Whitey Grandad Posted 27 April, 2015 Share Posted 27 April, 2015 That's probably because lefties are more intelligent http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html Nah, if they were intelligent they wouldn't be lefties and certainly wouldn't read the Daily Mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 27 April, 2015 Share Posted 27 April, 2015 That's probably because lefties are more intelligent http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html but they are far more hypocritical... 6 MPs were charged and convicted of expenses fraud.... All Labour hariet harman knocks Osborne for having a private education, when she went to the same school abbott sending her kids to private school, whilst knocking private education labour being against zero hour contracts, when labour controlled councils employ more than 70000 on such contracts milliband re writing his fathers will to avoid inheritance tax i could go on but I am boring myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 27 April, 2015 Share Posted 27 April, 2015 or maybe the Tories aren't saying much because they actually think that the normal people think that things are sort of OK at the moment, and will be happy with more of the same. While watching labour jumping up and down shouting "We'll give you this. And this. And this as well. And we'll make somebody else pay for it. Honest" Sorry, do you really think Labour are offering more election sweeteners than the Conservatives? More than £7bn in unfunded tax cuts, right to buy for housing association properties, increase in inheritance tax threshold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 27 April, 2015 Share Posted 27 April, 2015 BBC news report just now on the Paisley constituency. Left leaning Paisley types could vote for a) Douglas Alexander, experienced, solid pretty likable, genuinely local and a perfectly capable member of a new Labour government. or b) A twelve year old girl standing for the SNP. They'd have to be freaking nuts to kick out a clearly capable MP for that, surely? - Like other nationalist parties, a rousing leader but no strength in depth. If it bottoms out how I think it will - Cameron back in Number 10 - he'll be up against a weak opposition if all these SNP whey-faced newbies rock up. He'll be laughing all the way to the merchant bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 27 April, 2015 Share Posted 27 April, 2015 hariet harman knocks Osborne for having a private education, when she went to the same school Except that his was in Barnes and hers in Hammersmith, and they had different staff, oh and one was a girls school. Apart from that, same school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 27 April, 2015 Share Posted 27 April, 2015 BBC news report just now on the Paisley constituency. Left leaning Paisley types could vote for a) Douglas Alexander, experienced, solid pretty likable, genuinely local and a perfectly capable member of a new Labour government. or b) A twelve year old girl standing for the SNP. They'd have to be freaking nuts to kick out a clearly capable MP for that, surely? - Like other nationalist parties, a rousing leader but no strength in depth. If it bottoms out how I think it will - Cameron back in Number 10 - he'll be up against a weak opposition if all these SNP whey-faced newbies rock up. He'll be laughing all the way to the merchant bank. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/general-election-2015-mhairi-black-the-20yearold-who-could-become-the-youngest-mp-since-1667-10202932.html You could read her words and the words of the people that will be voting in the constituency to find out why they're voting against Alexander rather than tarring them all with the same brush. The key word is representation, something that Scottish Labour voters feel they lacked when they voted for them in the past. The general consensus is that if a vote for the SNP gets Scotland's voice heard loudly in Westminster, it's a vote worth casting. More than an adequate reason to kick out a capable MP in most people's eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 27 April, 2015 Share Posted 27 April, 2015 (edited) Except that his was in Barnes and hers in Hammersmith, and they had different staff, oh and one was a girls school. Apart from that, same school. Still fee paying. Still a hypocrite You don't disagree with the other assertions either? let me chuck in a few more.... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/labour-open-to-the-charge-of-hypocrisy-after-failing-to-divulge-hedge-fund-managers-donation-10124387.html This evening Ed Balls is posing with a placard saying ban zero hour contracts, at a labour event, which used zero hour contract workers. Edited 27 April, 2015 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 27 April, 2015 Share Posted 27 April, 2015 Except that his was in Barnes and hers in Hammersmith, and they had different staff, oh and one was a girls school. Apart from that, same school. Yes, the same school. They both went to St Paul's. If Eton had a girl's school, and she went there, it would still be valid for people to say that she went to the same school as Cameron, wouldn't it? Or are you going to try and argue that the St Paul's girls' school was less public school, less prestigious, less academically capable or less exclusive than the boys' part of it? Currently it has the highest exam percentage successes in the Country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 27 April, 2015 Share Posted 27 April, 2015 (edited) Yes, the same school. They both went to St Paul's. If Eton had a girl's school, and she went there, it would still be valid for people to say that she went to the same school as Cameron, wouldn't it? Or are you going to try and argue that the St Paul's girls' school was less public school, less prestigious, less academically capable or less exclusive than the boys' part of it? Currently it has the highest exam percentage successes in the Country. The fact that lefties even attempt to defend complete and utter hypocrisy, just shows the delusions under which they have placed themselves. They should be stringing them up. It is quite clear quite a few labour MPs couldn't give a flying **** about the common man, as long as they can get away with making a career out of politics Edited 27 April, 2015 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 27 April, 2015 Share Posted 27 April, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 27 April, 2015 Share Posted 27 April, 2015 The fact that lefties even attempt to defend complete and utter hypocrisy, just shows the delusions under which they have placed themselves. They should be stringing them up. It is quite clear quite a few labour MPs couldn't give a flying **** about the common man, as long as they can get away with making a career out of politics Of course, Shirley Williams was also a pupil at St Pauls School and then went on to decimate the Grammar Schools and to introduce Comprehensives. Yet another case of Labour hypocrisy, I'm alright Jill, blow you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Bedroom tax victim has toes amputated after spending winter in a tent. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/skelmersdale-bedroom-tax-victim-toes-9130405 All in it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/general-election-2015-mhairi-black-the-20yearold-who-could-become-the-youngest-mp-since-1667-10202932.html You could read her words and the words of the people that will be voting in the constituency to find out why they're voting against Alexander rather than tarring them all with the same brush. The key word is representation, something that Scottish Labour voters feel they lacked when they voted for them in the past. The general consensus is that if a vote for the SNP gets Scotland's voice heard loudly in Westminster, it's a vote worth casting. More than an adequate reason to kick out a capable MP in most people's eyes. Funnily enough, having followed this election for literally days now, I am fully aware of the blue-face-paint reasons to vote SNP. Just expressing the thought that if those people genuinely want a different government then voting in Tracy McBeaker would not be the greatest move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 but they are far more hypocritical... 6 MPs were charged and convicted of expenses fraud.... All Labour hariet harman knocks Osborne for having a private education, when she went to the same school abbott sending her kids to private school, whilst knocking private education labour being against zero hour contracts, when labour controlled councils employ more than 70000 on such contracts milliband re writing his fathers will to avoid inheritance tax i could go on but I am boring myself That's just lefties in general though isn't it? Do as I say, not as I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 (edited) Bedroom tax victim has toes amputated after spending winter in a tent. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/skelmersdale-bedroom-tax-victim-toes-9130405 All in it together. Whilst at first this seems shocking, when you dig a bit deeper, there is more to this than simply the bedroom tax. Why pitch a tent tent up on the moors in the winter???? what the **** were social services doing?????? why didn't their family do more, like take them in for a few nights so they could get assessed??. why did they fail to attend job seeking interviews??? So whilst I agree that having your toes amputated is truly shocking, to simply blame it just on bedroom tax exonerates people who had a duty of care. If I was them, I would be taking legal action against social services. (BTW I am not saying I agree with the bedroom tax, I am merely stating that this situation was avoidable) Edited 28 April, 2015 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 That's just lefties in general though isn't it? Do as I say, not as I do. Whereas right wingers can only see things through their own experiences, rather than empathising with others less fortunate than them. It is possible to go public school and still make a rational judgment that they are harmful to social mobility and equality of opportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Whereas right wingers can only see things through their own experiences, rather than empathising with others less fortunate than them. Right wingers hate poor people. That's why they want to turn them into rich people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Right wingers hate poor people. That's why they want to turn them into rich people. I do admire that lefties want everyone to be the same, and to have equality in society, but I just don't think everyone should be lazy and poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Whereas right wingers can only see things through their own experiences, rather than empathising with others less fortunate than them. It is possible to go public school and still make a rational judgment that they are harmful to social mobility and equality of opportunity Had a labour supporter on my doorstep last night trying to say the same thing. Unfortunately I don't think it's a very good tactic if you want someone to vote for the party you support. It's sad if someone thinks that if you vote Tory you cannot empathise with others or that you are heartless. Some of the most generous and kindest people I have ever met have happened to vote conservative. In summary, normal people who want to vote labour have my respect, militant union types who bang on about the common man and blame the Conservatives for all the ills of the world can do one as far as I'm concerned. Certainly aren't going to change my mind by getting people like that on my doorstep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 28 April, 2015 Author Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Bedroom tax victim has toes amputated after spending winter in a tent. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/skelmersdale-bedroom-tax-victim-toes-9130405 All in it together. Do you have the full case notes to hand for this one pap, as there appears to be several pieces of the jigsaw missing in the report? From what I can make out, it looks like this case might be due to mismanagement at a local level rather than as a direct result of government policy, but its impossible to come to a conclusion on that based on the snippets the newspaper has chosen to report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Right wingers hate poor people. That's why they want to turn them into rich people. Funny then that since Thatcher's neo liberal revolution in the 1980s (which new labour carried on) wages have been stagnant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 I do admire that lefties want everyone to be the same, and to have equality in society, but I just don't think everyone should be lazy and poor. I cannot believe that a sentence so short can have as many holes, inconsistencies and non sequiturs. F**k me, you're concise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Had a labour supporter on my doorstep last night trying to say the same thing. Unfortunately I don't think it's a very good tactic if you want someone to vote for the party you support. It's sad if someone thinks that if you vote Tory you cannot empathise with others or that you are heartless. Some of the most generous and kindest people I have ever met have happened to vote conservative. In summary, normal people who want to vote labour have my respect, militant union types who bang on about the common man and blame the Conservatives for all the ills of the world can do one as far as I'm concerned. Certainly aren't going to change my mind by getting people like that on my doorstep. I agree that conservatives can be perfectly pleasant people (my parents are among them). But they've deluded themselves that what's best for them is best for everyone, often because they don't really have personal contact with those less well off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Do you have the full case notes to hand for this one pap, as there appears to be several pieces of the jigsaw missing in the report? From what I can make out, it looks like this case might be due to mismanagement at a local level rather than as a direct result of government policy, but its impossible to come to a conclusion on that based on the snippets the newspaper has chosen to report. It's during a General Election and in a mainly Labour area, so it represents an opportunity for an anti Tory sound bite on the one hand and sweeps under the carpet the failure of the social services to prevent this sort of thing happening on the other hand. Win/win for them for now, but ultimately after the election there will have to be an investigation into quite how this was allowed to happen, so that the system can be improved so that it doesn't happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Funny then that since Thatcher's neo liberal revolution in the 1980s (which new labour carried on) wages have been stagnant A lot more has been going on than Thatcher's 'neoliberal' revolution (christ I hate that word). Thatcher simply accelerated trends that were long present in the economy and in turn technnology and globalisation have given them additional impetus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 I agree that conservatives can be perfectly pleasant people (my parents are among them). But they've deluded themselves that what's best for them is best for everyone, often because they don't really have personal contact with those less well off So that's everyone who votes conservative then yes? When you vote do you vote for what you think is best for you, best for the country or a combination of the two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 I cannot believe that a sentence so short can have as many holes, inconsistencies and non sequiturs. F**k me, you're concise. Is there a fishing rod emoticon Shurlock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 28 April, 2015 Author Share Posted 28 April, 2015 (edited) I agree that conservatives can be perfectly pleasant people (my parents are among them). But they've deluded themselves that what's best for them is best for everyone, often because they don't really have personal contact with those less well off[ That's incorrect (in my experience) Edited 28 April, 2015 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Had a labour supporter on my doorstep last night trying to say the same thing. Unfortunately I don't think it's a very good tactic if you want someone to vote for the party you support. It's sad if someone thinks that if you vote Tory you cannot empathise with others or that you are heartless. Some of the most generous and kindest people I have ever met have happened to vote conservative. In summary, normal people who want to vote labour have my respect, militant union types who bang on about the common man and blame the Conservatives for all the ills of the world can do one as far as I'm concerned. Certainly aren't going to change my mind by getting people like that on my doorstep. Totally agree with this. I agree that conservatives can be perfectly pleasant people (my parents are among them). But they've deluded themselves that what's best for them is best for everyone, often because they don't really have personal contact with those less well off I'm a Tory at heart and worked in and around the poorest of our society for 30 years. There's a reason why even the Labour Party aren't left wing anymore. Socialism doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 To be honest, that it came from CCHQ was the least shocking part! I didn't expect 5000 small businesses to spontaneously self-organise. However, it looks like the Tories have done a pretty shoddy job and I am sure some researchers are being fired ... https://sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2015/04/27/small-business-letter-to-the-telegraph-an-attempt-to-defraud-the-electorate/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Socialism doesn't work. That's why all the lefties find it so appealing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 28 April, 2015 Author Share Posted 28 April, 2015 (edited) To be honest, that it came from CCHQ was the least shocking part! I didn't expect 5000 small businesses to spontaneously self-organise. However, it looks like the Tories have done a pretty shoddy job and I am sure some researchers are being fired ... https://sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2015/04/27/small-business-letter-to-the-telegraph-an-attempt-to-defraud-the-electorate/ Surely the fact that they didn't attempt to cover their tracks is something to be admired rather than mocked? I repeat my question from yesterday, are there really people out there who are naive enough to believe that this kinda stuff emanates anywhere else than from party election HQs? Edited 28 April, 2015 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Right wingers hate poor people. That's why they want to turn them into rich people. No, they just want a society where everybody is earning 'above average' wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Surely the fact that they didn't attempt to cover their tracks is something to be admired rather than mocked? I repeat my question from yesterday, are there really people out there who are naive enough to believe this kinda stuff emanates anywhere else than from party election HQs? I dunno about admired. I mean - i don't particularly give a toss about these sort of stupid election campaign side-shows, but it's not at all savvy of them to think that nobody would dig in to it. To be honest, the Telegraph probably deserves the most derision for publishing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 (edited) Totally agree with this. I'm a Tory at heart and worked in and around the poorest of our society for 30 years. There's a reason why even the Labour Party aren't left wing anymore. Socialism doesn't work. Why does it always have to be a binary choice between liberalism and socialism? I consider myself a social democrat, committed to capitalism but with effective controls and safeguards Edited 28 April, 2015 by Ex Lion Tamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Surely the fact that they didn't attempt to cover their tracks is something to be admired rather than mocked? I repeat my question from yesterday, are there really people out there who are naive enough to believe that this kinda stuff emanates anywhere else than from party election HQs? Yes I think there are plenty. Mainly because they don't really think that hard about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 No, they just want a society where everybody is earning 'above average' wages. James blunt got it right. Labour are about trying to drag rich people down. Right of centre is about pulling those who have less, up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 A lot more has been going on than Thatcher's 'neoliberal' revolution (christ I hate that word). Thatcher simply accelerated trends that were long present in the economy and in turn technnology and globalisation have given them additional impetus. And it's just a coincidence that the outcome of these "external factors" is that the rich get to keep all the proceeds of economic growth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 No, they just want a society where everybody is earning 'above average' wages. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Why does it always have to be a binary choice between liberalism and socialism? I consider myself a social democrat, committed to capitalism but with effective controls and safeguards Because its an easy label for the unthinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Because its an easy label for the unthinking. Ex Lion Tamer is more prone to attaching labels and talking in broad generalisations than most. And it's just a coincidence that the outcome of these "external factors" is that the rich get to keep all the proceeds of economic growth? I agree that conservatives can be perfectly pleasant people (my parents are among them). But they've deluded themselves that what's best for them is best for everyone, often because they don't really have personal contact with those less well off Whereas right wingers can only see things through their own experiences, rather than empathising with others less fortunate than them. It is possible to go public school and still make a rational judgment that they are harmful to social mobility and equality of opportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 I agree that conservatives can be perfectly pleasant people (my parents are among them). But they've deluded themselves that what's best for them is best for everyone, often because they don't really have personal contact with those less well off I can think of a good number of left-wing Labour voters i know who wouldn't even consider associating with those who live in some of the poorer estates of Southampton. Doesn't stop them bloody preaching though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 I can think of a good number of left-wing Labour voters i know who wouldn't even consider associating with those who live in some of the poorer estates of Southampton. Doesn't stop them bloody preaching though. I look after my cat well. She gets good food, healthcare and a comfortable place to sleep. That doesnt mean I have socialise with her and her cat buddies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 I look after my cat well. She gets good food, healthcare and a comfortable place to sleep. That doesnt mean I have socialise with her and her cat buddies. But have you had her neutered though, and if so where does that fit into appropriate analogies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc1976 Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Anyone having any bets? Some of these predicted SNP swings are incredible...even Gordon Brown's old seat is 1/3 to go to the SNP. Currently has a 23,009 Labour majority! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 I look after my cat well. She gets good food, healthcare and a comfortable place to sleep. That doesnt mean I have socialise with her and her cat buddies. Which is what i was getting at - lazy stereotyping adds nothing, especially when it is tinged with the slightly pious drive for self-promotion. btw, you are too soft on your cats. They need to demonstrate they at least trying to catch mice and birds in order to get more than value range food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 (edited) Ex Lion Tamer is more prone to attaching labels and talking in broad generalisations than most. [/b] Two of those are responses to generalisations and one is a verifiable fact! Edited 28 April, 2015 by Ex Lion Tamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 It is possible to go public school and still make a rational judgment that they are harmful to social mobility and equality of opportunity Which is fine, but it doesn't justify using the fact that your opponent was privately educated as stick with which to beat them, especially if you were privately educated yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 So, the general consensus seems to be that the Conservatives have run a pretty ineffective campaign, but that judgement has been made at a national level. Does anyone here live in a marginal constituency that might be considered a "target" seat for any of the major parties? If so, how have the campaigns been at a local level? FWIW, my standing MP is (was) Conservative, with a majority of about 7,000, and is odds-on to retain the seat. I've not had sight nor sound of any candidate or any campaigners, and I've had just one leaflet in my post box from UKIP which went straight into the recycling bin before even getting through my door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Two of those are responses to generalisations and one is a verifiable fact! Which is the verifiable fact? That Conservatives can be perfectly pleasant people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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