SAINTS keen on stadium expansion

[Saint Pete]

Having to pass over the very crowded footbridge, the 20 minute walk.

 

And you don't think it will be crowded if they put a station right alongside the stadium?

 

Personally, I think we're lucky to have a stadium so close to city centre, unlike say Brighton where they have to crowd onto trains/buses from the centre.

[FloridaMarlin]

That's only part of it.

 

I know loads of people who went who never go to a Saints game usually. They went as it was a "big day out" for them and/or for their families. There are an awful lot of people who don't go to many Saints matches and WILL pick and choose due to cost, online streaming, family reasons, work reasons, having other life activities reasons.

 

I genuinely think we don't live in a big enough catchment or city to warrant expanding for some time, until we start winning stuff then all the new fans will emerge.

 

It doesn't help that the population of half our catchment area are fish - and I don't mean skates.

 

Draw a 25-mile circle centred on St Mary's and a fairly large chunk of that is sea.

 

The upside of that is that it's part of the reason we get special dispensation when it comes to recruitment areas for our academy.

[stevegrant]

The upside of that is that it's part of the reason we get special dispensation when it comes to recruitment areas for our academy.

I thought the 90-minute rule had been removed with the new EPPP academy category system, and that as a Category 1 academy, we could recruit from wherever we like?

[Sour Mash]

Particularly in the rain

 

Is £15M what it would cost to put in a platform alongside the stadium? What is it platinum plated?

£15m is probably a conservative estimate, resignalling of the area, construction of platforms for up and down lines, appropriate access. Its never going to happen. Edited 18 September, 2014 by Sour Mash

[Sour Mash]

I don't think it's a case of people who go and people who don't. Don't forget 55,000 Saints fans drove to London to watch a game against League 1 Carlise. The numbers are obviously there but people just don't make the effort to go to every game. Most likely because of the cost.

 

I would quite happily see the club spend a couple of million less in the transfer window and use that money to give it a trial run for a season. Standing spaces in the Northam, £15 each all ages.

The cost for 11-18 year olds needs to be looked at, the costs for other fans is comparable to the rest of the Premier League.

 

Loads of clubs can take 40K+ to Wembley, Millwall and Luton are two examples, it doesn't mean they should look at expansion.

 

Leverkusen at home was £10-12 but we half filled the ground.

[100%Red&White]

Couldn't they build a platform to the North of the stadium? Somewhere in the region of where the white buildings are now...they could then build concession areas and temp pubs and everything for the discerning rail traveller..

 

 

Is there room there? I think that's Siemans Railworks and why sometimes there's train stopped right outside the stadium.

 

A station halt has been suggested a few times but it's hard to justify the expense of something that would only be used every other week for 9 months of the year. Possibly the best bet is further down the line towards the old Terminus once the proposed riverside/Ocean Village developments take place, depending what finally goes there - the 'Snow Dome' bit the dust some time ago.

[Saint_clark]

The cost for 11-18 year olds needs to be looked at, the costs for other fans is comparable to the rest of the Premier League.

 

Loads of clubs can take 40K+ to Wembley, Millwall and Luton are two examples, it doesn't mean they should look at expansion.

 

Leverkusen at home was £10-12 but we half filled the ground.

 

Oh come on, they could of let people in for free and we still wouldn't fill the ground for a friendly. £10-£15 every prem game would see a total sell out, probably including away fans.

[Sour Mash]

Oh come on, they could of let people in for free and we still wouldn't fill the ground for a friendly. £10-£15 every prem game would see a total sell out, probably including away fans.

Ok, look at our League One crowds, didn''t sell out too many of them at cheap prices.

 

At the end of the day, at normal Premier League prices, we don't need a bigger grond, we don't sell out our current one. 32,000 is about right for us, that isn't going to change any time soon.

[Matthew Le God]

Leverkusen at home was £10-12 but we half filled the ground.

 

Are you suggesting 17,690 for a non-competitive game is poor?

 

Oh come on, they could of let people in for free and we still wouldn't fill the ground for a friendly. £10-£15 every prem game would see a total sell out, probably including away fans.

 

Ok, look at our League One crowds, didn''t sell out too many of them at cheap prices.

 

How is that relevant? Saints aren't in League 1 any more, the standard of opponent and Saints team we see at league games is significantly better now. If the club did as Saint_clark suggested and had German level pricing of £10 to £15 for Premier League level football then yes, I think we would sell out every game in the Premier League.

[Patrick Bateman]

Ok, look at our League One crowds, didn''t sell out too many of them at cheap prices.

 

At the end of the day, at normal Premier League prices, we don't need a bigger grond, we don't sell out our current one. 32,000 is about right for us, that isn't going to change any time soon.

 

Could not agree more. We don't have the catchment, nor the demographics.

 

How many times did we exceed 30,000 at the Dell, when the Dell was all standing and could accommodate that many? Not many I reckon.

 

Until we "win stuff" and start wasting money on players like Falcao and clowns like Balotelli, we won't see the plastics and volume of day-trippers other grounds get. Look how awful the atmosphere is at Old Trafford, Anfield, The Emirates where they get more football tourists.

[Sour Mash]

Are you suggesting 17,690 for a non-competitive game is poor?

 

 

 

 

 

How is that relevant? Saints aren't in League 1 any more, the standard of opponent and Saints team we see at league games is significantly better now. If the club did as Saint_clark suggested and had German level pricing of £10 to £15 for Premier League level football then yes, I think we would sell out every game in the Premier League.

But we're not going to charge £10 or £15, so it's not relevant. Not every ticket at German games is £10 or £15 anyway.

 

But how is any of that relevant to Saints expanding St Marys? It'snot going to happen any time soon, have you managed to accept that yet?

[Turkish]

It's absolutely incredible how many people trott out the '55,000 to wembley line' everytime this subject comes up. Millwall and Luton have both taken similar numbers in recent years so I guess they should expand too?

 

Anyway, back to the subject, I'm pretty sure the club would have looked into all avenues for expansion, the German model, more tickets for away fans, easy jet type pricing, flexible pricing, man walking on the moon, Chelsea crowds in 1984 and all the other brilliant ideas that our genuses said was reason we need a bigger ground now now now and decided that after all, it wasn't soon yet.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?37346-St-Mary-s-What-we-might-expect-to-see-happen-(and-possibly-announced-soon)

[Turkish]

I see the 'we'd sell out if every game was £15' bridage are at it again already

[Matthew Le God]

32,000 is about right for us.

 

Could not agree more. We don't have the catchment, nor the demographics.

 

With the Saints team as they currently are... St Mary's is too small for games against Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton, Spurs, Chelsea and any big cup games. Other games will also sellout if near to Christmas, last home game of the season or if Saints are doing well.

 

Even if you just take the 7 teams I've mentioned as sellouts; a 40k sellout for them instead of 32k and similar attendances to what we currently get for the other 12 home games would still see the average attendance rise.

Edited 18 September, 2014 by Matthew Le God

[CB Fry]

I see the 'we'd sell out if every game was £15' bridage are at it again already

Closely followed by the "no one actually ever said that" brigade two weeks later.

[Sour Mash]

With the Saints team as they currently are... St Mary's is too small for games against Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton, Spurs, Chelsea and any big cup games. Other games will also sellout if near to Christmas, last home game of the season or if Saints are doing well.

 

Even if you just take the 7 teams I've mentioned as sellouts; a 40k sellout for them instead of 32k and similar attendances to want we currently get for the other 12 home games would still see the average attendance rise.

I'll ask again, what relevance does that have to us expanding St Marys?

 

Have you accepted that St Marys is not going to be expanded any time soon?

[View From The Top]

I thought the 90-minute rule had been removed with the new EPPP academy category system, and that as a Category 1 academy, we could recruit from wherever we like?

 

Correct.

[Matthew Le God]

Chelsea crowds in 1984 and all the other brilliant ideas that our genuses said was reason we need a bigger ground now now now and decided that after all, it wasn't soon yet.

 

Probably not a good idea to take the **** when you can't spell the word correctly!

 

Also you keep saying "Chelsea in 1984" as something I've said. I actually talked about Chelsea in the mid 1990's, not 1980's - before they had investment. You however love to take things out of context.

[Sour Mash]

With the Saints team as they currently are... St Mary's is too small for games against Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton, Spurs, Chelsea and any big cup games. Other games will also sellout if near to Christmas, last home game of the season or if Saints are doing well.

 

Even if you just take the 7 teams I've mentioned as sellouts; a 40k sellout for them instead of 32k and similar attendances to want we currently get for the other 12 home games would still see the average attendance rise.

Do you think Saints are doing well at the moment? Do you think Saints did well last season?

[Matthew Le God]

I'll ask again, what relevance does that have to us expanding St Marys?

 

It is extremely relevant as it is looking at what a rise in capacity would do to the attendance. Okay, rising to for example 40k isn't going to see games against West Brom get anywhere near max capacity, but the average attendance will still rise as the more attractive games will get close to that figure. It also helps grow the fan base long term as more people can see the bigger games.

 

Have you accepted that St Marys is not going to be expanded any time soon?

 

Hard to tell as we don't know the exact details of the attendance triggers Krueger refers to. For example how many sellout outs over what period he would need to see.

[Matthew Le God]

Do you think Saints are doing well at the moment? Do you think Saints did well last season?

 

Yes, to both. So what? Do you agree that Saints at present will likely sell out those 7 games and possibly some others this season? It is the other games that drag the average down to circa 30k, but the average would rise if the max attendance for the more attractive games was bigger. West Brom won't sell out a 40k St Mary's, but Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea would and if they did the average would rise even if only 29k turned up for the less attractive games.

[hypochondriac]

It is extremely relevant as it is looking at what a rise in capacity would do to the attendance. Okay, rising to for example 40k isn't going to see games against West Brom get anywhere near max capacity, but the average attendance will still rise as the more attractive games will get close to that figure. It also helps grow the fan base long term as more people can see the bigger games.

 

 

 

Hard to tell as we don't know the exact details of the attendance triggers Krueger refers to. For example how many sellout outs over what period he would need to see.

 

It isn't hard to tell. It obviously won't be expanded any time soon .

[Sour Mash]

It is extremely relevant as it is looking at what a rise in capacity would do to the attendance. Okay, rising to for example 40k isn't going to see games against West Brom get anywhere near max capacity, but the average attendance will still rise as the more attractive games will get close to that figure. It also helps grow the fan base long term as more people can see the bigger games.

 

 

 

Hard to tell as we don't know the exact details of the attendance triggers Krueger refers to. For example how many sellout outs over what period he would need to see.

Loads of clubs sell out for some big games, they don't base their expansion on that do they?

 

You were waffling on about expansion three years ago, have you not got the message yet?

[Sour Mash]

Yes, to both. So what? Do you agree that Saints at present will likely sell out those 7 games and possibly some others this season? It is the other games that drag the average down to circa 30k, but the average would rise if the max attendance for the more attractive games was bigger. West Brom won't sell out a 40k St Mary's, but Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea would and if they did the average would rise even if only 29k turned up for the less attractive games.

You posted above that "Other games will also sellout if near to Christmas, last home game of the season or if Saints are doing well." Saints are doing well. We're not selling out or coming particularly close. One of your statements is wrong.

[Turkish]

Probably not a good idea to take the **** when you can't spell the word correctly!

 

Also you keep saying "Chelsea in 1984" as something I've said. I actually talked about Chelsea in the mid 1990's, not 1980's - before they had investment. You however love to take things out of context.

 

So is it soon yet or not?

[Matthew Le God]

You were waffling on about expansion three years ago, have you not got the message yet?

 

Had Cortese got his way we may have expanded, but a lot has happened with the running of the club in those 3 years as you well know. We now have new people running the club, so that is a factor why it hasn't happened. However the owner remains and the current chairman isn't doing anything to rule it out. In fact he has been positive about the possibility (dependant on attendance triggers) on a number of occasions now.

[Sour Mash]

Had Cortese got his way we may have expanded, but a lot has happened with the running of the club in those 3 years as you well know. We now have new people running the club, so that is a factor why it hasn't happened. However the owner remains and the current chairman isn't doing anything to rule it out. In fact he has been positive about the possibility (dependant on attendance triggers) on a number of occasions now.

Asked about stadium expansion, Krueger said “Within the stadium structure, I think we’re happy,”. And that is from someone who always maes an effort to be extemely positive in all his interviews. We've had the same owner throughout the last three years. As you didn't realise at the time, the decision wasn't Cortese's.

[Matthew Le God]

So is it soon yet or not?

 

I'd like them to...

 

a) look to redevelop the land around the stadium like the images Cortese commissioned show

b) start with an additional tier on the Kingsland

 

Okay, you may not agree with a), but would you rule out b) as a means of creating new revenue streams in an age of FFP? b) doesn't require the club to sellout regularly in order for it to go ahead.

 

St Mary's gets lumped in with Coventry's, Middlesbrough's Derby's, Leicester's etc in terms of stadium. If Saints had a development like those Cortese commissioned it would help raise the profile of the club which may have knock on positive effects elsewhere for the club.

[hypochondriac]

Had Cortese got his way we may have expanded, but a lot has happened with the running of the club in those 3 years as you well know. We now have new people running the club, so that is a factor why it hasn't happened. However the owner remains and the current chairman isn't doing anything to rule it out. In fact he has been positive about the possibility (dependant on attendance triggers) on a number of occasions now.

 

We have the same money man (or woman) that we had before. It is no more likely to happen now than it was when Cortese was chairman.

[hypochondriac]

I'd like them to...

 

a) look to redevelop the land around the stadium like the images Cortese commissioned show

b) start with an additional tier on the Kingsland

 

Okay, you may not agree with a), but would you rule out b) as a means of creating new revenue streams in an age of FFP? b) doesn't require the club to sellout regularly in order for it to go ahead.

 

St Mary's gets lumped in with Coventry's, Middlesbrough's Derby's, Leicester's etc in terms of stadium. If Saints had a development like those Cortese commissioned it would help raise the profile of the club which may have knock on positive effects elsewhere for the club.

 

I'd like them to spend 500 million to propel s to the champions league but it doesn't mean it is likely to happen. As Sour Mash states above, it is clear from how Krueger speaks when he talks about stadium expansion that it is not going to happen any time soon (nor should it.)

[Sour Mash]

I'd like them to...

 

a) look to redevelop the land around the stadium like the images Cortese commissioned show

b) start with an additional tier on the Kingsland

 

Okay, you may not agree with a), but would you rule out b) as a means of creating new revenue streams in an age of FFP? b) doesn't require the club to sellout regularly in order for it to go ahead.

 

St Mary's gets lumped in with Coventry's, Middlesbrough's Derby's, Leicester's etc in terms of stadium. If Saints had a development like those Cortese commissioned it would help raise the profile of the club which may have knock on positive effects elsewhere for the club.

You are still demonstrating that you clearly misunderstand this subject. It isn't a case of whether or not any of us would "like" the ground to be expanded or changed (I'd like the ground to be bigger for what it's worth), there just isn't a practical business case for doing so. We all know how many games we sell out, it is easy enough to check. It's not enough I'm afraid.

[Matthew Le God]

I'd like them to spend 500 million to propel s to the champions league but it doesn't mean it is likely to happen. As Sour Mash states above, it is clear from how Krueger speaks when he talks about stadium expansion that it is not going to happen any time soon (nor should it.)

 

You are still demonstrating that you clearly misunderstand this subject. It isn't a case of whether or not any of us would "like" the ground to be expanded or changed (I'd like the ground to be bigger for what it's worth), there just isn't a practical business case for doing so. We all know how many games we sell out, it is easy enough to check. It's not enough I'm afraid.

 

Would either of you like to see point a) happen soon? If not, why not?

[hypochondriac]

Would either of you like to see point a) happen soon? If not, why not?

 

That's entirely a matter for the club. If it is easy to organise and financially viable then of course I would like to see improvements made to the club. That's quite a different point from expanding the stadium which you assured us would be happening "soon" just three years ago.

[Whitey Grandad]

You are still demonstrating that you clearly misunderstand this subject. It isn't a case of whether or not any of us would "like" the ground to be expanded or changed (I'd like the ground to be bigger for what it's worth), there just isn't a practical business case for doing so. We all know how many games we sell out, it is easy enough to check. It's not enough I'm afraid.

 

My feeling is that another 8,000 to 10,000 seats would make business sense if they could be installed at an acceptable price.

[stevegrant]

Would either of you like to see point a) happen soon? If not, why not?

My main question would be "what's the point?"

 

If I remember rightly from those graphics, it would involve buying up the land on Melbourne Street which I would expect to be prohibitively expensive based on a "when can the club expect to see a return on the investment?" basis. What are they going to put there? A bigger megastore? We can't sell half the crap they put on sale in the current one for a whole host of reasons.

[Sour Mash]

Would either of you like to see point a) happen soon? If not, why not?

What actually is "Option a)"? What is being constructed?

[Sour Mash]

My feeling is that another 8,000 to 10,000 seats would make business sense if they could be installed at an acceptable price.

But it doesn't make business sense. That's why we haven't done it.

[stevegrant]

My feeling is that another 8,000 to 10,000 seats would make business sense if they could be installed at an acceptable price.

But therein lies the problem, they can't be installed at an acceptable price, as far as I can tell. Even a decade ago it would have cost £3k a seat, so a 10k upgrade would cost £30m, pretty much the cost of the whole stadium when it was first built, and that's not allowing for inflation or potential fluctuations in the cost of steel and other raw materials.

[angelman]

I don't see the infatuation with a new station. Maybe it is because I hardly ever come in by train although I did last weekend because of the warning of the non-existent extra traffic due to the boat show. To be honest, I liked it. Drive a few miles to Brockenhurst and it's 12 minutes in to Soton Central.

 

Anyway, if there was going to be an increase in capacity, then to me there would need to be 2 things that happened. The footbridge over the railway line is already inadequate. I was told that it would have been horrendously expensive to build a bigger one - for some reason it was in the millions. Can't recall why for something seemingly so simple. A

 

And the other thing, is the ease of exiting the stadium. I sit it row JJ and it's a ****ing nightmare getting out at the end of the game (and then you also have the queue to get over the railway). Really poor design. Should have access directly out of the stand from high up.

[Matthew Le God]

But therein lies the problem, they can't be installed at an acceptable price, as far as I can tell. Even a decade ago it would have cost £3k a seat, so a 10k upgrade would cost £30m, pretty much the cost of the whole stadium when it was first built, and that's not allowing for inflation or potential fluctuations in the cost of steel and other raw materials.

 

What are you using to determine what is an "acceptable price"?

[stevegrant]

What are you using to determine what is an "acceptable price"?

The rest of my post that you presumably didn't bother to read.

 

At least £30m for 10,000 extra seats that may only be used 7 times a year doesn't even come close to being a sensible investment.

[Whitey Grandad]

What are you using to determine what is an "acceptable price"?

 

That's determined by the person or business that's paying for them. £3k per seat is perhaps 5 to 7 years of season ticket price as an illustration. Might even be worth doing to offset windfall profits from unplanned player sales, but I'll leave that to the accountants.

[Matthew Le God]

At least £30m for 10,000 extra seats that may only be used 7 times a year doesn't even come close to being a sensible investment.

 

Why have Wolves built a new stand?

 

Why have Brighton added 8,000 seats to the Amex?

 

etc etc

 

Football is long term, if Saints built a new tier on the Kingsland it would still be used in 20 or 30 years time.

[Patrick Bateman]

I'd like them to...

 

a) look to redevelop the land around the stadium like the images Cortese commissioned show

b) start with an additional tier on the Kingsland

 

Okay, you may not agree with a), but would you rule out b) as a means of creating new revenue streams in an age of FFP? b) doesn't require the club to sellout regularly in order for it to go ahead.

 

St Mary's gets lumped in with Coventry's, Middlesbrough's Derby's, Leicester's etc in terms of stadium. If Saints had a development like those Cortese commissioned it would help raise the profile of the club which may have knock on positive effects elsewhere for the club.

 

Without being too mean, your world must be so simple.

 

You're exactly like those people on Dragon's Den (or people I see weekly trying to get me to help fund their ideas) who come up with a half-baked idea, a business case with no foundation and no research or data to back it up.

 

Saints get "lumped in" with those stadiums as they're pretty similar, bog-standard medium size city/town stadiums, built for the size of catchment. Well, except Middlesbrough who seem to get about 3 people per match now.

 

And even when we do sell out (how many times last season, a couple?), it is not hard to get a ticket - corporate normally always has space. For the last match last season, I ended up with 4 tickets from people who didn't want to go, so flogged them on. Even though, I struggled to shift them.

 

Very simply;

 

It would cost about £30m (using Steve's seat calculations), if not more, to build 10000 seats on the Kingsland.

 

At an average cost of £30 a seat (it wouldn't be that high after concessions), that would take 100 matches, to recoup the £30m.

 

If based on your 7 game sell-out a year, we got an extra 10000 for those 7 matches (!!!!), that would take nearly 15 years, just to pay back the original investment.

 

I'm out.

[Batman]

Without being too mean, your world must be so simple.

 

You're exactly like those people on Dragon's Den (or people I see weekly trying to get me to help fund their ideas) who come up with a half-baked idea, a business case with no foundation and no research or data to back it up.

 

Saints get "lumped in" with those stadiums as they're pretty similar, bog-standard medium size city/town stadiums, built for the size of catchment. Well, except Middlesbrough who seem to get about 3 people per match now.

 

And even when we do sell out (how many times last season, a couple?), it is not hard to get a ticket - corporate normally always has space. For the last match last season, I ended up with 4 tickets from people who didn't want to go, so flogged them on. Even though, I struggled to shift them.

 

Very simply;

 

It would cost about £30m (using Steve's seat calculations), if not more, to build 10000 seats on the Kingsland.

 

At an average cost of £30 a seat (it wouldn't be that high after concessions), that would take 100 matches, to recoup the £30m.

 

If based on your 7 game sell-out a year, we got an extra 10000 for those 7 matches (!!!!), that would take nearly 15 years, just to pay back the original investment.

 

I'm out.

 

But man climbed Everest

[Griffo]

I think 32k is about right for us with our fanbase. However I'd be for some sort of expansion just because St Mary's is so dull and looks like 5/6 other football league grounds. Something that made the ground a bit more unique would be decent.

[Matthew Le God]

Without being too mean, your world must be so simple.

 

You're exactly like those people on Dragon's Den (or people I see weekly trying to get me to help fund their ideas) who come up with a half-baked idea, a business case with no foundation and no research or data to back it up.

 

Saints get "lumped in" with those stadiums as they're pretty similar, bog-standard medium size city/town stadiums, built for the size of catchment. Well, except Middlesbrough who seem to get about 3 people per match now.

 

And even when we do sell out (how many times last season, a couple?), it is not hard to get a ticket - corporate normally always has space. For the last match last season, I ended up with 4 tickets from people who didn't want to go, so flogged them on. Even though, I struggled to shift them.

 

Very simply;

 

It would cost about £30m (using Steve's seat calculations), if not more, to build 10000 seats on the Kingsland.

 

At an average cost of £30 a seat (it wouldn't be that high after concessions), that would take 100 matches, to recoup the £30m.

 

If based on your 7 game sell-out a year, we got an extra 10000 for those 7 matches (!!!!), that would take nearly 15 years, just to pay back the original investment.

 

I'm out.

 

I'll refer you to the same thing...

 

Why have Wolves built a new stand?

 

Why have Brighton added 8,000 seats to the Amex?

 

etc etc

 

Football is long term, if Saints built a new tier on the Kingsland it would still be used in 20 or 30 years time.

[Whitey Grandad]

And the other thing, is the ease of exiting the stadium. I sit it row JJ and it's a ****ing nightmare getting out at the end of the game (and then you also have the queue to get over the railway). Really poor design. Should have access directly out of the stand from high up.

 

It's only a few minutes, what's the rush?

[The Kraken]

Why have Wolves built a new stand?

 

Why have Brighton added 8,000 seats to the Amex?

 

etc etc

 

Football is long term, if Saints built a new tier on the Kingsland it would still be used in 20 or 30 years time.

Tell it to a Ralph. He's the man making the decisions and, unlike you, knows what he's doing and is clearly in no rush to get it done.

 

Im im more than happy to follow Ralph's lead on this one. It isn't happening "soon" and I'm fine with that right now.

[Whitey Grandad]

Without being too mean, your world must be so simple.

 

You're exactly like those people on Dragon's Den (or people I see weekly trying to get me to help fund their ideas) who come up with a half-baked idea, a business case with no foundation and no research or data to back it up.

 

Saints get "lumped in" with those stadiums as they're pretty similar, bog-standard medium size city/town stadiums, built for the size of catchment. Well, except Middlesbrough who seem to get about 3 people per match now.

 

And even when we do sell out (how many times last season, a couple?), it is not hard to get a ticket - corporate normally always has space. For the last match last season, I ended up with 4 tickets from people who didn't want to go, so flogged them on. Even though, I struggled to shift them.

 

Very simply;

 

It would cost about £30m (using Steve's seat calculations), if not more, to build 10000 seats on the Kingsland.

 

At an average cost of £30 a seat (it wouldn't be that high after concessions), that would take 100 matches, to recoup the £30m.

 

If based on your 7 game sell-out a year, we got an extra 10000 for those 7 matches (!!!!), that would take nearly 15 years, just to pay back the original investment.

 

I'm out.

 

That's 6% return, not bad these days