Price of Football

[ThorpG]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29527838

 

We ain't cheap....

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I find this the most annoying day of the year. People's faux anger and outrage at the price of football is ridiculous, especially as most clubs in the league tend to make losses.

 

You want a quality product all the way down the leagues, wages are higher and thus ticket prices are higher.

[Dan Johnson]

You can move up north, live in a bigger cheaper house, watch the same stand of football, cheaper, drink the same beer, cheaper.

 

You will have to start watching coronation street, eating hotpots and put up with the bleaker job prospects though.

 

It's nothing to do with football really, just shows the major disparity of the national economy.

 

Be thankful we live in an affluent area

[ThorpG]

I find this the most annoying day of the year. People's faux anger and outrage at the price of football is ridiculous, especially as most clubs in the league tend to make losses.

 

You want a quality product all the way down the leagues, wages are higher and thus ticket prices are higher.

 

I read it differently - we struggle to fill the stadium and we have an issue with low commercial income (as highlighted by the club itself). Our prices are higher than most other premier league clubs (tickets, shirts, food etc.). No 'faux anger' just an observation that maybe our pricing structure is wrong.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

I find this the most annoying day of the year. People's faux anger and outrage at the price of football is ridiculous, especially as most clubs in the league tend to make losses.

 

You want a quality product all the way down the leagues, wages are higher and thus ticket prices are higher.

 

Hmm not sure I agree with that. That a club makes a loss doesn't mean ticket prices should go up. Football is an expensive business to follow and its silly that the most popular league in the world does not have sold out stadiums for every single game. It clearly shows something is wrong. In a league where ticket revenue is dwarfed by TV revenue you would think clubs would come up with creative and fair ways to make watching the game accessible to all. I guess FFP has impacted that a little as well.

[Saint Mikey]

I find this the most annoying day of the year. People's faux anger and outrage at the price of football is ridiculous, especially as most clubs in the league tend to make losses.

 

You want a quality product all the way down the leagues, wages are higher and thus ticket prices are higher.

 

Faux anger? What about the people who have acted with their feet? I thought the club were taking the p!ss by putting STs up again this year after getting £80m in TV money and jacked in my ST. I know quite a few other people who have as well. Clubs will continually expect fans to bend over and take it, until people stop going. Then the prices will come down, but not massively...

[Monkou]

The reality is that any business will charge as much as it can to maximise revenues. They could fill those last 1000 seats with a 5 pound price cut but they would be losing money overall so it would not be worth it.

 

The only realistic way prices would fall for saints is if they increased the size of the stadium too much and then had to cut prices to fill it.

 

Alternatively, if there was a Europe wide Salary cap (not going to happen) that would also bring prices down eventually.

 

What annoys me is that people, not so much at saints thankfully, seem to think a football club is some kind of charity and that they are entitled to watch their team for a low price. If you don´t want to pay for it then dont, go watch your local team, the reserves of the women´s side. If enough people feel the same way then prices will come down.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Hmm not sure I agree with that. That a club makes a loss doesn't mean ticket prices should go up. Football is an expensive business to follow and its silly that the most popular league in the world does not have sold out stadiums for every single game. It clearly shows something is wrong. In a league where ticket revenue is dwarfed by TV revenue you would think clubs would come up with creative and fair ways to make watching the game accessible to all. I guess FFP has impacted that a little as well.

 

But the need to maximise revenues is due to the high wages paid by the clubs. Clubs use price optimisation software as most companies do. It's not about full stadiums. It's about maximising matchday revenues.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Faux anger? What about the people who have acted with their feet? I thought the club were taking the p!ss by putting STs up again this year after getting £80m in TV money and jacked in my ST. I know quite a few other people who have as well. Clubs will continually expect fans to bend over and take it, until people stop going. Then the prices will come down, but not massively...

 

And you don't think that 80m was taken into account. Let's wait until the end of this financial year and we'll see how the clubs have done financially before saying whether the price increase was correct or not.

[shurlock]

Gate receipts are a drip in the ocean compared to TV money and being successful on the pitch, so while pricing tickets more cheaply is unlikely to maximise revenue in the short-term (which is to say price optimisation software is garbage for capturing more complex dynamic effects), that revenue gained will hardly move the dial and affect the ability to compete for better players.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Gate receipts are a drip in the ocean compared to TV money and being successful on the pitch, so while pricing tickets more cheaply is unlikely to maximise revenue in the short-term (which is to say price optimisation software is garbage for capturing more complex dynamic effects), that revenue gained will hardly move the dial and affect the ability to compete for better players.

 

Matchday revenue must be worth about £25m a year to Saints as a guess, whereas tv will be worth about £70m. Hardly a drop in the ocean is it?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26365955

[Sour Mash]

I read it differently - we struggle to fill the stadium and we have an issue with low commercial income (as highlighted by the club itself). Our prices are higher than most other premier league clubs (tickets, shirts, food etc.). No 'faux anger' just an observation that maybe our pricing structure is wrong.

Our prices aren't really higher than other Prem clubs. Everything is expensive these days - test match cricket, gigs, music festivals, a couple of pints, it's all a bit of a rip off, but its basic supply and demand.

[Sour Mash]

Matchday revenue must be worth about £25m a year to Saints as a guess, whereas tv will be worth about £70m. Hardly a drop in the ocean is it?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26365955

Exactly, definitely not a drop in the ocean.

[ant]

What these studies fail to take into account is a weighting based on how many of the cheapest/most expensive tickets are available at each ground. So Arsenal's cheapest tickets are £27? Whoop-de-doo - but how many people are able to take advantage of that?

 

If they can't be bothered to do that, the mean or median would still be far more representative. Arguably it's circa £2.50 for a teabag and some hot water that's the real scam.

[angelman]

People complain about high ticket prices. People complain about not holding on to players by not paying them 6 figure weekly salaries. People complain about signings. People complain about an awful lot of things. People seem not to realise that everything is linked. You want better players etc, you have to pay more. Sure TV revenue is much bigger than most other income streams for most clubs, so if you are ambitious and FFP rules mean you have to live within your means, then ticket prices are going to only go one way.

[shurlock]

Matchday revenue must be worth about £25m a year to Saints as a guess, whereas tv will be worth about £70m. Hardly a drop in the ocean is it?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26365955

 

Nobody is suggesting making tickets free

 

The point is that the revenue foregone in the short-term from ad hoc reductions and additional discounts for targeted groups/games is likely to be small in the big picture.

Edited 15 October, 2014 by shurlock

[JackanorySFC]

You can move up north, live in a bigger cheaper house, watch the same stand of football, cheaper, drink the same beer, cheaper.

 

You will have to start watching coronation street, eating hotpots and put up with the bleaker job prospects though.

 

It's nothing to do with football really, just shows the major disparity of the national economy.

 

Be thankful we live in an affluent area

 

The City of Southampton is far from an affluent area. Just because posh people in Winchester, the New Forest, Dorset etc can afford a jolly nice day out at their nearest Premier League experience, does not detract that Football is ingrained in the cultural heritage of our City, the team are representing the City of Southampton and I find it pretty repulsive that people are content that young kids from families in any of the dozens of Council Estates across our City are priced out of going and instead growing up watching it on the TV (the same TV that shows endless matches involving the big sides, making the nippers more likely to support them rather than their home City club).

 

This isn't faux anger by the way, it's real anger, anger at the apathy shown by football fans in general. Tribalism and partisan support of their own club makes this a really hard issue to support. When City had a low gate against Roma a few weeks ago, most of the comments in the Guardian/ Times/ Telegraph comment's sections were from gloating fans of Liverpool, United, Chelsea etc mocking their gate. Hardly any offering any solidarity and supporting the City fans saying £38 is a lot of money mid week for a largely working class support.

 

Liverpool's Spirit of Shankly group are doing great work to highlight the shocking prices we are being fleeced. I don't like the Club, the City or their greedy, mercenary ex Saints players, however I'd stand shoulder to shoulder to them on this matter. Some things are more important than this week's/ season's result/ league finish. Having a legacy our kids and their mates, no matter their economic situation, can be part of should be a part of should be a real priority.

Edited 15 October, 2014 by JackanorySFC

[angelman]

Liverpool cheapest @ £37 vs ours at £32 doesn't even tell half the story. Personally, I would think that a £37 restricted view seat is such bad value for money, and one that I wouldn't even pay £5 for. Why go to a game when you can't see the whole pitch? As Ant says, the £27 Arsenal doesn't really tell the whole story either.

[The Cat]

I didn't realise our most expensive matchday ticket was £52 or that a pie was £4.

 

Some of the other clubs pricing needs more background than a simple spreadsheet. How many season tickets do Man City make available for £299? The same with Newcastle's £15 match ticket. Presumably these are in the family stand?

[The Cat]

The City of Southampton is far from an affluent area. Just because posh people in Winchester, the New Forest, Dorset etc can afford a jolly nice day out at their nearest Premier League experience, does not detract that Football is ingrained in the cultural heritage of our City, the team are representing the City of Southampton and I find it pretty repulsive that people are content that young kids from families in any of the dozens of Council Estates across our City are priced out of going and instead growing up watching it on the TV (the same TV that shows endless matches involving the big sides, making the nippers more likely to support them rather than their home City club).

 

This isn't faux anger by the way, it's real anger, anger at the apathy shown by football fans in general. Tribalism and partisan support of their own club makes this a really hard issue to support. When City had a low gate against Roma a few weeks ago, most of the comments in the Guardian/ Times/ Telegraph comment's sections were from gloating fans of Liverpool, United, Chelsea etc mocking their gate. Hardly any offering any solidarity and supporting the City fans saying £38 is a lot of money mid week for a largely working class support.

 

Liverpool's Spirit of Shankly group are doing great work to highlight the shocking prices we are being fleeced. I don't like the Club, the City or their greedy, mercenary ex Saints players, however I'd stand shoulder to shoulder to them on this matter. Some things are more important than this week's/ season's result/ league finish. Having a legacy our kids and their mates, no matter their economic situation, can be part of should be a part of should be a real priority.

 

I agree with this, and it's why most clubs support is now drawn from outside the city centres and made up mainly of those living in the suburbs or neighbouring villages. It's also why atmospheres have dropped off in the Premier League because your 45 year old Bank Manager from Lymington isn't as likely to join in with songs as your 22 year old mechanic from Sholing.

 

We were discussing this at Spurs a couple of weeks back. How many people who live in and around their ground have a chance of affording match tickets?

 

BUt ultimately it comes down to revenue, and the clubs don't necessarily care where the match going fan comes from as long as they come.

[SB]

Most expensive match day program at £4 joint highest pie along with citeh at £4 and finally joint highest with United on a cup of tea £2.50 uhoh..

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Nobody is suggesting making tickets free

 

The point is that the revenue foregone in the short-term from ad hoc reductions and additional discounts for targeted groups/games is likely to be small in the big picture.

 

So instead of a club making a 6m loss, you propose they make a 10 or 12m loss to make sure we fill the stadiums. There is NO way an overdraft facilitator would allow that.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

The City of Southampton is far from an affluent area. Just because posh people in Winchester, the New Forest, Dorset etc can afford a jolly nice day out at their nearest Premier League experience, does not detract that Football is ingrained in the cultural heritage of our City, the team are representing the City of Southampton and I find it pretty repulsive that people are content that young kids from families in any of the dozens of Council Estates across our City are priced out of going and instead growing up watching it on the TV (the same TV that shows endless matches involving the big sides, making the nippers more likely to support them rather than their home City club).

 

This isn't faux anger by the way, it's real anger, anger at the apathy shown by football fans in general. Tribalism and partisan support of their own club makes this a really hard issue to support. When City had a low gate against Roma a few weeks ago, most of the comments in the Guardian/ Times/ Telegraph comment's sections were from gloating fans of Liverpool, United, Chelsea etc mocking their gate. Hardly any offering any solidarity and supporting the City fans saying £38 is a lot of money mid week for a largely working class support.

 

Liverpool's Spirit of Shankly group are doing great work to highlight the shocking prices we are being fleeced. I don't like the Club, the City or their greedy, mercenary ex Saints players, however I'd stand shoulder to shoulder to them on this matter. Some things are more important than this week's/ season's result/ league finish. Having a legacy our kids and their mates, no matter their economic situation, can be part of should be a part of should be a real priority.

 

But the point is the fans AREN'T being fleeced. If the money was going into the owners pockets or being paid out in dividends then fair enough, but it's not, it's going towards balancing the books.

 

The issue is the wages that get paid and the prices paid for players. We have people complaining about 'only' getting £16m for an 18 year old right back, and then in the next breath complaining that ticket prices are too high.

[Doctoroncall]

Matchday revenue must be worth about £25m a year to Saints as a guess, whereas tv will be worth about £70m. Hardly a drop in the ocean is it?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26365955

 

What percentage is the ticket price in the matchday revenue?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

What percentage is the ticket price in the matchday revenue?

 

I went for about 80% in my simple guess. Did 30000 x 600, it's probably on average quite a bit more.

[Doctoroncall]

I went for about 80% in my simple guess. Did 30000 x 600, it's probably on average quite a bit more.

 

So say £20m for tickets, if they cost 20 percent less, then that £4m wouldn't be a great lose in the grand scheme, with a potential of increased match day sales from more fans attending, so maybe a £2-3m lose at the end.

[angelman]

Most expensive match day program at £4 joint highest pie along with citeh at £4 and finally joint highest with United on a cup of tea £2.50 uhoh..

 

Exactly - none are necessary and none diminish from the enjoyment (or otherwise) of the game. I haven't bought a programme this season - I only buy them with the nipper and he has only been to one game and even then, the queue was too long. I haven't bought a cup of tea, but I did buy a hotdog. Can't remember what it cost.

 

But I do wonder how we stack up against other clubs for the Magnum ice cream at half time from the pitch side sellers?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

So say £20m for tickets, if they cost 20 percent less, then that £4m wouldn't be a great lose in the grand scheme, with a potential of increased match day sales from more fans attending, so maybe a £2-3m lose at the end.

 

But when a company is making a loss and borrowing money you have to justify that loss - the banks won't lend money just because they want to fill the stadium.

 

Plus you can't guarantee that would even fill the stadium for games against Stoke, QPR and the like.

[kwsaint]

The City of Southampton is far from an affluent area. Just because posh people in Winchester, the New Forest, Dorset etc can afford a jolly nice day out at their nearest Premier League experience, does not detract that Football is ingrained in the cultural heritage of our City, the team are representing the City of Southampton and I find it pretty repulsive that people are content that young kids from families in any of the dozens of Council Estates across our City are priced out of going and instead growing up watching it on the TV (the same TV that shows endless matches involving the big sides, making the nippers more likely to support them rather than their home City club).

 

This isn't faux anger by the way, it's real anger, anger at the apathy shown by football fans in general. Tribalism and partisan support of their own club makes this a really hard issue to support. When City had a low gate against Roma a few weeks ago, most of the comments in the Guardian/ Times/ Telegraph comment's sections were from gloating fans of Liverpool, United, Chelsea etc mocking their gate. Hardly any offering any solidarity and supporting the City fans saying £38 is a lot of money mid week for a largely working class support.

 

Liverpool's Spirit of Shankly group are doing great work to highlight the shocking prices we are being fleeced. I don't like the Club, the City or their greedy, mercenary ex Saints players, however I'd stand shoulder to shoulder to them on this matter. Some things are more important than this week's/ season's result/ league finish. Having a legacy our kids and their mates, no matter their economic situation, can be part of should be a part of should be a real priority.

 

bit of a generalisation...

[Unbelievable Jeff]

The issue isn't with ticket prices, the issue is with identifying talent earlier in a players life cycle, and being able to pay less for them and pay less wages. See Lallana and Tadic as a good example.

 

People always compare us to Germany, but their wages are significantly lower than their equivalent in the the EPL.

[Sour Mash]

So say £20m for tickets, if they cost 20 percent less, then that £4m wouldn't be a great lose in the grand scheme, with a potential of increased match day sales from more fans attending, so maybe a £2-3m lose at the end.

What do you do for a living?

[trousers]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/football-is-cheaper-if-you-dont-bother-says-survey-2013091379436

[Sour Mash]

I didn't realise our most expensive matchday ticket was £52 or that a pie was £4.

 

Some of the other clubs pricing needs more background than a simple spreadsheet. How many season tickets do Man City make available for £299? The same with Newcastle's £15 match ticket. Presumably these are in the family stand?

The irony is that the most expensive areas of our ground (not including corporate) are the best selling bits, half-way line always fully sold out. The cheapest bits (the corners) are the bits of the ground that never seem to sell out.

 

We'll get a bigger crowd for Man City at home at Cat A prices, than we will for Stoke at home cheap deal.

[Super_Uwe]

Same old, same old...they wheeled out Malcolm Clarke again today on the BBC Breakfast to give his annual message along the lines of "it's a disgrace"...

 

IMO until clubs see a 30-40% drop in matchday revenues, they will just crack on as they are. Why would they bother changing?

[Bearsy]

I paid £16 recently to watch a local team play in the Vanarama Conference North. You can prob get Bayern Munich season ticket for that! Or whatever.

[JN9]

The issue isn't with ticket prices, the issue is with identifying talent earlier in a players life cycle, and being able to pay less for them and pay less wages. See Lallana and Tadic as a good example.

 

People always compare us to Germany, but their wages are significantly lower than their equivalent in the the EPL.

 

Just come back from a trip to Germany and took in a St Pauli game. Its fair to say that they're getting a much better matchday experience for a much better price. I think you make a good point about the wages though...

 

At the end of the day it is up to the supporters. Do you want to have a succesful club? Then stump up your £36. Or would you like a cheaper tickets to go and support your club (representing your city) no matter what level they're playing at? Unfortunatly then the supporters would have to force the change (ie, no fans turning up to games)

 

I know which I'd choose, sadly I am very much in the minority and nothing will change, ticket prices will continue to rise, but on the plus side I may one day see Saints play in Europe...

[View From The Top]

When I asked the club why tickets for 12yo kids were so expensive compared to WBA & Stoke, my closest BPL teams, their answer was because the cost of living was cheaper in the north!

 

The club is pricing families out as many on here will attest to.

[The Cat]

I paid £16 recently to watch a local team play in the Vanarama Conference North. You can prob get Bayern Munich season ticket for that! Or whatever.

 

One of the reasons I've been watching Eastleigh a bit this season is because their prices are pretty low cosidering they are in the Conference now. £12 for adults, £4 for kids and under 7's free. Thought about going to Aldershot a few weeks ago but it was £17. That's only £3 less than Pompey although comes with less chance of catching a disease.

[Sour Mash]

When I asked the club why tickets for 12yo kids were so expensive compared to WBA & Stoke, my closest BPL teams, their answer was because the cost of living was cheaper in the north!

 

The club is pricing families out as many on here will attest to.

That's one thing Saints have definitely got wrong. Pricing of tickets for 12-18 is unnecessarily restrictive. Why don't we drop the prices for these tickets for games like Stoke at home at least to fill up the empty seats?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Just come back from a trip to Germany and took in a St Pauli game. Its fair to say that they're getting a much better matchday experience for a much better price. I think you make a good point about the wages though...

 

At the end of the day it is up to the supporters. Do you want to have a succesful club? Then stump up your £36. Or would you like a cheaper tickets to go and support your club (representing your city) no matter what level they're playing at? Unfortunatly then the supporters would have to force the change (ie, no fans turning up to games)

 

I know which I'd choose, sadly I am very much in the minority and nothing will change, ticket prices will continue to rise, but on the plus side I may one day see Saints play in Europe...

 

Are St Pauli still in the 1st division (as opposed to the Bundesliga)? Went a few years ago, had a great time.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

When I asked the club why tickets for 12yo kids were so expensive compared to WBA & Stoke, my closest BPL teams, their answer was because the cost of living was cheaper in the north!

 

The club is pricing families out as many on here will attest to.

 

To be fair, they aren't wrong. Plus the areas are poorer.

[redkeith]

The PL missed some great PR with the new TV deal. They had a great opportunity to say to the clubs "Here is a shed load of extra TV money, on the condition that you freeze tickets prices for a few years". The clubs would hardly notice the difference, with all the container loads of cash coming in from Asian TV.

 

I'm off to see Bordeaux play Caen on Sunday. As it is on TV Bordeaux were offering buy one get one free, so it is €14.00 for the pair of us to sit behind a goal . That's £5.50 each, which will buy me 15 minutes worth of Saints V Everton in December. I know the standard may not be as high as the PL but it is not 6 times better.

[whelk]

The stronger the PL brand the higher the demand. And demand will always drive prices. It is the inelasticity that is key as will pay price whatever it goes to.

My demand will not move to Eastleigh even if it was £1 to get in as only Saints will satisfy me and the bastrds know that.

 

Wishful thinking that there are philanthropic owners who say ahhh we don't need the additional £4m esp as now more vital to FFP regs. Equates to f all really for big teams- afternoon's interest for Mansour and Abramovich

[The Cat]

That's one thing Saints have definitely got wrong. Pricing of tickets for 12-18 is unnecessarily restrictive. Why don't we drop the prices for these tickets for games like Stoke at home at least to fill up the empty seats?

 

There was an offer for Stoke where ST holders could buy 2 extra tickets at £10 off each in the Chapel. That relies on people knowing a ST holder who can get their tickets rather than making it easy and allowing them to go to the ticket office themselves.

[Sour Mash]

There was an offer for Stoke where ST holders could buy 2 extra tickets at £10 off each in the Chapel. That relies on people knowing a ST holder who can get their tickets rather than making it easy and allowing them to go to the ticket office themselves.

That wasn't a bad offer to be fair, doesn't look like too many have taken the club up on it.

 

But generally, for WBA, Stoke, Burnley at home, why not have it listed from the start of teh season, these games will be cheap tickets for 12-18 year olds?

[ThorpG]

Our prices aren't really higher than other Prem clubs. Everything is expensive these days - test match cricket, gigs, music festivals, a couple of pints, it's all a bit of a rip off, but its basic supply and demand.

 

I understand basic supply and demand, my point is that is the demand isn't necessarily there at these prices, hence the lack of sell outs and the low commercial income. Would a drop in programmes prices, food, shirts stimulate getter demand and higher overall revenue? It was identified by the club that our commercial revenue was far too low for a Premier League club and lower than some Championship clubs - I would think that over-pricing would be a factor in this (why would Saints have the most expensive programme in the Premier League for example).

[ThorpG]

Mods - could you change the title please, iPAD mishap - should read 'Price of Football'... Thanks.

[Sour Mash]

The PL missed some great PR with the new TV deal. They had a great opportunity to say to the clubs "Here is a shed load of extra TV money, on the condition that you freeze tickets prices for a few years". The clubs would hardly notice the difference, with all the container loads of cash coming in from Asian TV.

 

I'm off to see Bordeaux play Caen on Sunday. As it is on TV Bordeaux were offering buy one get one free, so it is €14.00 for the pair of us to sit behind a goal . That's £5.50 each, which will buy me 15 minutes worth of Saints V Everton in December. I know the standard may not be as high as the PL but it is not 6 times better.

But the Premier League clubs aren't just competing with each other - they're competing with clubs throughout Europe for players and in comps, if they give up money, they give up part of that competitive edge. Look at the players we were able to recruit from clubs across Europe.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

The PL missed some great PR with the new TV deal. They had a great opportunity to say to the clubs "Here is a shed load of extra TV money, on the condition that you freeze tickets prices for a few years". The clubs would hardly notice the difference, with all the container loads of cash coming in from Asian TV.

 

I'm off to see Bordeaux play Caen on Sunday. As it is on TV Bordeaux were offering buy one get one free, so it is €14.00 for the pair of us to sit behind a goal . That's £5.50 each, which will buy me 15 minutes worth of Saints V Everton in December. I know the standard may not be as high as the PL but it is not 6 times better.

 

Wages might well be though.

 

Unfortunately saying something isn't x times better than something else doesn't make any sense as standards costs rise exponentially for an small increase in quality. For instance Bale isn't 20 times better than Lambert.

[View From The Top]

To be fair, they aren't wrong. Plus the areas are poorer.

 

Soton is hardly a wealthy city!

 

Baggies and Stoke are well aware of future fans, something our club appears oblivious to.