pap Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 What an excellent piece of work! Based on this Mirror report, which provides facts and figures outside of London. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/right-to-buy-housing-shame-third-ex-council-1743338 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Danny Alexander on 5live, I do like the Lib Dems, quite obviously the most honest party out there, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 (edited) Right to Buy = Buy To Let in London. http://tomcopley.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/From-Right-to-Buy-to-Buy-to-Let-Jan-2014.pdf This is before the latest proposed change. UJ and Torres will be pleased to know that facts and figures are provided in some detail. I am looking forward to their detailed analysis. Go boys! Just had a very quick look, isn't that just showing that around a third of the council properties sold are now buy to let? I thought this was already mentioned earlier in the thread. Not sure if there as only skim reading, but I saw no reference to the practices we've been debating today. I apologise if it is mind, just haven't got time to read it as getting my little girl bathed and into bed. Edited 15 April, 2015 by Unbelievable Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 (edited) Right to Buy = Buy To Let in London. http://tomcopley.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/From-Right-to-Buy-to-Buy-to-Let-Jan-2014.pdf This is before the latest proposed change. UJ and Torres will be pleased to know that facts and figures are provided in some detail. I am looking forward to their detailed analysis. Go boys! Interesting article, but as with all political dogma, the financials associated to RTB only focus on the downside of RTB (Such as loss of rent for local authorities, housing benefit being paid to private landlords etc), however very little is made to the upsides. And there are some upsides... Forgetting the benefit of the sale of the house in the first place and the money it generates... - Private landlords pay stamp duty when they purchase those properties - Former tennants pay stamp duty on the new houses they purchase - Private landlords pay capital gains tax when they sell those houses - Maintenance of those properties is taken into the private sector, thus reducing LA costs - Tax is paid on rental profits by the private landlords (after MITR) - If funds are re-invested in new/more stock, there will be capital appreciation of that stock and rental income from said stock Now it may be the case that these upsides don't cover the all of downsides, I accept that, but I dont accept the losses without the upsides. To simplify the argument and claim that the taxpayer loses out full stop is a tad misleading, as new income streams for the taxpayer are clearly created. I would really love to know the NET financial effect of RTB on the taxpayer, as opposed to the politicallly skewed but inaccurate ascertation that the tax payer loses full stop, because taking the above into account, the loss cannot be as great as some people like Tom Copley are making out. If managed correctly, particularly taking my last bullet point into account, it could actually have a NET positive effect. Edited 15 April, 2015 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Well, it's evidently more research than you've ever done on the subject, Wes. How many times have you been educated about some facet of the Right to Buy scheme in this thread alone? Still, I'm sure your ragtag collection of unsubstantiated assumptions are easier to find on the Internet than my linked content proving the case. Keep on making the assumptions though, kid. It's worked out excellently for you so far. It's not just Westminster, and it wasn't just last year. I can remember people being targeted back in the day with sale and rent schemes. This document from the current government acknowledges that abuse of the system has taken place in the past, but it doesn't provide any figures, so it must be wrong https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/5936/2102605.pdf The issue is non-trivial enough so that government felt it had to cover it during the 2012 revamp of the scheme. I reckon you might be better off suggesting I'm going to turf me ma out on the street again. I haven't been educated on this thread regarding the RTB scheme, as I had enough of a grounding in it to begin with and have found out nothing particularly new, least of all that the scheme was open to some degree of abuse. Pretty well every scheme involving incentives, benefits and reductions is going to be open to abuse. But despite your research into the abuse, you have been unable to put any sort of percentage figure on it at all. I applaud the consistency of your debating style where you claim some degree of expertise and then when somebody calls you on it, you deride the intelligence of your questioners and throw a few insults in their direction. Andrew Neil would have a field day with you, claiming that you had some factual evidence gained through research and then being unable to quantify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 I haven't been educated on this thread regarding the RTB scheme, as I had enough of a grounding in it to begin with and have found out nothing particularly new, least of all that the scheme was open to some degree of abuse. Pretty well every scheme involving incentives, benefits and reductions is going to be open to abuse. But despite your research into the abuse, you have been unable to put any sort of percentage figure on it at all. I applaud the consistency of your debating style where you claim some degree of expertise and then when somebody calls you on it, you deride the intelligence of your questioners and throw a few insults in their direction. Andrew Neil would have a field day with you, claiming that you had some factual evidence gained through research and then being unable to quantify it. Wes, what is your point? You decry my style when I finally get exasperated with some of the content, moan at me for not producing figures, and yet, produce nothing evidentary apart from "where's your evidence?". Since then, I think we've more than established that it is a serious problem in London and elsewhere. So what is your fúcking beef, son? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 I always though Pap and Jeff were mates? Danny Alexander on 5live, I do like the Lib Dems, quite obviously the most honest party out there, I believe. That's what all the students thought before the last election.....nah, maybe most are but Nick Clegg is a lying snake. Or at best an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 That's what all the students thought before the last election.....nah, maybe most are but Nick Clegg is a lying snake. Or at best an idiot. He lost one high profile policy, that wasn't even one of their 5 main policies. To judge a parties success on that is extremely myopic, but a lot of people have have. It's a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 He lost one policy, that wasn't even one of their 5 main policies. To judge a parties success on that is extremely myopic, but a lot of people have have. It's a shame. People don't forget when he sat in many unions across the country and told bare-faced lies. He clearly forgets how long it was since the liberals last were in office. People don't forget and his party will be slaughtered at the ballot box mark my words. Either way, they tend to be rubbish in local government as well. Most of my family live in Poole and they've been truly awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 He lost one high profile policy, that wasn't even one of their 5 main policies. To judge a parties success on that is extremely myopic, but a lot of people have have. It's a shame. It was naive of nick not to recognise that that policy was the reason why many voted for him. He should have appeared to make much more of a fuss about it than he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 The Lib Dems got into power, but never really used it. They should have stood firm over tuition fees and didn't. They were done by 2011, imo. http://frigsociety.com/2011/05/10/where-next-for-the-liberal-democrats/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 It was naive of nick not to recognise that that policy was the reason why many voted for him. He should have appeared to make much more of a fuss about it than he did. Exactly, it wasn't a little lie. It was a massive one. I think you'll find along with being Tory-enablers, they'll never live it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Exactly, it wasn't a little lie. It was a massive one. I think you'll find along with being Tory-enablers, they'll never live it down. how was it a lie? how on earth will people cope when we have another coalition and pledges can't be kept....and people want more representation at government! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 The Lib Dems got into power, but never really used it. They should have stood firm over tuition fees and didn't. They were done by 2011, imo. http://frigsociety.com/2011/05/10/where-next-for-the-liberal-democrats/ I know it is impossible to discuss with you. http://www.markpack.org.uk/libdem-infographic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 how was it a lie? how on earth will people cope when we have another coalition and pledges can't be kept....and people want more representation at government! Well the Lib Dems won't be in it for a start. "if we get into power we'll drop student tutition fees" whilst you can wangle that into not being a lie. It's disgraceful. The polls suggest the liberals could all but be wiped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 I know it is impossible to discuss with you. http://www.markpack.org.uk/libdem-infographic/ Oh you can explain all you like but the tories are currently pushing through things that Maragret Thatcher wouldn't dare so if you've had any input at all....it's been very minimal/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 how was it a lie? how on earth will people cope when we have another coalition and pledges can't be kept....and people want more representation at government! Not sure we will tbh. Parties will now be scared of being like the lib dems and will make more of a fuss. The snp have already said they will support labour on an issue by issue basis which means they will make much more of a fuss about things they disagree with. I think either party could do worse than to appoint a competent female as their next leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Well the Lib Dems won't be in it for a start. "if we get into power we'll drop student tutition fees" whilst you can wangle that into not being a lie. It's disgraceful. The polls suggest the liberals could all but be wiped out. and the same would go for labour/conservative the next time they have to share power. They campaign to win (or they did)....when they fail to win they have to make concessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 The UKIP manifesto small print http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-small-print-ukip-manifesto-5524569 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 The UKIP manifesto small print http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-small-print-ukip-manifesto-5524569 the small print makes more sense than the headlines above them. some of it makes much sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 (edited) I know it is impossible to discuss with you. http://www.markpack.org.uk/libdem-infographic/ No, fair's fair. Getting May's Communication's Data Bill stopped was a good win for us all; it won't be reintroduced in the next Parliament. However, they leave themselves on dodgy ground in many areas. Their claim that they are cutting tax breaks for the rich is somewhat offset by the top rate of tax going down. Similarly, the pupil premium is dwarfed by the betrayal over tuition fees. They completely failed to deliver any sort of meaningful electoral reform, and while I can't blame them for the public not going for AV, once again, they could have dug their heels in and asked for PR to be put on the ballot. The latter really wouldn't have been an unreasonable demand; the public have to ratify it, after all. For a party so keen to trumpet its record on civil liberties, it's probably worth remembering that many of the Lib Dems against the main improvements in the Lobbying Bill. It's give away with one hand and take away with another. I'm happy to moderate (a bit) my statement about the Lib Dems not really using their power. I just wonder if they picked the right battles. Edited 15 April, 2015 by pap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 (edited) The UKIP manifesto small print http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-small-print-ukip-manifesto-5524569 Few of these clearly aren't ridiculous and the person writing the article has twisted the words to suit their agenda. Quite a few of them are nuts though. Edited 15 April, 2015 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 https://twitter.com/solmanofficial/status/588300236675743744 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 https://twitter.com/solmanofficial/status/588300236675743744 I think "But I am Sol Campbell" covers this. The principle of OBV seems alright, but crap implementation and questionable figurehead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 https://twitter.com/solmanofficial/status/588300236675743744 Can anyone do an operation white vote with pat Sharpe turning slowly blacker? Nothing wrong with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 To help out a little ... http://tomcopley.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/From-Right-to-Buy-to-Buy-to-Let-Jan-2014.pdf Right to Buy = Buy To Let in London. http://tomcopley.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/From-Right-to-Buy-to-Buy-to-Let-Jan-2014.pdf Is there an echo echo echo in here or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Can anyone do an operation white vote with pat Sharpe turning slowly blacker? Nothing wrong with that! My History teacher chaperoned a couple of kids to his House Of Fun game show, and did not give Pat Sharpe or the show a glowing report. Pat's was apparently mean to the other kids when the cameras weren't looking, and the show runners would leave kids caked in cold gunge for hours between takes. Look, the immediate thing to take away from this is "don't give Pat Sharpe more work". We can talk about the potential racism double standard thing later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Is there an echo echo echo in here or what? I humbly acknowledge saint si as the originator of that link. Didn't see it when he posted it, and meant no offence, even if Torres is doing his best to find some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 I humbly acknowledge saint si as the originator of that link. Didn't see it when he posted it, and meant no offence, even if Torres is doing his best to find some. Not at all pap, just pulling your leg. I'm having a glass of red - shall I pour you one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 A possible legal challenge to RTB housing association properties? http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/04/15/general-election-right-to-buy_n_7068904.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 My History teacher chaperoned a couple of kids to his House Of Fun game show, and did not give Pat Sharpe or the show a glowing report. Pat's was apparently mean to the other kids when the cameras weren't looking, and the show runners would leave kids caked in cold gunge for hours between takes. Look, the immediate thing to take away from this is "don't give Pat Sharpe more work". We can talk about the potential racism double standard thing later. I can't believe that a TV personality who had loads of kids round to his "fun house" to cover them in gunk during the 80s/90s hasn't been arrested yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Or why dont we educate people and do more on fire prevention to reduce the number of incidents. I think you will find that is part of the fire brigade's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 I think you will find that is part of the fire brigade's job. So I guess they are victims of their own success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 I can't believe that a TV personality who had loads of kids round to his "fun house" to cover them in gunk during the 80s/90s hasn't been arrested yet. He was tapping the twins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 So I guess they are victims of their own success Attending emergencies has always formed a small percentage of a firefighters working day(around 5-10% of available hours),they have always carried out fire prevention work, training, routine maintenance and legislative inspections of public places. Like I said, the important thing in saving lives is response times, if they are effected by the cuts it will cost lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 He was tapping the twins... To be fair....so would you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 I'm a bit surprised to see people characterising right-to-buy as stealing from the taxpayer, in order to give to those living in council houses. It's practically the very definition of wealth redistribution.so if i gave you £60,000 to £100,00 less for what your house is worth then whats its worth,you would be very happy and not class that as stealing:lol: god i heard some bs in my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 My History teacher chaperoned a couple of kids to his House Of Fun game show, and did not give Pat Sharpe or the show a glowing report. Pat's was apparently mean to the other kids when the cameras weren't looking, and the show runners would leave kids caked in cold gunge for hours between takes. Look, the immediate thing to take away from this is "don't give Pat Sharpe more work". We can talk about the potential racism double standard thing later. Around 1999 I was on a BBC programme and I had to go to television studios in London. There was a long corridor there full of funhouse photos. I considered it really odd considering I never viewed it as a jewel in the crown. Was it ever valued that highly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 As an aside to the rtb issue, just how many housing associations are there. Surely there could be some rationalisation here, save a bit of money and use the savings to build a few more houses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 As an aside to the rtb issue, just how many housing associations are there. Surely there could be some rationalisation here, save a bit of money and use the savings to build a few more houses There is - my daughter is an IT project manager for one of the largest ones. It has taken over a number of smaller associations and the most recent amalgamation is with a large HA in the north of England. She's worked her socks off on the IT implementation for the past two years and, when the project finally washes up at the end of this month, she'll be made redundant as she doesn't want to move her family to Oldham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 I apologise if it is mind, just haven't got time to read it as getting my little girl bathed and into bed. Surely hypochondriac can manage that by himself now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 There is - my daughter is an IT project manager for one of the largest ones. It has taken over a number of smaller associations and the most recent amalgamation is with a large HA in the north of England. She's worked her socks off on the IT implementation for the past two years and, when the project finally washes up at the end of this month, she'll be made redundant as she doesn't want to move her family to Oldham. Just looked it up, there are 1700!! That is 1700 CEOs and 1700 CFOs etc etc. Why on earth do we need that many? Sorry to hear about your daughter, hopefully she won't end up having to manage Pap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Just looked it up, there are 1700!! That is 1700 CEOs and 1700 CFOs etc etc. Why on earth do we need that many? Sorry to hear about your daughter, hopefully she won't end up having to manage Pap. Most of them were set up when local councils outsourced. There are 3 in my town. But a lot of them work well because they are local and are staffed by former council staff who know their stuff and their locality. It's not really up to us to say what is right and wrong as they are charitable organisations and have to be self-financing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Just looked it up, there are 1700!! That is 1700 CEOs and 1700 CFOs etc etc. Why on earth do we need that many? Sorry to hear about your daughter, hopefully she won't end up having to manage Pap. I'm sure we'd get on fine. I just took particular exception to UJ saying that the disadvantaged weren't grafting enough, when his job is a relative doss compared to many. Mine too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Most of them were set up when local councils outsourced. There are 3 in my town. But a lot of them work well because they are local and are staffed by former council staff who know their stuff and their locality. It's not really up to us to say what is right and wrong as they are charitable organisations and have to be self-financing. Fair enough that they need to be self funding, but there must be a way to save money here. For instance, if you merged the three in your town, it wouldnt be too hard to save a few hundred thousands which could then be used to build a couple of extra houses a year. It doesn't seem like much, but over the longer term it would increase the housing stock (subject to the Tories selling it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 career politician throwing out the party line at its best (I know they all do it. This highlights it nicely) http://www.theladbible.com/articles/video-of-ed-miliband-constantly-repeating-himself-has-gone-viral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 career politician throwing out the party line at its best (I know they all do it. This highlights it nicely) http://www.theladbible.com/articles/video-of-ed-miliband-constantly-repeating-himself-has-gone-viral When you're the leader, isn't everything you say the party line? It's for others to follow it/toe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 career politician throwing out the party line at its best (I know they all do it. This highlights it nicely) http://www.theladbible.com/articles/video-of-ed-miliband-constantly-repeating-himself-has-gone-viral We've been thinking about drawing up a bingo card for Georgie boy. How many times will he say 'long term economic plan' 'hard working families' etc. etc. Lost count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 We've been thinking about drawing up a bingo card for Georgie boy. How many times will he say 'long term economic plan' 'hard working families' etc. etc. Lost count. Going to do one for Miliband with the phrases "cost of living crisis", or any of the usual class war rhetoric that he has to resort to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 career politician throwing out the party line at its best (I know they all do it. This highlights it nicely) http://www.theladbible.com/articles/video-of-ed-miliband-constantly-repeating-himself-has-gone-viral You finally caught up with 2011, jamie? SPOILER ALERT: We make it to the premier league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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