bridge too far Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Snap ICM poll: Cameron 44% Milliband 38% Clegg 19% Is this a poll on who did best tonight? If so, I'm surprised because I thought Clegg did better than that!
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 where have I said that? just saying that many on zero-hour contracts do so at their choosing and/or are happy with it. And I'm trying to explain to you that that's irrelevant when others are suffering because employers are misusing them. And if people like them then they can still use them under labour's plans
Batman Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 And I'm trying to explain to you that that's irrelevant when others are suffering because employers are misusing them. And if people like them then they can still use them under labour's plans Under labours plans, there will be a higher turn around of staff at 11 weeks. Many of these jobs are hardly highly trained by an employer
Jonnyboy Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Clegg wouldve made quite a good labour leader. Seemed to me he was hinting he'd happily switch sides and form a coalition with Labour if he got the chance.
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Under labours plans, there will be a higher turn around of staff at 11 weeks. Many of these jobs are hardly highly trained by an employer So what's your proposal to help people who are stuck on these contracts?
hypochondriac Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Clegg wouldve made quite a good labour leader. Seemed to me he was hinting he'd happily switch sides and form a coalition with Labour if he got the chance. Indeed he would have. They would probably get an outright majority if that were the case.
CB Saint Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 And I'm trying to explain to you that that's irrelevant when others are suffering because employers are misusing them. And if people like them then they can still use them under labour's plans unfortunately, in my experience when the government legislate, you end up with a sledge hammer to crack a nut. Yes, they will resolve the problem at face value, but unfortunately they don't have the wit to wonder what the industry they have targeted will do to get around it, because they will.
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 unfortunately, in my experience when the government legislate, you end up with a sledge hammer to crack a nut. Yes, they will resolve the problem at face value, but unfortunately they don't have the wit to wonder what the industry they have targeted will do to get around it, because they will. I agree that can be the case but it's just not acceptable to me to have a defeatist attitude. Government has done many good things for people along with the failures, we have to try, and if there are adverse effects then we refine the policy
badgerx16 Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Political compass thingy : -6 -6 As for the leader's 'Question Time', I didn't watch it, and probably most of the electorate didn't either, so I doubt it will actually have swayed anybody's voting plans.
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 I mean you have to say that working conditions are better now than 100 years ago - government made that happen
Lord Duckhunter Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 So what's your proposal to help people who are stuck on these contracts? Its not the Governments job to dictate to employers how many hours they should give their staff.
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Its not the Governments job to dictate to employers how many hours they should give their staff. In your opinion
bridge too far Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Its not the Governments job to dictate to employers how many hours they should give their staff. But it IS the government's job to ensure that people aren't exploited and that tax payers aren't subsidising employers by having to underwrite wages with Working Tax Credits etc.
Batman Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Political compass thingy : -6 -6 As for the leader's 'Question Time', I didn't watch it, and probably most of the electorate didn't either, so I doubt it will actually have swayed anybody's voting plans. You missed a bit of a mare from milliband. By far his worst performance of any respect in these things.
Coxford_lou Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Look at all the extreme lefties being embarrassed by their results. Be proud of who you are. Lol. Nice try Hypes. But seriously, I think a bunch of American right wing Christian Conservatives wrote the questions for this.
buctootim Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Its not the Governments job to dictate to employers how many hours they should give their staff. Lers go back to 6.5 days pw with a full day off once a month. Market forces innit.
Batman Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Lers go back to 6.5 days pw with a full day off once a month. Market forces innit. Done far worse than that
buctootim Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Done far worse than that For 4 months - and then 3 full months off. Not quite the same.
Batman Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 For 4 months - and then 3 full months off. Not quite the same. What on earth are you on about. Sign me up for that
hypochondriac Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Lol. Nice try Hypes. But seriously, I think a bunch of American right wing Christian Conservatives wrote the questions for this. I like you. In a way.
CB Saint Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 I agree that can be the case but it's just not acceptable to me to have a defeatist attitude. Government has done many good things for people along with the failures, we have to try, and if there are adverse effects then we refine the policy The thing is they rarely change the legislation because they have moved on to the the next shiny thing. Zero hours contracts work when used responsibly, most of us would accept that. What government needs to do is target the specific abuses ie you cannot deny someone for working for another business unless you are prepared to guarantee a fixed number of hours per week. if you introduce any legislation, do it from day 1. Otherwise you create a finite lifespan for the job. and hire someone from the industry to sanity check the rules and try to beat them. You will get rid of the most obvious loopholes
Lord Duckhunter Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 But it IS the government's job to ensure that people aren't exploited and that tax payers aren't subsidising employers by having to underwrite wages with Working Tax Credits etc. Agree 100% .
Jonnyboy Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Its not the Governments job to dictate to employers how many hours they should give their staff. It is if the people vote for them to do that.
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Lers go back to 6.5 days pw with a full day off once a month. Market forces innit. I think we're really restricting the free market by not allowing young children to work. Sure some of them don't like it, but others do and why should we deny them that?
bridge too far Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 I think we're really restricting the free market by not allowing young children to work. Sure some of them don't like it, but others do and why should we deny them that? Indeed, my 6 yo grandson was only saying yesterday how he wished he could go up chimneys or collect the debris from underneath the weaving machines
buctootim Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 I think we're really restricting the free market by not allowing young children to work. Sure some of them don't like it, but others do and why should we deny them that? Fire at will, no notice no reason is good too. Works wonders for civil society in the US.
whelk Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Just lost the election when he slipped off the stage. Caused by David Cameron's sweat
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 A few exceptions aside, the history of conservatism is one of opposing improvments to worker rights and then accepting them a few years later when the sky hasn't fallen in. The minimum wage being a case in point
Lord Duckhunter Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Lers go back to 6.5 days pw with a full day off once a month. Market forces innit. What on earth are you on about ? Working too many hours is unhealthy , not to mention dangerous in a H&S way. However , what on earth has it got to do with Government when talking about hours that are deemed safe ? Are 1 hour contracts ok , what about 10 hours or 12 . If I have a business that demands flexibility and I am completely honest about the hours , terms , conditions . If I pay above the minimum wage and conform to Government working directives in respect of H&S . What the **** has it to do with Government ?
Lord Duckhunter Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 A few exceptions aside, the history of conservatism is one of opposing improvments to worker rights and then accepting them a few years later when the sky hasn't fallen in. The minimum wage being a case in point The minimum wage is ******** . It is set so low that it doesn't make a blind bit of difference . Had it been set at a rate that meant tax credits were abolished , it WOULD cost jobs .
Whitey Grandad Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 This forum is great! We've just got back home and in two minutes I can skim through a complete summary of Question Time without having to watch it Wake me up when the election is over.
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 The minimum wage is ******** . It is set so low that it doesn't make a blind bit of difference . Had it been set at a rate that meant tax credits were abolished , it WOULD cost jobs .
SuperMikey Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Ssssh whelk, you're not supposed to know that! Labour is evil and responsible for all the bad things like running out of toilet paper and baby unicorns dying and stuff. Tories float in the breeze on policy like an empty plastic bag.
pap Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 It's really amazing that Alexander has been able to keep his mouth zipped up about these "proposals" from fully three years ago and now that his party is facing a catastrophe in the election (and there is presumably the possibility that he himself could lose his seat to the SNP), he takes a stab at predicting that there will be these cuts in Child Benefit/Child Tax Credits. Does he have any actual evidence that this will happen, that it is actually policy rather than just an option that was discussed some time ago? No, I thought not. Somewhat missing the point, me ol' fruit and nut. The cuts have been pretty savage already, with little consideration as to how they'll affect the people who bear the brunt of them. One can only imagine that more people will end up destitute as a result of further cuts, leading to more food banks, suicides and the like. At the same time, they're proposing that we allow people to skip inheritance tax on properties of up to 2million. Completely inhumane policy making. But hey, the really important issue here is Danny Alexander's duplicity, right?
pap Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Exactly, well said. I'm travelling 230 miles on Thursday to cast my vote in my constituency, and I always enjoy the experience. You do realise, though, that there are some geniuses (only a few would stoop so low) who advocate not voting at all, and who regard all British voters as 'morons' and some of them (for voting the wrong way) as complicit in murder. Yes, really. Just as he should realise that there are some bitter old tarts that purposefully misrepresent what others have said, yet cry like b!tches when someone puts a name to the lies.
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Somewhat missing the point, me ol' fruit and nut. The cuts have been pretty savage already, with little consideration as to how they'll affect the people who bear the brunt of them. One can only imagine that more people will end up destitute as a result of further cuts, leading to more food banks, suicides and the like. At the same time, they're proposing that we allow people to skip inheritance tax on properties of up to 2million. Completely inhumane policy making. But hey, the really important issue here is Danny Alexander's duplicity, right? Nah but pap, if these people just work harder they'll be alright. Which is why we should also make it so that you can get loads of money from a dead relative for no reason. These two things absolutely go hand in hand and are in no way contradictory. Obviously. In the same way my grandad paying taxes makes me more entitled to not live in poverty 'cause I was born on this rock and not another. All about equality of opportunity, innit.
pap Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 On the political scale, I'm :- Economic Left/Right -7.63 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -5.69
Whitey Grandad Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Nah but pap, if these people just work harder they'll be alright. Which is why we should also make it so that you can get loads of money from a dead relative for no reason. These two things absolutely go hand in hand and are in no way contradictory. Obviously. In the same way my grandad paying taxes makes me more entitled to not live in poverty 'cause I was born on this rock and not another. All about equality of opportunity, innit. That 'dead relative's money' is theirs to do with how they wish. If you want to steal it for yourself or anybody else why don't you get a gun and go and do it now? Inheritance tax is grave robbery, nothing else.
SuperMikey Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 That 'dead relative's money' is theirs to do with how they wish. If you want to steal it for yourself or anybody else why don't you get a gun and go and do it now? Inheritance tax is grave robbery, nothing else. You can't take it with you Whitey, you know that. Rather give a percentage of my cash when I die to the government than have my future kids spunk it up the wall on strippers and coke. Actually, on second thoughts..
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 That 'dead relative's money' is theirs to do with how they wish. If you want to steal it for yourself or anybody else why don't you get a gun and go and do it now? Inheritance tax is grave robbery, nothing else. Tell me how that reconciles with the people that defend inherited wealth as those that are all about equality of opportunity, and hard work being all that is needed to succeed? How is earning millions simply by being born into a wealthy family and that wealth being transferred to you hard work? And why emphasise dead relatives money, is that a controversial statement? That's exactly what inheritance is.
pap Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Tell me how that reconciles with the people that defend inherited wealth as those that are all about equality of opportunity, and hard work being all that is needed to succeed? How is earning millions simply by being born into a wealthy family and that wealth being transferred to you hard work? And why emphasise dead relatives money, is that a controversial statement? That's exactly what inheritance is. Tax is a huge part of the social contract. We pay income tax because we know that we'll get things like free education and healthcare out of the bargain. Corporations pay income tax because they get to operate in a decent market and enjoy a framework that makes it easy to do business, certainly in comparison to some of the race to the bottom countries that big corp is flocking to. I've mentioned this before, but our firm has an assembly facility in the Philippines. If you're sent out there, you travel from the airport with armed bodyguards. Same deal applies with going back and forth to work, and your evening options are "stay inside hotel complex". That's it. It's just not safe. Similarly, we provide a framework in which people can amass wealth and property without too much fear of it being stolen or smashed by the locals. Inheritance tax is part of the deal. If you want to see robbery, go to the Philippines without armed guards.
hutch Posted 1 May, 2015 Posted 1 May, 2015 Lers go back to 6.5 days pw with a full day off once a month. Market forces innit. Welcome to my world.
Saintandy666 Posted 1 May, 2015 Posted 1 May, 2015 Is this a poll on who did best tonight? If so, I'm surprised because I thought Clegg did better than that! You got to think about it from their voter base and also their personal popularity. 19% for Clegg is a nice improvement on all that, so he will be happy. (his and the lib dem ratings have risen during the campaign)
whelk Posted 1 May, 2015 Posted 1 May, 2015 Ssssh whelk, you're not supposed to know that! Labour is evil and responsible for all the bad things like running out of toilet paper and baby unicorns dying and stuff. Tories float in the breeze on policy like an empty plastic bag. Amazing how such a key point is conveniently ignored. It is like something out of Orwell
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 1 May, 2015 Posted 1 May, 2015 Tell me how that reconciles with the people that defend inherited wealth as those that are all about equality of opportunity, and hard work being all that is needed to succeed? How is earning millions simply by being born into a wealthy family and that wealth being transferred to you hard work? And why emphasise dead relatives money, is that a controversial statement? That's exactly what inheritance is. Amazes me that people can't see this
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 1 May, 2015 Posted 1 May, 2015 Amazes me that people can't see this People can see that, they just don't agree with it.
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 1 May, 2015 Posted 1 May, 2015 People can see that, they just don't agree with it. They can see their hypocrisy but they still don't agree with it? I understand that it's a powerful human instinct to want to pass wealth on to your children. But it's really not good for them or society. Everyone should have to work for their prosperity
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