Jonnyboy Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 so, not a good idea? No, I'd rather pay a little more income tax and know that my local services are functional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 29 April, 2015 Author Share Posted 29 April, 2015 No, I'd rather pay a little more income tax and know that my local services are functional. Assuming, of course, that the money is spent wisely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 I listened to Brand's diatribe to Red Ed about how the big corporations and bankers had their talons deeply embedded into the Tories. He wasn't going to get any rebuttal from Ed there. But the counter position, that the Trade Unions had their talons deeply imbedded into Labour might sit well with the two of them, but it doesn't with much of the electorate. Milliband tried hard to ingratiate himself with Brand by a series of glottal stops so that the Essex lads wouldn't think that he was as posh as he is. It is a common enough device to curry favour with somebody by establishing familiarity through common ground, but I look forward to hearing Milliband's efforts when he is interviewed by a broad Glaswegian Scot, a Geordie or somebody from Zummerzet. The trade unions are membership organisations paid for by ordinary people and with elected leaders. Tory donors are unelected rich people whose sole focus is making money for themselves and their shareholders. In not saying the unions always have it right but the two aren't really comparable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 No, I'd rather pay a little more income tax and know that my local services are functional. +1 I would sleep sounder at night having paid more tax if I knew that essential services were properly funded and people weren't being shafted out of disability benefits for the privilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 More evidence for Whitey Grandad http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/apr/29/election-2015-miliband-tory-12bn-welfare-cuts-russell-brand-interview-live#block-5540fbe3e4b090ea3d998578 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 No, I'd rather pay a little more income tax and know that my local services are functional. Indeed. less to spend on Amazon which just gets drained out if the system with fck all tax back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 That means nothing. If there was a rumour that Ed Milliband had been photographed with his flies open, Google searches would soar like that. I Googled the Brand/Miliband interview, so I'm afraid I'm partly culpable Yeah sure Lynton and the rest at CCHQ are ecstatic. Who looks at such metrics lets get Dave in a hard hat eating a pasty. And lose the tie Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 Indeed. less to spend on Amazon which just gets drained out if the system with fck all tax back. To my shame I'm as guilty as the next of buying cr*p I don't need on Amazon (it's worse after a few beers, lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 To my shame I'm as guilty as the next of buying cr*p I don't need on Amazon (it's worse after a few beers, lol). We all do I'm sure. Mind I have vowed not to ever use Sports Direct. And I haven't seen this weeks Dispatches yet which I have heard is not over glowing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 I follow loads of people I don't agree with . lefties are by far the worst for blocking me. I've been blocked by Owen Jones , Diane Abbott and that jack Monroe bird. Yet I didn't swear or insult them, with Abbott I just wrote that I preferred AJ to her on " This Week" . George Galloway is OK, but I'm working on it. I've seen a lot worse posted to Kippers & Tories, and even given Tories more clog and they've not blocked it. The only one is that weird Mensch women and she's pinko anyway. So my research is the more leftie the more thin skinned. LOL, or the more right wing don't think you are an irritating asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 Soooo according to the former governor of the bank of England..... (Another Tory myth blown apart) http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/dec/29/labour-government-not-responsible-crash-bank-england-governor-mervyn-king?CMP=share_btn_fb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 Danny Alexander exposes 'secret' Tory plans for £8bn in welfare cuts - http://t.co/D9smHg9TaH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 Soooo according to the former governor of the bank of England..... (Another Tory myth blown apart) http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/dec/29/labour-government-not-responsible-crash-bank-england-governor-mervyn-king?CMP=share_btn_fb Mervyn's obviously been reading this thread as I suggested the same thing a few pages back! Almost every country on the face of the planet was deeply affected by the crash so to suggest the blame lies entirely at the feet of Labour when a range of political parties and ideologies suffered similarly is a bit of a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 Mervyn's obviously been reading this thread as I suggested the same thing a few pages back! Almost every country on the face of the planet was deeply affected by the crash so to suggest the blame lies entirely at the feet of Labour when a range of political parties and ideologies suffered similarly is a bit of a stretch. Don't tell the tories that! That'll just be false as they're absolutely certain it's totally Labour's fault...well...They must be, they've been banging on about it for four years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 Danny Alexander exposes 'secret' Tory plans for £8bn in welfare cuts - http://t.co/D9smHg9TaH It's really amazing that Alexander has been able to keep his mouth zipped up about these "proposals" from fully three years ago and now that his party is facing a catastrophe in the election (and there is presumably the possibility that he himself could lose his seat to the SNP), he takes a stab at predicting that there will be these cuts in Child Benefit/Child Tax Credits. Does he have any actual evidence that this will happen, that it is actually policy rather than just an option that was discussed some time ago? No, I thought not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoPints Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 Worth mentioning the Tories supported the war as well. And also wanted to do the same to Syria if Miliband hadn't stepped in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 There is a lesson to be learn though; when the vast majority of the population are working class poor, you can't disproportionally punish them and award your rich, upper class chums as the Tories have been doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 It's really amazing that Alexander has been able to keep his mouth zipped up about these "proposals" from fully three years ago and now that his party is facing a catastrophe in the election (and there is presumably the possibility that he himself could lose his seat to the SNP), he takes a stab at predicting that there will be these cuts in Child Benefit/Child Tax Credits. Does he have any actual evidence that this will happen, that it is actually policy rather than just an option that was discussed some time ago? No, I thought not. If the Tories are not going to cut child benefit and tax credits they can pass a law saying they're not allowed to. Or something stupid like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Vote guys and gals.............there are millions around the world that would love to have the right to vote !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Bugger. I've had to put another brick under the left hand side of my laptop this morning, to try to keep it level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 30 April, 2015 Author Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Mervyn's obviously been reading this thread as I suggested the same thing a few pages back! Almost every country on the face of the planet was deeply affected by the crash so to suggest the blame lies entirely at the feet of Labour when a range of political parties and ideologies suffered similarly is a bit of a stretch. Name one person who has claimed Labour were 'entirely to blame' for causing the crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 If the Tories are not going to cut child benefit and tax credits they can pass a law saying they're not allowed to. Or something stupid like that. Love how they are so deceitful about it. Whoever has advised them that hitting child benefit is a smart move is crazy. Very tangible to most families and they will miss it. Sure most of the press won't report it. At least will pose some questions now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Mervyn's obviously been reading this thread as I suggested the same thing a few pages back! Almost every country on the face of the planet was deeply affected by the crash so to suggest the blame lies entirely at the feet of Labour when a range of political parties and ideologies suffered similarly is a bit of a stretch. It was a global financial crash and by inclusion of the word global, it couldn't have all been down to Labour. However, like all crashes, it is about the readiness and contingency. The same applies to car crashes: some drivers don't speed some drivers are ready to apply the brakes some drivers wear a seatbelt some drivers turn up the radio to hear the latest single by no more boom and bust the crash might not be the drivers fault, but how they fair in such a crash, very much depends on their behaviour prior to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 30 April, 2015 Author Share Posted 30 April, 2015 It was a global financial crash and by inclusion of the word global, it couldn't have all been down to Labour. However, like all crashes, it is about the readiness and contingency. The same applies to car crashes: some drivers don't speed some drivers are ready to apply the brakes some drivers wear a seatbelt some drivers turn up the radio to hear the latest single by no more boom and bust the crash might not be the drivers fault, but how they fair in such a crash, very much depends on their behaviour prior to it You forgot the 'inadequate car insurance' part of the analogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 You forgot the 'inadequate car insurance' part of the analogy ... And the link to the single because the lyrics are blinding mate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Vote guys and gals.............there are millions around the world that would love to have the right to vote !!! What if there is no-one who you feel represents you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Vote guys and gals.............there are millions around the world that would love to have the right to vote !!! Exactly, well said. I'm travelling 230 miles on Thursday to cast my vote in my constituency, and I always enjoy the experience. You do realise, though, that there are some geniuses (only a few would stoop so low) who advocate not voting at all, and who regard all British voters as 'morons' and some of them (for voting the wrong way) as complicit in murder. Yes, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 If the Tories are not going to cut child benefit and tax credits they can pass a law saying they're not allowed to. Or something stupid like that. Until we are on a better financial footing, child benefit should be cut so that the threshold is at the same place as the 40% tax rate. This would free up money from those that really shouldn't need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 What if there is no-one who you feel represents you? Spoil your ballot? It is essentially a protest vote. unbeknown to the authorities, there is a new party standing in Chichester, called the Johnny's Centralist Revolutionary Alliance Party. Thats right, I'm voting for J-CRAP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 What if there is no-one who you feel represents you? Then think harder - especially in this election, where there is more ballot paper choice than ever. I've been in a number of countries during dictatorship, including particularly brutal ones in Chile, Argentina, Pakistan and East Timor. In all of those countries, when the vote was restored, people reacted with a mixture of relief (because many died campaigning for democratic ideals) and joy. We should cherish the right to vote - the system might be imperfect (as most things are) but there's a far worse way to live, and that's without the vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Then think harder - especially in this election, where there is more ballot paper choice than ever. I've been in a number of countries during dictatorship, including particularly brutal ones in Chile, Argentina, Pakistan and East Timor. In all of those countries, when the vote was restored, people reacted with a mixture of relief (because many died campaigning for democratic ideals) and joy. We should cherish the right to vote - the system might be imperfect (as most things are) but there's a far worse way to live, and that's without the vote. I do cherish the vote, but I'm not going to vote for someone I don't believe in for the sake of it. I think that's the wrong attitude to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Exactly, well said. I'm travelling 230 miles on Thursday to cast my vote in my constituency, and I always enjoy the experience. You do realise, though, that there are some geniuses (only a few would stoop so low) who advocate not voting at all, and who regard all British voters as 'morons' and some of them (for voting the wrong way) as complicit in murder. Yes, really. Is the bit in bold a reference to Milliband's attempt to blame Cameron for those who drowned in the Med attempting to get into the EU from Libya? Voting must mean a lot to you when you are prepared to go to those lengths, when you could have had a postal vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxford_lou Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 I do cherish the vote, but I'm not going to vote for someone I don't believe in for the sake of it. I think that's the wrong attitude to have. Vote for your MP, not leader of a party. My local MP is Jeremy Corbyn. I think most in my borough would recognise his efforts regardless of which party he stands for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Vote for your MP, not leader of a party. My local MP is Jeremy Corbyn. I think most in my borough would recognise his efforts regardless of which party he stands for. I definitely don't vote for a leader, I vote for a government, although to a degree the right leader is important. In local terms my MP is pretty good (Philips Hammond), but can't vote for the Conservatives policies this time round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Vote for your MP, not leader of a party. My local MP is Jeremy Corbyn. I think most in my borough would recognise his efforts regardless of which party he stands for. That, IMO, is the over-riding argument against Proportional Representation. I've lived in countries with PR, and the actual members are just faceless footsoldiers that stick their hands up when and where they're told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxford_lou Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 I definitely don't vote for a leader, I vote for a government, although to a degree the right leader is important. In local terms my MP is pretty good (Philips Hammond), but can't vote for the Conservatives policies this time round. So, sorry, remind me what's stopping you voting Labour? Ed Millband being interviewed by Russell Brand? I'm generally confused by your position based on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 So, sorry, remind me what's stopping you voting Labour? Ed Millband being interviewed by Russell Brand? I'm generally confused by your position based on this thread. Definitely not, that was the point that my respect for the Labour Party couldn't get any lower. What's stopping me voting Labour is that I don't believe in their overall policies, no referendum on Europe, or the ability to keep the economy on an even keel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Good song. Good interview! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32521666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Name one person who has claimed Labour were 'entirely to blame' for causing the crash. Wes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Wes. Show me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Show me. Its pretty much all you do. The crash was nothing to do with the global crisis it was all Labour's fault and Brown in particular. The Tories have been stellar in retrieving the situation, nothing to do with the international recovery. If your posts were more measured and thoughtful they'd be more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Name one person who has claimed Labour were 'entirely to blame' for causing the crash. Buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Its pretty much all you do. The crash was nothing to do with the global crisis it was all Labour's fault and Brown in particular. The Tories have been stellar in retrieving the situation, nothing to do with the international recovery. If your posts were more measured and thoughtful they'd be more interesting. It wasn't Labour's fault entirely, however they do have a degree of culpibility. You cannot absolve Labour completely as some do. In the same vein, the Tories cannot take all of the credit for the recovery, however they can take some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 It wasn't Labour's fault entirely, however they do have a degree of culpibility. You cannot absolve Labour completely as some do. In the same vein, the Tories cannot take all of the credit for the recovery, however they can take some. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 It wasn't Labour's fault entirely, however they do have a degree of culpibility. You cannot absolve Labour completely as some do. In the same vein, the Tories cannot take all of the credit for the recovery, however they can take some. Absolutely. Its far more interesting to debate the individual policies than the 'my side good your side bad' mantra played on a loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 It wasn't Labour's fault entirely, however they do have a degree of culpibility. You cannot absolve Labour completely as some do. In the same vein, the Tories cannot take all of the credit for the recovery, however they can take some. Quite so. My view is that the country would have been in a better situation to handle the crash if there had not been the reckless overcommitment to public spending. Labour had gambled on continous growth and lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Its pretty much all you do. The crash was nothing to do with the global crisis it was all Labour's fault and Brown in particular. The Tories have been stellar in retrieving the situation, nothing to do with the international recovery. If your posts were more measured and thoughtful they'd be more interesting. Show me where I have said that the recession was nothing to do with the global crisis and that it was all Labour's fault and Brown's in particular. Also show me where I have attempted to give all the credit to the Tories to the exclusion of a recovery internationally. You might consider my posts not to be measured or balanced, that is up to you; but please don't try and tar me with something that I didn't say to try and prove a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 It wasn't Labour's fault entirely, however they do have a degree of culpibility. You cannot absolve Labour completely as some do. In the same vein, the Tories cannot take all of the credit for the recovery, however they can take some. That. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Show me. Everything bad = leftie w**kers whose sole motivated is jealously and envy. Everything good = Righteous righties whose sole motivation is to help the poor and the needy. You make Pap look balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 30 April, 2015 Share Posted 30 April, 2015 Everything bad = leftie w**kers whose sole motivated is jealously and envy. Everything good = Righteous righties whose sole motivation is to help the poor and the needy. You make Pap look balanced. Naturally you're not going to level this criticism of lack of balance to those whose views are diametrically opposed, are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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