General Election 2015

[trousers]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/03/nicola-sturgeon-denies-saying-she-wanted-david-cameron-to-win-election

Whether she said it or not, another Tory government would be the best outcome for the SNP.

[Hockey_saint]

Whether she said it or not, another Tory government would be the best outcome for the SNP.

 

Only in that it would allow every other nation to affirm their views on the English. Either way, they'll never side with a party who were previously called the unionists and you are kidding yourself if you think they ever would.

[trousers]

Only in that it would allow every other nation to affirm their views on the English. Either way, they'll never side with a party who were previously called the unionists and you are kidding yourself if you think they ever would.

I'm not suggesting that the SNP would side with the Tories. The best result for SNP is a Tory led government, be it on their own (unlikely as that may be) or propped up by UKIP, the DUP, or the Lib Dems again.

 

http://www.theweek.co.uk/general-election-2015/63195/snp-s-big-secret-what-they-really-want-is-a-tory-win

 

the Nationalists want to give the impression to Scottish voters that they oppose the re-election of the much loathed (north of the border) Tories but actually have no desire to team up with Miliband’s party.

 

Says Hundal: “The SNP aren’t serious about working with Labour – this is a charade so they can later walk away from any deal and blame Miliband for not offering everything.”

Edited 4 April, 2015 by trousers

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Hmmmm very interesting blog from a Tory

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ramesh-patel/growth-cameron-austerity_b_2007552.html?1428057164

This article is completely right and exposes the nonsense that the tories have been spouting for the last five years.

 

The lib dems are still saying we could have been Greece, it's infuriating!

[Hockey_saint]

I'm not suggesting that the SNP would side with the Tories. The best result for SNP is a Tory led government, be it on their own (unlikely as that may be) or propped up by UKIP, the DUP, or the Lib Dems again.

 

http://www.theweek.co.uk/general-election-2015/63195/snp-s-big-secret-what-they-really-want-is-a-tory-win

 

We're screwed whichever way the cookie crumbles but since it's probable UKIP will only get a couple of votes and that they are the extremist Tories Dave has already suggested he doesn't want to do business with....Liberals taking one hell of a hammering from a British public who, for the most part (Tory voters as well) consider them slimy weasels who'd sell their mother's for a modicum of power and essentially the rest of the panel on the debate the other night be left-wingers, I think the DUP would be their only real choice as I can't see them making any more gains than they did in 2010.

[trousers]

Hmmmm very interesting blog from a Tory

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ramesh-patel/growth-cameron-austerity_b_2007552.html?1428057164

The most "interesting" thing about that article is that is was written 2 and a half years ago and updated yesterday - any idea what the updates were?

 

Some alternative thoughts on the article at the time:

 

http://brackenworld.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/did-ramesh-patel-get-paid-for-this.html?m=1

 

https://cyberboris.wordpress.com/2012/12/11/naughty-boys-mehdi-hasan-and-ramesh-patel-are-misleading-voters-again/

Edited 4 April, 2015 by trousers

[Wes Tender]

Thanks for the clarification. So, you'll go with the party that wants to leave the EU and support Grammar Schools. That's a pretty narrow programme!

 

 

You missed that he wanted a smaller state, which I take to mean either less bureaucratic interference in our everyday lives, or the reduction of the Civil Service, which amounts to much the same thing.

 

People either vote along traditional lines for the party which is best aligned to their preferences on a basket of policies, or they vote for a party that represents their feelings on a narrower few policies that are of much greater importance to them. As there is less to choose between the main parties in recent times since the advent of New Labour, more people are likely to pick these few policy issues that resonate with them in influencing their voting intentions.

 

I have some sympathy for LD's position as I am thinking along similar lines. I am considering not voting Conservative for the first time in a General Election and voting UKIP as I did in the European Elections. I am fed up with the Conservatives' failure to allow a referendum on Europe despite their manifesto promises over the past couple of elections. Even now, despite UKIP's resounding success in the European Elections, their manifesto promises a referendum in another 2 years. It simply is not good enough when our loss of sovereignty has been so badly eroded by successive treaties that we have not been able to vote on. The second reason for voting for them is the distinct possibility that it might help to oust the Lib Dem in Eastleigh.

[Verbal]

I have some sympathy for LD's position as I am thinking along similar lines. I am considering not voting Conservative for the first time in a General Election and voting UKIP as I did in the European Elections.

 

So let me get this straight: those decades of 'experience' you waffled on about earlier have led you to the enlightening, well-reasoned conclusion that you should vote UKIP. Did you spend all those years in a darkened room?

 

And just to be clear, you're happy about getting into bed with the party whose members:

 

have called for the compulsory abortion of Down's Syndrome foetuses

 

have argued that the flooding of the Somerset Levels was caused by gay marriage

 

have recommended that politicians imitate Adolf Hitler's 'oratory style'

 

have called Thai people 'ting tongs'

 

have declared revulsion at the sight of black people

 

have memberships with notorious racist organisations, including white supremacist groups

 

have been described by one of their own former MEPs as 'bloody right-wing fascist butters'

 

and have a leader whose idyllic school days included, according to his teachers, marching through villages singing Hitler-youth songs.

 

..to list a few.

 

THAT's the party that decades of your considered thought have led you to.

[Wes Tender]

So let me get this straight: those decades of 'experience' you waffled on about earlier have led you to the enlightening, well-reasoned conclusion that you should vote UKIP. Did you spend all those years in a darkened room?

 

And just to be clear, you're happy about getting into bed with the party whose members:

 

have called for the compulsory abortion of Down's Syndrome foetuses

 

have argued that the flooding of the Somerset Levels was caused by gay marriage

 

have recommended that politicians imitate Adolf Hitler's 'oratory style'

 

have called Thai people 'ting tongs'

 

have declared revulsion at the sight of black people

 

have memberships with notorious racist organisations, including white supremacist groups

 

have been described by one of their own former MEPs as 'bloody right-wing fascist butters'

 

and have a leader whose idyllic school days included, according to his teachers, marching through villages singing Hitler-youth songs.

 

..to list a few.

 

THAT's the party that decades of your considered thought have led you to.

 

You get a few nutters in every party. Which party do you support?

 

You have heard of tactical or protest votes perchance? Maybe not. I did say that one reason was to rid Eastleigh of the Lib Dems. Perhaps it didn't occur to you that that constituted tactical voting.

[Patrick Bateman]

You get a few nutters in every party. Which party do you support?

 

You have heard of tactical or protest votes perchance? Maybe not. I did say that one reason was to rid Eastleigh of the Lib Dems. Perhaps it didn't occur to you that that constituted tactical voting.

 

A FEW? It seems every week one of the UKIP members has said something stupid. They are completely unelectable.

[Coxford_lou]

You get a few nutters in every party. Which party do you support?

 

You have heard of tactical or protest votes perchance? Maybe not. I did say that one reason was to rid Eastleigh of the Lib Dems. Perhaps it didn't occur to you that that constituted tactical voting.

 

That's like tactical voting for the devil. Robert Johnson tried it, and it did him no good!

[trousers]

[Verbal]

You get a few nutters in every party. Which party do you support?

 

You have heard of tactical or protest votes perchance? Maybe not. I did say that one reason was to rid Eastleigh of the Lib Dems. Perhaps it didn't occur to you that that constituted tactical voting.

 

A 'few nutters'?! UKIP is riddled with racist scumbags. Voting is not just a tick-box exercise where you align your ideas with manifestos. If it were just that, you could just as easily vote for the BNP or any other fascist fringe party because they'll have plenty of stuff in their manifestos about minimal states and other things you seem to cherish. Voting is also about the company you keep. And if you're happy to keep company with a bunch of racist scumbags, who are every so often (very often, it seems) caught out actually being racist scumbags, then go you.

[Batman]

 

She (and her party) ride on the appearance that they 'stick it to the man' in Westminster and keep their distance from that. As they will soon be part of the Westminster bubble they so desperately despise, their policies will no doubt get far more scrutiny than they have done before in a wider scale....and things that do no work out CAN be blamed on them if some predictions come true

[SuperMikey]

 

Half of those "reality" points don't actually argue against or disprove what she actually said... smells like somebody wanted a hatchet job but they couldn't actually find anything to bring her up on!

[solentstars]

Three questions from an interested outsider:

 

Are the majority of UKIP supporters people who would usually vote Conservative? (Meaning that UKIP-support splits the right-wing vote.)

 

Is it at all likely that a Conservative-UKIP coalition (after the vote) could form a minority government? Would an alliance of the other parties be enough to stop that? (Assuming that the results on Election day matches roughly the current polling numbers.)

won,t happen has ukip will be lucky to have one or 2 seats at the most .

[solentstars]

 

made up rubbish i expect as usual from certain newspapers.

[trousers]

Half of those "reality" points don't actually argue against or disprove what she actually said... smells like somebody wanted a hatchet job but they couldn't actually find anything to bring her up on!

The main point being made is that she wasn't really challenged on anything she said, regardless of how accurate. The 'main' parties were concentrating on landing punches on each other which gave Sturgeon a free reign to say what she wanted. Its therefore unsurprising that she 'won' the debate - it was more to do with the tactics of her opponents than her own performance per se.

 

IMHO of course.

[solentstars]

So let me get this straight: those decades of 'experience' you waffled on about earlier have led you to the enlightening, well-reasoned conclusion that you should vote UKIP. Did you spend all those years in a darkened room?

 

And just to be clear, you're happy about getting into bed with the party whose members:

 

have called for the compulsory abortion of Down's Syndrome foetuses

 

have argued that the flooding of the Somerset Levels was caused by gay marriage

 

have recommended that politicians imitate Adolf Hitler's 'oratory style'

 

have called Thai people 'ting tongs'

 

have declared revulsion at the sight of black people

 

have memberships with notorious racist organisations, including white supremacist groups

 

have been described by one of their own former MEPs as 'bloody right-wing fascist butters'

 

and have a leader whose idyllic school days included, according to his teachers, marching through villages singing Hitler-youth songs.

 

..to list a few.

 

THAT's the party that decades of your considered thought have led you to.

to be fair that view used to be held by alot of the tory thatcherite right includeing harvey procter ryodds boyson alleged kiddy fiddlers and that ilk who always wanted us out of europe along with and alot of defectors to ukip hate the liberal direction cameron has taken the tory party. so its no suprise they don,t find ukip racist.

[solentstars]

A FEW? It seems every week one of the UKIP members has said something stupid. They are completely unelectable.

agree i think that business would leave the country in droves, if there was any real chance these nutters had a chance of running the country.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Loving the chuckle brother's political debate.

[aintforever]

A FEW? It seems every week one of the UKIP members has said something stupid. They are completely unelectable.

 

Yet they are the only party who are willing to tackle uncontrolled immigration. Or even tell us the truth about it.

 

Fact is immigration is a major issue for many and there is simply one party to vote for if it is.

[trousers]

Who to believe....?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

Nicola Sturgeon secretly backs David Cameron

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/03/nicola-sturgeon-denies-saying-she-wanted-david-cameron-to-win-election

Nicola Sturgeon denies saying she wanted David Cameron to win election

 

This sums it up nicely IMO:

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/04/will-we-find-out-what-nicola-sturgeon-said-to-the-french-ambassador/

[buctootim]

I took the kids to Centre Parcs in Belgium this week. Drove through France, went to a theme park in the Netherlands and bought groceries in Germany - half the time without even realising you had crossed a border. The roads were full of vehicles of all countries. It made me realise again just how much our lack of a land border and Island mentality shapes, maybe warps, our sense of identity.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Yet they are the only party who are willing to tackle uncontrolled immigration. Or even tell us the truth about it.

 

Fact is immigration is a major issue for many and there is simply one party to vote for if it is.

 

Being a member of the EU comes with certain " rules" one of which is free movement. Instead of admitting this and sticking up for the EU , the establishment parties lie, bend the truth and throw insults . It was refreshing to hear Leanne Wood speak the truth, shame others won't.

[buctootim]

Being a member of the EU comes with certain " rules" one of which is free movement. Instead of admitting this and sticking up for the EU , the establishment parties lie, bend the truth and throw insults . It was refreshing to hear Leanne Wood speak the truth, shame others won't.

 

Thats true - unfortunately it wont happen given a very europhobic media. Uncontrolled immigration is a downside to EU membership, but the benefits heavily outweigh the disavantages imo.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I took the kids to Centre Parcs in Belgium this week. Drove through France, went to a theme park in the Netherlands and bought groceries in Germany - half the time without even realising you had crossed a border. The roads were full of vehicles of all countries. It made me realise again just how much our lack of a land border and Island mentality shapes, maybe warps, our sense of identity.

 

What about the Swiss have they got this " island mentality" ?

[buctootim]

What about the Swiss have they got this " island mentality" ?

 

Like Monaco the Swiss make a huge amount from providing a tax haven for the European (inc Brit) wealthy to avoid paying their tax, or criminals hiding proceeds. They wouldnt be able to do that as a member of the EU.

[aintforever]

Thats true - unfortunately it wont happen given a very europhobic media. Uncontrolled immigration is a downside to EU membership, but the benefits heavily outweigh the disavantages imo.

 

I think many disagree. Especially those who's wages have been driven down by the influx of cheap labour.

 

Also whoever we elect, Tory or labour, they will make further cuts. So if you add the 300,000 extra every year public services will be even more over stretched, housing a bigger problem.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Father in law said I should vote UKIP last night. He agrees with their policies.

 

He's 62 and never voted anything but Labour, and would never vote Conservative on principle.

 

Bizarre.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Like Monaco the Swiss make a huge amount from providing a tax haven for the European (inc Brit) wealthy to avoid paying their tax, or criminals hiding proceeds. They wouldnt be able to do that as a member of the EU.

 

Isn't Luxemburg a tax haven for big corporations and in the EU. Anyway why are you having a pop at Monaco, you can drive through with your family without realising you've changed country and that seems important to you.

 

You did not answer the question. You implied that our euro scepticism was a result of our " island mentality" , is Switzerland an island, what about Norway. How's their island mentality?

[Hockey_saint]

Father in law said I should vote UKIP last night. He agrees with their policies.

 

He's 62 and never voted anything but Labour, and would never vote Conservative on principle.

 

Bizarre.

 

They do have quite a cross party support. You have to understand that's the point. Unfortunately, it pains me to say it but Tony Blair was right. No one is 100% left or 100% right and some of the UKIP policies straddle each section. Like I said before, I was pleased to see Nige point out to the Tories the lies they keep banging on about deficit reduction and austerity cuts yet I completely disagree with them on most other policies.

[Wes Tender]

A 'few nutters'?! UKIP is riddled with racist scumbags. Voting is not just a tick-box exercise where you align your ideas with manifestos. If it were just that, you could just as easily vote for the BNP or any other fascist fringe party because they'll have plenty of stuff in their manifestos about minimal states and other things you seem to cherish. Voting is also about the company you keep. And if you're happy to keep company with a bunch of racist scumbags, who are every so often (very often, it seems) caught out actually being racist scumbags, then go you.

 

Please don't patronise me about how the voting system works. And thanks for your blessing that I can vote for whom ever I wish to, for whatever reasons I consider appropriate.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Nigel's been campaigning hard today , no rest for him ( I don't know how to take a screen shot of the tweet) .

 

 

@GarethJFuller: Nigel Farage talks to local people at Thanet Beer Festival in Margate.

[CB Fry]

Please don't patronise me about how the voting system works. And thanks for your blessing that I can vote for whom ever I wish to, for whatever reasons I consider appropriate.

Go you. Vote UKIP to keep the Liberals out of Eastleigh.

 

After all, we all remember Jeremy Thorpe and Asquith and David Steele and that.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Go you. Vote UKIP to keep the Liberals out of Eastleigh.

 

After all, we all remember Jeremy Thorpe and Asquith and David Steele and that.

 

And Cyril Smith , lord Rennard, David Laws, Chris Huhme and the guy whose just admitted to deliberately getting aids as a suicide attempt .

[CB Fry]

And Cyril Smith , lord Rennard, David Laws, Chris Huhme and the guy whose just admitted to deliberately getting aids as a suicide attempt .

"The only people I do have a problem with are negroes" #peoplesarmy

[Coxford_lou]

Please don't patronise me about how the voting system works.

 

I'd take being patronised by Verbal as a compliment, Wes. You're going up in the world.

[Crazy Diamond]

How could you be bored? The future course of your country is at stake. The campaign should be front-and-centre of media coverage until election day.

 

I realise the importance of this election - of any election, for that matter. The problem I have is when coverage gets so dire that it trains a camera on a door for 20 minutes waiting for someone to come out of it, which I have seen already this week.

[TheCholulaKid]

Whether she said it or not, another Tory government would be the best outcome for the SNP.

 

Really? She doesn't seem to think so....

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/04/sturgeon-offers-new-deal-to-miliband

[trousers]

Really? She doesn't seem to think so....

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/04/sturgeon-offers-new-deal-to-miliband

You're making the assumption that what politicians say in public is the same as they are thinking in private. The best outcome for the SNP, in order to accelerate their separatist agenda, is for there to be another Tory government (regardless of how likely or unlikely that is to happen). Their decades long mantra is: "we've got an evil Tory government that Scotland didn't vote for'. A Labour government supported by the SNP would mean losing one of their aces in their goal to secure another referendum. Its no coincidence that last year's referendum happened at the height of a Tory government in the middle of a difficult economic period.

 

Of course they'll keep peddling the " we'll support labour to keep the nasty Tories out" party line during the election campaign but then watch them conveniently blame labour when the post election cooperation talks break down, paving the way for a minority Tory government.

 

IMHO of course

[Hockey_saint]

I took the kids to Centre Parcs in Belgium this week. Drove through France, went to a theme park in the Netherlands and bought groceries in Germany - half the time without even realising you had crossed a border. The roads were full of vehicles of all countries. It made me realise again just how much our lack of a land border and Island mentality shapes, maybe warps, our sense of identity.

 

Absolutley right. I caught the train last August to my brother's wedding in Barcelona and whilst I sat waiting for my train at Gar Du Lyon and seeing all the destination boards going to more far away places in Europe (ok, the furthest was the middle of Poland) and that people were getting on, departing and arriving as if I were to take a train to London it really did make me realise what our island mentality does to us.

[Wes Tender]

Go you. Vote UKIP to keep the Liberals out of Eastleigh.

 

After all, we all remember Jeremy Thorpe and Asquith and David Steele and that.

You forgot David Lloyd George. It's not like you to be so slapdash.

 

I didn't know him, a bit before my time, although my grandfather knew him.

[Sour Mash]

Thats true - unfortunately it wont happen given a very europhobic media. Uncontrolled immigration is a downside to EU membership, but the benefits heavily outweigh the disavantages imo.

What are the benefits? If a nation doesn't control it's own borders or make it's own laws, it's not much of a nation.

[benjii]

This "Island Mentality" thread is odd. I'm not sure what point people are trying to make but there are numerous central European countries with far greater right-wing, separatist leanings than the British. The fact that they have a contiguous land border and we don't is neither here nor there.

 

Does Front Nationale support Schengen?

[Hockey_saint]

This "Island Mentality" thread is odd. I'm not sure what point people are trying to make but there are numerous central European countries with far greater right-wing, separatist leanings than the British. The fact that they have a contiguous land border and we don't is neither here nor there.

 

Does Front Nationale support Schengen?

 

Far right parties are on the rise and as you say, they may feel the same as us but just sitting there and watching the free flow of movement does make you feel differently.

 

Either way, back to politics....I've just read this article on the Lib Dems and I must say, I agree with the comments: "spineless" and "If I wanted to vote Tory, I'd vote Tory" are good ones.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/05/after-election-lib-dems-turn-left-right

Edited 5 April, 2015 by Hockey_saint

[shurlock]

The island mentality thing can cut both ways - being a small country has always forced Britain to look outside its own isles for resources, trading relationships and invariably conquest. No wonder it built a navy and ruled the waves - in the process, bringing it into contact with many more cultures.

 

To this end, it's possible to draw a distinction between the UK's relationship with mainland Europe and the rest of the world. Just because it might be less close to one doesn't mean it's necessarily less close to the other. Always felt that the British were more open to foreigners outside Europe than Europeans.

[CB Saint]

Nigel's been campaigning hard today , no rest for him ( I don't know how to take a screen shot of the tweet) .

 

 

@GarethJFuller: Nigel Farage talks to local people at Thanet Beer Festival in Margate.

 

ffs I am staying just down the road, how did I miss this (the beer festival not farage)

[Wes Tender]

Either way, back to politics....I've just read this article on the Lib Dems and I must say, I agree with the comments: "spineless" and "If I wanted to vote Tory, I'd vote Tory" are good ones.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/05/after-election-lib-dems-turn-left-right

 

Tim Bearder-Sandalwearer a local activist doing the rounds with Thornton, says he has not been so nervous about the Lib Dems’ chances in Eastleigh since they first took the seat in a byelection in 1994. His message to voters is that “we have to be terrified about the £12bn of Tory cuts”.

 

I'm awaiting their usual election pamphlet to drop on my doormat. The one that they just reprint every election, that says that Labour cannot win in Eastleigh, it is a two-horse race between the Lib Dumbs and the Tories.

[buctootim]

The island mentality thing can cut both ways - being a small country has always forced Britain to look outside its own isles for resources, trading relationships and invariably conquest. No wonder it built a navy and ruled the waves - in the process, bringing it into contact with many more cultures.

 

To this end, it's possible to draw a distinction between the UK's relationship with mainland Europe and the rest of the world. Just because it might be less close to one doesn't mean it's necessarily less close to the other. Always felt that the British were more open to foreigners outside Europe than Europeans.

 

 

Its true that the sea, navy and trading with the Empire is an important part of our history. Its also part of what holds us back now. The world has changed irrevocably, fond memories of historical trading ties with Empire or Commonwealth instead of Europe don't work anymore. They are busy trading globally based on price and market access instead of sentiment or obligation - just as we are. Our future is as part of the strongest trading bloc in the world.

 

I don't think we are more open to foreigners. The idea that we are special and different is part of the problem - one that afflicts the US too - so maybe its an Anglo Saxon thing. We certainly feel less 'European' than other nations. I get the sense most feel a pride in belonging to an elite club whilst we tend to denigrate it and look backwards into historic victories over them (whilst totally ignoring the role played by European allies) instead of a positive focus on the future.

Edited 5 April, 2015 by buctootim