General Election 2015

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Guessing this must have been true as it was on 5live and no one else has suggested it is a load of bollix

 

Just shows that labour can make the same amount of cuts and it is deemed more acceptable

It's this they're referring to:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30794472

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Appreciate that.

 

Personally I think they will get that scenario - Cameron in No 10 - anyway because I don't Ed will do enough anyway.

 

Allows 40 odd SNP backbenchers to pointlessly snipe away for five years and 30% of Scotland wonder "why did we vote for them again?".

 

I think that the referendum was a turning point for Scottish politics. The factor that inflated the yes vote was the fact that they hated being ruled by a Government far away in Westminster. They could cope when the cabinet was full of Scots but now their left instincts are represented by Miliband, who amazingly has lower personal ratings in Scotland than Cameron, the tide has turned. They will now increasingly vote tribally in the same way that the Northern Irish do until Independence is granted to them. That process will accelerate if there is a Tory government and I would suspect that they know that. They will be more cautious now knowing that it will take a decade to ensure the yes vote swing from the no vote can be achieved. There will then be another referendum. They cannot jump the gun too soon though because Scotland was greatly scarred socially by the referendum and it will not necessarily be welcomed too soon by the mainstream Scottish public. The only way to change that course is if an iconic Scottish Labour politician emerges to lead the Labour party and they can feel properly represented again. That man is not Murphy. All very sad in my opinion but it is after all up to the Scots.

[Jonnyboy]

Rule One.

 

[Wes Tender]

Must have been watching another QT from me as he came across as the usual tory boy heartless buffoon.

 

No, I suspect that we were both watching the same programme, but that you have merely responded in the same way to my remarks as I would have if you had commented on how well that condescendingly hypocritical champagne socialist cow Harman had come across

[whelk]

No, I suspect that we were both watching the same programme, but that you have merely responded in the same way to my remarks as I would have if you had commented on how well that condescendingly hypocritical champagne socialist cow Harman had come across

 

Are you implying that their are not many undecided neutrals being persuaded by poster's arguments put up on this thread. Surely not.

I cant really comprehend people who may switch vote as a result of seeing performances in debates and TV interviews, Daily Mail headlines etc.. I should be more open minded.

What is pleasing is cnts like the Sun seemingly have have less influence.

Although judging by our workplace so much apathy amongst the young, many of whom are intelligent graduates, who are not bothering to vote or even take time to understand politics. Can see why in many ways but still annoying that they aren't concerned, and not championing causes and demanding change - however naive.

[Hockey_saint]

No, I suspect that we were both watching the same programme, but that you have merely responded in the same way to my remarks as I would have if you had commented on how well that condescendingly hypocritical champagne socialist cow Harman had come across

 

Nope, you are right, Harman is a condescendingly hypocritical champagne socialist like you say. It still doesn't stop me being completely disgusted (like John Major by the way) by the behaviour of this current tory party.

[Coxford_lou]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-billionaires-who-do-pay-their-bills-including-james-dyson-and-jk-rowling-7873607.html

[Wes Tender]

Nope, you are right, Harman is a condescendingly hypocritical champagne socialist like you say. It still doesn't stop me being completely disgusted (like John Major by the way) by the behaviour of this current tory party.

 

Like you, I abhor the petty childish behaviour that has emerged through this election campaign. But it isn't just the Tories indulging in it, as Milliband's attempt to directly smear Cameron with some blame for the deaths of those refugees fleeing Libya illustrates. And then there are the constant snide references to the educational background of the Tory leadership, when many of the top Labour hierarchy were also educated privately. Hypocrisy abounds.

 

Whelk:

Are you implying that their are not many undecided neutrals being persuaded by poster's arguments put up on this thread. Surely not.

I cant really comprehend people who may switch vote as a result of seeing performances in debates and TV interviews, Daily Mail headlines etc.. I should be more open minded.

What is pleasing is cnts like the Sun seemingly have have less influence.

Although judging by our workplace so much apathy amongst the young, many of whom are intelligent graduates, who are not bothering to vote or even take time to understand politics. Can see why in many ways but still annoying that they aren't concerned, and not championing causes and demanding change - however naive.

 

I agree with you. Certainly the views of most on here are entrenched already one way or the other. Ditto people tend to read the newspapers that reflect their own personal political views. Generally, the red top newspapers aren't bastions of serious political debate, so by and large their readership tend to like the bigoted stereotypical views against the parties they oppose. Where HS points to the poor behaviour of the politicians in this election, perhaps some pander to the baser instincts of the average Sun, Mirror, Star or Mail reader, who are the more likely floating voters who would be pursuaded by petty incidents rather than any deeper debate on political doctrine.

 

Like you, I'm disappointed that the young voters aren't engaged more in politics. There are issues which directly affect them like further education fees, jobs and rental rates that one would have thought that they would have strong opinions about, but perhaps they hold the opinion that the current politicians are all bland and as bad as each other, or that they feel disenfranchised, or incapable of bringing about change.

[Torres]

It was. You just don't want to listen.

 

The SNP will need to succeed in Westminster if they get the chance to form a government.

 

With 40 odd seats they really won't have that much power.

 

There will be no independence referendum for at least a decade (at least) so they are going to have to get on with it.

 

You think they can let a Labour government collapse within a year, usher in a Tory administration where they would be powerless and that action would have no impact whatsoever on their credibility?

 

Not even on the (at least) 50% of the population who didn't vote for them in the first place?

 

Not on the 30% chunk who didn't vote SNP in 2010 but are now (you seem to think) locked-in SNP loyalists for life?

 

You dont think those thousands of floating voters wouldn't feel a wee bit short changed by the SNP's "new politics" of, err, welch on their number one pledge and let the Tories in immediately by utterly fu cking up an agreement when they had an unprecedented number of seats they might never get again?

 

Decisions and actions have consequences.

 

Just because you have nightmares that the SNP are some unstoppable infallible political machine doesn't make it true.

 

They'll fu ck up just as much as any other party.

This again betrays your lack of understanding of where the SNP support comes from. It's not "normal" voter support that we experience this side of the border. Yes, a lot of the SNP support comes from left-leaning "working class" Scots who feel that the centrist Labour party run by "the champagne socialist North London elite" no longer represent them, but also from huge number of Scots for whom independence is the number one issue and to whom the SNP are the only major party in Scotland who are committed to it. The SNP not voting with Ed's Labour government and leading to a vote of no confidence in that government is not going to have any major consequence in the eyes of that SNP support.

 

The threat from the SNP to Labour is real - and that's all that counts when it comes to any confidence and supply negotiations. You can bet your bottom that the SNP won't be trying to look after the people of Hampshire.

[CB Fry]

This again betrays your lack of understanding of where the SNP support comes from. It's not "normal" voter support that we experience this side of the border. Yes, a lot of the SNP support comes from left-leaning "working class" Scots who feel that the centrist Labour party run by "the champagne socialist North London elite" no longer represent them, but also from huge number of Scots for whom independence is the number one issue and to whom the SNP are the only major party in Scotland who are committed to it. The SNP not voting with Ed's Labour government and leading to a vote of no confidence in that government is not going to have any major consequence in the eyes of that SNP support.

 

The threat from the SNP to Labour is real - and that's all that counts when it comes to any confidence and supply negotiations. You can bet your bottom that the SNP won't be trying to look after the people of Hampshire.

Well we'll agree to differ.

 

Independence is not going to happen for a long, long time.

 

You think the SNP collapsing a government and letting the Tories stroll in will have no impact whatsoever on Salmond and Sturgeon's standing?

 

Five years ago the SNP polled less than 20% of the vote, a whole 80,000 less than the Tories.

 

Five years on you think we're now in a place that whatever the SNP do, whatever promises they break or fu ck ups they make a gigantic swath of robotic unthinking voters are going to vote for them unopposed for all elections forever? Laughable.

 

They're doing very well right now, but all political parties fu ck up and they all lose elections.

[Hockey_saint]

Like you, I abhor the petty childish behaviour that has emerged through this election campaign. But it isn't just the Tories indulging in it, as Milliband's attempt to directly smear Cameron with some blame for the deaths of those refugees fleeing Libya illustrates. And then there are the constant snide references to the educational background of the Tory leadership, when many of the top Labour hierarchy were also educated privately. Hypocrisy abounds.

 

Whelk:

 

I agree with you. Certainly the views of most on here are entrenched already one way or the other. Ditto people tend to read the newspapers that reflect their own personal political views. Generally, the red top newspapers aren't bastions of serious political debate, so by and large their readership tend to like the bigoted stereotypical views against the parties they oppose. Where HS points to the poor behaviour of the politicians in this election, perhaps some pander to the baser instincts of the average Sun, Mirror, Star or Mail reader, who are the more likely floating voters who would be pursuaded by petty incidents rather than any deeper debate on political doctrine.

 

Like you, I'm disappointed that the young voters aren't engaged more in politics. There are issues which directly affect them like further education fees, jobs and rental rates that one would have thought that they would have strong opinions about, but perhaps they hold the opinion that the current politicians are all bland and as bad as each other, or that they feel disenfranchised, or incapable of bringing about change.

 

The thing is, I'm not going to big up William Hauge because the labour opposition are a bunch of hypocrites either. I'm not going to pretend what either of them are pertaining to do is in any way "good" because it's not. As I said before and I'm glad the green party mentioned it (however much I object to what appears to be an Aussie running for office here), Taking a blanket 20% out of disability assistance for no reason other than saving money because (as the Daily Mail often puts it) disabled people are all a bunch of feckless shirkers is just abhorrent. There was a woman in the audience on QT that made my blood boil however and I think she possesses a common view of "they should not buy cigarettes and booze and make sure they're better with their money and they wont need help" I think was the line. How ignorant and rude.

 

But as I've said, I understand labour are currently no better but I will not champion William Hauge for what his party are currently proposing simply because the other option is rubbish.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Oops http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/04/watch-david-cameron-bizarrely-switches-his-football-allegiance-to-west-ham/

[Hockey_saint]

Oops http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/04/watch-david-cameron-bizarrely-switches-his-football-allegiance-to-west-ham/

 

Now what was it Graeme Souness said about Woopert again?

[Torres]

What a tit.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Funny how Ed Miliband was supposed to be the buffoon of this election

[Ex Lion Tamer]

'Most damaging of all are the insiders openly talking on social media about how Cameron wants out. Andrew Neil tweeted: “Spoke to major Tory donor tonight. ‘Tory campaign useless. Cameron’s heart not in it. Not looking good’” – to which the Conservative writer and activist Tim Montgomerie replied: “DC has wanted out for a while. He has just wanted to go out on some sort of high and hasn’t been able to find that high.”'

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/22/tories-panicking-david-cameron-election

[Verbal]

Funny how Ed Miliband was supposed to be the buffoon of this election

 

The biggest miscalculation of the whole campaign. The Tories thought all they had to do was wait for Miliband to self-immolate, and it never happened. No need to have policies even worth discussing (witness on here - even the Cameron sycophants and further Right like Lords Duck-Tender-Trousers don't discuss anything out of the Tory campaign - all they want to do is debate Milibandisms).

 

This has been the most incompetent campaign I've witnessed from a major political party since Michael Foot in 1983. Cameron's "I'm leaving" is the shortest political suicide note in history.

[um pahars]

You don't just slip up with regards what team you support (the real story is not his slip up, memory lapse, but instead the bullship line that he is a football fan in the first instance in order to present himself as down with the electorate - note this isn't exclusive to Tories either).

 

PS didn't we have a Referendum Party member with links to Saints do exactly the same a few years back???

[trousers]

the Cameron sycophants and further Right like Lords Duck-Tender-Trousers don't discuss anything out of the Tory campaign

 

You do realise us blinkered right-wing sycophants actually want the Tories to lose this time around...?

[Orange]

Anyone else find the new mastermind campaign coming out of Lib Dem HQ quite amusing?

 

That the Tories and UKIP will 'plunge' us into horrible cuts, and that Labour and the SNP will borrow us into a mountain of further debt. But the Lib Dems are there to rescue the situation and hold that 'centre ground'. It's about the only straw they seem to be clutching to. I so hope they get obliterated. It would be a treat to see the likes of Danny Alexander and Tim Farron packing up their bags.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Anyone else find the new mastermind campaign coming out of Lib Dem HQ quite amusing?

 

That the Tories and UKIP will 'plunge' us into horrible cuts, and that Labour and the SNP will borrow us into a mountain of further debt. But the Lib Dems are there to rescue the situation and hold that 'centre ground'. It's about the only straw they seem to be clutching to. I so hope they get obliterated. It would be a treat to see the likes of Danny Alexander and Tim Farron packing up their bags.

I was surprised to discover that a couple of my friends are planning to vote lib dem. I don't understand it, but the libs seem to retain a support base

[Orange]

I was surprised to discover that a couple of my friends are planning to vote lib dem. I don't understand it, but the libs seem to retain a support base

 

Yeah i don't really get it either. They seem to have a few areas where they have a very loyal base, like Eastleigh.

 

When i lived near Winchester i remember lots of upper middle class type homes would be decked out in Lib Dem boards.

[Wes Tender]

Yeah i don't really get it either. They seem to have a few areas where they have a very loyal base, like Eastleigh.

 

When i lived near Winchester i remember lots of upper middle class type homes would be decked out in Lib Dem boards.

 

This is the least number of Lib Dem posters I have ever seen in a General Election in the Eastleigh constituency. Usually it is awash with them, but I've hardly seen any.

[pap]

Like you, I abhor the petty childish behaviour that has emerged through this election campaign. But it isn't just the Tories indulging in it, as Milliband's attempt to directly smear Cameron with some blame for the deaths of those refugees fleeing Libya illustrates.

 

I think Cameron deserves some of the blame for the migrant crisis. He was happy enough to take the plaudits when seen as a man of action at the time.

 

At the beginning of Cameron's tenure, Libya was a relatively stable country, irrespective of how it was governed. After the bi-lateral action from the British and French, it became the incoherent playground of murderous warlords. Could well be that Libya would have got there with or without our "help", but that's just navel-gazing after the fact. We'll never know. The facts are that Cameron decided that military action was appropriate, yet gave considerably less thought to the consequences of his actions.

 

Is he responsible for all migrants wanting to get over? No, but every time a Libyan decides to risk life and limb in flight to Europe, Cameron's failure to follow-up the strikes in Libya with any post-conflict planning is fair game.

 

Rough. Smooth. etc.

[Jonnyboy]

(the Libyans dell days didn't bomb that is)

[Hockey_saint]

Anyone else find the new mastermind campaign coming out of Lib Dem HQ quite amusing?

 

That the Tories and UKIP will 'plunge' us into horrible cuts, and that Labour and the SNP will borrow us into a mountain of further debt. But the Lib Dems are there to rescue the situation and hold that 'centre ground'. It's about the only straw they seem to be clutching to. I so hope they get obliterated. It would be a treat to see the likes of Danny Alexander and Tim Farron packing up their bags.

 

There are genuinely a couple of Liberals on here who honestly cannot fathom why they'd be completely slaughtered at the elections. I mean, to think they'd even be considered after the rampant hammering predicted. Lesson to be learned though. Don't sell your morals to play the minor partner in a coalition simply because you've been unelectable for a century otherwise a repeat will probably occur. People don't forget.

[pap]

(the Libyans dell days didn't bomb that is)

 

When I was in my twenties, I used to drink with an obviously lapsed Muslim called Hassan, from Libya, in the Edge Lane pubs in Liverpool. You'd be hard pushed to find another bloke as nice as he was. His old man was connected to the regime, acted as a local sheriff or whatever the equivalent is. I don't know whether that factored into him being able to leave to study in the UK, but clearly, this was no Iron Curtain type setup.

 

It's all about perspective. He knew that we didn't like Gadaffi altogether much, and wouldn't defend him on matters Lockerbie. But here's the thing. The frosty relationship between Libya and the UK was thawing, and British companies were investing in the country during the New Labour government. With hindsight, it's easy to say that Labour's approach was better, even though it was bloody controversial and caused us to lose some respect at the time. I personally did not agree with the release of the Lockerbie bomber, but could understand why the decision was made.

 

Switching gears a little, if my three years in Northern Ireland taught me anything, it's that dogma and even historical enmity play second fiddle to prosperity. Hard-liners remain, but in general, the population over there is just enjoying the prosperity associated with a normal life. I'd argue, just as I do with Iran, that bringing rogue states in from the cold, is a better long-term solution than killing everyone to death.

[Coxford_lou]

When I was in my twenties, I used to drink with an obviously lapsed Muslim called Hassan, from Libya, in the Edge Lane pubs in Liverpool. You'd be hard pushed to find another bloke as nice as he was. His old man was connected to the regime, acted as a local sheriff or whatever the equivalent is. I don't know whether that factored into him being able to leave to study in the UK, but clearly, this was no Iron Curtain type setup.

 

It's all about perspective. He knew that we didn't like Gadaffi altogether much, and wouldn't defend him on matters Lockerbie. But here's the thing. The frosty relationship between Libya and the UK was thawing, and British companies were investing in the country during the New Labour government. With hindsight, it's easy to say that Labour's approach was better, even though it was bloody controversial and caused us to lose some respect at the time. I personally did not agree with the release of the Lockerbie bomber, but could understand why the decision was made.

 

Switching gears a little, if my three years in Northern Ireland taught me anything, it's that dogma and even historical enmity play second fiddle to prosperity. Hard-liners remain, but in general, the population over there is just enjoying the prosperity associated with a normal life. I'd argue, just as I do with Iran, that bringing rogue states in from the cold, is a better long-term solution than killing everyone to death.

 

Blimey, I do believe, that just maybe, hidden away so no one can quite see it, there may be a hint of a compliment for Tony Blair.

[Wes Tender]

I think Cameron deserves some of the blame for the migrant crisis. He was happy enough to take the plaudits when seen as a man of action at the time.

 

At the beginning of Cameron's tenure, Libya was a relatively stable country, irrespective of how it was governed. After the bi-lateral action from the British and French, it became the incoherent playground of murderous warlords. Could well be that Libya would have got there with or without our "help", but that's just navel-gazing after the fact. We'll never know. The facts are that Cameron decided that military action was appropriate, yet gave considerably less thought to the consequences of his actions.

 

Is he responsible for all migrants wanting to get over? No, but every time a Libyan decides to risk life and limb in flight to Europe, Cameron's failure to follow-up the strikes in Libya with any post-conflict planning is fair game.

 

Rough. Smooth. etc.

 

And are you also going to admit that Milliband and Clegg also deserve some of the blame too, being as how balanced and even-handed you would like to consider yourself? After all, they all three supported taking action against the tyrannical regime there. The foul whiff of hypocrisy fills the air over this attempt to besmirch Cameron, when Milliband also instrumental in the events. He says that the Tories should have followed up the toppling of Gaddafi with measures to stabilise the region, but Milliband decided that apart from a few muted mutterings in February, the time to raise that matter was in the middle of an election campaign, when he cynically planned for it to overshadow the Tories announcement of their policy to have English laws made the exclusive territory of English MPs.

 

At least Clegg had the decency to condemn Milliband's cynical ploy. Do you?

 

As an aside, these migrants are not exclusively Libyans; they comprise a significant proportion fleeing conflicts in Syria, Somalia and other parts of sub-Saharan Africa. This article throws some perspective onto the situation and although it is not up to date post Gaddafi, it illustrates that the problem existed long before his demise:-

 

http://www.imi.ox.ac.uk/pdfs/Irregular%20migration%20from%20West%20Africa%20-%20Hein%20de%20Haas.pdf

[Torres]

Well well, another victim of the Tory propaganda machine:

 

Gordon Brown warns over 'chaos and constitutional crisis' of voting SNP

 

http://gu.com/p/47p56

[Lord Duckhunter]

If Milliband is so concerned about post conflict planning , why did he vote against setting up the Iraq inquiry 4 times?

[OldNick]

And are you also going to admit that Milliband and Clegg also deserve some of the blame too, being as how balanced and even-handed you would like to consider yourself? After all, they all three supported taking action against the tyrannical regime there. The foul whiff of hypocrisy fills the air over this attempt to besmirch Cameron, when Milliband also instrumental in the events. He says that the Tories should have followed up the toppling of Gaddafi with measures to stabilise the region, but Milliband decided that apart from a few muted mutterings in February, the time to raise that matter was in the middle of an election campaign, when he cynically planned for it to overshadow the Tories announcement of their policy to have English laws made the exclusive territory of English MPs.

 

At least Clegg had the decency to condemn Milliband's cynical ploy. Do you?

 

As an aside, these migrants are not exclusively Libyans; they comprise a significant proportion fleeing conflicts in Syria, Somalia and other parts of sub-Saharan Africa. This article throws some perspective onto the situation and although it is not up to date post Gaddafi, it illustrates that the problem existed long before his demise:-

 

http://www.imi.ox.ac.uk/pdfs/Irregular%20migration%20from%20West%20Africa%20-%20Hein%20de%20Haas.pdf

Most of these people fleeing seem to young men, there are women and children amongst them but the massive majority are men. Have they abandoned their families and run off to Europe. I assume as they are integrated into Europe they will be allowed to bring countless more of their families across to join them.

[shurlock]

Well well, another victim of the Tory propaganda machine:

 

Gordon Brown warns over 'chaos and constitutional crisis' of voting SNP

 

http://gu.com/p/47p56

 

Now why would a party that is haemorrhaging traditional support on the left to the SNP, undermining its chances of an outright victory in the election, play up the SNP bogeyman?

 

The world works in mysterious ways.

[Torres]

No idea shurlock - the only reason you're allowed to be worried about the SNP is that you've fallen for right-wing propaganda. [emoji106]

[Verbal]

And are you also going to admit that Milliband and Clegg also deserve some of the blame too, being as how balanced and even-handed you would like to consider yourself? After all, they all three supported taking action against the tyrannical regime there. The foul whiff of hypocrisy fills the air over this attempt to besmirch Cameron, when Milliband also instrumental in the events. He says that the Tories should have followed up the toppling of Gaddafi with measures to stabilise the region, but Milliband decided that apart from a few muted mutterings in February, the time to raise that matter was in the middle of an election campaign, when he cynically planned for it to overshadow the Tories announcement of their policy to have English laws made the exclusive territory of English MPs.

 

At least Clegg had the decency to condemn Milliband's cynical ploy. Do you?

 

As an aside, these migrants are not exclusively Libyans; they comprise a significant proportion fleeing conflicts in Syria, Somalia and other parts of sub-Saharan Africa. This article throws some perspective onto the situation and although it is not up to date post Gaddafi, it illustrates that the problem existed long before his demise:-

 

http://www.imi.ox.ac.uk/pdfs/Irregular%20migration%20from%20West%20Africa%20-%20Hein%20de%20Haas.pdf

 

What are you getting into such a confused frenzy about? If you'd asked anyone who's reasonably informed about post-Gaddafi Libya, they'd have brought up the failure of the West to implement post-war reconstruction policies, repeating the mistakes made in Iraq. Why is it suddenly 'cynical' for Miliband to raise it as an issue? Yes, he voted for war, but the issue was, and remains, not the war itself but what do to afterwards. Those in government, rather than opposition, clearly bear the responsibility for the failure to address this, and therefore laid the conditions for what we now see in the Med.

 

There is in fact quite a lot known about how to go about post-war reconstruction, and while it's far from a perfect art, it's been applied reasonably successfully elsewhere, in west and central Africa, for example, and in the Balkans.

 

By making this an issue, I hope, as I'm sure you do, that when Miliband forms the next government he addresses this issue early on and urgently.

 

Or are you just making a silly, partisan point from your kipper island?

[hutch]

What are you getting into such a confused frenzy about? If you'd asked anyone who's reasonably informed about post-Gaddafi Libya, they'd have brought up the failure of the West to implement post-war reconstruction policies, repeating the mistakes made in Iraq. Why is it suddenly 'cynical' for Miliband to raise it as an issue? Yes, he voted for war, but the issue was, and remains, not the war itself but what do to afterwards. Those in government, rather than opposition, clearly bear the responsibility for the failure to address this, and therefore laid the conditions for what we now see in the Med.

 

There is in fact quite a lot known about how to go about post-war reconstruction, and while it's far from a perfect art, it's been applied reasonably successfully elsewhere, in west and central Africa, for example, and in the Balkans.

 

By making this an issue, I hope, as I'm sure you do, that when Miliband forms the next government he addresses this issue early on and urgently.

 

Or are you just making a silly, partisan point from your kipper island?

All of that may well be true (except the bit about Milliband forming the next government, of course) but is it relevant to the overwhelming majority of migrants, that hail from sub-saharan African states?

[Coxford_lou]

What are you getting into such a confused frenzy about? If you'd asked anyone who's reasonably informed about post-Gaddafi Libya, they'd have brought up the failure of the West to implement post-war reconstruction policies, repeating the mistakes made in Iraq. Why is it suddenly 'cynical' for Miliband to raise it as an issue? Yes, he voted for war, but the issue was, and remains, not the war itself but what do to afterwards. Those in government, rather than opposition, clearly bear the responsibility for the failure to address this, and therefore laid the conditions for what we now see in the Med.

 

There is in fact quite a lot known about how to go about post-war reconstruction, and while it's far from a perfect art, it's been applied reasonably successfully elsewhere, in west and central Africa, for example, and in the Balkans.

 

 

Yes! #teamverbal

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

What are you getting into such a confused frenzy about? If you'd asked anyone who's reasonably informed about post-Gaddafi Libya, they'd have brought up the failure of the West to implement post-war reconstruction policies, repeating the mistakes made in Iraq. Why is it suddenly 'cynical' for Miliband to raise it as an issue? Yes, he voted for war, but the issue was, and remains, not the war itself but what do to afterwards. Those in government, rather than opposition, clearly bear the responsibility for the failure to address this, and therefore laid the conditions for what we now see in the Med.

 

There is in fact quite a lot known about how to go about post-war reconstruction, and while it's far from a perfect art, it's been applied reasonably successfully elsewhere, in west and central Africa, for example, and in the Balkans.

 

By making this an issue, I hope, as I'm sure you do, that when Miliband forms the next government he addresses this issue early on and urgently.

 

Or are you just making a silly, partisan point from your kipper island?

 

Its cynical because he did not raise it at the time and has waited until an election to do so to try and link the tragic migrant deaths to Cameron. In fact his view at the time was;

 

“This is an important moment to recognise the National Transitional Council and their role in taking Libya forward and we’ve got to be led by them. It’s very important that Libyans determine their future.”

[aintforever]

Yeah i don't really get it either. They seem to have a few areas where they have a very loyal base, like Eastleigh.

 

When i lived near Winchester i remember lots of upper middle class type homes would be decked out in Lib Dem boards.

There's no point voting for anyone else in Eastleigh, it's Lib Dem v the Tories. If you're gonna vote for anyone else you might as well not bother. The Lib Dem vote held up in the bi-election, no reason to think it won't do the same this time.

 

It's where they are up against Labour I expect their vote will collapse.

[Smirking_Saint]

What is everyones thoughts on Labours proposed rent caps ? Personally I see it as a potential 'vote swinger' that in reality is destined to fail long term. I just dont see how you could possibly control it.

 

Its similar to the energy price freeze policy that they championed for so long. All in all its just a load of political blustering of which IMO is destined really to fail miserably. We are already seeing what a think will be a reduced spend on network infrastructure at least over the next 2-3 years to try to claw money back that would potentially be lost. And lets be honest, we all know whats coming after the freeze

[Batman]

What is everyones thoughts on Labours proposed rent caps ? Personally I see it as a potential 'vote swinger' that in reality is destined to fail long term. I just dont see how you could possibly control it.

 

Its similar to the energy price freeze policy that they championed for so long. All in all its just a load of political blustering of which IMO is destined really to fail miserably. We are already seeing what a think will be a reduced spend on network infrastructure at least over the next 2-3 years to try to claw money back that would potentially be lost. And lets be honest, we all know whats coming after the freeze

 

the rent cap would be for 3 years. then the rent will go up 3 years worth in one go

apparently, New York and in Germany, they use this. Those two places are looking to move away from it as it does not work (apparently)

[Ex Lion Tamer]

What is everyones thoughts on Labours proposed rent caps ? Personally I see it as a potential 'vote swinger' that in reality is destined to fail long term. I just dont see how you could possibly control it.

 

Its similar to the energy price freeze policy that they championed for so long. All in all its just a load of political blustering of which IMO is destined really to fail miserably. We are already seeing what a think will be a reduced spend on network infrastructure at least over the next 2-3 years to try to claw money back that would potentially be lost. And lets be honest, we all know whats coming after the freeze

I'm pretty disappointed that it's being portrayed as some draconian price freeze. Rents levels will still be decided by the market, it's just that each property rent amount will be set every three years rather than every one year.

 

It's not exactly hard for landlords to average their costs over three years is it?

 

Anyone who rents in London will be saying yes yes yes to this policy, it's so grim bring forced to move every year at the landlord's say so

Edited 26 April, 2015 by Ex Lion Tamer

[pap]

What is everyones thoughts on Labours proposed rent caps ? Personally I see it as a potential 'vote swinger' that in reality is destined to fail long term. I just dont see how you could possibly control it.

 

Its similar to the energy price freeze policy that they championed for so long. All in all its just a load of political blustering of which IMO is destined really to fail miserably. We are already seeing what a think will be a reduced spend on network infrastructure at least over the next 2-3 years to try to claw money back that would potentially be lost. And lets be honest, we all know whats coming after the freeze

 

I've been speaking of rent controls for years. They've been implemented elsewhere in the world without bringing society crashing down.

 

Dunno why you think this can't be controlled. If we can use our law and legal system to send people around to enforce the debt system, then I'm sure those same legislative levers can be employed to enforce rent controls. Detection not exactly going to be hard, is it?

 

"Hey! The law says I should only pay this rent, and I'm getting charged more"

 

Now I know you may well be worried by the fallout. Landlords might have to (ulp) sell part or all of their property portfolio. Prices (ulp) might go down to reflect the availability of supply. People who are currently priced outside the city they work in might actually be able to have a decent standard of living in the city itself.

 

All terrible communist stuff, of course, but it's a fúckload better than what's going on in Brixton atm.

[Smirking_Saint]

I'm pretty disappointed that it's being portrayed as some draconian price freeze. Rents levels will still be decided by the market, it's just that each property rent amount will be set every three years rather than every one year.

 

Anyone who rents in London will be saying yes yes yes to this policy, it's so grim bring forced to move every year at the landlord's say so

 

Im fully in support of the minimum 3 year contract. Ive never been in rented accomodation but surely this day and age there is something very wrong about not allowing people to have security of accomodation. The landlords are making enough out of the situation, at the very least tenants should be awarded security

[Ex Lion Tamer]

the rent cap would be for 3 years. then the rent will go up 3 years worth in one go

apparently, New York and in Germany, they use this. Those two places are looking to move away from it as it does not work (apparently)

Do you have a link? If true if be interested to have a read

[Batman]

Do you have a link? If true if be interested to have a read

 

was on BBC earlier.

Andrew Marr show.

[pap]

Do you have a link? If true if be interested to have a read

 

Ha, you're kidding right?

 

Substantiation is not for him.

[pap]

was on BBC earlier.

 

The ever impartial BBC, eh?

 

I think I'd rather hear from people that benefit from the policy (and can explain it better than Jamie via the BBC).

 

Ex-Lion-Tamer, fill your boots. Jamie; get someone to read the contents of this link out to you.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_control

[Smirking_Saint]

I've been speaking of rent controls for years. They've been implemented elsewhere in the world without bringing society crashing down.

 

Dunno why you think this can't be controlled. If we can use our law and legal system to send people around to enforce the debt system, then I'm sure those same legislative levers can be employed to enforce rent controls. Detection not exactly going to be hard, is it?

 

"Hey! The law says I should only pay this rent, and I'm getting charged more"

 

Now I know you may well be worried by the fallout. Landlords might have to (ulp) sell part or all of their property portfolio. Prices (ulp) might go down to reflect the availability of supply. People who are currently priced outside the city they work in might actually be able to have a decent standard of living in the city itself.

 

All terrible communist stuff, of course, but it's a fúckload better than what's going on in Brixton atm.

 

But its not tackling the root cause is it ? Its effectively burrying their heads in the sand over what the issues actually are. Both the rent crisis and energy price can be summed up simply buy a higher demand than there is supply. Or, to put it more pertinantly, not enough surplus of supply.

 

Both these issues are controlled by market forces. And both needed to have the incumbant government to actually act. And I blame both the tories and labour for it. We have needed more housing and more power stations for years, yet every government is happier to point the fingers at the big six and landlords rather then tackling the real issues.

 

3 year rental contracts are a good thing, trying to control rent is unfortunately, IMO, destined to fail.

[Batman]

 

3 year rental contracts are a good thing, trying to control rent is unfortunately, IMO, destined to fail.

 

3 year contract..what if the proposed tenant does not want to commit to 3 years?