trousers Posted 23 March, 2015 Author Share Posted 23 March, 2015 (edited) Stop asking me difficult questions. I just post random stuff that looks vaguely interesting. I'm not intellectual enough to come up with original and insightful thoughts of my own. Edited 23 March, 2015 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 23 March, 2015 Share Posted 23 March, 2015 It depends on how you define 'privatisation of NHS services'. Does this graph show / include non-clinical services such as catering, cleaning, maintenance, portering? Does it include using private hospitals (at no charge to the patient) for elective surgery in order to reduce waiting times? Or does it solely show outsourcing of clinical services such as oncology, ophthalmology, orthopaedics? Because the distinction is important. A billion times this. What about purchasing pharmaceuticals and other supplies from the private sector... does that count? Or should the NHS make everything it uses too? There is also a fairly significant difference between privatisation and outsourcing and I'm a bit surprised that they are being conflated in this manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 So, what about Cameron and his no third term intention, repeating Blair's similar blunder. Seems to be a complete and bizarre own goal. Ignoring the presumption that he'll even get a second term, he appears to have kickstarted the search for the next Tory leader in a very public sense, even naming potential successors! Any Cameron second term will now be beset by whispers of when he will stand down to give the next person a decent run, and I can't see him lasting beyond c. 2017/18 now. Question is, would a potential successor then repeat Brown's mistake of no election?! Although this is all without stating that a Tory led government is at present no means a given, quite far from it really. What worries me though is Theresa May. Whilst Cameron is generally a 'moderate' Tory, she is anything but. If she had had her way there would no Human Right's Act, a snoopers charter to spy on us all and a vague and conceived ban on 'extremists' speaking on university campuses. I'm quite worried that a person who seems to care so little for civil liberties could get the keys to number 10 via the backdoor route, and that seems to be what could happen now. Vote Cameron and end up with May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 So, what about Cameron and his no third term intention, repeating Blair's similar blunder. Seems to be a complete and bizarre own goal. Ignoring the presumption that he'll even get a second term, he appears to have kickstarted the search for the next Tory leader in a very public sense, even naming potential successors! Any Cameron second term will now be beset by whispers of when he will stand down to give the next person a decent run, and I can't see him lasting beyond c. 2017/18 now. Question is, would a potential successor then repeat Brown's mistake of no election?! Although this is all without stating that a Tory led government is at present no means a given, quite far from it really. What worries me though is Theresa May. Whilst Cameron is generally a 'moderate' Tory, she is anything but. If she had had her way there would no Human Right's Act, a snoopers charter to spy on us all and a vague and conceived ban on 'extremists' speaking on university campuses. I'm quite worried that a person who seems to care so little for civil liberties could get the keys to number 10 via the backdoor route, and that seems to be what could happen now. Vote Cameron and end up with May. Won't you be able to not vote for her party in a general election? If she is so horrible, what is the worry?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 Won't you be able to not vote for her party in a general election? If she is so horrible, what is the worry?? That's the end of all the political threads on here then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 Won't you be able to not vote for her party in a general election? If she is so horrible, what is the worry?? That's brill. I didn't realise that young SaintAndy666 wielded that much political power. I was trundling along with the entirely false assumption that it would be the party able to return the most members from 650 seats that would have the best chances of forming a government. SaintAndy666; can you get those files for please? You know the ones I mean. There's a lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 24 March, 2015 Author Share Posted 24 March, 2015 (edited) Any Cameron second term will now be beset by whispers of when he will stand down to give the next person a decent run Journos would have stoked up these "whispers" during the next term regardless of how Cameron answered the BBC's question yesterday. In fact, had he done what politicians usually do and avoid answering the question that would have given rise to even more speculation in due course. I thought you'd find it refreshing that a politician actually said what they were thinking rather than put up a smoke screen? "Damned if they do...." Anyway, it'll be Boris next rather than May so fret ye not Edited 24 March, 2015 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 Journos would have stoked up these "whispers" during the next term regardless of how Cameron answered the BBC's question yesterday. In fact, had he done what politicians usually do and avoid answering the question that would have given rise to even more speculation in due course. I thought you'd find it refreshing that a politician actually said what they were thinking rather than put up a smoke screen? "Damned if they do...." Anyway, it'll be Boris next rather than May so fret ye not Oh, it's certainly nice to know! Well done Dave there. But it is a strategic cock-up and comes across a tiny bit arrogant also. He should have just said 'I'm putting all my thoughts into getting a second term at the moment'. My point on the tories in general now is that if you vote Cameron, he will be gone by 2017/18 and whilst he is a relatively moderate Tory, he will most likely be replaced by a very unmoderate Tory who has attempted to introduce a series of very worry laws which infringe on civil liberties. On Boris, I'm not so sure. He kind of peaked a few years back, and whilst he is popular with the public, I'm not so sure about his levels with the Tory party and whether they would vote for him enmass for the leader. He'll need to clear up his game a bit - show he is a bit more serious before any run, in my opinion anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 That's brill. I didn't realise that young SaintAndy666 wielded that much political power. I was trundling along with the entirely false assumption that it would be the party able to return the most members from 650 seats that would have the best chances of forming a government. SaintAndy666; can you get those files for please? You know the ones I mean. There's a lad. I sadly do not live in a marginal constituency, and my uni constituency is completely unmarginal also (though it is next door to a very marginal one, so that's quite exciting). But in terms of my vote, it'll have to be an on principle one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 Journos would have stoked up these "whispers" during the next term regardless of how Cameron answered the BBC's question yesterday. In fact, had he done what politicians usually do and avoid answering the question that would have given rise to even more speculation in due course. I thought you'd find it refreshing that a politician actually said what they were thinking rather than put up a smoke screen? "Damned if they do...." Anyway, it'll be Boris next rather than May so fret ye not We should have an 8 year max term. Its unhealthy for anyone to be PM longer and it would do away with the speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 That's the end of all the political threads on here then. Good point. Could be added to many of the posts on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 We should have an 8 year max term. Its unhealthy for anyone to be PM longer and it would do away with the speculation. Haven't they fixed parliament to 5 year terms now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 Oh, it's certainly nice to know! Well done Dave there. But it is a strategic cock-up and comes across a tiny bit arrogant also. He should have just said 'I'm putting all my thoughts into getting a second term at the moment'. My point on the tories in general now is that if you vote Cameron, he will be gone by 2017/18 and whilst he is a relatively moderate Tory, he will most likely be replaced by a very unmoderate Tory who has attempted to introduce a series of very worry laws which infringe on civil liberties. Politician in giving a straight answer to a question scandal! He just earned himself the floating bear votes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 Haven't they fixed parliament to 5 year terms now? It is fixed to 5 years - but that can be overturned by either a 2/3rds majority vote for an election. Or just a 'No confidence' vote by a simple majority, followed by 14 days in which another government can not be formed. 5 years is too long in my opinion, 4 would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 It is fixed to 5 years - but that can be overturned by either a 2/3rds majority vote for an election. Or just a 'No confidence' vote by a simple majority, followed by 14 days in which another government can not be formed. 5 years is too long in my opinion, 4 would be better. Ok, so a better suggestion for tim would be 10 years. As in 2 full terms (as it is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 Ok, so a better suggestion for tim would be 10 years. As in 2 full terms (as it is). But changing the party leader (ie the putative PM) at the same time as the election throws up problems of 'who is the new guy?' 'what will they do?. It might actually work better to have the PM on four year cycles and parliament on five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 Looking at it another way - if the new party leader was agreed 3-6 months before the general election, this would allow the incumbent PM to focus on "running the country" right up to the election date, whilst the new leader could focus entirely on the campaign. Might also provide an advantage as voters like to vote for change (i.e. hoping for better), and a new leader would give some illusion of change even if main party policies are not affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 (edited) Looking at it another way - if the new party leader was agreed 3-6 months before the general election, this would allow the incumbent PM to focus on "running the country" right up to the election date, whilst the new leader could focus entirely on the campaign. Might also provide an advantage as voters like to vote for change (i.e. hoping for better), and a new leader would give some illusion of change even if main party policies are not affected. I dont disagree with the logic - its just 10 years as PM is too long imo. You inevitably lose touch with reality - as was the case with Thatcher and Blair towards the end. Edited 24 March, 2015 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 Looking at it another way - if the new party leader was agreed 3-6 months before the general election, this would allow the incumbent PM to focus on "running the country" right up to the election date, whilst the new leader could focus entirely on the campaign. Might also provide an advantage as voters like to vote for change (i.e. hoping for better), and a new leader would give some illusion of change even if main party policies are not affected. If we had a presidential system, this could work. Even incumbent President has to be approved via primary system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 (edited) But changing the party leader (ie the putative PM) at the same time as the election throws up problems of 'who is the new guy?' 'what will they do?. It might actually work better to have the PM on four year cycles and parliament on five. But you are voting for a local MP, not a party. We don't have a presidential system . The pm is the person who can command a majority in the commons, therefore if the torys want to change leaders they are fully entitled to, your mp will remain the same person. You cant start putting rules in place about how long someone can serve, if they command a majority they can serve for as long as they want. They step down because they realise theyll become an electrol liability , nothing else. Theyre all obsessed with how history will judge them. The party leader may not even get elected to the commons ( certainly possible in cleggs case) , or even not be a member of the commons as in Bennett and Farage. Edited 24 March, 2015 by Lord Duckhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 But you are voting for a local MP, not a party. We don't have a presidential system . The pm is the person who can command a majority in the commons, therefore if the torys want to change leaders they are fully entitled to, your mp will remain the same person. The party leader may not even get elected to the commons ( certainly possible in cleggs case) , or even not be a member of the commons as in Bennett and Farage. That's the technical truth, but there's a tension there as politics has become increasingly about the leader and party as opposed to the individual MP. Likewise with Brown, if there is a change of PM, there would be a lot of clamour for another election so the people can feel like they endorsed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 Increasingly since when, Andy. In your experience, like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 Increasingly since when, Andy. In your experience, like. What do you think Hutch, in your experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 Same old same old. None of it is new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 24 March, 2015 Share Posted 24 March, 2015 Same old same old. None of it is new. So you don't think the way in which politics is done and presented, and the balance of power between an MP and their party, has changed at all the past 20-30 years? What makes you think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 25 March, 2015 Share Posted 25 March, 2015 Cameron getting heckled by pensioners at Age UK. [video=youtube;7zsi-g4JpvY] I like the bit at the end where he tries to do a "deal" with them so they won't boo and jeer Arficus maximus, as the Romans might* have said. *I'm not confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 25 March, 2015 Share Posted 25 March, 2015 That's the technical truth, but there's a tension there as politics has become increasingly about the leader and party as opposed to the individual MP. Likewise with Brown, if there is a change of PM, there would be a lot of clamour for another election so the people can feel like they endorsed them. My point was in response to calls for a fixed term pm . It is not the job of the state to legislate for how long somebody can be leader of a party . It is up to the party members who their leader is and for how long they can lead the party . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Cameron & Miliband Live has just started on C4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Cameron being utterly eaten alive. Good luck Ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Ed will be bricking it , if he performs like he did in yesterday's PMQ's he's going to get nuked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Well one thing is certain, he can't do any worse then call me Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 The format is playing right into his hands now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Cameron struggled, Ed is going to be car crash tv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 As an aside, I've been relegated to the bedroom to watch it cos the other half wants to watch Towie and not this 'boring rubbish'. FML. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 The audiance have sucked the life out of it. I'm not interested in whether disabled Doris from Woking is under apricated by employers , I want Paxo , wiggy Neil and others interviewing them , not a bunch of star struck joes . Boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Cameron was ripped apart, **** knows how milliband will cope with that. What is the point in some of these questions FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 The audiance have sucked the life out of it. I'm not interested in whether disabled Doris from Woking is under apricated by employers , I want Paxo , wiggy Neil and others interviewing them , not a bunch of star struck joes . Boring ****ing sycophants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 " Hi prime minister ." "my question is , do you love fluffy kittens?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Kay Burley is dreadful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Clapped after first question, gone downhill massively since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Clapped after first question, gone downhill massively since then. Jesus, you're not watching that guff are you? Bung Alien on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Jesus, you're not watching that guff are you? Bung Alien on. Ha! I like watching politicians squirm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Inside Number 9 about to start. Will have to catch up with Paxo's demolition of Ed later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Milliband is so unnatural , terrible . The audiance are monsterin him . But, Kay Burly has been embarrassing , much much harder on Ed .Totally biased , disgrace . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Milliband is so unnatural , terrible . The audiance are monsterin him . But, Kay Burly has been embarrassing , much much harder on Ed .Totally biased , disgrace . The audience seem like a Tory audience, he did so badly. And now Paxman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 I thought Milliband did alright. He'll have my vote if he comes out and straight up calls Paxman a ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 I thought Milliband did alright. He'll have my vote if he comes out and straight up calls Paxman a ****. I like his grey patch, looks like Cruella De Ville... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 "Are we full " " No, but we need to get immigration down" FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Paxman going easy on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 The bias from Kay was disgraceful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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