TwoPints Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 LOL. Lord Winston is not standing for election, and has not published a leaflet claiming his ideas are "common sense solutions" like our car-banning crackpot friend. There really is no comparison. And you are getting jolly huffy about this 200 quid thing but even a cursory read of the reports of this oh so dreadful idea show that it is little more than Sir Bob musing about how people don't see the value of the NHS. I can't actually see a direct quote where he actually says what you say, but I can see the Daily Mail artfully spinning it, primarily to wind the likes of you up. Job done, I reckon. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoPints Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 Lol at UKIP not being establishment. Of all their ********, this is the biggest load. 2MPs, both former Tory MPs. A leader who was a former Tory activist. And a stock broker in the city. The majority of their funding comes from former Tory backers. Not to mention the countless other Tories, such as Neil Hamilton who play a prominent role in the party. Oh and his entire ideal is pretty much delivering the uk back to some mythical 1950(ish) ideal of Britain that only really exists in fantasy where straight white men have all power and are utterly beyond reproach. Are you capable of not swallowing a single word that comes out of Farages mouth without question? Actually ... this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 (edited) Agreed, let's hope Nigel doesnt follow the establishment and jerrymander a crony into the lords. Except Farage has already been grizzling about how he hasn't got enough of his own Lords in the second chamber. Ooh that white, middle aged ex - banker, 20 year career politician is, like, sooo anti-establishment. LOL. Edited 23 January, 2015 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 Good political move to get a UKIP lord. Adds a degree of permanency to the party as the are there for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 Good political move to get a UKIP lord. Adds a degree of permanency to the party as the are there for life. You wouldn't catch those firebrand anti-establishment rebels like Mark Reckless and Douglas Carswell saying that kind of stuff. I mean, it sounds like the kind of attitude a long standing Conservative MP would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 The reason Tory MPs are defecting to UKIP is pure self interest, they want to keep their own noses in the trough and see 'everyman' Nige and his 1950's ideal as a threat to their expense sheets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 Defecting the other way now as well. Still who would want to be associated with this lot http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-general-secretary-calls-nhs-5037494 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 Defecting the other way now as well. Still who would want to be associated with this lot http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-general-secretary-calls-nhs-5037494 Oh dear. Time for Lord Duckhunter to have yet another scrape in his "ah yes, but this person vaguely connected with Labour said THIS" barrel. Come on, Lord D, bring out another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 Lol at UKIP not being establishment. Of all their ********, this is the biggest load. 2MPs, both former Tory MPs. A leader who was a former Tory activist. And a stock broker in the city. The majority of their funding comes from former Tory backers. Not to mention the countless other Tories, such as Neil Hamilton who play a prominent role in the party. Oh and his entire ideal is pretty much delivering the uk back to some mythical 1950(ish) ideal of Britain that only really exists in fantasy where straight white men have all power and are utterly beyond reproach. Are you capable of not swallowing a single word that comes out of Farages mouth without question? Nigel 'Everything's the EU's fault' Farage has also been an MEP since the 1990s. Their a party that's merely written their entire manifesto based around what disillusioned established party voters want to hear. Complete with a leader clever enough to con a significant amount of the electorate into thinking any of it will actually work. The more power they get, the more they'll be found out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 Nigel 'Everything's the EU's fault' Farage has also been an MEP since the 1990s. Their a party that's merely written their entire manifesto based around what disillusioned established party voters want to hear. Complete with a leader clever enough to con a significant amount of the electorate into thinking any of it will actually work. The more power they get, the more they'll be found out. Well, they're hardly likely to publish manifesto promises that are going to alienate the majority of the electorate, are they? It's the main parties' own stupid fault. A significant amount of the electorate want to have their say on whether they wish to remain in the EU, having seen our continuing loss of sovereignty through successive EU treaties that they have been denied a say on. UKIP is essentially a one issue party and the European Elections were their platform and the voting public gave the main parties a right kicking on their broken promises to hold a referendum. Now a General Election approaches and UKIP naturally have to prepare a manifesto covering a whole raft of policies, just as the other fringe parties have to. Ultimately the voting public have several good reasons to vote for them apart from their policies. Including this disillusionment over the broken referendum promises, there will be many registering a protest vote because they are fed up with the main parties and many will vote tactically to get rid of their sitting MPs, as I will, to get rid of the Lib Dem MP in Eastleigh. UKIP's best hope is to gain sufficient seats to hold the balance of power and that way they can insist on a referendum on Europe as a priority for the early stages of the Parliament. Additionally they can play a major part in sorting out the West Lothian question at long last. That is likely to be brought to a head if the SNP pick up a significant number of seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 Farage is heading down a cul-de-sac. Or dead end in English! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 Well, they're hardly likely to publish manifesto promises that are going to alienate the majority of the electorate, are they? It's the main parties' own stupid fault. A significant amount of the electorate want to have their say on whether they wish to remain in the EU, having seen our continuing loss of sovereignty through successive EU treaties that they have been denied a say on. UKIP is essentially a one issue party and the European Elections were their platform and the voting public gave the main parties a right kicking on their broken promises to hold a referendum. Now a General Election approaches and UKIP naturally have to prepare a manifesto covering a whole raft of policies, just as the other fringe parties have to. Ultimately the voting public have several good reasons to vote for them apart from their policies. Including this disillusionment over the broken referendum promises, there will be many registering a protest vote because they are fed up with the main parties and many will vote tactically to get rid of their sitting MPs, as I will, to get rid of the Lib Dem MP in Eastleigh. UKIP's best hope is to gain sufficient seats to hold the balance of power and that way they can insist on a referendum on Europe as a priority for the early stages of the Parliament. Additionally they can play a major part in sorting out the West Lothian question at long last. That is likely to be brought to a head if the SNP pick up a significant number of seats. No, but they need to base a manifesto around some sort of consistent political ideology, which goes deeper than jumping on the bandwagon of any popular alternative viewpoint and basing a policy around it. (See Lib Dems/tuition fees and how that went) I would agree that the main parties have been very complacent when it comes to UKIP but they are only going to be a relative fad. UKIP is wholly reliant on EU scepticism, playing the anti-establishment card and Nigel Farage. The party has no discipline or deep ideology, their only success has come from politically established defectors from other parties fooling the general populace they are in some way "new". The party is largely made up of recycled oddballs that have left other parties and don't even sing from the same hymn sheet. The problem UKIP has is that in a few years time the wider public will have known them in mainstream politics for a number of years and their anti-establishment rhetoric won't work. The EU will gradually sort some of their mess out and UKIP's selling point will increasingly become an insignificance. Even if UKIP achieve major success in May, they'll just go the same way as the Lib Dems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 Why do they have to formulate manifesto policies that go deeper than jumping on the bandwagon of any popular alternative? Surely it is sensible to take account of the popular views of the electorate if one wishes to pick up votes. The Lib Dems have been trying to do that for donkeys' years and it was only when they got the opportunity to help form the coalition government that they were found out, but nevertheless they still managed to put a spanner in the works when it came to holding an EU referendum during this Parliament and now they will pay the price of losing seats hand over fist to UKIP as a result. Of course UKIP is just a fad, because as I say, they are a one policy party. Had the past governments had the guts to have held a referendum on Europe, there would be no need for UKIP. But because they didn't, they have allowed them to grasp the nettle on other nationalistic issues, the next big one which is going to be having a devolved parliament for England, which is another populist policy, therefore a vote winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 Political parties' manifestos should be based on their principles, not necessarily the same as the popular view. This is where the LibDems fail - they are seasoned fence sitters, saying what they think people want to hear. In local politics, this sometimes means that LibDems say one thing in one area and a diametrically opposite thing in another area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 Political parties' manifestos should be based on their principles, not necessarily the same as the popular view. This is where the LibDems fail - they are seasoned fence sitters, saying what they think people want to hear. In local politics, this sometimes means that LibDems say one thing in one area and a diametrically opposite thing in another area. Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 (edited) Call me Dave's not going to be happy with Andrew Neil tonight. He needs the Greens to split the leftie vote, but watching Sunday politics they're bonkers. Bennett told Neil , they'll abolish the army and replace it with a " home defence force " ( don't panic Mr manwarring ) , will make it legal to be a member of IS or the Real IRA. Leave nato and impose import tarrifs even on eu countries.They're also going to give everyone £72 a week whether they need it or not. Neil worked out this would cost £280 billion , how will they pay for it? By abolishing JSA and child benefit. When it was pointed out that would leave them £272 million short, rest assured she will spell out the rest in her manifesto. It will also abolish tax free allowances, as Andrew pointed out thats worth 10k a year and their citizens wage of £72 is 3k a year. Even the bankers and millionaires get the £72. Nice... It really was bonkers, anyone thinking of voting for these clowns should watch it. Car crash interview. Edited 25 January, 2015 by Lord Duckhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 Call me Dave's not going to be happy with Andrew Neil tonight. He needs the Greens to split the leftie vote, but watching Sunday politics they're bonkers. Bennett told Neil , they'll abolish the army and replace it with a " home defence force " ( don't panic Mr manwarring ) , will make it legal to be a member of IS or the Real IRA. Leave nato and impose import tarrifs even on eu countries.They're also going to give everyone £72 a week whether they need it or not. Neil worked out this would cost £280 billion , how will they pay for it? By abolishing JSA and child benefit. When it was pointed out that would leave them £272 million short, rest assured she will spell out the rest in her manifesto. It will also abolish tax free allowances, as Andrew pointed out thats worth 10k a year and their citizens wage of £72 is 3k a year. Even the bankers and millionaires get the £72. Nice... It really was bonkers, anyone thinking of voting for these clowns should watch it. Car crash interview. what the feck??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 Just watched that Andrew Neil interview - the only way my X is now going on the ballot paper is if they print a 'none of the above' box. She is a mad as a box of frogs, is there any chance Australia would take her back ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 I think a Green vote is more about making a statement on the importance of environmental issues than anything, no one votes Green expecting them to form a government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 I think a Green vote is more about making a statement on the importance of environmental issues than anything, no one votes Green expecting them to form a government. But a lot of left-leaning folk living in a safe Tory constituency might well vote Green if they know their Labour candidate doesn't have a cat in hell's chance of winning. You never know, the Greens could well be part of the next coalition with Labour and the SNP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 Call me Dave's not going to be happy with Andrew Neil tonight. He needs the Greens to split the leftie vote, but watching Sunday politics they're bonkers. Bennett told Neil , they'll abolish the army and replace it with a " home defence force " ( don't panic Mr manwarring ) , will make it legal to be a member of IS or the Real IRA. Leave nato and impose import tarrifs even on eu countries.They're also going to give everyone £72 a week whether they need it or not. Neil worked out this would cost £280 billion , how will they pay for it? By abolishing JSA and child benefit. When it was pointed out that would leave them £272 million short, rest assured she will spell out the rest in her manifesto. It will also abolish tax free allowances, as Andrew pointed out thats worth 10k a year and their citizens wage of £72 is 3k a year. Even the bankers and millionaires get the £72. Nice... It really was bonkers, anyone thinking of voting for these clowns should watch it. Car crash interview. Anyone that wants to vote greens needs only to talk to anybody living in Brighton. Definate bonkers Im not entirely sure the Tories have anything to worry about, Lib Dems have shown themselves to be an even more non-vote then they were previously. The greens ? Well, we all know about them. Ukip show themselves to be thin on the ground politically and even more absent minded when you spend any amount of time listening to them. Labour is their only real competitor really, which is a scary thought as anybody that employs Diane Abbot or even worse is fronted by Milliband is on a hiding to nothing. As a party that is suppose to be, for the people, they are so far away it isnt true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 Should be interesting to see what happens to Euro tomorrow after Greek elections. Don't know much about Syriza although UKIP are already claiming their victory validates them. Hmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 Greens getting a lot of clog on social media after that performance . someone described it as a "bicycle crash of an interview", which made me lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 January, 2015 Author Share Posted 25 January, 2015 For anyone who missed it.... [video=youtube_share;5dFn8RIXOBE]http://youtu.be/5dFn8RIXOBE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 January, 2015 Author Share Posted 25 January, 2015 no one votes Green expecting them to form a government. People used to say that about the Lib Dems not too many years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 just watched that just plain odd. one of the most disturbing political interviews of that kind I have seen in..probably ever for the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 Call me Dave's not going to be happy with Andrew Neil tonight. He needs the Greens to split the leftie vote, but watching Sunday politics they're bonkers. Bennett told Neil , they'll abolish the army and replace it with a " home defence force " ( don't panic Mr manwarring ) , will make it legal to be a member of IS or the Real IRA. Leave nato and impose import tarrifs even on eu countries.They're also going to give everyone £72 a week whether they need it or not. Neil worked out this would cost £280 billion , how will they pay for it? By abolishing JSA and child benefit. When it was pointed out that would leave them £272 million short, rest assured she will spell out the rest in her manifesto. It will also abolish tax free allowances, as Andrew pointed out thats worth 10k a year and their citizens wage of £72 is 3k a year. Even the bankers and millionaires get the £72. Nice... It really was bonkers, anyone thinking of voting for these clowns should watch it. Car crash interview. The 72 quid thing a week is utterly bizarre. Why on earth do people expect something for nothing from the state? It's an increasingly competitive world and the Greens have this odd idea that here in the UK we can sit around drinking lentil soup all day, taxing the rich into the ground and opening are borders to the whole world. What could possibly go wrong? The Greens are attracting a lot of support from young people, which i see in my friends, people think they're a 'nice' vote, but they need to actually read their authoritarian, verging communist manifesto and ask themselves if they genuinely want to live in that kind of country. The vilifying of successful business people we see from The Greens and people like Brand is worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 In another political development tonight George Galloway has just said Call Me Dave's latest MEP was chucked out of Respect for dodgy dealings. He's gone from a Tory, to Respect, to UKIP and now back to Tories, wow that's some journey . I couldn't help but think the way Andrew Neil quizzed Grant ****s today , something's going to bite them in the rear over this . He kept on about vetting and about being sure you want his type as an mep. Further quote from Galloway adds fuel to this fire. " I have the documentation including photographs which prove Tory MEP Amjad to be a despicable liar. Cameron will rue this day ". All very intriguing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 For anyone who missed it.... [video=youtube_share;5dFn8RIXOBE]http://youtu.be/5dFn8RIXOBE I just watched that, thanks for posting the link. She's absolutely barking mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 Interesting to see Greece make a massive swing to the left. I can see them blowing off all their debt and leaving the Euro now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 Interesting to see Greece make a massive swing to the left. I can see them blowing off all their debt and leaving the Euro now. It's not the plan. Syriza are resolved to staying in the EU and reforming it, if at all possible. The result is not a surprise. They've been getting ever closer to an outright majority, and were the largest party in the last set of elections. What is different now is the level of negotiation they'll have to do to form a government. They just need to keep the Greek Independents and the Communist parties on-board and they are good. I am looking forward to seeing how the EU deals with anti-austerity Greece. Bluff well and truly called by the Greek electorate there. Syriza have been making the right moves for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 Are none of the Green Party supporters on here going to defend them? The best we've had is "oh but we don't really expect them to form a government". The Citizens Income seems like the left wing version of the flat tax to me, the idea that efficiency from simplifying the system will make up for all its deficiencies. I've really been trying hard to let the Greens impress me, and voted for then in the euro elections. but they do seem to be a bit too idealistic to be a serious option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 It's not the plan. Syriza are resolved to staying in the EU and reforming it, if at all possible. The result is not a surprise. They've been getting ever closer to an outright majority, and were the largest party in the last set of elections. What is different now is the level of negotiation they'll have to do to form a government. They just need to keep the Greek Independents and the Communist parties on-board and they are good. I am looking forward to seeing how the EU deals with anti-austerity Greece. Bluff well and truly called by the Greek electorate there. Syriza have been making the right moves for years. I'm not sure there's enough room for compromise, what they are planning is polar opposite to what the EU want and I think most Greeks are in a position where they have nothing to lose. Will definitely be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 I'm not sure there's enough room for compromise, what they are planning is polar opposite to what the EU want and I think most Greeks are in a position where they have nothing to lose. Will definitely be interesting. It certainly will be. Proper left-wing coalition gaining power for the first time since neo-liberalism took hold. I think all of your points are arguably valid, except I'd probably go for "everything to gain" rather than nothing to lose. The refrain amongst the Greeks during the worst days of troika-imposed austerity was "are they trying to kill us?". Syriza built their support on grass roots solidarity (e.g. helping out those affected by austerity) and have become a bit of a model for left movements elsewhere. I've seen their people speak twice at Left Unity events, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 Are none of the Green Party supporters on here going to defend them? The best we've had is "oh but we don't really expect them to form a government". The Citizens Income seems like the left wing version of the flat tax to me, the idea that efficiency from simplifying the system will make up for all its deficiencies. I've really been trying hard to let the Greens impress me, and voted for then in the euro elections. but they do seem to be a bit too idealistic to be a serious option Lucas has tried to mount a salvage operation. Claimed that the £72 is under review because they've realised it impacts the poor and makes them worse off than now. On Westminster hour R4 she said they're still committed to £72 for every man, women and CHILD ( dear god) in the country , but may have to bung the poor a bit more. Its not about a simplified tax system , Bennett herself said its about allowing people to do less full time work and not live in " fear" . Although this Home Defence Force frightens me more than me, Mrs duck and our brats picking up £288 a week from the state, especially if I have an Al Qaeda social club in the neighbourhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 Mrs duck and our brats picking up £288 a week from the state, especially if I have an Al Qaeda social club in the neighbourhood. I had you down as more of a British Legion kind of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 £72 wk is an easy commitment to keep - just inflate our way out of it. 12 months of 10,000% inflation and the cost to the state ceases to be a problem. This economics business is a piece of p1ss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 Interesting analogy on some of the broader aspects of potential aliances post-election and what their price for coalition would be, if there is no overall majority. http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/general-election-2015/62247/election-2015-how-long-can-this-green-party-joke-last UKIP would work with the Conservatives provided that the referendum was brought forward to this year and that only British nationals would be allowed to vote, thus excluding the 4 million or so EU citizens working over here. Both points seem pretty fair to me, especially bringing forward the referendum date. That was fixed at 2017 at the start of the last Parliament, which is ridiculous. The SNP would work with Labour, and would wish to stay in Europe. Their price would be that each of the home countries comprising the UK would have to have an individual majority to leave before the decision could be ratified. As it is the UK as a whole that has EU membership, this is obviously a nonsense. It is a vote for the whole of the UK, so a simple majority should suffice either way. Apart from anything else, the vast majority of the population of the UK is England based and the loony SNP would typically have it that the tail can wag the dog. Regarding the TV debates, it seems that Cameron has played a blinder insisting that the Greens are represented and therefore other smaller parties should also be represented too. As is pointed out, that way he will face only a much diluted assault from UKIP, whereas the other major parties will also have their airtime diluted by the Greens and SNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 Interesting analogy on some of the broader aspects of potential aliances post-election and what their price for coalition would be, if there is no overall majority. http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/general-election-2015/62247/election-2015-how-long-can-this-green-party-joke-last UKIP would work with the Conservatives provided that the referendum was brought forward to this year and that only British nationals would be allowed to vote, thus excluding the 4 million or so EU citizens working over here. Both points seem pretty fair to me, especially bringing forward the referendum date. That was fixed at 2017 at the start of the last Parliament, which is ridiculous. The SNP would work with Labour, and would wish to stay in Europe. Their price would be that each of the home countries comprising the UK would have to have an individual majority to leave before the decision could be ratified. As it is the UK as a whole that has EU membership, this is obviously a nonsense. It is a vote for the whole of the UK, so a simple majority should suffice either way. Apart from anything else, the vast majority of the population of the UK is England based and the loony SNP would typically have it that the tail can wag the dog. Regarding the TV debates, it seems that Cameron has played a blinder insisting that the Greens are represented and therefore other smaller parties should also be represented too. As is pointed out, that way he will face only a much diluted assault from UKIP, whereas the other major parties will also have their airtime diluted by the Greens and SNP. What it demonstrates is that the broadcasters know that any election debate without the incumbent PM is utterly pointless. All the noise from Libs and UKIP about empty chairs was just that, noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 What it demonstrates is that the broadcasters know that any election debate without the incumbent PM is utterly pointless. All the noise from Libs and UKIP about empty chairs was just that, noise. Yes, but what the media wanted was just a debate between the Conservatives, Labour, the Lib Dems and UKIP. As you say, a debate without the PM would have been a joke, so Cameron was able to force them to include the minor parties, which suits him and reduces the possibility of some fireworks, as each leader will have less time point-scoring against each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 Yes, but what the media wanted was just a debate between the Conservatives, Labour, the Lib Dems and UKIP. As you say, a debate without the PM would have been a joke, so Cameron was able to force them to include the minor parties, which suits him and reduces the possibility of some fireworks, as each leader will have less time point-scoring against each other. Ofcom who are independent deemed ukip & lib dems major parties. Last time they deemed it just the established 3 and therefore just the established 3 did the debates. Once you start deviating from ofcoms ruling it becomes a mess. As you say Cameron is just trying to make it farce so it doesn't happen, but he looks reasonable . He won't even want a head to head with Red Ed, why would he? Ed has nothing to lose. Not that it'll happen. Personally I don't like them, not whilst we have FPTP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 Ofcom who are independent deemed ukip & lib dems major parties. Last time they deemed it just the established 3 and therefore just the established 3 did the debates. Once you start deviating from ofcoms ruling it becomes a mess. As you say Cameron is just trying to make it farce so it doesn't happen, but he looks reasonable . He won't even want a head to head with Red Ed, why would he? Ed has nothing to lose. Not that it'll happen. Personally I don't like them, not whilst we have FPTP. I understand that it is proposed that there be a head to head debate between Cameron and Red Ed and a further two debates for all 7 parties. I read a proposal put up by somebody which seemed fairly sensible; that the only parties to be represented in the debates should have candidates in a half or more of the seats contested. That would queer the pitch nicely in terms of the SNP and Plaid Cymru, but the Welsh and Scots have their own assemblies, so sod them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 I understand that it is proposed that there be a head to head debate between Cameron and Red Ed and a further two debates for all 7 parties. I read a proposal put up by somebody which seemed fairly sensible; that the only parties to be represented in the debates should have candidates in a half or more of the seats contested. That would queer the pitch nicely in terms of the SNP and Plaid Cymru, but the Welsh and Scots have their own assemblies, so sod them. If the SNP & Plaid are in, why not Sinn Fein or the UDP ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 I understand that it is proposed that there be a head to head debate between Cameron and Red Ed and a further two debates for all 7 parties. I read a proposal put up by somebody which seemed fairly sensible; that the only parties to be represented in the debates should have candidates in a half or more of the seats contested. That would queer the pitch nicely in terms of the SNP and Plaid Cymru, but the Welsh and Scots have their own assemblies, so sod them. I love the fact that people still refer to Miliband the Younger as "Red Ed". This is the man that got his nod from the Unions for the leadership, then refused to march with them as the Tories decided to start dismembering the NHS, just so the wet f**king lettuce can appear as tough as Dave on spending and the economy. "Revolutionary biscuits of victory! Rise up out of your box! You have nothing to lose but your wafers! Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum" That reference will be lost on many, I'm sure - but "Red Ed" will be up that sh!t like the Aurora up the Neva. What a Communist! I salute you Comrade Ed, and look forward to the glorious revolution (of the political merry go round). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 If the SNP & Plaid are in, why not Sinn Fein or the UDP ? BBC person was asked this the other day and said it was because of a different political landscape in Norn Iron - ie those parties tend to compete directly with each other rather than against the Tories or Labour. That's the reason given, not my view. My view is the seven party debates will be a total dogs dinner. Mission accomplished David Cameron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 7 party debate Got to love the UK. What a waste of time in an effort to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 It is a sign of how desperate the Tories are, Cameron would rather take the hit of being the chicken than face being taken to the cleaners by Farage. I guess 'Clegg Mania' from last time is still fresh in his mind. They must be really worried about their vote getting split. It will be interesting to see how the rise of UKIP will effect the marginals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 26 January, 2015 Share Posted 26 January, 2015 It is a sign of how desperate the Tories are, Cameron would rather take the hit of being the chicken than face being taken to the cleaners by Farage. I guess 'Clegg Mania' from last time is still fresh in his mind. They must be really worried about their vote getting split. It will be interesting to see how the rise of UKIP will effect the marginals. all PMs would rather give a debate a wide berth, they can only really lose. nearly all PMs in history get less and less popular as they stay in office Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 27 January, 2015 Share Posted 27 January, 2015 I love the fact that people still refer to Miliband the Younger as "Red Ed". This is the man that got his nod from the Unions for the leadership, then refused to march with them as the Tories decided to start dismembering the NHS, just so the wet f**king lettuce can appear as tough as Dave on spending). And don't forget he endorsed The Sun. Ironic that the unions have probably done more to eradicate worker's right by ensuring more Tory rule and austerity come May. Had David been elected Labour would be much further ahead in the polls - we're all suckers for a bit of charisma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 27 January, 2015 Share Posted 27 January, 2015 7 party debate Got to love the UK. What a waste of time in an effort to be fair Media-sponsored nonsense, best left to the Student Union hustings where it belongs and leave the grown-ups to get on with running the Country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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