How wrong was I?

[Toon Saint]

How many times have I used that word on this site? Perhaps if i keep saying it you can tell me. Or are you talking crap again Tom?

 

Can't be bothered to search that out Simon, but you can hardly say that you haven't made reference to your 'foresight' beforehand, albeit in different words or by bumping your old threads to prove a point. Maybe I am talking crap (quite probable if you ask my girlfriend) but I don't dress up what I say as gospel and bang on about it for months afterwards either. I think it is that attitude that seems to aggravate people on here, and not always the point you are making.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Can't be bothered to search that out Simon, but you can hardly say that you haven't made reference to your 'foresight' beforehand, albeit in different words or by bumping your old threads to prove a point. Maybe I am talking crap (quite probable if you ask my girlfriend) but I don't dress up what I say as gospel and bang on about it for months afterwards either. I think it is that attitude that seems to aggravate people on here, and not always the point you are making.

 

No, of course you can't, because you realise that I haven't. Using the advanced search function would have been quicker than the drivel you've just written.

 

See, the funniest thing is that people seemed to think I had/have no knowledge of what was going on in the Summer. Funniest thing is, I did. Hence why I stuck by the club through thick and thin.

 

But anyway, there is only so many times it can be said, and only so many times people will ignore it.

 

'Luckily' though, it seems we made it out of our 'asset strip'/'firesale' stronger than we started. Who'd have guessed eh?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Are you saying that if Koeman, Pelle, Alderweireld, Bertrand, Tadic and Mane all leave next summer you'd be fine with that because this game is so very easy?

 

What are you talking about?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

What are you talking about?

 

A guy with your freaky level of foresight should know already I would have thought.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

A somewhat capacious forecast, that. I predicted we'd finish 10th-12th, does that make me:

 

a) an omniscient observer blessed with 'foresight' knowing that we'd be just 'fine'

b) a hysterical tart who had abandoned any semblance of rationality and won over by the church of St. Richmond

c) someone reacting to a constant stream of poor PR, sales of five key players, constant negative media speculation, but tempering this with a knowledge of the qualities still present in the squad. a person as in the dark as everyone else (bar K Billy and Guan) about what was going on behind the scenes.

 

The whole dichotomy you erect between yourself (and a handful of selected others) as some sort of font of 'foresight' and the rest as 'childish', 'myopic', hysterical 'liars' is laughably reductive, and just suggests you are on some sort of bizarre ego-trip.

 

Frankly, I don't really care what you said, you spent the whole Summer following me around like a bad smell trying to trip me up, whilst I tried to quell discontent on the board.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Frankly, I don't really care what you said, you spent the whole Summer following me around like a bad smell trying to trip me up, whilst I tried to quell discontent on the board.

 

No its a fair point - how were you defining 'fine' ?

 

'Fine' does seem a pretty vague forecast and depending on how you interpret that term could mean anywhere from 17th place to where we are today.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

A guy with your freaky level of foresight should know already I would have thought.

 

I don't really understand what you're going on about? If we sell those 5 players and lose Koeman in the Summer I presume another plan will be in place, like this Summer. Again, we will probably be fine.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

No its a fair point - how were you defining 'fine' ?

 

'Fine' does seem a pretty vague forecast and depending on how you interpret that term could mean anywhere from 17th place to where we are today.

 

Have a look at the predictions thread, I think I said anywhere 8th to 14th.

[Toon Saint]

Frankly, I don't really care what you said, you spent the whole Summer following me around like a bad smell trying to trip me up, whilst I tried to quell discontent on the board.

 

 

Jeff, you speak about yourself in such lofty, self-righteous terms that it's hard to resist the temptation to peg you down sometimes. From what I remember you were volleying a load of abuse at the 'hysterical bedwetters', which is probably not the best solution to your heroic project of quelling discontent on an internet forum. I don't ever recall you being particularly open about this inside knowledge you supposedly had about the club being 'fine', but you seem fixated on what other people think about you on here.

Edited 21 October, 2014 by Toon Saint

[hypochondriac]

 

Jeff, you speak about yourself in such lofty, self-righteous terms that it's hard to resist the temptation to peg you down sometimes. From what I remember you were volleying a load of abuse at the 'hysterical bedwetters', which is probably not the best solution to your heroic project of quelling discontent on an internet forum. I don't ever recall you being particularly open about this inside knowledge you supposedly had about the club being 'fine', but you seem fixated on what other people think about you on here.

 

Indeed! If I were a mason and Jeff showed this attitude to me, I would be parking over his drive just to teach him a lesson.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Indeed! If I were a mason and Jeff showed this attitude to me, I would be parking over his drive just to teach him a lesson.

 

Megalolz. But then to be fair you had a go at a poster to have the temerity to write about the fact that they lost their child, so we already know you're a massive ****.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I don't really understand what you're going on about? If we sell those 5 players and lose Koeman in the Summer I presume another plan will be in place, like this Summer. Again, we will probably be fine.

 

You are seriously telling me that as a fan you be utterly unconcerned to see virtually half our 1st team and its manager go every summer and that's not a problem as far as you are concerned ... oh as long as some kind of 'plan' is it place? I take it that you are no fan of Rabbie Burns and the expression 'the best laid plans of mice and men' means nothing to you.

 

Now I know why you are called Unbelievable Jeff.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

 

Jeff, you speak about yourself in such lofty, self-righteous terms that it's hard to resist the temptation to peg you down sometimes. From what I remember you were volleying a load of abuse at the 'hysterical bedwetters', which is probably not the best solution to your heroic project of quelling discontent on an internet forum. I don't ever recall you being particularly open about this inside knowledge you supposedly had about the club being 'fine', but you seem fixated on what other people think about you on here.

 

People kept on saying we were being asset strip, it was a firesale, we were definitely going to get relegated etc, so I called some people bedwetters, who then launched abuse at me, and back and forth, and then you kept on popping up doing your best GS impression.

 

That was the Summer as far as I can remember.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

You are seriously telling me that as a fan you be utterly unconcerned to see virtually half our 1st team and its manager go every summer and that's not a problem as far as you are concerned ... oh as long as some kind of 'plan' is it place? I take it that you are no fan of Rabbie Burns and the expression 'the best laid plans of mice and men' means nothing to you.

 

Now I know why you are called Unbelievable Jeff.

 

Woah, where did I say I wouldn't be concerned, or in fact wasn't concerned last Summer? I was concerned about it, but I had also been told that the masses of stories and cr@p being written was not true, and considering the person who told me I was happy to believe it.

[Toon Saint]

Woah, where did I say I wouldn't be concerned, or in fact wasn't concerned last Summer? I was concerned about it, but I had also been told that the masses of stories and cr@p being written was not true, and considering the person who told me I was happy to believe it.

 

So was it 'foresight' or based on ITK knowledge then? It can't be both.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

So was it 'foresight' or based on ITK knowledge then? It can't be both.

 

Yes it can, initially it was foresight, and then after the Chambers deal (which I thought was strange) I decided to see if I could still get some info, and I could.

[St Marco]

But that is the point, for a lot of us it wasn't hindsight, it was foresight.

 

Seriously....

 

So you knew that after losing our chairman who guided us to the PL, our manager who got us to 8th place, our captain, our star striker, our main CB, our main LB and our potential future RB all within the space of a few months that you had the foresight to know it would turn out like it has?

 

If so fair play. I think you must be the only one. I can't remember reading/hearing any professional saying it would happen. Don't think any of our players thought it would too (Morgan etc). So well done Jeff!

 

Can you look into your crystal ball for me and tell me where we will be in another 6 months?

[Whitey Grandad]

Seriously....

 

So you knew that after losing our chairman who guided us to the PL, our manager who got us to 8th place, our captain, our star striker, our main CB, our main LB and our potential future RB all within the space of a few months that you had the foresight to know it would turn out like it has?

 

If so fair play. I think you must be the only one. I can't remember reading/hearing any professional saying it would happen. Don't think any of our players thought it would too (Morgan etc). So well done Jeff!

 

Can you look into your crystal ball for me and tell me where we will be in another 6 months?

 

The amount of money received was ample compensation and virtually guaranteed success in the medium term at least.

[St Marco]

The amount of money received was ample compensation and virtually guaranteed success in the medium term at least.

 

Not sure you can say money is a guarantee for success? After all Man Utd paid £60m for one player and we are above them?

[Whitey Grandad]

Not sure you can say money is a guarantee for success? After all Man Utd paid £60m for one player and we are above them?

 

It's early days yet. Where do you think the success of the top teams has come from over the last 10 years or so, I don't think it was from better coaching. Where were Chelsea until Abramovich started bankrolling them?

[Ohio Saint]

I never wet the bed, but my mattress was seriously worried every time I went to sleep.

I just had the feeling that our meteoric rise back to the top was over and we would soon be following the same old Saints again very soon.

Who could have known that some meteors just take a lot longer to come down to Earth than others!?

[buctootim]

Not sure you can say money is a guarantee for success? After all Man Utd paid £60m for one player and we are above them?

 

Its not a guarantee but it makes it much much more likely in the short term and almost inevitable in the long term..

[Frank's cousin]

The amount of money received was ample compensation and virtually guaranteed success in the medium term at least.

 

sorry whitely, but have seen that spending loads is no guarantee... Many examples so always better to keep stars where possible that you know are are performing well, than the risks associated with new players...

 

To put some perspective on this, as always how we see this does tend to depend on our overall feelings two wards take in charge... There seems to a pretty close correlation between those with 'foresight' and those who were glad to see the last regime disappear... But that's another discussion.

 

What does not seem to be raised is that it's the clubs 'succession' planning that seems to have worked and worked perhaps better than even the most optimistic could have foreseen.

 

Cortese and Reed at some point early on put in place a strategy that no one employee would ever be 'irreplaceable' the committed to a structure and style that was the Southampton Way... Maybe to some little more than a sound bite, but the reality it seems is that it meant our managers have been selected to do particular job within a defined long term plan... And not simply revert to their own 'style' and over haul the complete team and playing style... Its why we have seen progress and success despite having 4 Managers in 6 years when that goes against the conventional wisdom.... But it's because we ave selected managers to suit the SFC way, that will buy into the existing philosophy and approach, rather than do their own thing... Same seems to go with the players brought in.

 

My biggest covers when we lost Cortese was that we might revert to the more traditional way... Nap bringing in managers as staff who were available, but would be doing their own thing and building from scratch.... Add to that the unprecedented numbers of key players who left, the crappy communication, and I feel totally justified in being concerned.

 

Thankfully, it seem Reed, KL and Ralph did want to continue the 'Way' that was introduced by Cortese and Reed.... And the succession plan was successful. For the benefit ofTurkish so as not to confuse the dear boy, the 'luck' I refer to in an earlier post is not to do with the succession plan, but in the simple fact that even with the best plan in the world, players still need to settle, Gell and integrate - the fact that ours have so quickly is in part because they appear to have been selected as team players, but also down luck.... If we see a similar set of departures again in the summer... I will not be worried that the board don't have a plan, but I will still be concerned that we might not be so lucky next time no matter how good the intention. We do eventually need to try and convince players to stay for contractual terms if we are progressing- otherwise what is the point? Whatever, some may think of Cortese, he did see to have the ego/knack of convincing players of the ambition with Saints... The current board are doing an excellent job... Very happy that I can say that despite not being convinced before... Fully des ever every bit of credit they are getting right now, but there will be further tests next summer and they may not have the fortune next time around.

[St Marco]

It's early days yet. Where do you think the success of the top teams has come from over the last 10 years or so, I don't think it was from better coaching. Where were Chelsea until Abramovich started bankrolling them?

 

Of course. What I am saying is that for every expensive player who does well there is an expensive player who flops. Some say Torres was a flop and he was what £50m? The difference is teams like Chelsea can write off the flop and buy another player just as expensive. But that's what the fair play rules are trying to stop. If we look at those who left us only Lallana is doing okay. We ourselves have had some big money transfers that did not go as we hoped. Ramirez, Osvaldo and Long could be added to that list eventually. Spurs spent over £100m a season or so ago and it has not really done anything for them in regards to stability and consistency.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Seriously....

 

So you knew that after losing our chairman who guided us to the PL, our manager who got us to 8th place, our captain, our star striker, our main CB, our main LB and our potential future RB all within the space of a few months that you had the foresight to know it would turn out like it has?

 

If so fair play. I think you must be the only one. I can't remember reading/hearing any professional saying it would happen. Don't think any of our players thought it would too (Morgan etc). So well done Jeff!

 

Can you look into your crystal ball for me and tell me where we will be in another 6 months?

 

Hand on heart, I knew we'd be fine. I knew there was no firesale or asset stripping happening. I didn't know we'd be 3rd mind.

 

You should read Football 365, they were about the only sensible part of the press who were correct throughout the Summer.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Of course. What I am saying is that for every expensive player who does well there is an expensive player who flops. Some say Torres was a flop and he was what £50m? The difference is teams like Chelsea can write off the flop and buy another player just as expensive. But that's what the fair play rules are trying to stop. If we look at those who left us only Lallana is doing okay. We ourselves have had some big money transfers that did not go as we hoped. Ramirez, Osvaldo and Long could be added to that list eventually. Spurs spent over £100m a season or so ago and it has not really done anything for them in regards to stability and consistency.

 

Didn't get relegated did they, and also ended on pretty much the same points as the season before, without Bale and with Tim ****ing Sherwood as manager.

[Wes Tender]

I'm sure most people were concerned, but as trousers rightly points out it was the way that concern was expressed.

 

Whilst some had a hissy fit and invented (or believed) stories of a meltdown, chaos, conflict behind the scenes, sellng up, asset stripping, etc etc etc, many others fortunately saw it for what it was. i.e. A few ego & £££££ driven individuals flexing their muscles and demanding a move.

 

And fortunately this many were also prepared to give those in power a bit of time to respond and deal their way out of the situation, time afforded to a group who had helped haul us from the bottom of div 1 to the Top Flight. For me they deserved that benefit of the doubt, not the awful responses that saw them harangued and abused.

 

Good players will still leave us (can see Tadic being snapped up & Clyne being tempted) and am sure at some point Koeman will depart, and just next time the obvious disappointment can be tempered somewhat.

 

My position on this is exactly the same as yours. Much of the concern felt by fans was due to the hysteria whipped up by the media which proved to be groundless. Despite assurances being given by Reed and Krueger, the media was relentless in its conspiracy theories and groundless speculation.

 

Under the circumstances, the more gullible would believe that because it was printed in a Red Top newspaper it must be the truth, whereas others had a giant pile of salt that they periodically took pinches from. Ultimately, the factor that changed the perception of most sensible posters, was the signing of Koeman. That made no sense if the Club was being sold and if he hadn't been convinced at his interview stage that he would be given the funds and support to rebuild the team to his specfication.

 

Those that lacked the faith in our board and are relieved and happy to admit that they were wrong, are worthy of praise for being big enough to admit it. Those who went way over the top and called Reed a waste of space, who insulted Krueger and indulged in puerile name-calling towards Katharina, deserve all the derision they have got and I note that some are bleating about it now. In future, they really should not dish it out if they can't take it back.

[St Marco]

Didn't get relegated did they, and also ended on pretty much the same points as the season before.

 

But the point was to get into the CL was it not? If they spent £100m just to stay where they were before do you consider that a good investment? Liverpool have spent a fortune this season and I don't think they will be challenging for the title this year? Point being spending big money only works if you get the right players.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

But the point was to get into the CL was it not? If they spent £100m just to stay where they were before do you consider that a good investment? Liverpool have spent a fortune this season and I don't think they will be challenging for the title this year? Point being spending big money only works if you get the right players.

 

To a degree, they lost Bale and weren't going to stay still by not spending a lot of money. Liverpool were lucky to finish second last year and then lost the best player in the league.

[eelpie]

I'm not panicking

[Frank's cousin]

My position on this is exactly the same as yours. Much of the concern felt by fans was due to the hysteria whipped up by the media which proved to be groundless. Despite assurances being given by Reed and Krueger, the media was relentless in its conspiracy theories and groundless speculation.

 

Under the circumstances, the more gullible would believe that because it was printed in a Red Top newspaper it must be the truth, whereas others had a giant pile of salt that they periodically took pinches from. Ultimately, the factor that changed the perception of most sensible posters, was the signing of Koeman. That made no sense if the Club was being sold and if he hadn't been convinced at his interview stage that he would be given the funds and support to rebuild the team to his specfication.

 

Those that lacked the faith in our board and are relieved and happy to admit that they were wrong, are worthy of praise for being big enough to admit it. Those who went way over the top and called Reed a waste of space, who insulted Krueger and indulged in puerile name-calling towards Katharina, deserve all the derision they have got and I note that some are bleating about it now. In future, they really should not dish it out if they can't take it back.

 

Wes, I think you need to tone down the self righteousness a little here because you state the 'assurances given by Reed and Krueger' yet fail to acknowledge that even within 24 hours actions went against what they said.... The issue there was one of credibility.

 

You are trying to tar many posters with the same 'gullible' brush, and it's a bit arrogant to suggest the 'most sensible posters' etc.... The reality is most professionals and even the less sensationalist leader writers were suggesting we would struggle.... Not because they wanted us to, not because of some 'agenda' or dislike for saints but because a side losing it's 5 best players was unprecedented and all logic pointed towards a season of difficulty... So some reacted angrily, some went OTT, some just disappointed. Fair play to the those who were genuinely unconcerned... But I suggest that their number is far fewer than the number crawling out with 'told you so' rhetoric now.

 

It does now appear that the sales was coped with because of a succession plan originated way back when Cortese brought in Reed... The same succession plan that saw Pards, and Nige replaced and allowed us to cope with Pochs departure ( see above post), but that does not take anything away from the simple fact that it was still risky given the numbers and quality of the players we lost.... And the need for rapid assimilation of the replacements...

[Toon Saint]

My position on this is exactly the same as yours. Much of the concern felt by fans was due to the hysteria whipped up by the media which proved to be groundless. Despite assurances being given by Reed and Krueger, the media was relentless in its conspiracy theories and groundless speculation.

 

Under the circumstances, the more gullible would believe that because it was printed in a Red Top newspaper it must be the truth, whereas others had a giant pile of salt that they periodically took pinches from. Ultimately, the factor that changed the perception of most sensible posters, was the signing of Koeman. That made no sense if the Club was being sold and if he hadn't been convinced at his interview stage that he would be given the funds and support to rebuild the team to his specfication.

 

Those that lacked the faith in our board and are relieved and happy to admit that they were wrong, are worthy of praise for being big enough to admit it. Those who went way over the top and called Reed a waste of space, who insulted Krueger and indulged in puerile name-calling towards Katharina, deserve all the derision they have got and I note that some are bleating about it now. In future, they really should not dish it out if they can't take it back.

 

The speculation was so groundless that even the likes of Morgan started believing it and wanted out? Sorry, but the club doesn't exist in some hermetically sealed bubble impervious to bad publicity or PR gaffes. At least modern football clubs don't exist that way. The fact that 5 key players left and others wanted out would suggest it was more than a conspiracy theory constructed by the media. We've done brilliantly well to come out it so well, but why is there this ridiculous right/wrong dichotomy being spouted, whereby criticism levied at individual members of the board is no longer allowed to stand and is worthy of derision just because we now stand 3rd in the table? I thought Krueger did a crap job over the summer and I still think he did a crap job now, for reasons I explained at the time and can't be bothered to re-hash now. Why speak of the board as some sort of monolithic structure that we can only judge from one perspective and at one moment in time? I think this is a tad simplistic and tends to ignore some of the complexities of the criticisms that were made over the course of the summer. Only a small handful were consciously slagging off board members without thought and talking about asset-stripping, and the majority of those were on an obvious wind-up.

[Wes Tender]

Wes, I think you need to tone down the self righteousness a little here because you state the 'assurances given by Reed and Krueger' yet fail to acknowledge that even within 24 hours actions went against what they said.... The issue there was one of credibility.

I believed the assurances given by the board, or at least was prepared to give them time to prove themselves. It does sometimes happen that assurances are overtaken by events beyond the board's control. That does not make them liars. If you didn't find the board's assurances credible, events have now proved that they were.

 

You are trying to tar many posters with the same 'gullible' brush, and it's a bit arrogant to suggest the 'most sensible posters' etc....

The ones I'm tarring are those knee-jerk merchants who resorted to petty puerile name-calling. That isn't something that sensible people indulge in, is it? Oh, pardon my arrogance for suggesting such a thing.

 

The reality is most professionals and even the less sensationalist leader writers were suggesting we would struggle.... Not because they wanted us to, not because of some 'agenda' or dislike for saints but because a side losing it's 5 best players was unprecedented and all logic pointed towards a season of difficulty... So some reacted angrily, some went OTT, some just disappointed. Fair play to the those who were genuinely unconcerned... But I suggest that their number is far fewer than the number crawling out with 'told you so' rhetoric now.

 

It has already been stated a few posts above that very few were unconcerned. I was concerned. Most were concerned. But your posts at the time were not very rounded and balanced and frankly, Frank, you lost it a bit. Which is probably why you doth protest rather a lot now in an effort to justify your position.

 

It does now appear that the sales was coped with because of a succession plan originated way back when Cortese brought in Reed... The same succession plan that saw Pards, and Nige replaced and allowed us to cope with Pochs departure ( see above post), but that does not take anything away from the simple fact that it was still risky given the numbers and quality of the players we lost.... And the need for rapid assimilation of the replacements...

 

Reed comes out of this extremely well and yet he was vilified as a waste of space in a thread. It seems that all the groundwork meticulously carried out by him for just such an eventuality as this Summer's events has been rewarded with success. Thankfully the point has been made very forcefully that no player is bigger than the club.

[Wes Tender]

The speculation was so groundless that even the likes of Morgan started believing it and wanted out? Sorry, but the club doesn't exist in some hermetically sealed bubble impervious to bad publicity or PR gaffes. At least modern football clubs don't exist that way. The fact that 5 key players left and others wanted out would suggest it was more than a conspiracy theory constructed by the media. We've done brilliantly well to come out it so well, but why is there this ridiculous right/wrong dichotomy being spouted, whereby criticism levied at individual members of the board is no longer allowed to stand and is worthy of derision just because we now stand 3rd in the table? I thought Krueger did a crap job over the summer and I still think he did a crap job now, for reasons I explained at the time and can't be bothered to re-hash now. Why speak of the board as some sort of monolithic structure that we can only judge from one perspective and at one moment in time? I think this is a tad simplistic and tends to ignore some of the complexities of the criticisms that were made over the course of the summer. Only a small handful were consciously slagging off board members without thought and talking about asset-stripping, and the majority of those were on an obvious wind-up.

 

There may have been any number of reasons why Morgan might have wanted to leave, among them the domino effect of several others leaving, his agent causing trouble in order to gain commission from his sale, thoughts that he might have a better chance of playing for France at another club, many things like that. But it can't have helped that there was all this speculation in the media that Katharina was conducting a firesale to sell the club and other baseless speculation peddled by the media and swallowed hook line and sinker by some of our more gullible fans. The generally accepted view from most on the players leaving was purely that they did it for motives of naked greed, rather than the reasons that they would like us to believe, that they felt the club lacked ambition and no longer targeted playing in the Champions League.

 

I don't see many claiming that the board should be above criticism, merely that it was not acceptable to have been so pathetically childish and insulting with the name-calling. You admit yourself that there was a small handful who were consciously slagging off the board without thought. Do I detect some mild criticism of them from you? Surely not! You say that the majority of those were on an obvious wind-up. If that is so, then I really don't see why you need to make such a song and dance of protecting them.

[Charlie Wayman]

I was also concerned about the summer "exodus" but I tend to hang fire on making a judgement until I've seen how things pan out.

 

Sure but doesn't fence sitting become uncomfortable after a while?

[SarniaSaint]

sorry whitely, but have seen that spending loads is no guarantee... Many examples so always better to keep stars where possible that you know are are performing well, than the risks associated with new players...

 

To put some perspective on this, as always how we see this does tend to depend on our overall feelings two wards take in charge... There seems to a pretty close correlation between those with 'foresight' and those who were glad to see the last regime disappear... But that's another discussion.

 

What does not seem to be raised is that it's the clubs 'succession' planning that seems to have worked and worked perhaps better than even the most optimistic could have foreseen.

 

Cortese and Reed at some point early on put in place a strategy that no one employee would ever be 'irreplaceable' the committed to a structure and style that was the Southampton Way... Maybe to some little more than a sound bite, but the reality it seems is that it meant our managers have been selected to do particular job within a defined long term plan... And not simply revert to their own 'style' and over haul the complete team and playing style... Its why we have seen progress and success despite having 4 Managers in 6 years when that goes against the conventional wisdom.... But it's because we ave selected managers to suit the SFC way, that will buy into the existing philosophy and approach, rather than do their own thing... Same seems to go with the players brought in.

 

My biggest covers when we lost Cortese was that we might revert to the more traditional way... Nap bringing in managers as staff who were available, but would be doing their own thing and building from scratch.... Add to that the unprecedented numbers of key players who left, the crappy communication, and I feel totally justified in being concerned.

 

Thankfully, it seem Reed, KL and Ralph did want to continue the 'Way' that was introduced by Cortese and Reed.... And the succession plan was successful. For the benefit ofTurkish so as not to confuse the dear boy, the 'luck' I refer to in an earlier post is not to do with the succession plan, but in the simple fact that even with the best plan in the world, players still need to settle, Gell and integrate - the fact that ours have so quickly is in part because they appear to have been selected as team players, but also down luck.... If we see a similar set of departures again in the summer... I will not be worried that the board don't have a plan, but I will still be concerned that we might not be so lucky next time no matter how good the intention. We do eventually need to try and convince players to stay for contractual terms if we are progressing- otherwise what is the point? Whatever, some may think of Cortese, he did see to have the ego/knack of convincing players of the ambition with Saints... The current board are doing an excellent job... Very happy that I can say that despite not being convinced before... Fully des ever every bit of credit they are getting right now, but there will be further tests next summer and they may not have the fortune next time around.

 

Great post Frank

 

I know I'm "persona non gratta" to some on here but have see another dig me above. Sorry I aint as perfect as some LOL

 

BTW haven't seen a "red top" paper in 40 years TF

[Redslo]

What is a red top paper?

[Noodles34]

What is a red top paper?

 

It's what the great British public get their facts about what's going on in the world, reckon a few on here read them too.

[Redslo]

It's what the great British public get their facts about what's going on in the world, reckon a few on here read them too.

 

where does red top come from? What papers qualify? The Times? The Telegraph? The Daily Mail?

[Stud mark of doom]

where does red top come from? What papers qualify? The Times? The Telegraph? The Daily Mail?

 

The ones with red at the top.

[CB Fry]

where does red top come from? What papers qualify? The Times? The Telegraph? The Daily Mail?

The Sun, The Mirror, The Star and their Sunday equivalents. None of the papers you mention.

[PhilippineSaint]

Come on lets put him out of his misery in order they are (please castigate me if wrong)

 

The Sun

The Daily Mirror(Record in Scotland)

The Daily Star

The Sport (Possibly Closed)

Sunday equivelants of above

Sunday People

 

Called Red Tops because they in fact have a red top on the front page with a normal Black typeface.

 

The I have met Elvis on the moon as a headline papers, sold to the mass's by the educated class's to ensure that education does not get to far or that the proper news doesn't.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Come on lets put him out of his misery in order they are (please castigate me if wrong)

 

The Sun

The Daily Mirror(Record in Scotland)

The Daily Star

The Sport (Possibly Closed)

Sunday equivelants of above

Sunday People

 

Called Red Tops because they in fact have a red top on the front page with a normal Black typeface.

 

The I have met Elvis on the moon as a headline papers, sold to the mass's by the educated class's to ensure that education does not get to far or that the proper news doesn't.

 

I would actually add the Express and the Mail in there now, those two papers are THAT bad.

[trousers]

Sure but doesn't fence sitting become uncomfortable after a while?

What's more "uncomfortable"? Sitting on the fence or questioning those that do?

[Redslo]

Come on lets put him out of his misery in order they are (please castigate me if wrong)

 

The Sun

The Daily Mirror(Record in Scotland)

The Daily Star

The Sport (Possibly Closed)

Sunday equivelants of above

Sunday People

 

Called Red Tops because they in fact have a red top on the front page with a normal Black typeface.

 

The I have met Elvis on the moon as a headline papers, sold to the mass's by the educated class's to ensure that education does not get to far or that the proper news doesn't.

 

Thank you.

[Turkish]

where does red top come from? What papers qualify? The Times? The Telegraph? The Daily Mail?

 

The red at the top is symbolic of the blood on their hands for all the false stories and lies the lazy, lying scumbag journos tell that work for these papers have.

[WIGANSAINT]

I don't think we can do the same every summer though .Because sooner or later you end up going down .Still not convinced by kat either that she really is in it for the long term.Call me a cynic but its still early days this season.Next 10 matches for me will determine if we will do better this season,but up to now I have been proven wrong and glad I have been

[Whitey Grandad]

I don't think we can do the same every summer though .Because sooner or later you end up going down .Still not convinced by kat either that she really is in it for the long term.Call me a cynic but its still early days this season.Next 10 matches for me will determine if we will do better this season,but up to now I have been proven wrong and glad I have been

 

You are wise to wait. Nobody has been proved wrong or right yet.

[buctootim]

where does red top come from? What papers qualify? The Times? The Telegraph? The Daily Mail?

 

 

 

The front pages tell you kind of papers they are. Red top is a short hand. Traditionally tabloids were carp and the broadsheets were quality. Decent papers include the Guardian, Times, Telegraph and Independent.