Roger Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 I thought Saturday with Benali run it felt like the saints I started watching in the 80s. I've criticised Ralph Kruger but seeing him on the run and hearing how they are tweeting the ex pros again is great to hear. Whatever we think of him he sounds a nice person. Lovely to hear le tiss and Gordon watson were at staple wood having tea on Friday morning with koeman. Feel part if the saints family again. Sure manji will try and corrupt thread but I'm proud to be a saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 I thought Saturday with Benali run it felt like the saints I started watching in the 80s. I've criticised Ralph Kruger but seeing him on the run and hearing how they are tweeting the ex pros again is great to hear. Whatever we think of him he sounds a nice person. Lovely to hear le tiss and Gordon watson were at staple wood having tea on Friday morning with koeman. Feel part if the saints family again. Sure manji will try and corrupt thread but I'm proud to be a saints. It does feel more human than it has for a few years and we appear to be more than mere customers again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 I thought Saturday with Benali run it felt like the saints I started watching in the 80s. I've criticised Ralph Kruger but seeing him on the run and hearing how they are tweeting the ex pros again is great to hear. Whatever we think of him he sounds a nice person. Lovely to hear le tiss and Gordon watson were at staple wood having tea on Friday morning with koeman. Feel part if the saints family again. Sure manji will try and corrupt thread but I'm proud to be a saints. Fair point. I think even us who were supportive of NC would acknowledge we lost something during that time. Maybe there is no specific wrong or right here, and that different circumstances needed different measures... ? After the mess we were in, some cold hard nosed decision making with little room for sentiment was probably what was needed to get us back so quickly, especially when you see how many big clubs have struggled post relegation. Something proven to be the correct approach... ..But maybe without Marcus's guiding hand to soften things a bit, it's not surprising how many felt we had gone too far. With stability and prem football returned, not surprising either that it was time for a softening of the approach and a return to our more 'traditional' values? . I can see why this is great and appealing, but let's hope that we don't go back to accepting mediocrity. We have shown the league and other clubs what can be done with a more challenging philosophy and despite having the cream of talent picked off, seem to be showing once again that if not stuck on giving jobs to to the old school rent a managers, but trying something new, we might just be able to repeat the feats of last season.... Trick is in not having to go through the same again next summer, because an element of luck in recruitment is certainly a major requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 15 September, 2014 Author Share Posted 15 September, 2014 Fair point. I think even us who were supportive of NC would acknowledge we lost something during that time. Maybe there is no specific wrong or right here, and that different circumstances needed different measures... ? After the mess we were in, some cold hard nosed decision making with little room for sentiment was probably what was needed to get us back so quickly, especially when you see how many big clubs have struggled post relegation. Something proven to be the correct approach... ..But maybe without Marcus's guiding hand to soften things a bit, it's not surprising how many felt we had gone too far. With stability and prem football returned, not surprising either that it was time for a softening of the approach and a return to our more 'traditional' values? . I can see why this is great and appealing, but let's hope that we don't go back to accepting mediocrity. We have shown the league and other clubs what can be done with a more challenging philosophy and despite having the cream of talent picked off, seem to be showing once again that if not stuck on giving jobs to to the old school rent a managers, but trying something new, we might just be able to repeat the feats of last season.... Trick is in not having to go through the same again next summer, because an element of luck in recruitment is certainly a major requirement. Agree entirely frank. However, we did okay in the 80s I know football changed since then but we also have a billionaire owner who seems to embrace the cities family values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckenham Saint Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 I thought these things were just "easy PR wins" for "Wreck it Ralph"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 (edited) Fair point. I think even us who were supportive of NC would acknowledge we lost something during that time. No, anyone who mentioned "that we lost something" was jumped on by the forum ***ts. Edited 15 September, 2014 by aintforever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 I agree that under NC we lost something. But, in his defence, we were in a pretty lowly place and look where we were when he got off the bus. Back in the PL and seemingly quite well established (if anyone outside of the elite can say that), maybe the club can afford to be a bit more gracious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 The 'club' is greater by far than any individual, no matter how big their contribution ! This will always be the case ! Our thanks will always reach out to Ted, Lawrie, Matt, Markus and many others but in the final reckoning it will always be the 'club' ! Right now we are in a good place with good people at the helm, but whatever happens in the future the 'club' will always be the 'club' and real fans will always stay with that principle ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 Fair point. I think even us who were supportive of NC would acknowledge we lost something during that time. Maybe there is no specific wrong or right here, and that different circumstances needed different measures... ? After the mess we were in, some cold hard nosed decision making with little room for sentiment was probably what was needed to get us back so quickly, especially when you see how many big clubs have struggled post relegation. Something proven to be the correct approach... ..But maybe without Marcus's guiding hand to soften things a bit, it's not surprising how many felt we had gone too far. With stability and prem football returned, not surprising either that it was time for a softening of the approach and a return to our more 'traditional' values? . I can see why this is great and appealing, but let's hope that we don't go back to accepting mediocrity. We have shown the league and other clubs what can be done with a more challenging philosophy and despite having the cream of talent picked off, seem to be showing once again that if not stuck on giving jobs to to the old school rent a managers, but trying something new, we might just be able to repeat the feats of last season.... Trick is in not having to go through the same again next summer, because an element of luck in recruitment is certainly a major requirement. Cortese had his faults, but they could be overlooked to an extent because of the results that he achieved. He was a single-minded control freak and as you say, that is maybe what we needed at the time. But let us not forget that one major reason that Markus Liebherr was attracted to buy us, (apart from us being a damned good investment opportunity) was because we are a family club with decent values and a respectable reputation. Now that Cortese has left, it is reasonable to accept that although he was so effective in regaining us our place among the Premier League hierarchy, his abrasive nature upset many people, including some who had been good servants of the club's past history. Whereas his principled stance on everybody having to pay admission for their seats was arguably reasonable when it concerned wealthy players and past managers who had previously had freebies, other things he did alienated many who deserved respect and recognition for what they had given the club. There is no reason why the people running our club, or indeed any sort of business, cannot be ambitious and single-minded in their pursuit of their goals, but at the same time respectful and considerate to their staff, players, the club's fans and those who have given something noteworthy to the club's success in the past. A good philosophy is to treat others as you would expect them to treat you. For all that some have castigated our Chairman and other board members, they come across as decent people and are making the right noises towards mending bridges with the likes of Lawrie, MLT, Benali and others. There are no signs that we are a club prepared to accept mediocrity. The appointment of Ronald Koeman and his brother was a signal of our intent, a bit left-field, when we could have appointed a known name from those with PL experience. I take quite a positive view of the events of this summer and the implications for it happening again. We have proved that no player is indispensible. Every player can be replaced with somebody as good, often for less money, provided that you have a good scouting organisation to unearth diamonds. The situation we endured, might actually be beneficial in preventing its re-occurence to such an extent in future. The next batch will see that some of those who departed, will only play bit parts in their new teams, bench-warming or playing in the occasional cup match. They might even be loaned out to a team below us. It increasingly looks as if Schneiderlin is recognising that he is better off with us and that he is beginning to see that the club is showing as much, if not more ambition than he realised, the same sort of ambition that Cortese showed, in fact. Now that the dust has settled and we appear to actually be stronger than we were before all of the summer turmoil, people are beginning to trust the board and their intentions and to appreciate that being recognised as a family club and playing the Southampton way, are aims that should be applauded as an example to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 No, anyone who mentioned "that we lost something" was jumped on by the forum mongs. Well let's suggest that in regaining the 'family values' that were lost, we might stop using the 'mong' term at every opportunity... I dare say it's offensive to some families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 Well let's suggest that in regaining the 'family values' that were lost' date=' we might stop using the 'mong' term at every opportunity... I dare say it's offensive to some families.[/quote'] Agreed. It says a lot more about the people who use it than those that they aim it at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 I dont get this family club nonsense. It still is a business, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 No one can get it right all the time and Kruguer didn't get it right at the beginning of the summer when the club first of all failed to communicate and then communicated inaccurately. Those loyalists who say they had no doubts during that period aren't even being honest with themselves when they now abuse other dedicated fans who were truly worried about how things were going. Whether it was always Kruguer's plan to rebuild as successfully as we have, or whether it should be Koeman who deserves most of the credit, we may never be sure but either way, we do have a genuine feel-good factor that wasn't always quite so evident, even during the success of recent years. As Chairman, Kruguer is fully entitled to take the credit for that and he may well have learnt from the events of the summer. One thing that would help the family feel though, is the hands of the users of this forum, which would be to cut out the abuse that is used to decry statements of opinion. It is sad to see some fans claiming they are true fans and that others are not when in reality we all support the same team and should all be on the same side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 No one can get it right all the time and Kruguer didn't get it right at the beginning of the summer when the club first of all failed to communicate and then communicated inaccurately. Those loyalists who say they had no doubts during that period aren't even being honest with themselves when they now abuse other dedicated fans who were truly worried about how things were going. Whether it was always Kruguer's plan to rebuild as successfully as we have, or whether it should be Koeman who deserves most of the credit, we may never be sure but either way, we do have a genuine feel-good factor that wasn't always quite so evident, even during the success of recent years. As Chairman, Kruguer is fully entitled to take the credit for that and he may well have learnt from the events of the summer. One thing that would help the family feel though, is the hands of the users of this forum, which would be to cut out the abuse that is used to decry statements of opinion. It is sad to see some fans claiming they are true fans and that others are not when in reality we all support the same team and should all be on the same side. Here is a positive thread celebrating the apparent changes to the way that the club is treating us the fans and the ex-players and others associated with the good contributions they played in the club's history and you take the opportunity to have a go at the chairman. You have made up your mind based on very little evidence, that Krueger misled the fans. Those who had faith in the board and those who said that they would wait and see how things would turn out on Sept 1st, (as urged to do so by Krueger), might well have had their doubts, but at least they were prepared to take statements from the board at face value, rather than either levelling childish insults at them, or predicting dire consequences. The board made a statment to the effect that the money raised from the sale of those players would be re-invested in their replacements, so quite why you have an issue about whether they or Koeman should be credited with it, I don't know. No doubt he had his input and influenced players to come here, but then that is how it should be. Krueger has had the humility to have admitted making mistakes and has already said that he and the board have learned from it. It is to be hoped that certain elements on this forum will also have learned a valuable lesson, that jumping to conclusions on the basis of scant evidence is unwise. Statements of opinion are what a forum is all about and opinions have increased validity if based on some factual evidence or precedence that lends them credence. A lot of those "opinions" posted during the summer were ridiculous and many were just plain vile abuse aimed at our owner and the board. Certainly people like that aren't the ones to help foster an image as a family club. Or would you seek to excuse them as being the true fans who really cared? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 Well let's suggest that in regaining the 'family values' that were lost' date=' we might stop using the 'mong' term at every opportunity... I dare say it's offensive to some families.[/quote'] Fair point, I've changed the word now. What I said was correct though, anyone who criticised anything about Cortese was jumped on by our resident weirdos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 I dont get this family club nonsense. It still is a business, of course, but most of the " customers " are loyal to the brand and they like the end product ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 Fair point, I've changed the word now. What I said was correct though, anyone who criticised anything about Cortese was jumped on by our resident weirdos. Sadly I think there are some who are only happy when they have something to gripe about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
croydonsaint Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 beautiful post Becks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 Here is a positive thread celebrating the apparent changes to the way that the club is treating us the fans and the ex-players and others associated with the good contributions they played in the club's history and you take the opportunity to have a go at the chairman. You have made up your mind based on very little evidence, that Krueger misled the fans. Those who had faith in the board and those who said that they would wait and see how things would turn out on Sept 1st, (as urged to do so by Krueger), might well have had their doubts, but at least they were prepared to take statements from the board at face value, rather than either levelling childish insults at them, or predicting dire consequences. The board made a statment to the effect that the money raised from the sale of those players would be re-invested in their replacements, so quite why you have an issue about whether they or Koeman should be credited with it, I don't know. No doubt he had his input and influenced players to come here, but then that is how it should be. Krueger has had the humility to have admitted making mistakes and has already said that he and the board have learned from it. It is to be hoped that certain elements on this forum will also have learned a valuable lesson, that jumping to conclusions on the basis of scant evidence is unwise. Statements of opinion are what a forum is all about and opinions have increased validity if based on some factual evidence or precedence that lends them credence. A lot of those "opinions" posted during the summer were ridiculous and many were just plain vile abuse aimed at our owner and the board. Certainly people like that aren't the ones to help foster an image as a family club. Or would you seek to excuse them as being the true fans who really cared? Wes, I think the point you have missed is that it didn't feel much like a family club in the early summer when many people, not just amongst the fans but in the media as well, were expressing concerns about meltdown. It does feel so much better now but your own response shows how much bitterness is still just below the surface. If the board are working to mend the fences, so much the better but suggesting that the positive moves now may partly be a response to what went before isn't 'having a go at the chairman', it is simply noting that out of disagreement may come accord and that a bad time may be the incentive to do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 I dont get this family club nonsense. It still is a business, This, Football has changed so much now, I think the term "family club" is obsolete. The very nature of being in the Prem probably means that all "family club" practices have been consigned to history and replaced by commercial practices. That doesnt stop a club remembering their past, acknowledging its past players, holding charity events etc etc but, on the odd occasion that they do, it doesn't mean they have suddenly turned back into a family club. Times have changed, you used to go to your local butchers...but now you shop at the retail giant Tesco's, you used to go to your local Insurance Broker as he has dealt with all your insurance needs...but now you shop around online for the best quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 As many know I was never a fan of Cortese but IMO if Markus had not passed away some of the things Cortese said and did may not have happened as I think Markus had a father figure hand on his shoulder when he was alive. But that is all in the past lets all just look forward to where this new team that has been put together can take us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 Fair point, I've changed the word now. What I said was correct though, anyone who criticised anything about Cortese was jumped on by our resident weirdos. Fair play - respect. But can't you see that the weirdos jumping on any one who criticised Cortese, is no different to those now jumping on anyone who criticised Krueger and the board? Reality is, for some weird reason, we all differ and tend to favour one set of board folk to others - think that is normal as we won't all be judging things on the same criteria or values - what are the most important things to some, might not be to others. We just need to maybe accept - and I include myself in this- that ALL should be open to criticism as well as getting the plaudits when they do good things.... We all tend to be more vocal in criticism than in praise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 This, Football has changed so much now, I think the term "family club" is obsolete. The very nature of being in the Prem probably means that all "family club" practices have been consigned to history and replaced by commercial practices. That doesnt stop a club remembering their past, acknowledging its past players, holding charity events etc etc but, on the odd occasion that they do, it doesn't mean they have suddenly turned back into a family club. Times have changed, you used to go to your local butchers...but now you shop at the retail giant Tesco's, you used to go to your local Insurance Broker as he has dealt with all your insurance needs...but now you shop around online for the best quote. Still nicer to see us celebrating our ex pros and publicising things like the benali run. Makes everyone feel good about the club even if it is all just a sham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 Wes, I think the point you have missed is that it didn't feel much like a family club in the early summer when many people, not just amongst the fans but in the media as well, were expressing concerns about meltdown. It does feel so much better now but your own response shows how much bitterness is still just below the surface. If the board are working to mend the fences, so much the better but suggesting that the positive moves now may partly be a response to what went before isn't 'having a go at the chairman', it is simply noting that out of disagreement may come accord and that a bad time may be the incentive to do better. Nice of you to turn it around, so that when I mention that you have for some reason taken a thread about the returning family atmosphere and decided to take a sideways swipe at the Chairman, it's somehow me who is bitter. Au contraire, I have consistently through the summer taken a wait and see viewpoint and that position has been vindicated. If it comforts you to believe that the board somehow changed the way that they addressed the situation (which they largely had no control over), or are acting in a more conciliatory way towards the fans now as a result, then fill your boots. As for the media, you'd have to be pretty naive to have believed everything that they printed, when their policy is always to sensationalise everything in order to sell copy. The board said that the club was not for sale, that there was no fire sale, but some on here preferred to take everything they read in the gutter press as gospel. The board said from the time they arrived that they wanted to be more open and communicative with the fans, so that rather preempts your suggestion that they are only doing it now because of the events of the summer. Or didn't you believe them then either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 yes we are still a business as someone said but Saturday showed that we are again a business with a heart at the center of Southampton peoples lives. Over the last 54 years of going to games there are certain events not exactly on the pitch which will always live with me and make me say stuff Chelsea, Arsenal and United, Southampton and proud of it. Those events are, and in no order 25000 staying in their seats at half time to welcome Franny back Lawrie Mac leading the team onto the pitch at the Dell after the rape allegations Le Tiss's testimonial The last game at the Dell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 Many saints fans were prepared to accept anything if they were told what they wanted to here and given a sniff of the champions league, even if it was only talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 Agree the club has a good feel about it again, not least the old Saints players being welcomed back into the fold. I have been lucky enough to have been a guest of a friend in the Presidential Suite for the first two league games. On the first Hugh Fisher, Peter Rodrigues and Reuben Agboola were guests with David Armstrong floating around. On Saturday it was Mark Dennis, Nick Holmes and Bryn Elliott with Jim Steel and Jim McCalliog floating. A friend of mine who has a season ticket in the Liebherr suite said David Armstrong was a guest in there on Saturday. Le Tissier was in the Director box as a guest of the club. McMenemy and Crouch were in the box behind me both games. I found out this afternoon that the club have given Ex Saints 5 passes for the Presidential Suite for the season as Ambassadors. The two businessmen who run Ex Saints plus 3 ex players. Cortese had blocked the lost during his tenure as we know. And finally Rupert Lowe is still a supporter from afar and enjoying our revival especially seeing "his boys" coming from the academy into the first team. He was referring to Ward-Prowse this time. Guy Askam is also a season ticket holder in the Liebherr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckenham Saint Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 beautiful post Becks You too, Croyds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 Times have changed, you used to go to your local butchers...but now you shop at the retail giant Tesco's My local butcher is great. One of the benefits of living in London is it still has small shops that haven't been closed out by the soulless chains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich102 Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 (edited) Hasn't been mentioned much but the carnival thing for kids beforehand was great too. Nice way to get young supporters involved at the start of the new season - especially as home to NCFC is as close as you get to a guaranteed 3 points! Edited 15 September, 2014 by Rich102 Clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 Lawrie Mac leading the team onto the pitch at the Dell after the rape allegations good old family values! I have never heard bout this, what is this bout pls? Edit: I get text alert when someone mentions rape on the forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 good old family values! I have never heard bout this, what is this bout pls? Edit: I get text alert when someone mentions rape on the forumsteve Moran and Mark Wright were accused of rape in Sweden IIRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 cheers, my google searches for Lawrie MacRape were proving fruitless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 yes we are still a business as someone said but Saturday showed that we are again a business with a heart at the center of Southampton peoples lives. Over the last 54 years of going to games there are certain events not exactly on the pitch which will always live with me and make me say stuff Chelsea, Arsenal and United, Southampton and proud of it. Those events are, and in no order 25000 staying in their seats at half time to welcome Franny back Lawrie Mac leading the team onto the pitch at the Dell after the rape allegations Le Tiss's testimonial The last game at the Dell Magnificent post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 15 September, 2014 Share Posted 15 September, 2014 Hasn't been mentioned much but the carnival thing for kids beforehand was great too. Nice way to get young supporters involved at the start of the new season - especially as home to NCFC is as close as you get to a guaranteed 3 points! The queues outside the family stand to get in at 1450 were the longest I've ever seen. I didn't take my 5yo to the funfair, I gave him a proper football education for his first game and took him to the pub instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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