my other half has relatives from Iraq including her father so yeah I've seen this sort of segregation and she's thankful every day that her father is liberal minded enough not to treat women like second class citizens unlike her uncle and aunt. I won't hold out much hope for an apology for your lazy assumptions though, lefties don't like to admit they were hopelessly wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1576 Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 That's what I believe and have been trying to get her into the school team, without much success. She can play, but is in effect discriminated against. I bet she plays in the style of Terry Hurlock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 I bet she plays in the style of Terry Hurlock? Thats why the boys don't let her play how ow are the shins BTW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 **** funny isn't it. If a bunch of Muslims want to sit men on one side, women on the other who gives a sh!t? Just shows how retarded Islam is. Because it's a symptom of greater discrimination and inequality within Muslim society. The majority of Muslims are peace loving, friendly and hospitable who treat others equally but there is a group who do treat women as second class, who force them to marry people they don't know against their will and who don't think domestic abuse by husbands is wrong. Yes segregation isn't the same as those abhorrent views but it's a smaller part of a larger problem imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 its funny you say that. I take my 10 year old twin girls to 9 or 10 games a season. One of them posed the question as to why there are no female players. I had no response. Logic dictates, that if they are good enough to play. They should play. That's what I believe and have been trying to get her into the school team, without much success. She can play, but is in effect discriminated against. As for capability, when you take Miss Massey, she puts many male officials to shame. So there is segregation, as you say, but that still does not make it right. out of interest, do you support male only golf clubs? Well really it's a biological thing more than anything else I would imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 (edited) Probably not? Erm yes I have. Think I've mentioned on here before that my other half has relatives from Iraq including her father so yeah I've seen this sort of segregation and she's thankful every day that her father is liberal minded enough not to treat women like second class citizens unlike her uncle and aunt. I won't hold out much hope for an apology for your lazy assumptions though, lefties don't like to admit they were hopelessly wrong... Well done for generalising from a single case, though that's probably more than dear old duckhunter. Wont ask whether you're mistakenly conflating this one practice with segregation across the board (which is a battle worth fighting). Will leave that till another day, though you concede as much above. Suffice to say it's hard to take you seriously when you still labour under the assumption that this is all politically motivated. As for lazy assumptions, it is rather odd that I've worked for the Tories in the past - some of whom I have a good deal of respect for. HTH Edited 4 May, 2015 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Because it's a symptom of greater discrimination and inequality within Muslim society. The majority of Muslims are peace loving, friendly and hospitable who treat others equally but there is a group who do treat women as second class, who force them to marry people they don't know against their will and who don't think domestic abuse by husbands is wrong. Yes segregation isn't the same as those abhorrent views but it's a smaller part of a larger problem imo. You think all of the above only applies to Muslim society? Did you not read the link I posted earlier about Jewish people? And our own culture isn't exactly beyond reproach now, is it? (* thinks some golf clubs, some Rotary clubs, the Masons probably) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Well really it's a biological thing more than anything else I would imagine. when it comes to officials, biology doesn't come into it. But if ability is equal, then there is no reason why not IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 (edited) Okay, chapter and tedious verse: First, here’s a video of the actual vote which included the motion on ISIS being a “progressive force”. It’s hard to make out what’s going on because it is such an evident shambles. Honestly, if it was a brewery and you were locked in there for a week you’d come out stone cold sober. This is evidently the kind of ‘party’ that that would have made Life of Brian even funnier. I especially love the irony of calling a sub-Trotskyist group of confused and embittered socialist splitters “Left Unity”. And here’s the motion itself, in all its weird, incomprehensible, ignorant glory. The source of the quote you can find here, in the beyond comically dull ‘proceedings’ of the wonderful event you so enthusiastically attended. You have to wade all the way to page 41 if it doesn't sap the will to live. http://leftunity.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/lumotions-nov2014-final.pdf So the question is: if you had no idea this motion was voted on, did you accidentally vote YES to it? Is it possible that you unknowingly voted for ISIS? You wouldn’t have known anything about it – just like the other sad individuals in the video, all of whom seem lost and fatally detached even from a world of joined-up sentences. I thought the LU party conference was a decent enough day, if somewhat afflicted by all the usual problems one sees when the Left tries to organise, including many of the Life of Brian scenarios you mention. At no stage could I ever hope to be an apologist for such a broad spectrum of views from the political left. Things started badly. Before any last minute agenda items could even be started, there were people wanting to change the format of the conference itself. Then followed a series of last minute inclusions to the agenda, none of which really helped to get things moving. We didn't get close to getting all the way through the agenda, and too much stuff ended up going to committee. Throughout, a group previously affiliated with LU but which had recently taken the hump with the party, shamelessly abstained on almost every motion, including one in which the party was trying to take a position on child trafficking. Far too much time was wasted on internal party discipline, and how that would work moving forward, following a couple of acrimonious disputes up North. I can tell you all this, because you can watch it yourself. I haven't been pushing Left Unity on here one iota. There's no point; they are standing in around three seats, I believe. It is what it is. Personally, I prefer the transparent approach. People have no illusions, can differ wildly one some points yet find common ground on others. I've met and seen some very intelligent people through my dealings with LU. I'm not sure why some members of LU suggesting ISIS as a progressive force is such big news. Wasn't our own government saying exactly that when they were called the Free Syrian Army, the plucky Rebels fighting Assad's evil empire? Hague was in there like swimwear. Thanks for the video. I remember it now. F**king shambles. Edited 4 May, 2015 by pap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 You think all of the above only applies to Muslim society? Did you not read the link I posted earlier about Jewish people? And our own culture isn't exactly beyond reproach now, is it? (* thinks some golf clubs, some Rotary clubs, the Masons probably) Where did I say it did? I didn't mention any other cultures or religions because I wasn't referring to them and I don't think it's relevant to this discussion. I've already said that segregation at this type of event is wrong and that would be the case whatever religion or culture they were from and whatever politicians they were speaking to. Muslim society dies have a particular problem in some areas of this from what I have experienced, ranging from mild forms of bullying to forced marriages etc. If the "AND" response is true then that's very disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 when it comes to officials, biology doesn't come into it. But if ability is equal, then there is no reason why not IMO Sorry I thought you were talking about playing. Officials, then yes I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Because it's a symptom of greater discrimination and inequality within Muslim society. The majority of Muslims are peace loving, friendly and hospitable who treat others equally but there is a group who do treat women as second class, who force them to marry people they don't know against their will and who don't think domestic abuse by husbands is wrong. Yes segregation isn't the same as those abhorrent views but it's a smaller part of a larger problem imo. I agree, but having men sit one side, women the other is not discriminating against anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 I agree, but having men sit one side, women the other is not discriminating against anyone. Pretty sure I explained what it represents already. For me it is offensive in the same way the burkha is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Pretty sure I explained what it represents already. For me it is offensive in the same way the burkha is. I just think it's a bit weird and backward. It appears Labour held the event in an Islamic community centre, if they wanted it segregated I don't see anything wrong with Labour letting them, it's their centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 I just think it's a bit weird and backward. It appears Labour held the event in an Islamic community centre, if they wanted it segregated I don't see anything wrong with Labour letting them, it's their centre. You obviously haven't seen the effects of these attitudes first hand then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 (edited) You obviously haven't seen the effects of these attitudes first hand then. I have -and think you're talking s**t. Why practices thousands of miles away in Iraq or whatever is your pet, little reference point should illuminate attitudes in provincial community centres, mosques, synagogues etc up and down the country is beyond me. Edited 4 May, 2015 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 (edited) I have -and think you're talking s**t. Why practices thousands of miles away in Iraq or whatever is your pet, little reference point should illuminate attitudes in provincial community centres, mosques and synagogues up and down the country is beyond me. Wrong again. These people are from Iraq but now live in the UK. Have spoken to many of them including other friends and acquaintances, been to mosques etc and seen this sort of discrimination first hand. Didn't mention my experience dealing with this sort of thing at work either. What extensive experience do you have then to make you oh so enlightened? Edited 4 May, 2015 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 (edited) Wrong again. These people are from Iraq but now live in the UK. Have spoken to many of them including other friends and acquaintances, been to mosques etc and seen this sort of discrimination first hand. Sounds like you're making things up as you go along, old chum Nobody is denying that discrimination exists. It's whether daft and outdated practices such as differential seating arrangements etc are systematic proof of deeper prejudices and flagrant mistreatment of women or other groups. If any such relationship exists -and I've never seen it- it's nowhere near as strong as you and your frothing loons are claiming as you play party politics, very, very badly. Edited 4 May, 2015 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Sounds like you're making things up as you go along, old chum Nobody is denying that discrimination exists. It's whether daft and outdated practices such as differential seating arrangements etc are systematic proof of deeper prejudices and flagrant mistreatment of women or other groups. If any such relationship exists, it's nowhere near as strong as you and your frothing, loons are trying to claim as you play party politics, very, very badly. Nonsense. The clear sign of someone scrabbling is to suggest that the other person is making it up. It makes you seem desperate tbh and I don't really think you have any grounds to claim that. Suffice to say I disagree with you about a link but you can pretend I'm playing party politics if it makes you feel better about your poor argument. Unfortunately I had more experience of this discrimination thing than you thought and it blew up in your face a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 You obviously haven't seen the effects of these attitudes first hand then. So should Labour refuse to hold a meeting if one of the audience is wearing a burka? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 (edited) Nonsense. The clear sign of someone scrabbling is to suggest that the other person is making it up. It makes you seem desperate tbh and I don't really think you have any grounds to claim that. Suffice to say I disagree with you about a link but you can pretend I'm playing party politics if it makes you feel better about your poor argument. Unfortunately I had more experience of this discrimination thing than you thought and it blew up in your face a bit. Not at all. You just continue to avoid the issue by blurting on about segregation and discrimation in the abstract. Thats why you appear to be making things up. Spare us the kitchen sink. Edited 4 May, 2015 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 (edited) So should Labour refuse to hold a meeting if one of the audience is wearing a burka? The use of the burqa is a complex one. Unfortunately it isn't illegal in public yet (though imo it should be.) so would be difficult to enforce. I certainly would like to see segregation in public questioned and challenged though. Edited 4 May, 2015 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 The use of the burkha is a complex one. Unfortunately it isn't illegal in public yet (though imo it should be.) so would be difficult to enforce. I certainly would like to see segregation in public questioned and challenged though. Does the same apply to English same sex schools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Does the same apply to English same sex schools? I'm not sure I know enough about the arguments for and against them. Can't say I've seen fgm, forced marriage etc linked to this type of discrimination though like you find in some other cultures. Happy to be proven wrong though, as I said I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 May, 2015 Author Share Posted 4 May, 2015 (edited) The Independent have come out in support of another Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Didn't see that one coming as their social media presence (at least) is predominantly anti-Tory. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/in-defence-of-liberal-democracy-10224221.html A hung parliament is certain this week. For all his talk of no deals with the SNP, Miliband is bound to rely on that party to get his legislative programme through. This would be a disaster for the country, unleashing justified fury in England at the decisive influence of MPs who – unlike this title – do not wish the Union to exist. If that were to be the case while Labour were the second biggest party either in terms of vote share, or seats – or both – how could Labour govern with authority? They could not. Any partnership between Labour and the SNP will harm Britain’s fragile democracy. For all its faults, another Lib-Con Coalition would both prolong recovery and give our kingdom a better chance of continued existence. This title casts no vote. But we prize strong, effective government, consider nationalism guilty until proven innocent, and say that if the present Coalition is to get another chance, we hope it is much less conservative, and much more liberal. Edited 4 May, 2015 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 Does the same apply to English same sex schools? yep, but what hope do you have to start when those at the top endorse this sort of crap I still have not seen BTF comments on if she approves of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 The Independent have come out in support of another Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Didn't see that one coming as their social media presence (at least) is predominantly anti-Tory. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/in-defence-of-liberal-democracy-10224221.html The Indie generally supports the lib dems although the tone of the piece is a little surprising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 The Independent have come out in support of another Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Didn't see that one coming as their social media presence (at least) is predominantly anti-Tory. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/in-defence-of-liberal-democracy-10224221.html That's exactly what the SNP want. A Tory England and SNP dominated Scotland would be way more divisive IMO, England almost all right wing, Scotland far left, you might as well just split the UK up along the natural border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 May, 2015 Author Share Posted 4 May, 2015 That's exactly what the SNP want Indeed. I've said all along that the SNP, in public, are saying they want to work with Labour when what they really want is for the Tories to stay in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 4 May, 2015 Share Posted 4 May, 2015 The Independent have come out in support of another Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Didn't see that one coming as their social media presence (at least) is predominantly anti-Tory. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/in-defence-of-liberal-democracy-10224221.html The Russian oligarch owner has looked at his bank balance and then the mansion tax and 50% income tax and come to the independent conclusion he, sorry the country, would be better off with another Tory / Lib Dem coalition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 5 May, 2015 Share Posted 5 May, 2015 The Independent have come out in support of another Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Didn't see that one coming as their social media presence (at least) is predominantly anti-Tory. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/in-defence-of-liberal-democracy-10224221.html I fear The 60,000 'free thinkers' who buy it every day may never forgive them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 5 May, 2015 Share Posted 5 May, 2015 I fear The 60,000 'free thinkers' who buy it every day may never forgive them Is that all? As for free-thinking, the Indy's readership seems far to the right of the politics of the paper. A recent example was an article comprehensively debunking the anti-Semitic myth that Nathan Rothschild built his vast wealth on the back of Wellington's victory at the Battle of Waterloo. The article's comments section was a study in vicious anti-Semitism. To illustrate, with a neat piece of anachronistic 'Zionist' window dressing: My heart bleeds for these parasitic speculators that always profited from calamities and downturns which, in most cases, they promoted. Such profiteering can be directly blamed for dire situation in which we find ourselves today and that directly or indirectly affects all of us. World domination has always been the goal of this family of Zionists. And this one is clearly from someone who's 'special': Cameron is Jewish, Miliband is Jewish, Clegg is Jewish. All three have openly declared their loyalty to Israel. 0.5% of the UK population is Jewish. Hell effing O! So in going for more of the political same, the paper is, if anything, pandering to the baser instincts of its readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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