sadoldgit Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Been through more elections than I care to remember but I can honestly say that I have never been more stunned by a result. I still cant believe it. If we don't win our last 3 matches I might have to go back on the happy pills! Worst still, Katie Hopkins gets to stay in the country!
badgerx16 Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 (edited) And yet the media will continue to hold up the SNP as representing the views of the majority of Scotland when, in fact, its roughly a third. And what %age of the total national electorate voted Conservative ? EDIT : according to the Beeb, 11,316,429 out of 46,425,386, so that's just over 24%. That's democracy folks. Edited 8 May, 2015 by badgerx16
hutch Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Can someone explain to me how Scotland voted against devolution but voted the SNP in with a landslide? They didn't.
Lord Duckhunter Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 I just hope Cameron governs as a Tory and not get influenced by wet pinkos like Matthew Parris and his ilk. I see the scarlet pimpernel Grant Schapps has just reappeared on BBC 1 . Labour need to promote people like Simon Danczuk otherwise they're going to end up a London trendy metropolitan leftie party. They took Scotland for granted and they will be making a big mistake if they think it can't happen in the north of England
sadoldgit Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 They didn't. There were some very big swings to the SNP in Scotland.
sadoldgit Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 And what %age of the total national electorate voted Conservative ? EDIT : according to the Beeb, 11,316,429 out of 46,425,386, so that's just over 24%. That's democracy folks. Farage made that point this morning. Electoral reform is long overdue.
hutch Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 There were some very big swings to the SNP in Scotland. They didn't vote against devolution.
iansums Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 I just hope Cameron governs as a Tory and not get influenced by wet pinkos like Matthew Parris and his ilk. I see the scarlet pimpernel Grant Schapps has just reappeared on BBC 1 . Labour need to promote people like Simon Danczuk otherwise they're going to end up a London trendy metropolitan leftie party. They took Scotland for granted and they will be making a big mistake if they think it can't happen in the north of England So we can see a bit more of his wife?
Lord Duckhunter Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Russell Brand finally grasps democracy… “The only conclusion I can draw from this is…a lot of people want the Conservatives in power, because they voted for them"
badgerx16 Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Russell Brand finally grasps democracy… “The only conclusion I can draw from this is…a lot of people want the Conservatives in power, because they voted for them" An awful lot more didn't. HTH.
trousers Posted 8 May, 2015 Author Posted 8 May, 2015 And what %age of the total national electorate voted Conservative ? EDIT : according to the Beeb, 11,316,429 out of 46,425,386, so that's just over 24%. That's democracy folks. Careful....whataboutery is frowned upon on here
Window Cleaner Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Been through more elections than I care to remember but I can honestly say that I have never been more stunned by a result. I still cant believe it. If we don't win our last 3 matches I might have to go back on the happy pills! Worst still, Katie Hopkins gets to stay in the country! Not even John Major in 92 ? Even the opinion polls gave him as losing heavily. It was the Sun what won it, well that and his soapbox..
Lord Duckhunter Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 An awful lot more didn't. HTH. Lol Do you understand how elections work?
Verbal Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Except that I'm not biased. I've voted labour in the past and I'm not predicting meltdown just because the party I didn't want got elected in. Ah, I see. You're the first human in the anthropocene epoch to be free of bias because you've "voted Labour in the past." Congratulations on your elevation to new species status.
badgerx16 Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Lol Do you understand how elections work? Of course I do, and I enjoy pointing out the iniquities of an intrinsically unbalanced system. The MAJORITY view should prevail, shouldn't it ?
badgerx16 Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 George Gideon Osborne to be Foreign Secretary, according to a tweet from the Torygraph.
Smirking_Saint Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 (edited) Of course I do, and I enjoy pointing out the iniquities of an intrinsically unbalanced system. The MAJORITY view should prevail, shouldn't it ? It was actually just short of 37% of the vote for tories, so still the biggest vote, but dont let that get in way eh ? Edited 8 May, 2015 by Smirking_Saint
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Of course I do, and I enjoy pointing out the iniquities of an intrinsically unbalanced system. The MAJORITY view should prevail, shouldn't it ? So the majority didn't want a Tory government, so what do you give them instead then?
OldNick Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 It was actually just short of 37% of the vote for labour, so still the biggest vote, but dont let that get in way eh ?notice that the Labour leaning people dont point the unfairness when they won?They only had 10 years to change it
badgerx16 Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 notice that the Labour leaning people dont point the unfairness when they won?They only had 10 years to change it I have always pointed out the statistical failures of FPTP, I think it is an outdated process that breeds voter apathy and resentment. The problem has always been that it is not it the interests of the 2 primary contenders for No 10 to do anything about a system that locks them into power.
badgerx16 Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 It was actually just short of 37% of the vote for tories, so still the biggest vote, but dont let that get in way eh ? 24% of those eligible to vote voted Tory. I'm not denying the fact that they got the largest number of votes, but weigh up the various votes per seat equations for the different parties.
Smirking_Saint Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 notice that the Labour leaning people dont point the unfairness when they won?They only had 10 years to change it Exactly, the coalition weren't all that bad, and tories wont be as bad as made out. The economic mess needs to be tackled, and I had no faith labour could do it
badgerx16 Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 So the majority didn't want a Tory government, so what do you give them instead then? Proper PR, but neither the Cons nor Lab want it.
pap Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 I have always pointed out the statistical failures of FPTP, I think it is an outdated process that breeds voter apathy and resentment. The problem has always been that it is not it the interests of the 2 primary contenders for No 10 to do anything about a system that locks them into power. I can genuinely say to be a principles man on the issue. Called both parties out for being self-serving bastards at the time.
Wade Garrett Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 I like FPTP. How would you get local representation with PR?
View From The Top Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 So the majority didn't want a Tory government, so what do you give them instead then? Some have always eschewed the view that real PR should be in place. Despite my utter dislike for UKIP it is utterly wrong that their percentage of the vote results in just one seat. PR doesn't suit either the tories or Labour so it'll never happen.
View From The Top Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 I like FPTP. How would you get local representation with PR? My genuine answer is I don't know. My local MP isn't "local" anyway. Very many aren't.
Lord Duckhunter Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 24% of those eligible to vote voted Tory. I'm not denying the fact that they got the largest number of votes, but weigh up the various votes per seat equations for the different parties. If you equalised the number of voters in each seat, the Tories will have had an even bigger majority .
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Some have always eschewed the view that real PR should be in place. Despite my utter dislike for UKIP it is utterly wrong that their percentage of the vote results in just one seat. PR doesn't suit either the tories or Labour so it'll never happen. I agree PR is the way to go for a true representation, BUT, I don't think it is a good idea for at a local level. A lot of people vote based on their local MP, and it just wouldn't work for the country (imho).
ecuk268 Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Proper PR, but neither the Cons nor Lab want it. Will turkeys vote for Christmas? Starkly illustrated by UKIP getting over 2 million more votes than the SNP and ending up with 1 seat to their 56.
View From The Top Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 If you equalised the number of voters in each seat, the Tories will have had an even bigger majority . That's due to be in by 2018 I believe. The Commons will be down from 650 to 600 IIRC.
The Cat Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 I like FPTP. How would you get local representation with PR? We don't have it now in Eastleigh. Our new MP is from near Gatwick.
Lord Duckhunter Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Some have always eschewed the view that real PR should be in place. Despite my utter dislike for UKIP it is utterly wrong that their percentage of the vote results in just one seat. PR doesn't suit either the tories or Labour so it'll never happen. The problem with " real PR" is that certain areas of the country will hold too much influence . Even the US presidential elections aren't on that basis and there's only 2 candidates . This is because long term the interests of the smaller states will suffer and the ones with big populations will hold too much influence . It's bad enough now , but over time power will flow more and more to London and the big cities with their massive populations
badgerx16 Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 If you equalised the number of voters in each seat, the Tories will have had an even bigger majority . But not necessarily more votes, so the PR argument is reinforced.
hutch Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 You think people would vote exactly the same way if it was PR? Most of them vote UKIP as a protest because they know there's not a cat's chance in hell they'll actually get lumbered with a UKIP MP.
Sour Mash Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 I agree PR is the way to go for a true representation, BUT, I don't think it is a good idea for at a local level. A lot of people vote based on their local MP, and it just wouldn't work for the country (imho). I don't think that many people base who they vote for on their local MP, most focus on the party as a whole. You could make regional representatives that front campaigns locally and are ranked in terms of who would take a seat in parliament depending on vote gained, so local personalities are not completely done away with. It is the lesser of two evils. Will probably never happen though.
Sour Mash Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 You think people would vote exactly the same way if it was PR? Most of them vote UKIP as a protest because they know there's not a cat's chance in hell they'll actually get lumbered with a UKIP MP. If anything they'd get more votes, as more chance the vote would actually count. Only Labour and Tories would lose out from PR, which is why it won't happen.
View From The Top Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 You think people would vote exactly the same way if it was PR? Most of them vote UKIP as a protest because they know there's not a cat's chance in hell they'll actually get lumbered with a UKIP MP. I'm not so sure. Many people believe totally in the message UKIP were/are giving, odd as that may seem to many if us.
Window Cleaner Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 24% of those eligible to vote voted Tory. I'm not denying the fact that they got the largest number of votes, but weigh up the various votes per seat equations for the different parties. Well perhaps if the 33% or so that couldn't be arsed to vote had voted the result might be different. The Conservatives got 37% or so of the total votes cast, seeing that they didn't get many in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland that's not a bad total.
hutch Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 If anything they'd get more votes, as more chance the vote would actually count. Only Labour and Tories would lose out from PR, which is why it won't happen. And SNP. That's around 600-odd seats
Saint Luke Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 You Do feel that if the LD had a more credible figure head then more of the LD vote would have gone their way. Personally I felt that Nick Clegg is more credible then Ed Milliband. But that's my view. Vince Cable would have been the more statesman choice.
CB Saint Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Well perhaps if the 33% or so that couldn't be arsed to vote had voted the result might be different. The Conservatives got 37% or so of the total votes cast, seeing that they didn't get many in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland that's not a bad total. they got 41% of the total votes cast in Engalnd
Lord Duckhunter Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 I'm not so sure. Many people believe totally in the message UKIP were/are giving, odd as that may seem to many if us. You're right. There is also many people who voted against UKIP to keep them out as well as some kippers that didn't bother . There is no point in voting anything other than Tory in my constituency . Vote ukip get Milliband / snp was quite a powerful message , a message that would be nonsense in a pr election I reckon the pr results for smaller parties would be slightly higher and increase as the years went on .
Wes Tender Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 I have always pointed out the statistical failures of FPTP, I think it is an outdated process that breeds voter apathy and resentment. The problem has always been that it is not it the interests of the 2 primary contenders for No 10 to do anything about a system that locks them into power. Whilst you're discussing the inequalities of the voting system, let's hear your views on the boundary changes that ought to have been implemented by 2013 and will now only come into force by 2018 and which would have favoured the Tories with an even greater proportion of the seats.
Coxford_lou Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 There need to be more in the Cabinet though I think is Lou's point. Thank you. Too busy today to get involved in the debate. But yes, and it's not just about women either. Just clever passionate people from all kinds of backgrounds as I experience on a daily basis in a normal world. Not much to ask for really.
Torres Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Damian McBride (former Labour spin doctor) on twitter: Mark my words, the Tories will regret winning this election, and they won't have anyone else to blame this time. Yes mate, I'm sure Cameron and Osbourne would love to swap places with Miliband and Balls
Lord Duckhunter Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Vince Cable would have been the more statesman choice. Dear oh dear . statesman ? Cable ? I presume you're joking . If he had any credibility at all he wouldn't have served in the coalition . Spent 5 years undermining his leader , dissing the government he was part of , a ministerial car for his principles . Deserved the kicking the old fool got.
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