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Posted (edited)

After 6 games, the like-for-like comparison, looks like this....

 

 

[TABLE=class: grid, width: 420]

[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=colspan: 2, align: center]Results

[/TD]

[TD=colspan: 2, align: center]Points[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Fixture

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2014[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2015[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2014[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2015[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Liverpool V Saints[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Saints v West Brom[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]West Ham v Saints[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1-3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Saints v Newcastle[/TD]

[TD=align: right]4-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]4-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Swansea v Saints[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Saints v (Cardiff/QPR)*[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Total

[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]12[/TD]

[TD=align: right]13[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

*Cardiff beaing the weakest in the prem last year and QPR being the weakest of promoted sides

 

Goal Difference 2014 = +4

Goal Difference 2015 = +7

 

Outcome = Koeman improvement

Edited by St Chalet
Corrected
Posted

In the short time that RK has been here I have warmed to him far more than I ever warmed to MP. MP clearly did a good job but the surly looks, constant whining about decisions and talking in Spanish in interviews did nothing to win me over. RK on the other hand smiles a lot, seems very honest and straightforward and doesn't hide behind a language barrier. The football ain't bad either! Long may he reign.

Posted
After 6 games, the like-for-like comparison, looks like this....

 

 

[TABLE=class: grid, width: 420]

[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=colspan: 2, align: center]Results

[/TD]

[TD=colspan: 2, align: center]Points[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Fixture

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2014[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2015[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2014[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2015[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Liverpool V Saints[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Saints v West Brom[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]West Ham v Saints[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Saints v Newcastle[/TD]

[TD=align: right]4-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]4-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Swansea v Saints[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Saints v (Cardiff/QPR)*[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Total

[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]12[/TD]

[TD=align: right]13[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

*Cardiff beaing the weakest in the prem last year and QPR being the weakest of promoted sides

 

Goal Difference 2014 = +4

Goal Difference 2015 = +7

 

Outcome = Koeman improvement

 

We lost 3-1 to west ham last season, and won 3-1 this season. Get it right ffs.

Posted (edited)

Fair comments about the table. Thanks St Chalet for correcting.

 

I did the table because a few people have commented that although we've had a great start, it is only 6 games. I wondered how this year compared against last year.

 

I was pleasantly surprised as it shows like-for-like that we are doing better under Koeman.

 

An incredible achievement if you consider what happened in the summer....

Edited by Johnny Bognor
Posted

Problem with these comparisons is that they do not take into account how the opposition has changed over the summer. So really, while it might be interesting, it is a little meaningless.

Posted

I think what the chart shows a few things.

 

1) Despite the dire summer predictions, we are as good, if not better, than we were last year.

2) We have had the fortune of playing weaker teams to start off our season.

3) We won't know what exactly we have with this team until we have played all 19 teams.

4) And screw all the analysis, handwringing and caution of points #2 and #3. It is glorious being a Saints fan right now.

Posted
I think what the chart shows a few things.

 

1) Despite the dire summer predictions, we are as good, if not better, than we were last year.

2) We have had the fortune of playing weaker teams to start off our season.

3) We won't know what exactly we have with this team until we have played all 19 teams.

4) And screw all the analysis, handwringing and caution of points #2 and #3. It is glorious being a Saints fan right now.

 

4 +1

Posted
I am looking at the corresponding fixtures from last season, compared to this season to see how we fare...

 

Different games. Same clubs but different teams and different circumstances. You can't draw any inferences from the results, but you can enjoy being a Saints fan at the moment.

Posted (edited)
After 6 games, the like-for-like comparison, looks like this....

 

 

[TABLE=class: grid, width: 420]

[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=colspan: 2, align: center]Results

[/TD]

[TD=colspan: 2, align: center]Points[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Fixture

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2014[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2015[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2014[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2015[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Liverpool V Saints[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Saints v West Brom[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]West Ham v Saints[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1-3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Saints v Newcastle[/TD]

[TD=align: right]4-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]4-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Swansea v Saints[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Saints v (Fulham/QPR)*[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Total

[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]15[/TD]

[TD=align: right]13[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

*Fulham beaing the second weakest in the prem last year and QPR being the second weakest of promoted sides (based on current table)

 

Goal Difference 2014 = +7

Goal Difference 2015 = +7

 

Outcome = Koeman regression

 

Corrected for you.

 

Koeman out! ;)

Edited by Dark Munster
Posted
Problem with these comparisons is that they do not take into account how the opposition has changed over the summer. So really, while it might be interesting, it is a little meaningless.

 

Fun crusher.

Posted
I think what the chart shows a few things.

 

1) Despite the dire summer predictions, we are as good, if not better, than we were last year.

2) We have had the fortune of playing weaker teams to start off our season.

3) We won't know what exactly we have with this team until we have played all 19 teams.

4) And screw all the analysis, handwringing and caution of points #2 and #3. It is glorious being a Saints fan right now.

 

1) Agree

2) Disagree, with explanation below.

3) Partially disagree. We already know plenty, but not enough to know where we will finish. But relegation, for example, seems virtually inconceivable.

4) Agree, except that I like analysis and a little bit of caution. Will skip the handwringing though.

 

Last year we had 11 points after six games. Our opponents earned 29 points in the games that were not against us.

This year we have 13 points and our opponents, before today's game, earned 35 points in games against others.

 

So we have played better against a somewhat tougher schedule. A schedule of average opponents would have earned 38 points this year so our schedule has been slightly easy, but if Newcastle wins today, it will have been average.

Posted
Different games. Same clubs but different teams and different circumstances. You can't draw any inferences from the results, but you can enjoy being a Saints fan at the moment.

 

Wrong, you can draw some inferences. To say you can't draw any is a very strong statement indeed.

Posted
Problem with these comparisons is that they do not take into account how the opposition has changed over the summer. So really, while it might be interesting, it is a little meaningless.

 

It might be hard to ascertain your absolute progress but as the prem is the same teams (barring the three promoted teams) you can measure your relevative progress and as football is judge over a season your relative progress is the important one. So it's far from being meaningless.

Posted
Problem with these comparisons is that they do not take into account how the opposition has changed over the summer. So really, while it might be interesting, it is a little meaningless.

 

I've seen other posts criticising comparisons to last seasons first 5/6 games as they were against different teams. What stats should we use to compare this seasons performance to last? Should we not make comparisons before May 2015?

 

IMHO Koeman is a step up. We've had a better start to the season and the stats above indicate we have had better results against corresponding teams last year. Along with that we seem to have a better "plan b" this season.

 

I understand that it is too early to make comparisons on the MP/RK transfer activities, but could someone be kind enough to draw a quick draught. I suspect RK would trump MP in the transfers in column.

Posted
Ok then, ...any meaningful inferences...

 

(I thought I was the senior pedant on here ;))

 

I wasn't really being pedantic in what I said Whitey (ok, I was a bit). I disagree with you that there's nothing meaningful in the comparison. Any comparison you ever make isn't going to be perfect. Any comparison is either going to be to a different point in time, or to different situation at the same time, all you can do is control for the "variables" as best you can.

 

People are happy enough to look at form guides as an indication of 'something', even though each team themselves played different teams. Heck even the league table at the end of the season could be criticised as, for example, Crystal Palace at the end of last season were a very different proposition than Palace at the start of the season, or playing Spurs the weekend after a Euro game is different from playing them with a week's rest. Yet still the league table is taken as meaning 'something' in terms of how teams have performed over the period.

 

To me the comparison that has been made in the OP is as good as any I can think of to compare the records between Poch and Big Ron. The results are against the same teams, in the same stadiums. Sure, personnel have changed (both for us and the opposition) but it works both ways - some teams have gotten stronger (West Ham?), some weaker (Newcastle?), but it's not an inherently unfair way of looking at it. Finally, 6 games feels like a decent enough sample size to make such comparisons.

 

Feel free to point out any flaws in the comparison and how important you feel they are, by all means even suggest improvements, but it's disingenuous to say that that there is nothing meaningful to be taken from the two sets of results presented. It's a fair way of looking at it and suggests RoKo has the better record over the results shown. It doesn't necessarily make him the better manager, but does provide a decent jumping off point for a discussion.

Posted
I've seen other posts criticising comparisons to last seasons first 5/6 games as they were against different teams. What stats should we use to compare this seasons performance to last? Should we not make comparisons before May 2015?

 

Last year we had 11 points after six games. Our opponents earned 29 points in the games that were not against us.

This year we have 13 points and our opponents earned 35 points in games against others.

 

So we have played slightly better against a somewhat tougher schedule. A schedule of average opponents would have earned just over 38 points this year so our schedule has been slightly easier than average, but still tougher than last year.

Posted
I wasn't really being pedantic in what I said Whitey (ok, I was a bit). I disagree with you that there's nothing meaningful in the comparison. Any comparison you ever make isn't going to be perfect. Any comparison is either going to be to a different point in time, or to different situation at the same time, all you can do is control for the "variables" as best you can.

 

People are happy enough to look at form guides as an indication of 'something', even though each team themselves played different teams. Heck even the league table at the end of the season could be criticised as, for example, Crystal Palace at the end of last season were a very different proposition than Palace at the start of the season, or playing Spurs the weekend after a Euro game is different from playing them with a week's rest. Yet still the league table is taken as meaning 'something' in terms of how teams have performed over the period.

 

To me the comparison that has been made in the OP is as good as any I can think of to compare the records between Poch and Big Ron. The results are against the same teams, in the same stadiums. Sure, personnel have changed (both for us and the opposition) but it works both ways - some teams have gotten stronger (West Ham?), some weaker (Newcastle?), but it's not an inherently unfair way of looking at it. Finally, 6 games feels like a decent enough sample size to make such comparisons.

 

Feel free to point out any flaws in the comparison and how important you feel they are, by all means even suggest improvements, but it's disingenuous to say that that there is nothing meaningful to be taken from the two sets of results presented. It's a fair way of looking at it and suggests RoKo has the better record over the results shown. It doesn't necessarily make him the better manager, but does provide a decent jumping off point for a discussion.

 

I appreciate what you're saying, but there is a danger that we can over-analyse things. In my opinion six games are too few to be significant (in the statistical sense). In games won by an odd goal you only need a couple of instances of hitting the woodwork instead of scoring or a penalty not given and you're looking at a swing of a few points.

Posted
Did Koeman and Pochettino ever play against each other?

 

Koeman played for Barca 1989 to 1995 and Pochettino played for Espanyol 1994 - 2000.

 

So they both played in la liga 1994 and 1995 so I imagine that they did play each other.

Posted
I've seen other posts criticising comparisons to last seasons first 5/6 games as they were against different teams. What stats should we use to compare this seasons performance to last? Should we not make comparisons before May 2015?

 

IMHO Koeman is a step up. We've had a better start to the season and the stats above indicate we have had better results against corresponding teams last year. Along with that we seem to have a better "plan b" this season.

 

I understand that it is too early to make comparisons on the MP/RK transfer activities, but could someone be kind enough to draw a quick draught. I suspect RK would trump MP in the transfers in column.

 

You can take all sorts of statistics and get an answer that suits your argument. Personally, I would take some stats from this year and last year and find the rank correlation coefficient.

Posted
In the short time that RK has been here I have warmed to him far more than I ever warmed to MP. MP clearly did a good job but the surly looks, constant whining about decisions and talking in Spanish in interviews did nothing to win me over. RK on the other hand smiles a lot, seems very honest and straightforward and doesn't hide behind a language barrier. The football ain't bad either! Long may he reign.

 

Very much this!

  • 4 weeks later...
Posted

[TABLE=class: grid, width: 585]

[TR]

[TD]Like for Like

[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=colspan: 4, align: center]2014

[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=colspan: 4, align: center]2015

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Fixture

[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]Score

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]Result[/TD]

[TD=align: right]Points[/TD]

[TD=align: right]GD[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right]Score[/TD]

[TD=align: right]Result[/TD]

[TD=align: right]Points[/TD]

[TD=align: right]GD[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Liverpool V Saints[/TD]

[TD]A[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]W[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]+1[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right]2-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]L[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]-1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Saints v West Brom

[/TD]

[TD]H[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]1-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]W[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]+1[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]D[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]West Ham v Saints

[/TD]

[TD]A[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]3-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]L[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]-2[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right]1-3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]W[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]+2

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Saints v Newcastle

[/TD]

[TD]H[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]4-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]W[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]+4[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right]4-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]W[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]+4

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Swansea v Saints

[/TD]

[TD]A[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]W[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]+1[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]W[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]+1

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Saints v (Cardiff/QPR)*[/TD]

[TD]H[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]L[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right]2-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]W[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]+1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Tottenham[/TD]

[TD]A[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]3-2[/TD]

[TD=align: right]L[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right]1-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]L[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]-1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Sunderland[/TD]

[TD]H[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]1-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]D[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right]8-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]W[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]+8[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Stoke City[/TD]

[TD]H[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]2-2[/TD]

[TD=align: right]D[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right]TBC[/TD]

[TD=align: right]TBC[/TD]

[TD=align: right]TBC[/TD]

[TD=align: right]TBC

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Total

[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right]14[/TD]

[TD=align: right]+3[/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[TD=align: right]16[/TD]

[TD=align: right]+14[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Posted
Poch was an arrogant *****, Koeman Is a decent chap.

 

Agree. A difference between respecting and genuinely warming to someone.

 

Although he shows emotion in the bedroom!

Posted
After 6 games, the like-for-like comparison, looks like this....

 

 

[TABLE=class: grid, width: 420]

[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=colspan: 2, align: center]Results

[/TD]

[TD=colspan: 2, align: center]Points[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Fixture

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2014[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2015[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2014[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2015[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Liverpool V Saints[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Saints v West Brom[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]West Ham v Saints[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1-3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Saints v Newcastle[/TD]

[TD=align: right]4-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]4-0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Swansea v Saints[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Saints v (Cardiff/QPR)*[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2-1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Total

[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]12[/TD]

[TD=align: right]13[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

*Cardiff beaing the weakest in the prem last year and QPR being the weakest of promoted sides

 

Goal Difference 2014 = +4

Goal Difference 2015 = +7

 

Outcome = Koeman improvement

 

As mentioned, tapatalk just shows the raw HTML table, so the message is kinda lost.

Posted
Am I missing something here, I thought "nice goal", but I don't quite get the ridiculous love-in!?

 

These days SSN quickly claim best goal ever scored status. I'm with you and incredible technique but didn't make me say wow like Kasami's last season.

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