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General Election 2015

trousers

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
The problem with just pulling someone else's list from the Internet and hoping it constitutes an argument is a complete lack of context. Privatisation of airports started in 1987, privatisation of railways began in 1993. Student loans were introduced by the Tories after the grant was phased out. The Conservatives provided the framework for all of this to happen, which is what Labour had to work with when they assumed office. That's a great deal of your list, isn't it?

 

I mean, Labour could have re-nationalised stuff, and at some points, largely out of necessity, they did. There is also plenty of agonising about the inevitability of PFI, and many concerns from within the party that the whole PFI thing was privatisation by the back door (it was).

 

For the Conservatives, privatisation is the only thing they know how to do. They get praised for knowing how to run an economy falsely. Selling everything you own does not equate to running an economy properly. If an individual did it, they would receive short term cash in exchange for a lot of long-term problems. That's precisely what happened with Thatcher's government, and precisely what is happening with with Cameron's government too. These c**ts need to be washed out before they do any more damage to our cherished institutions.

 

Cherished institutions, like Northern Rock, Lloyds, HS1 etc?

 

As you say, if Labour had any gumption to actually follow their ethics, they'd have re-nationalised the railways and airports.

 

At least the Conservatives have the guts to stick to what they believe, which is something Labour obviously don't.

pap

pap

Posted
Posted

At least the Conservatives have the guts to stick to what they believe, which is something Labour obviously don't.

 

Praise that could be applied to any tyrant in history.

Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
So basically, everyone who's meeting up for a drink in the pub in London on Tuesday is a Tory? If you start a Cameron love in, I'm straight off home!! ;)

 

It depends what you call a 'Tory'. I would say my political leaning is to the right, but that doesn't make me a Conservative, it just means I favour capitalism etc.

pap

pap

Posted
Posted
You get my point though? Labour could easily have re-nationalised those indutries, they had 13 years in power in the end, but they chose not to.

 

Easily?

 

C'mon then. Detail a few of the steps.

 

Let's start with the bit where an unelectable Labour party, keen to mend fences with big business, says that it's going to shrink the size of private industry.

Coxford_lou

Coxford_lou

Posted
Posted
It depends what you call a 'Tory'. I would say my political leaning is to the right, but that doesn't make me a Conservative, it just means I favour capitalism etc.

 

I'm kidding, but seriously, Cameron makes me want to gag. You don't want to experience that, particularly in a pub...

Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
Easily?

 

C'mon then. Detail a few of the steps.

 

Let's start with the bit where an unelectable Labour party, keen to mend fences with big business, says that it's going to shrink the size of private industry.

 

I have no idea where to start, but surely as soon as an industry is privatised it isn't off limits to re-nationalise? The country was doing well, we had low unemployment, people were spending money, surely it would have been the correct step to make for Labour? Instead, they just sold off the rest. Ho-hum.

saint si

saint si

Posted
Posted
You get my point though? Labour could easily have re-nationalised those indutries, they had 13 years in power in the end, but they chose not to.

 

Quite. Part of Labour's 1997 campaign was a pledge to re-nationalise the railways...

Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
I'm kidding, but seriously, Cameron makes me want to gag. You don't want to experience that, particularly in a pub...

 

That's quite an extreme reaction to someone. Does it happen everytime you see him? I wouldn't say the Ed's make me gag. They do make me chortle though...

ecuk268

ecuk268

Posted
Posted
Quite. Part of Labour's 1997 campaign was a pledge to re-nationalise the railways...

 

I remember when Blair was entering Downing St after winning in '97 he said "People will be surprised at how radical we'll be".

 

Great, I thought. He'll start to repair all the damage that Thatcher had done. Instead he carried on where the Tories left off.

 

The fact that Thatcher later expressed her admiration for him and that Cameron admired him says everything about how radical he was, but not quite how a lot of people expected.

Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
I know, I hide my true self well I feel.

 

And this despite growing up in the 10th safest (according to that list I posted above - not perfect I know) Tory seat in the country!

 

Haha, maybe that's why. You grow up not liking the status quo, and in such a right wing area, somethings gotta give.

pap

pap

Posted
Posted

Aaaaand, cue pap.....

 

....with one of his own opinions.

 

Largely, that you could probably do a tad better than mere regurgitator.

View From The Top

View From The Top

Posted
Posted

Unsurprisingly I share Aneurin Bevan's view of the tories but I genuinely wouldn't mind a another coalition. Labour need fiscal restraint and I simply don't trust the tories to do anything but axe services and reward the wealthy. A coalition solves those problems IMHO.

CB Saint

CB Saint

Posted
Posted

The problem with this election so far is that individual promises and plans are being introduced piecemeal by all parties - so that it is hard to pin down what each party is committing to in totality.

 

I would also like to know in total just how much each party is going to spend over and above what we are currently spending and how it will be paid for.

 

Labour committed to a £30bn deficit reduction yesterday and when challenged today about how to fund this Rachel Reeves referred to the proposed mansion tax. Now I am pretty sure that I have heard labour ministers allocate the revenue raised by this on other projects.

 

It would be a lot easier if the manifestos had to be costed out and that the assumptions made by the parties verified independently, like the old chestnuts "efficiency savings" and "reducing tax avoidance"

trousers

trousers

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Labour committed to a £30bn deficit reduction yesterday and when challenged today about how to fund this Rachel Reeves referred to the proposed mansion tax. Now I am pretty sure that I have heard labour ministers allocate the revenue raised by this on other projects.

 

If Pompey can do it with parachute payments I'm sure there's nothing wrong with Labour re-allocating the same money for multiple purposes either....they come from the same school of financial management afterall :)

Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
Unsurprisingly I share Aneurin Bevan's view of the tories but I genuinely wouldn't mind a another coalition. Labour need fiscal restraint and I simply don't trust the tories to do anything but axe services and reward the wealthy. A coalition solves those problems IMHO.

 

Funnily enough, I completely agree. Would prefer a Tory led coalition as just can't trust the Labour money men.

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Unsurprisingly I share Aneurin Bevan's view of the tories but I genuinely wouldn't mind a another coalition. Labour need fiscal restraint and I simply don't trust the tories to do anything but axe services and reward the wealthy. A coalition solves those problems IMHO.

 

Yep unless it's a labour led coalition with the likes of the snp because they are even more extreme.

Bearsy

Bearsy

Posted
Posted

I'm going to do my first ever vote this year :thumbup: I'm going to vote for the current guy, cos he's got more Experience, and he looks less mental than the other guy.

Bearsy

Bearsy

Posted
Posted

I would be Revolution party prob if there was one. If there was a running down whitehall knives dripping with blood party, I would prob vote for them.

Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
I would be Revolution party prob if there was one. If there was a running down whitehall knives dripping with blood party, I would prob vote for them.

 

Ah The Official Monster Raving Loony Party, now sadly missed I'm afraid

Ex Lion Tamer

Ex Lion Tamer

Posted
Posted
I have no idea where to start, but surely as soon as an industry is privatised it isn't off limits to re-nationalise? The country was doing well, we had low unemployment, people were spending money, surely it would have been the correct step to make for Labour? Instead, they just sold off the rest. Ho-hum.

There seems to be a disconnect between what you think the Labour Party is and what it actually is. It no longer believes in the socialist utopia, it's a moderate social democratic party.

 

The Tories, on the other hand, still believe in their small state utopia, and that's why they're much more dangerous

LGTL

LGTL

Posted
Posted

Labour led coalition would be good. Reign Ed Balls in slightly but without the risk of another 5 years of Cameron and his ilk. I'll never forgive that wally for employing Gove as Education Secretary, that man has done so much damage to children it's not even worth thinking about.

Ex Lion Tamer

Ex Lion Tamer

Posted
Posted
Not if you look at every opinion poll ever conducted when asked questions relating to Cameron's/ Milliband's standing on a World stage no.

 

Like him or not, Cameron has gravitas and can hold his own with World leaders. Imagine Ed trying to negotiate with Putin? The possibility of that is a genuine threat to our national security in both my opinion and the opinion of the majority of poll respondents on every poll ever conducted on the subject regardless of party support.

 

By the way I'm a previous Labour voter from a strong Labour voting family.

Is that why Hollande and Merkel went to Russia for the recent crisis talks with Putin while Cameron stood isolated on the sidelines as usual?

 

In fact, when was the last time Cameron did anything useful on foreign policy? All he has achieved is isolating us from the rest of Europe

 

http://m.ft.com/cms/s/0/7fe5f3f0-ae03-11e4-919e-00144feab7de.html

Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
There seems to be a disconnect between what you think the Labour Party is and what it actually is. It no longer believes in the socialist utopia, it's a moderate social democratic party.

 

The Tories, on the other hand, still believe in their small state utopia, and that's why they're much more dangerous

 

So a party pledges to renationalise the railways, not only doesn't but actively sells more public assets, and then you're saying they wouldn't have anyway because their values have changed?

pap

pap

Posted
Posted
Not sure how this is relevant to the 2015 election.

 

The Conservatives' greatest recent hero.

 

Remember what you're voting for.

CB Saint

CB Saint

Posted
Posted

Pap - often you have good points to make (when not talking about conspiracy theories) but these pictures just make you come across as a bit of a plonker

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