General Election 2015

[View From The Top]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32260220

 

Tories resorting to unfunded spending pledges to try and cajole voters into voting for them. I would say they are at serious risk of losing a large share of their vote to UKIP, it's been an utterly p!ss poor campaign by the Conservatives so far - they should be storming ahead in the polls but they're failing to even gain a lead at the moment.

 

Latest YouGov poll (9-10 April)

LAB - 35% (+1)

CON - 33% (-2)

UKIP - 13% (+1)

LDEM - 8% (-0)

GRN - 5% (+1)

 

I get the impression that they are starting to panic.

 

I thought their campaign would be much sharper than it is but it has brought into focus how poor a front bench they have. So utterly dull and grey.

[Batman]

don't they all resort to 'unfunded' spending plans?

[View From The Top]

don't they all resort to 'unfunded' spending plans?

 

I'd say so but since the tories have been using "unfunded" as a stick to beat the others it does appear that the boot, at the moment, is on the other foot.

 

It's all bol loxs anyway.

[trousers]

The best you can say about the efficiency of the private sector is that sometimes, it is fiscally efficient. Successfully run firms will pull more cash than they spend. However, let's not kid ourselves. It's not efficient from a resources perspective. There is so much waste from so many quarters. Personal ambition, poor management and/or resource planning, feats of accounting prestidigitation by employing contractors, who don't appear on the headcount, rather than the permanent employees that do.

 

Now I'm not trying to pretend that the public sector does not suffer from many of the same problems. However, it's a nonsense to suggest that private industry is inherently any less dysfunctional than the public sector, particularly when it comes to resource management and efficiency. The main difference for me is the private sector's ability to raise and distribute cash as it sees fit. It doesn't have to debate or get a popular mandate. It just needs to make good commercial decisions.

 

Stepping back a bit and examining the system as a whole, it's terribly inefficient. If you and I economise, we're cutting our cloth. The economy is "make more and more stuff in the hope that it sells", endlessly. Western consumerism caters for wants far more than needs, which isn't very efficient. The market is mature enough to have gradation in almost every sector, with the lower end stuff being of poorer quality and a needing to be replace quicker than the higher end stuff.

 

One thing that makes me laugh is the claim that competition drives efficiency. I have no contention with the idea that it drives the internal efficiency of companies; show me a well-run firm that isn't looking to cut costs. The problem is that competition is inherently inefficient on a wider scale. Firms spend huge sums of money on product development, marketing and advertising in order to beat the other guy. We're locked into a yearly commercial release cycle which means that firms need to iterate their products, even if they are perfectly serviceable.

 

Cost is king, and the huge inequalities in the globalised system have stretched supply chain by thousands of miles, adding weeks of transit time, requiring someone out in the Far East to make sure the subcontractors are doing their jobs. It's convoluted, long-winded and requires so much workaround when things go wrong, but it still looks cheaper on paper. Same deal with this army of Indian hotshot coders that have been threatening my livelihood for the last two decades.

 

Fiscal efficiency ain't resource efficiency, and a lot of the time, the private sector cannot even manage that.

Totally agree with the saturation of off-shoring/on-shoring in the IT industry. Its a completely false economy. Where we used to deal with one or two experts we now find ourselves dealing with half a dozen (or more) resources that haven't got a clue, ergo projects end up taking much longer with more people. But, hey, the charge-out rate for each resource is c.75% cheaper than the old fashioned rate for people that knew what they were doing, so that's OK....

Edited 11 April, 2015 by trousers
@

[pap]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32260220

 

Tories resorting to unfunded spending pledges to try and cajole voters into voting for them. I would say they are at serious risk of losing a large share of their vote to UKIP, it's been an utterly p!ss poor campaign by the Conservatives so far - they should be storming ahead in the polls but they're failing to even gain a lead at the moment.

 

Latest YouGov poll (9-10 April)

LAB - 35% (+1)

CON - 33% (-2)

UKIP - 13% (+1)

LDEM - 8% (-0)

GRN - 5% (+1)

 

Early yet, Super Michael. There is plenty of time for the Conservative Party to sink to new depths in terms of its briefing. I do wonder how successful they'll be though. I've read that they are heavily focusing on the Ed factor, which I think could be counter-productive. Miliband has taken on and defused many of the labels thrown his way. He's a geek, nerd, especially about politics. He does look a bit like Wallace, and let's be honest, has a slightly whiny and pleady oratory style. He is perceivably vulnerable, something that the Tories are looking to exploit, and the reason I think it could backfire.

 

Barring the foaming few and perhaps the anti-semitic set, I don't get the sense that many people hate Miliband. Why would they? The main doubts centre on his perceived oddness and some of the people around him. People may not want him to be Prime Minister, but the British people aren't big on bullies (if evictions on our popular democratic contests are anything to go by!), and Miliband has handled the personal attacks with dignity. Can easily see the Tories overplaying this card.

[trousers]

I admire Bill Gates for what he gives to charity and what he has achieved but that quote is complete bullsh!t.

 

I suppose the poor who die in Africa do so because it is their fault? I earn an above average salary in a wealthy country, it puts me in the top 0.4% richest on Earth. My wealth is 99% down to luck, I'm lucky to have been born in a great country, I'm luck to have decent parents, and I'm lucky I have the skills I was born with. It would be arrogant to claim people who are poorer than me are to blame.

I suspect he was referring to people in 'developed' countries when he came up with the quote. (He was actually quoting someone else as it happens).

 

As with all sound bites, there can be elements of truth and elements of flawed logic sitting side by side. What he's really saying is that if you don't ever try to better yourself then you will never succeed in doing so.

 

Which is stating the obvious somewhat, of course.

Edited 11 April, 2015 by trousers

[SuperMikey]

Early yet, Super Michael. There is plenty of time for the Conservative Party to sink to new depths in terms of its briefing. I do wonder how successful they'll be though. I've read that they are heavily focusing on the Ed factor, which I think could be counter-productive. Miliband has taken on and defused many of the labels thrown his way. He's a geek, nerd, especially about politics. He does look a bit like Wallace, and let's be honest, has a slightly whiny and pleady oratory style. He is perceivably vulnerable, something that the Tories are looking to exploit, and the reason I think it could backfire.

 

Barring the foaming few and perhaps the anti-semitic set, I don't get the sense that many people hate Miliband. Why would they? The main doubts centre on his perceived oddness and some of the people around him. People may not want him to be Prime Minister, but the British people aren't big on bullies (if evictions on our popular democratic contests are anything to go by!), and Miliband has handled the personal attacks with dignity. Can easily see the Tories overplaying this card.

 

I know that BoJo will be watching all of this unfolding and rubbing his hands together with glee - if the Tories don't get in we'll see him as leader before the end of the year. He might actually be a good Opposition Leader, and he'd certainly be the man to tempt back any of the electorate who swing from Conservative to UKIP at this election.

 

On Miliband, I don't hate him at all. I think the general perception is that he's a nice bloke but not cut out to be PM which I would probably agree with. The Tory campaign has been heavily centered around smearing Ed but I think he's actually come out of it quite well, which I imagine is winding up the Tory front-bench something rotten!

[View From The Top]

 

As with all sound bites, there can be elements of truth and elements of flawed logic sitting side by side. What he's really saying is that if you don't ever try to better yourself then you will never succeed in doing so.

 

Which is stating the obvious somewhat, of course.

 

True, but 99.99% will hit a ceiling which they can't push through. Not everyone can gain 5 GCSEs, not everyone can earn above the national average and not everyone can succeed no matter their willingness or effort.

[View From The Top]

I know that BoJo will be watching all of this unfolding and rubbing his hands together with glee - if the Tories don't get in we'll see him as leader before the end of the year. He might actually be a good Opposition Leader, and he'd certainly be the man to tempt back any of the electorate who swing from Conservative to UKIP at this election.

 

On Miliband, I don't hate him at all. I think the general perception is that he's a nice bloke but not cut out to be PM which I would probably agree with. The Tory campaign has been heavily centered around smearing Ed but I think he's actually come out of it quite well, which I imagine is winding up the Tory front-bench something rotten!

 

As much as it pains me to say it I'd love to see BoJo as opposition leader. It would certainly bring some colour back to a very, very dull tory front bench.

[pap]

Totally agree with the saturation of off-shoring/on-shoring in the IT industry. Its a completely false economy. Where we used to deal with one or two experts we now find ourselves dealing with half a dozen (or more) resources that haven't got a clue, ergo projects end up taking much longer with more people. But, hey, the charge-out rate for each resource is c.75% cheaper than the old fashioned rate for people that knew what they were doing, so that's OK....

 

Forgive me for the slight opening tangent, but you've probably had a similar experience. I first realised that newspapers were potentially rife with inaccuracies when I was in my late teens. Already something of a nerd (I'd had computers since nine), I'd read computing articles in the mainstream press and spot tons of stuff that just wasn't accurate. Made me wonder what specialists in other fields think about the accuracy of the mainstream reporting of their fields.

 

Anyways, applying that principle here, we both know the false economy of off-shoring because we're inside this particular sector. My personal view is that Indians probably have just as many good programmers as us per capita. The problem with the Indian market is that too many people have seen it as an employment panacea, and some people just aren't built for it. There is also the fact that you're adding layers between client and studio, because many of the studio aren't competent communicators. The culture is different; one of my former mentors works for a company that specifically does outsourcing. He says that it is very much work to rule, and that (arf!) he misses the fact that I used to question things so much. Tell those guys to do something, they'll do it. Doesn't matter if it's wrong. On the communications issue, I know it sounds terrible to say so, but the Indian accent is not easily interpreted by Western ears. If there was one piece of advice I'd give to the aspiring Indian coder, it would be to make as much effort being understood in the language. My grandad's Pakistani accent has mellowed over the years, but I've worked with dudes 25 years in the US that sound like they've just arrived. Genuinely hard work.

 

I bet, like myself, you're wondering if other industries are as messed up as ours.

[trousers]

Boris waiting in the wings is precisely why the outcome of this election is a win-win for Tory supporters

[SuperMikey]

As much as it pains me to say it I'd love to see BoJo as opposition leader. It would certainly bring some colour back to a very, very dull tory front bench.

 

Agreed. I don't think much of him politically as he sits farther right of the current Tory leadership but he's certainly charismatic and is prone to a gaffe as well which would liven things up a bit! He has a bit of the Farage-factor as well by being "a bit of a character" so if he was to contribute to UKIP's downfall it'd be alright by me..

[pap]

As much as it pains me to say it I'd love to see BoJo as opposition leader. It would certainly bring some colour back to a very, very dull tory front bench.

 

I have an irrational and entirely unfounded fear that Boris is a Boys From Brazil pure Aryan type, genetically engineered to take down the last remnants of the British Empire with a combination of joviality and buffoonery.

 

I've only ever seen the Boys From Brazil once, too, and yet, the fear remains

[View From The Top]

Boris waiting in the wings is precisely why the outcome of this election is a win-win for Tory supporters

 

Or a certain section of tory supporters.

[trousers]

Or a certain section of tory supporters.

 

Fair point

[whelk]

Early yet, Super Michael. There is plenty of time for the Conservative Party to sink to new depths in terms of its briefing. I do wonder how successful they'll be though. I've read that they are heavily focusing on the Ed factor, which I think could be counter-productive. Miliband has taken on and defused many of the labels thrown his way. He's a geek, nerd, especially about politics. He does look a bit like Wallace, and let's be honest, has a slightly whiny and pleady oratory style. He is perceivably vulnerable, something that the Tories are looking to exploit, and the reason I think it could backfire.

 

Barring the foaming few and perhaps the anti-semitic set, I don't get the sense that many people hate Miliband. Why would they? The main doubts centre on his perceived oddness and some of the people around him. People may not want him to be Prime Minister, but the British people aren't big on bullies (if evictions on our popular democratic contests are anything to go by!), and Miliband has handled the personal attacks with dignity. Can easily see the Tories overplaying this card.

 

Spot on. I have actually warmed to Ed and sure subliminal inverse reaction to all the attacks on him.

Don't think he is PM material but hey neither is that focus grouped obsessed Cameron with all his managed body language bs.

[whelk]

As much as it pains me to say it I'd love to see BoJo as opposition leader. It would certainly bring some colour back to a very, very dull tory front bench.

 

He is dangerous. His loveable buffoon image is all carefully managed. He used that mobile going off trick a number of times deliberately. My how we laughed at how disorganised and refreshingly natural he was. Tis b0llocks though.

[pap]

He is dangerous. His loveable buffoon image is all carefully managed. He used that mobile going off trick a number of times deliberately. My how we laughed at how disorganised and refreshingly natural he was. Tis b0llocks though.

 

Haven't quite a few utter bastards started out as loveable buffoons? Idi Amin. Gaddafi to an extent.

 

I do worry about the combination of his temper and all that power. He's not nice when the mask slips, and doesn't have many political friends.

[trousers]

The problem with the Indian market is that too many people have seen it as an employment panacea, and some people just aren't built for it. There is also the fact that you're adding layers between client and studio, because many of the studio aren't competent communicators. The culture is different; one of my former mentors works for a company that specifically does outsourcing. He says that it is very much work to rule, and that (arf!) he misses the fact that I used to question things so much. Tell those guys to do something, they'll do it. Doesn't matter if it's wrong.

 

Nail on head right there. I ended up having to quit my role as an IT project manager for a bank because it's almost impossible to manage people that don't challenge what you're asking them to do. Whilst I was able to 'self-challenge', due to coming from a technical background, you still need people that have a natural tendancy to question what's being proposed for projects to be successful. There's no place for blind compliance in the IT industry (as well as elsewhere no doubt). I'm currently in the software testing sector and almost without exception, the offshore/onshore resources we deal with have zero problem-solving/trouble-shooting instinct or skills which means whenever they hit a testing error they either bat it straight back over the fence without any preliminary diagnostics or mask the problem altogether by removing the validation checks that are failing so that the test(s) pass. Aaaarrrghhhh......

 

On the communications issue, I know it sounds terrible to say so, but the Indian accent is not easily interpreted by Western ears. If there was one piece of advice I'd give to the aspiring Indian coder, it would be to make as much effort being understood in the language. My grandad's Pakistani accent has mellowed over the years, but I've worked with dudes 25 years in the US that sound like they've just arrived. Genuinely hard work.

 

Yep, been there, done that, got the t-shirt, etc. I've sat in on conference calls where I've put the phone down afterwards and have no idea what was discussed. It's not for the want of trying or putting in the effort to understand, its simply impossible in a lot of cases.

 

I bet, like myself, you're wondering if other industries are as messed up as ours.

That thought has often crossed my mind.

 

Now I'm on the supplier side of the industry, I'm torn between tearing my hair out at how much 'our' industry has gone down the pan versus rubbing my hands together with glee at how much more work is out there, for software suppliers such as my company, due to the lack of depth of knowledge that now exists on our clients' shop-floor!

Edited 11 April, 2015 by trousers

[View From The Top]

He is dangerous. His loveable buffoon image is all carefully managed. He used that mobile going off trick a number of times deliberately. My how we laughed at how disorganised and refreshingly natural he was. Tis b0llocks though.

 

I know that, which is why I only want to see him in opposition.

[bridge too far]

Jeremy Hunt flustering

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/04/11/nhs-funding-jeremy-hunt-tories-general-election_n_7045436.html?1428748807

[trousers]

Jeremy Hunt flustering

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/04/11/nhs-funding-jeremy-hunt-tories-general-election_n_7045436.html?1428748807

 

It was only a matter of time before the Tories started mimicing the other parties when it comes to being vague about funding....

 

That said, given £8bn is only a measly 0.27% of UK GDP I'm sure they can find it from somewhere....

Edited 11 April, 2015 by trousers

[pap]

Nail on head right there. I ended up having to quit my role as an IT project manager for a bank because it's almost impossible to manage people that don't challenge what you're asking them to do. Whilst I was able to 'self-challenge', due to coming from a technical background, you still need people that have a natural tendancy to question what's being proposed for projects to be successful. There's no place for blind compliance in the IT industry (as well as elsewhere no doubt). I'm currently in the software testing sector and almost without exception, the offshore/onshore resources we deal with have zero problem-solving/trouble-shooting instinct or skills which means whenever they hit a testing error they either bat it straight back over the fence without any preliminary diagnostics or mask the problem altogether by removing the validation checks that are failing so that the test(s) pass. Aaaarrrghhhh......

 

And I bet your rework rate is pretty staggering too. Mine typically sits at around 5%. Offshore is 60%. Had a project come in during a time when I was already pretty busy. It was a requirement to produce a bespoke report from a large dataset. There's always a bit of back and forth with numeric reports, so taking that and the "making a large dataset work quickly" requirement into account, I estimated two weeks for comfort, specced it out, ready to be put in my production queue. We were trying out a new offshore firm, recommended by one of the directors, so we bounced the work to them. During the spec handover, we spoke to two guys. The first guy had reasonable, if heavily accented English. The second chap could only say "yes, sir". Three months later, we still have no solution, and a bill for six man months of consultancy services. The firm was never used again, and the recommender was quickly bounced out of the firm.

 

It was later completed in-house in two weeks.

 

This is why I have such an issue with the accepted wisdom that private industry is more efficient. I have a huge amount of respect for those agile, small firms that navigate success in a big market, but once companies get to a certain size, they're almost like kingdoms, with all the attendant succession crises, alliances and cut-throat politics. Most of the private companies that we'd be looking to offload public services to are of that size. Should taxpayer money be funding the madness?

 

Yep, been there, done that, got the t-shirt, etc. I've sat in on conference calls where I've put the phone down afterwards and have no idea what was discussed. It's not for the want of trying or putting in the effort to understand, its simply impossible in a lot of cases.

 

I am probably slightly more obsessive about getting something out of those meetings. I think the main problem is pacing; there is almost no pausing and a lot of repetition. I'll be honest, and you probably won't be surprised - I'm near the point of rude at some points, particularly if we're covering the same ground (happens loads) or I've not understood anything.

 

I've started documenting tons more. It's unambiguous, there for future reference and can be explored at leisure. Doesn't mean it gets read though.... *sigh*

 

That thought has often crossed my mind.

 

Now I'm on the supplier side of the industry, I'm torn between tearing my hair out at how much 'our' industry has gone down the pan versus rubbing my hands together with glee at how much more work is out there, for software suppliers such as my company, due to the lack of depth of knowledge that now exists on our clients' shop-floor!

 

I reckon we'd get a laundry list of complaints if we started a thread about it.

[pap]

I know that, which is why I only want to see him in opposition.

 

He'd go through Miliband like a hot knife through butter, and probably get a landslide in the next election.

 

Good thing Eddie Izzard is on the ascendancy

[trousers]

This is why I have such an issue with the accepted wisdom that private industry is more efficient. I have a huge amount of respect for those agile, small firms that navigate success in a big market, but once companies get to a certain size, they're almost like kingdoms, with all the attendant succession crises, alliances and cut-throat politics. Most of the private companies that we'd be looking to offload public services to are of that size. Should taxpayer money be funding the madness?

 

I agree, large private companies often suffer from the same 'kingdom making' syndrome as public sector organisations. So, if large companies and public sector organisations both suffer from the same malaise, what's the solution? Maybe the public sector should only outsource to 'leaner' private companies that are under a certain size and who can demonstrate that they haven't succumbed to the pitfalls of large company mentality? That said, there will always come a point where these leaner/smaller companies drift into large company bad practices as they become more successful and inevitably bigger. (victims of their own success etc)

 

Despite the 'raving capitalist' persona I often paint on here, I'm not blind to the failings of certain parts of the private sector. I simply believe that both sectors have a part to play in all aspects of life and its about finding the right balance rather than being dogmatically for or against one or the other.

Edited 11 April, 2015 by trousers

[Batman]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3034764/Labour-parliamentary-candidate-called-people-displaying-England-flags-simpletons-racists-urged-throw-Tippex-cars-carrying-them.html

 

now, imagine had UKiP said something far less insulting about foreign flags....

Edited 11 April, 2015 by Batman

[bridge too far]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3034764/Labour-parliamentary-candidate-called-people-displaying-England-flags-simpletons-racists-urged-throw-Tippex-cars-carrying-them.html

 

 

now, imagine had UKiP said something far less insulting about foreign flags....

 

This was 10 years ago! The Fail must be desperate

 

Hang on - haven't we agreed that candidates can't be held responsible for stuff that happened in their youth a la Farage?

.

[Batman]

This was 10 years ago! The Fail must be desperate

 

Hang on - haven't we agreed that candidates can't be held responsible for stuff that happened in their youth a la Farage?

.

 

Hand

This was 10 years ago! Gosh the Daily Fail must be desperate

i did not take it seriously. I be amazed if anyone does

[badgerx16]

...not everyone can earn above the national average ....

 

They can in Michael Gove's world.

[aintforever]

I suspect he was referring to people in 'developed' countries when he came up with the quote. (He was actually quoting someone else as it happens).

 

As with all sound bites, there can be elements of truth and elements of flawed logic sitting side by side. What he's really saying is that if you don't ever try to better yourself then you will never succeed in doing so.

 

Which is stating the obvious somewhat, of course.

 

Big difference between saying if you don't try to better yourself you won't succeed than saying if you die poor you deserve it.

 

It doesn't matter who you are referring to, that is just complete ******.

[bridge too far]

This is worth a read - showing just how much tight-fisted supermarkets are costing you and me by paying low wages

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32272817

[Lord Duckhunter]

This is worth a read - showing just how much tight-fisted supermarkets are costing you and me by paying low wages

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32272817

 

As I've posted before ,this is exactly what Tax Credits and a minimum wage does to the people at the bottom. Notice the line " most pay more than the minimum wage" . They pay pennies above and that's their benchmark, they are not considered exploitative because they pay" above the minimum wage" . With no minimum wage their benchmark would be the minimum needed to retain staff.

 

When I worked in retail management wages were pretty poor for the workers, however good blokes negotiated higher pay , and if we had problems filling vacancies we put the wage up to attract people. Now there's no need to as Tax credits top the wages up and other retailers pay more or less the same.

 

Without tax credits they wouldn't be able to fill their vacancies until the wages were up to a certain level.

 

If you're going to have a minimum wage it needs to be at a level where people don't need benefits to top it up. At the moment its a welfare to work vanity project designed to make politicians feel good about themselves. While tax credits are just a boost for companies profit.

[Hockey_saint]

As I've posted before ,this is exactly what Tax Credits and a minimum wage does to the people at the bottom. Notice the line " most pay more than the minimum wage" . They pay pennies above and that's their benchmark, they are not considered exploitative because they pay" above the minimum wage" . With no minimum wage their benchmark would be the minimum needed to retain staff.

 

When I worked in retail management wages were pretty poor for the workers, however good blokes negotiated higher pay , and if we had problems filling vacancies we put the wage up to attract people. Now there's no need to as Tax credits top the wages up and other retailers pay more or less the same.

 

Without tax credits they wouldn't be able to fill their vacancies until the wages were up to a certain level.

 

If you're going to have a minimum wage it needs to be at a level where people don't need benefits to top it up. At the moment its a welfare to work vanity project designed to make politicians feel good about themselves. While tax credits are just a boost for companies profit.

 

Totally, not to mention how soul destroying some retail jobs are. But we can have a go at retail companies as much as we like but unfortunately, most of them today are seriously struggling as online shopping has taken a huge bite out of them so I wouldn't think now would be an opportune time to go after them as I think their attitude would just be to lay off more staff.

[buctootim]

Totally, not to mention how soul destroying some retail jobs are. But we can have a go at retail companies as much as we like but unfortunately, most of them today are seriously struggling as online shopping has taken a huge bite out of them so I wouldn't think now would be an opportune time to go after them as I think their attitude would just be to lay off more staff.

 

Its just different sides the same coin. The warehouse staff and delivery men arent paid any better. I doubt the total number of jobs in retail is much changed, just slightly different areas.

[scotty]

Jeremy Hunt flustering

 

 

Thats not what Jimmy Naughtie calls him

 

 

[Coxford_lou]

Ha, great article from Caitlin Moran in the Times Magazine yesterday about the Tories, and the weirdness of sending your kids away to be brought up by an institution. Worth a read. Paywall stops me linking it.

[Hockey_saint]

Its just different sides the same coin. The warehouse staff and delivery men arent paid any better. I doubt the total number of jobs in retail is much changed, just slightly different areas.

 

Yeah, but it all affects their bottom line. I used to work in retail myself and it was very much going towards more a base to pick things up that you'd ordered online at a fraction of the cost and you would not believe how many customers didn't grasp that it actually costs more to have a physical base. Either way, I've seen that particular major companies predicted profits and like John Lewis (who are currently being propped up by their online sales). I can see them just continuing retail with a skeleton staff of virtually no one (same for their distribution centres) and then there won't be anyone working in retail to claim working tax credits.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Yeah, but it all affects their bottom line. I used to work in retail myself and it was very much going towards more a base to pick things up that you'd ordered online at a fraction of the cost and you would not believe how many customers didn't grasp that it actually costs more to have a physical base. Either way, I've seen that particular major companies predicted profits and like John Lewis (who are currently being propped up by their online sales). I can see them just continuing retail with a skeleton staff of virtually no one (same for their distribution centres) and then there won't be anyone working in retail to claim working tax credits.

 

I remember working at minimum wage in Waitrose in 2000, £3.36 an hour or something. After about a year that went up but not much. Bloody cheap labour.

[Verbal]

George Osborne doing his best Natalie Bennett impression of utter uselessness in the face of a simple question.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94hdq5iX9m8

 

Thankfully neither is going to be anywhere near power after 7 May.

[bridge too far]

George Osborne doing his best Natalie Bennett impression of utter uselessness in the face of a simple question.

 

 

Thankfully neither is going to be anywhere near power after 7 May.

 

He was dreadful, wasn't he. He seems to think he only has to say 'long term economic plan' 'hard-working families' etc. etc a hundred times and that's enough to win the election.

[CB Saint]

He was dreadful, wasn't he. He seems to think he only has to say 'long term economic plan' 'hard-working families' etc. etc a hundred times and that's enough to win the election.

 

This is how moden politicians believe they should communicate with the media. Pick a sound bite / headline, choose a 5 minute interview slot, ignore the question and repeat sound bite ad nauseum. It doesn't matter if it is "long term economic plan" or "cost of living crisis", they all do it to the extent that it is barely worth watching any of these interviews.

[JackFrost]

He was dreadful, wasn't he. He seems to think he only has to say 'long term economic plan' 'hard-working families' etc. etc a hundred times and that's enough to win the election.

 

Replace those quotes with the different parties respective soundbites and you could be describing almost any politician in this country

[Nolan]

This is worth a read - showing just how much tight-fisted supermarkets are costing you and me by paying low wages

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32272817

So you want them to cost you and me by charging us extra for stuff on the shelves?

[bridge too far]

So you want them to cost you and me by charging us extra for stuff on the shelves?

 

I'd be prepared to do that, yes. One of the reasons I won't shop at Tesco (one reason amongst many). I'm paying for it through income tax at the moment anyway.

[View From The Top]

So you want them to cost you and me by charging us extra for stuff on the shelves?

 

You think it's acceptable that they pay wages so low that the tax payer is coughing up?

[Nolan]

You think it's acceptable that they pay wages so low that the tax payer is coughing up?

Supermarkets profits are massively down. I would rather we topped up pay, than pay full job-seekers allowance.

 

Let's take Tesco as an example. They made £0.97 bn net profit last year. That's approximately £1920 per member of its 500000 workforce. They have a massive £2.6 bn pension deficit (partly thanks to Gordon Brown). Where do they have room to raise wages.?

Edited 12 April, 2015 by Nolan

[bridge too far]

Here's a way we could achieve a lot of what we want to do:

 

https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/content/tax-dodging-video-share/

[Nolan]

Here's a way we could achieve a lot of what we want to do:

 

https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/content/tax-dodging-video-share/

If only it was that easy. Sadly the truth is you have to try and gain as much money as you can without the person / entity disappearing to a country where they don't have to pay as much tax, while taking jobs and the tax they do pay with them.

[bridge too far]

If only it was that easy. Sadly the truth is you have to try and gain as much money as you can without the person / entity disappearing to a country where they don't have to pay as much tax, while taking jobs and the tax they do pay with them.

 

That argument was used with regard to stopping / curtailing bankers' bonuses. Didn't happen though, did it

[Nolan]

That argument was used with regard to stopping / curtailing bankers' bonuses. Didn't happen though, did it

No because they mostly found away round it. And it would have been worse elsewhere.