Redslo Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 This will run and run as all parties are right here. He isn't worth 12.5m - he was only worth 6m six month previous and hardly set the world alight. That said he falls into an ever increasing bucket of madness/desperate buys that the wads of sky cash have driven. So he compares favourably to a load of other misfits (inc Osvaldo, Ramirez for us) but we did pay well over the odds. He also has had a positive impact on our squad / results so is of value, and when you are going into a season with 60m in your pocket and a few days left to get another striker in, it could have been much worse. His value won't go up however - if we sold now we would be lucky to get 8, but we don't need to sell as he is a great squad player who we should keep around for his contract (unless we go down, in which case his 50k a week would need to be off the books) No fair. You have to take a side.
View From The Top Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Spent most of yesterday with plenty of Hull ST holders and to a man they said how much they missed him in their set up.
Goatboy Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Clever response. We are lucky others are better in front of goal, meaning the team hasn't been too adversely affected by a £12m striker having only scored in one league game by Christmas! Hopefully he nets tomorrow. Very gracious of you. I meant to put a but I'm sure you realised that.
St Marco Posted 27 December, 2014 Author Posted 27 December, 2014 Can't be arsed to get into an argument but thought I would throw out a statistic that is pretty interesting. Long has had 19 dribbles at other players and has succeeded just twice, that is an 89% failure rating in regards to running at people. http://www.squawka.com/players/shane-long/stats#avg.-duels-won#southampton-(current)#english-barclays-premier-league#8#season-2014/2015#126#all-matches#1-18#type In contrast Mane has won 53% of his. I am not slating the guy just pointing out he isn't known for taking on players as some have mentioned above.
Goatboy Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Can't be arsed to get into an argument but thought I would throw out a statistic that is pretty interesting. Long has had 19 dribbles at other players and has succeeded just twice, that is an 89% failure rating in regards to running at people. http://www.squawka.com/players/shane-long/stats#avg.-duels-won#southampton-(current)#english-barclays-premier-league#8#season-2014/2015#126#all-matches#1-18#type In contrast Mane has won 53% of his. I am not slating the guy just pointing out he isn't known for taking on players as some have mentioned above. Succeeded in what? Going round someone? How many freekicks you win? Goals per players rounded? Go and watch Shane Long play and you will see that statistics will never be a decent barometer of his worth to the team. How do you measure the influence a player has on style or tempo? The influence they have on the performance of their team mates? Their attitude in the dressing room? How they integrate into a group? You can pick holes in even the best players with statistics.
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 He often goes past the player but never reaches the ball again. Great example against Everton where he had Distin one vs one, knocked it past him but hit it way too far in front and Jagielka came across to clear for a throw when Long with a reasonable touch would have had a shot on goal. Agree you can find damning stats on any player but also any good player has some key stats in his favour. Does Long?
Goatboy Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 He often goes past the player but never reaches the ball again. Great example against Everton where he had Distin one vs one, knocked it past him but hit it way too far in front and Jagielka came across to clear for a throw when Long with a reasonable touch would have had a shot on goal. Agree you can find damning stats on any player but also any good player has some key stats in his favour. Does Long? League position POS P W D L GD PTS 4 18 10 2 6 17 32
Turkish Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 He often goes past the player but never reaches the ball again. Great example against Everton where he had Distin one vs one, knocked it past him but hit it way too far in front and Jagielka came across to clear for a throw when Long with a reasonable touch would have had a shot on goal. Agree you can find damning stats on any player but also any good player has some key stats in his favour. Does Long? He's never been on the losing side for us when he's scored. In fact we've won 100% of our games when he's scored.
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 He's never been on the losing side for us when he's scored. In fact we've won 100% of our games when he's scored. Can't beat that, he is something of a lucky charm for us. What a coup to get him!
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 League position POSPWDLGDPTS 41810261732 Same applies to Mane who has been slated on here. Also to Mayuka. Just because a team is superb it doesn't mean all the individuals are.
Goatboy Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Same applies to Mane who has been slated on here. Also to Mayuka. Just because a team is superb it doesn't mean all the individuals are. Individual's points don't count come May.
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Individual's points don't count come May. They never count. They don't get given points. But they score goals and make assists. Hopefully Long will at some stage because attackers that do neither are usually not brilliant.
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Who are you calling a count? Hard to make a proper argument I guess.
Whitey Grandad Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 He's a member of the team. He makes space for others and disrupts their formation. Success is not all down to one player.
Goatboy Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Hard to make a proper argument I guess. Lol! Quick editing SC! There was me thinking we were being all friendly and playful! But no! If you want a proper argument we ought to take it to where it belongs. See you in TMS.
St Marco Posted 27 December, 2014 Author Posted 27 December, 2014 Succeeded in what? Going round someone? How many freekicks you win? Goals per players rounded? Go and watch Shane Long play and you will see that statistics will never be a decent barometer of his worth to the team. How do you measure the influence a player has on style or tempo? The influence they have on the performance of their team mates? Their attitude in the dressing room? How they integrate into a group? You can pick holes in even the best players with statistics. Woah calm down there friend. Firstly I was at yesterdays game and go to most away games. Don't do the whole "go watch him play" thing because that is stupid. Like I said I was not slating him just pointing out a statistic. If you read it you will see it says 'Taking players on'. I guess that means having the ball at your feet and running at someone with it? Could be wrong but to me that is what I consider taking someone on. So he might well be most of those things you mention, but he isn't someone who has the ability to go past players with the ball and keep it under control. He doesn't have the quickness of feet that others have ala Mane. Long has done alright for us, did great vs Everton. But whoever was in that position would be expected to do as well or better. Question is when players return i.e Jay will what Long has to offer suffice or will he fall further down the starting pecking order?
Goatboy Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Woah calm down there friend. Firstly I was at yesterdays game and go to most away games. Don't do the whole "go watch him play" thing because that is stupid. Like I said I was not slating him just pointing out a statistic. If you read it you will see it says 'Taking players on'. I guess that means having the ball at your feet and running at someone with it? Could be wrong but to me that is what I consider taking someone on. So he might well be most of those things you mention, but he isn't someone who has the ability to go past players with the ball and keep it under control. He doesn't have the quickness of feet that others have ala Mane. Long has done alright for us, did great vs Everton. But whoever was in that position would be expected to do as well or better. Question is when players return i.e Jay will what Long has to offer suffice or will he fall further down the starting pecking order? Sorry SM! None of that was meant to be having a go at you. Just a general rant on people on this forum seeing stats as the whole truth. I should have just posted as opposed to hitting reply.
Turkish Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 He's a member of the team. He makes space for others and disrupts their formation. Success is not all down to one player. "You need roadsweepers and violinists"
shurlock Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 He's a member of the team. He makes space for others and disrupts their formation. Success is not all down to one player. Now if you could be as magnanimous and philosophical with the likes of Mané
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Lol! Quick editing SC! There was me thinking we were being all friendly and playful! But no! If you want a proper argument we ought to take it to where it belongs. See you in TMS. No hard feeling pal. Truth be told I'm not really that bothered by Long. Just looking for an argument so thanks for taking part. Hopefully he hassles Terry into conceding some corners tomorrow that our goalscorers can benefit from! If he can better his 40% pass completion from the end of the Palace game then he will have earned his corn IMO.
Goatboy Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 No hard feeling pal. Truth be told I'm not really that bothered by Long. Just looking for an argument so thanks for taking part. Hopefully he hassles Terry into conceding some corners tomorrow that our goalscorers can benefit from! If he can better his 40% pass completion from the end of the Palace game then he will have earned his corn IMO. This is my favourite post ever.
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 This is my favourite post ever. Good, but can you reply properly!
shurlock Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 No hard feeling pal. Truth be told I'm not really that bothered by Long. Just looking for an argument so thanks for taking part. Hopefully he hassles Terry into conceding some corners tomorrow that our goalscorers can benefit from! If he can better his 40% pass completion from the end of the Palace game then he will have earned his corn IMO. Can't beat a hurried hoof into row zz as Longy comes charging in like a man possessed. Top it off with him spitting nonchalantly and staring defiantly at the Northam, and that's seal-flapping gold. Remember not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.
Whitey Grandad Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Now if you could be as magnanimous and philosophical with the likes of Mané I am certainly prepared to give home some time to demonstrate what he is capable of, but I question his technique in striking the ball. It may well turn out that the other aspects of his game will more than compensate for this, but up until yesterday it appeared to me that his presence seemed to disrupt the team rather than complement it.
Goatboy Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 SC: A typo followed by a Turkishism. An exclamation of the futility of discourse. A context laden, faux convivial riddle, heavy with bluster and light in punctuation. Creamed with stunning, useless post modern statistics and added yoof. That's my first go. I'll work on it. Sometimes you look at something and just think: " That's great that is." You may not know why, but the longer you look at it, the more reasons you can find.
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 SC: A typo followed by a Turkishism. An exclamation of the futility of discourse. A context laden, faux convivial riddle, heavy with bluster and light in punctuation. Creamed with stunning, useless post modern statistics and added yoof. That's my first go. I'll work on it. Sometimes you look at something and just think: " That's great that is." You may not know why, but the longer you look at it, the more reasons you can find. The Long chat was better!
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Anyone want to start a Fonte thread? His form has dipped recently.
Goatboy Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Anyone want to start a Fonte thread? His form has dipped recently. Surely he has been missing for a game so he has become considerably better/our saviour?
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Surely he has been missing for a game so he has become considerably better/our saviour? Missed it through a stupidly rash tackle, obviously didn't learn from the let off he had from the brainless Aguero one. But generally good 76% of the time. Although he does have even fewer goals than Longy.
Goatboy Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Do you rate your other half in this way SC?
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Do you rate your other half in this way SC? He wouldn't want me to reply to that.
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 I'll ask him myself. Go on then. @ShaneLong7
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 You are doing Long? No, you can ask Long if he agrees with the themes of this thread.
Turkish Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 No, you can ask Long if he agrees with the themes of this thread. He's already said this week a lot of people don't know what they're talking about, so I guess the answer to that is no.
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 He's already said this week a lot of people don't know what they're talking about, so I guess the answer to that is no. Haha quite right. Although that was on the team rather than himself. Im sure next time they speak to him Peach or Blackmore will ask Long to react to Mboard claims he is ****e and will ask if he is happy with scoring in one of 18 league games so far. I'm almost certain they will.
Goatboy Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Haha quite right. Although that was on the team rather than himself. Im sure next time they speak to him Peach or Blackmore will ask Long to react to Mboard claims he is ****e and will ask if he is happy with scoring in one of 18 league games so far. I'm almost certain they will. Blackmore is asking the wrong questions. I want to know if it's SC or SL that are the top or bottom.
Turkish Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 Haha quite right. Although that was on the team rather than himself. Im sure next time they speak to him Peach or Blackmore will ask Long to react to Mboard claims he is ****e and will ask if he is happy with scoring in one of 18 league games so far. I'm almost certain they will. They might ask him how he feels being compared to Ian Rush, in that when he scores his team never loses.
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 They might ask him how he feels being compared to Ian Rush, in that when he scores his team never loses. We both know they will ask, "Shane, thoughts on the [insert next opponent] game? I imagine you will be trying to win?"
SarniaSaint Posted 27 December, 2014 Posted 27 December, 2014 I would start with Long tomorrow, and give Pelle a break with a place on the bench. Long is the kind of forward Terry & Cahill will not like as he runs the channels and takes defenders back towards their own goal. Pelle is likely to be exactly the type Cahill & Terry love to play against - one that does a lot with his back to goal trying to bring others into play. Cahill & Terry will just clamber all over him and the ref will give him little or no protection. That's what I would do........now if only we had someone to take a penalty
Saint Charlie Posted 4 January, 2015 Posted 4 January, 2015 How did people think Shane did today? I thought lots of effort but a very poor touch. Happiest when chasing the ball rather than having it and often sticks out as being technically inferior in our team. 100% effort and some good hassling though. Also tends to draw fouls well.
Whitey Grandad Posted 4 January, 2015 Posted 4 January, 2015 How did people think Shane did today? I thought lots of effort but a very poor touch. Happiest when chasing the ball rather than having it and often sticks out as being technically inferior in our team. 100% effort and some good hassling though. Also tends to draw fouls well. Should have had a penalty or two. I was in my usual seat but the annoying know-all on my left had it in for Long from the start. I had to remind him that Long was only doing what he was supposed to do.
Saint Charlie Posted 4 January, 2015 Posted 4 January, 2015 Should have had a penalty or two. I was in my usual seat but the annoying know-all on my left had it in for Long from the start. I had to remind him that Long was only doing what he was supposed to do. I thought the foul near the end might have been inside the box too from where I was sat. He does do well with runs like that but never looks a goal threat.
SaintSteve Posted 4 January, 2015 Posted 4 January, 2015 How did people think Shane did today? I thought lots of effort but a very poor touch. Happiest when chasing the ball rather than having it and often sticks out as being technically inferior in our team. 100% effort and some good hassling though. Also tends to draw fouls well. For all the runs down the channel he does... he's simply not good enough to start games for us. Ball control is woeful which results in him losing the ball at critical times in our attacking moves. I would think Elia will start before him in our next few games as Koeman must get frustrated with him. No penalties today, just strong challenges from a typical McCarthy side.
Saint Garrett Posted 4 January, 2015 Posted 4 January, 2015 Tbf if he gives the free kick, then he should have given a pen, was well inside the box.
Whitey Grandad Posted 4 January, 2015 Posted 4 January, 2015 Tbf if he gives the free kick, then he should have given a pen, was well inside the box. Started inside, finished outside. The ref was going to give nothing until the assistant flagged so the result was a compromise decision to give a foul outside the box. The assistant didn't signal for a penalty so who knows how they came to their decision.
Leicestersaint Posted 4 January, 2015 Posted 4 January, 2015 I like Shane Long's attitude but he does not score enough goals.
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