September One - Judgement Day

[saintbletch]

The intent is mainly to wind up people demanding empathy for people who spent the summer being angry at a fire sale that didn't happen and was never happening.

 

Job done.

 

Hmm. It looks like we're back to the "I'm not really angry" defence.

 

Look, this is just an Internet forum CB Fry. I'm not a "real" threat to you, and you needn't be scared of debating the issues with me. I might win the argument, but I can't hurt you in the real world.

 

I'd have thought you'd be pretty good at debating on an Internet forum if you could only rid yourself of all that anger.

 

Where do you think your anger stems from, and why did my seemingly innocuous post make you so angry? Was it the length? I get that a lot.

 

But the job done bit? No, not yet. We both know you need to win this discussion, and until you can control that anger thing, deep down you'll know I'm right.

 

If it helps, I will happily concede that you've wound me up, was looking for empathy, and I was/am a fire-sale lunatic.

 

But on the anger thing. No. Sorry.

[saintbletch]

What were the questions?

 

Good to see your smiling face back about the place Gay Boot.

 

Questions were:

 

1) Are you angry?

2) Are you right?

[OldNick]

Hmm. It looks like we're back to the "I'm not really angry" defence.

 

Look, this is just an Internet forum CB Fry. I'm not a "real" threat to you, and you needn't be scared of debating the issues with me. I might win the argument, but I can't hurt you in the real world.

 

I'd have thought you'd be pretty good at debating on an Internet forum if you could only rid yourself of all that anger.

 

Where do you think your anger stems from, and why did my seemingly innocuous post make you so angry? Was it the length? I get that a lot.

 

But the job done bit? No, not yet. We both know you need to win this discussion, and until you can control that anger thing, deep down you'll know I'm right.

 

If it helps, I will happily concede that you've wound me up, was looking for empathy, and I was/am a fire-sale lunatic.

 

But on the anger thing. No. Sorry.

Top post. That is a very good assessment. Wes Tender put up a medical term/condition for CB's aggressive replies. It is a shame because behind the rants and unpleasantness he seems very decent and bright. When I have got him to reply in a more measured way he is a very good poster, but then he lapses back to the unpleasant rants.

There are some very mixed up people on here, I suppose that is the internet for you.

[tpbury]

Thanks for taking the time to read it CB Fry, I'm just sorry that it made you so angry.

 

That was never my intention.

 

PASSIVE aggressive.

!

[suewhistle]

Ah, OK.

 

You mean you don't even realise how your posts come across?

 

No, he hasn't changed. He's still a ****.

[Professor]

Hmm. It looks like we're back to the "I'm not really angry" defence.

 

Look, this is just an Internet forum CB Fry. I'm not a "real" threat to you, and you needn't be scared of debating the issues with me. I might win the argument, but I can't hurt you in the real world.

 

I'd have thought you'd be pretty good at debating on an Internet forum if you could only rid yourself of all that anger.

 

Where do you think your anger stems from, and why did my seemingly innocuous post make you so angry? Was it the length? I get that a lot.

 

But the job done bit? No, not yet. We both know you need to win this discussion, and until you can control that anger thing, deep down you'll know I'm right.

 

If it helps, I will happily concede that you've wound me up, was looking for empathy, and I was/am a fire-sale lunatic.

 

But on the anger thing. No. Sorry.

I have CB Fry on ignore and hope he has done the same for me. You can't learn very much useful from people who have a closed mind and can't influence someone who already knows it all. In Mr Fry's case debate is anyway stifled by the use of unpleasant language so now I only see his posts when someone bothers to quote them.

[CB Fry]

Hmm. It looks like we're back to the "I'm not really angry" defence.

 

Look, this is just an Internet forum CB Fry. I'm not a "real" threat to you, and you needn't be scared of debating the issues with me. I might win the argument, but I can't hurt you in the real world.

 

I'd have thought you'd be pretty good at debating on an Internet forum if you could only rid yourself of all that anger.

 

Where do you think your anger stems from, and why did my seemingly innocuous post make you so angry? Was it the length? I get that a lot.

 

But the job done bit? No, not yet. We both know you need to win this discussion, and until you can control that anger thing, deep down you'll know I'm right.

 

If it helps, I will happily concede that you've wound me up, was looking for empathy, and I was/am a fire-sale lunatic.

 

But on the anger thing. No. Sorry.

 

It's not a "defence", I'm not angry at anything.

 

The post this morning was a little deconstruction of you pleading for empathy for over reacting on the summer when all it needed was for you to show empathy to those running the club at the time. Would have saved the overreaction.

 

Just what I thought was a cute observation.

 

How you see any anger in that lawd only knows. But if it is a new schtick to try and beat me with, crack on. I'll file it next to the stuff about me being a huge fan of Tony Pulis. I dish it out, so more than happy to take it if it is amusing. It being true is barely a concern.

[alpine_saint]

Hmm. It looks like we're back to the "I'm not really angry" defence.

 

Look, this is just an Internet forum CB Fry. I'm not a "real" threat to you, and you needn't be scared of debating the issues with me. I might win the argument, but I can't hurt you in the real world.

 

I'd have thought you'd be pretty good at debating on an Internet forum if you could only rid yourself of all that anger.

 

Where do you think your anger stems from, and why did my seemingly innocuous post make you so angry? Was it the length? I get that a lot.

 

But the job done bit? No, not yet. We both know you need to win this discussion, and until you can control that anger thing, deep down you'll know I'm right.

 

If it helps, I will happily concede that you've wound me up, was looking for empathy, and I was/am a fire-sale lunatic.

 

But on the anger thing. No. Sorry.

 

 

I reckon that makes it Game, Set and Match to Saintbletch...

[saintbletch]

It's not a "defence", I'm not angry at anything.

 

The post this morning was a little deconstruction of you pleading for empathy for over reacting on the summer when all it needed was for you to show empathy to those running the club at the time. Would have saved the overreaction.

 

Just what I thought was a cute observation.

 

How you see any anger in that lawd only knows. But if it is a new schtick to try and beat me with, crack on. I'll file it next to the stuff about me being a huge fan of Tony Pulis. I dish it out, so more than happy to take it if it is amusing. It being true is barely a concern.

 

I must say I expected more.

 

Three or four posts of me yanking your strings, and you're dancing to the puppetmaster's tune...

 

...justifying yourself, forced to drop the insults, pleading to be liked, but still screaming at the top of your voice that you're not angry.

 

"For the tenth time I AM NOT ****ING ANGRY!"

Shh, shh. It's OK. That's right. Deep breaths.

 

"I was just trying to be cute"

Bless.

 

"I'm so over people saying I'm a fan of Tony Pulis that I instantly volunteer it".

LOL.

 

"I dish it out me, so when the flak starts flying I've got to stand tall and take the medicine like a real man".

You do know that this is just an Internet forum, don't you?

 

 

How do you like them cutes, CB Fry?

 

Pass me another forum bully. This one's broken. Next!

 

-=-=-=-=-

 

Well that's what I might have said if I were trying to ape someone with a perma-angry, inferiority-driven, THESE ARE NOT MY OPINIONS THEY ARE FACTS complex.

 

But that's not me, and as I'm seeking professional help to get rid of my very own version of that complex, I'll simply concede the points you make, state that I can see how you've reached your opinion, thank you for conveying your points with neither pejorative nor anger, and bid you good day.

 

x

 

This post was brought to you by the TMS Anti-Bullying Alliance (Actively seeking members! *Free* "Tokyo gratification" for the first 10 members!).

 

Toke's a ****.

[The9]

I must say I expected more.

 

Three or four posts of me etc.

 

This would work better if he came across as angry to anyone else.

[CB Fry]

I must say I expected more.

 

Three or four posts of me yanking your strings, and you're dancing to the puppetmaster's tune...

 

...justifying yourself, forced to drop the insults, pleading to be liked, but still screaming at the top of your voice that you're not angry.

 

 

Shh, shh. It's OK. That's right. Deep breaths.

 

 

Bless.

 

 

LOL.

 

 

You do know that this is just an Internet forum, don't you?

 

 

How do you like them cutes, CB Fry?

 

Pass me another forum bully. This one's broken. Next!

 

-=-=-=-=-

 

Well that's what I might have said if I were trying to ape someone with a perma-angry, inferiority-driven, THESE ARE NOT MY OPINIONS THEY ARE FACTS complex.

 

But that's not me, and as I'm seeking professional help to get rid of my very own version of that complex, I'll simply concede the points you make, state that I can see how you've reached your opinion, thank you for conveying your points with neither pejorative nor anger, and bid you good day.

 

x

 

This post was brought to you by the TMS Anti-Bullying Alliance (Actively seeking members! *Free* "Tokyo gratification" for the first 10 members!).

 

Toke's a ****.

 

It's me who is the angry one, right?

Edited 8 September, 2014 by CB Fry

[Beckenham Saint]

Ah, OK.

 

You mean you don't even realise how your posts come across?

 

Hmm. It looks like we're back to the "I'm not really angry" defence.

 

Look, this is just an Internet forum CB Fry. I'm not a "real" threat to you, and you needn't be scared of debating the issues with me. I might win the argument, but I can't hurt you in the real world.

 

I'd have thought you'd be pretty good at debating on an Internet forum if you could only rid yourself of all that anger.

 

Where do you think your anger stems from, and why did my seemingly innocuous post make you so angry? Was it the length? I get that a lot.

 

But the job done bit? No, not yet. We both know you need to win this discussion, and until you can control that anger thing, deep down you'll know I'm right.

 

If it helps, I will happily concede that you've wound me up, was looking for empathy, and I was/am a fire-sale lunatic.

 

But on the anger thing. No. Sorry.

 

Saintbletch, if you have the time, maybe it would be good practice to re-read all of the diatribe's you have just posted, and then have a quick look at the first post I've quoted above. Your display pic is ridiculously appropriate, by the way!

[pap]

It's me who is the angry one, right?

 

Yes, and in case anyone was in any doubt after your recent go at doing non-angry (you performing seal, you!), here is a fantastic resource to help them out.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/member.php?1138-CB-Fry

 

Well played bletch. I think you elicited shame there.

Edited 8 September, 2014 by pap

[saintbletch]

This would work better if he came across as angry to anyone else.

 

I just thought it was a cute observation. Perhaps it's just me then? But either way, you've missed the point The9.

 

It doesn't have to be true, it's just part of the formula. I mean, does anyone know if alpine_saint really craves Mars Bars?

 

You simply pick a perceived weakness, and using equal measures of free-time, repetition, conviction, repetition, vitriol and repetition you make it true.

 

For example, instead of this rambling reply I could have just replied with:

 

Why don't you to **** off The9 and stop lauding it over everyone by telling us all how many goals you've scored recently.

 

I guess I filed away the fact that you play football having read one of your posts in the past, and I guess a little jealousy made me keep it in mind whenever I see your name. I no longer play you see, which I can tell you robbed veteran football of a pretty classy journeyman. Anyway, for the record I neither want you to **** off, nor stop mentioning it. I'm simply demonstrating the formula.

 

I guess you're proud (that's the weakness) of your footballing achievements and rightfully so, so that's a good place to start. Then, over the next several days I keep baiting the hook by taunting you with it, and attempt to get you to bite by replying to me. Ideally I'd get you to deny that you ever made such a claim, then I've got you.

 

I then simply keep throwing it in your face in lieu of rational argument during any debates I might have with you.

 

Imagine if a number of posters met every post of yours with that sort of response. I'm sure you're more than capable of handling that, but it would make debating difficult for you.

 

It's not clever, but it is effective in turning this forum into the polarised and fractured clique it has become - where "new" posters would need to have pretty thick skin to contribute...and you can see why. (see what I did there?)

 

Again, for the record I really do think that anger is the catalyst for CB Fry's use of the formula. What in the real world he is angry about, I don't know. I'd acknowledge the obvious - that this is just an opinion as I'm not an expert in such matters.

[Goatboy]

I just thought it was a cute observation. Perhaps it's just me then? But either way, you've missed the point The9.

 

It doesn't have to be true, it's just part of the formula. I mean, does anyone know if alpine_saint really craves Mars Bars?

 

You simply pick a perceived weakness, and using equal measures of free-time, repetition, conviction, repetition, vitriol and repetition you make it true.

 

For example, instead of this rambling reply I could have just replied with:

 

 

 

I guess I filed away the fact that you play football having read one of your posts in the past, and I guess a little jealousy made me keep it in mind whenever I see your name. I no longer play you see, which I can tell you robbed veteran football of a pretty classy journeyman. Anyway, for the record I neither want you to **** off, nor stop mentioning it. I'm simply demonstrating the formula.

 

I guess you're proud (that's the weakness) of your footballing achievements and rightfully so, so that's a good place to start. Then, over the next several days I keep baiting the hook by taunting you with it, and attempt to get you to bite by replying to me. Ideally I'd get you to deny that you ever made such a claim, then I've got you.

 

I then simply keep throwing it in your face in lieu of rational argument during any debates I might have with you.

 

Imagine if a number of posters met every post of yours with that sort of response. I'm sure you're more than capable of handling that, but it would make debating difficult for you.

 

It's not clever, but it is effective in turning this forum into the polarised and fractured clique it has become - where "new" posters would need to have pretty thick skin to contribute...and you can see why. (see what I did there?)

 

Again, for the record I really do think that anger is the catalyst for CB Fry's use of the formula. What in the real world he is angry about, I don't know. I'd acknowledge the obvious - that this is just an opinion as I'm not an expert in such matters.

 

Don't start on The9 Bletch, he'll get all Newport on your ass.

[saintbletch]

Saintbletch, if you have the time, maybe it would be good practice to re-read all of the diatribe's you have just posted, and then have a quick look at the first post I've quoted above. Your display pic is ridiculously appropriate, by the way!

 

Help me out Bechenham Saint, I'm not sure I follow your point.

 

I'm not being evasive here. I'm happy to discuss it with you, but I can't quite make the connection. Could you be a bit more explicit?

 

Are you suggesting that I come across as angry in the second post you quoted? I was aiming for pretentious and condescending (as usual).

[The9]

I just thought it was a cute observation. Perhaps it's just me then? But either way, you've missed the point The9.

 

It doesn't have to be true, it's just part of the formula. I mean, does anyone know if alpine_saint really craves Mars Bars?

 

You simply pick a perceived weakness, and using equal measures of free-time, repetition, conviction, repetition, vitriol and repetition you make it true.

 

For example, instead of this rambling reply I could have just replied with:

 

 

 

I guess I filed away the fact that you play football having read one of your posts in the past, and I guess a little jealousy made me keep it in mind whenever I see your name. I no longer play you see, which I can tell you robbed veteran football of a pretty classy journeyman. Anyway, for the record I neither want you to **** off, nor stop mentioning it. I'm simply demonstrating the formula.

 

I guess you're proud (that's the weakness) of your footballing achievements and rightfully so, so that's a good place to start. Then, over the next several days I keep baiting the hook by taunting you with it, and attempt to get you to bite by replying to me. Ideally I'd get you to deny that you ever made such a claim, then I've got you.

 

I then simply keep throwing it in your face in lieu of rational argument during any debates I might have with you.

 

Imagine if a number of posters met every post of yours with that sort of response. I'm sure you're more than capable of handling that, but it would make debating difficult for you.

 

It's not clever, but it is effective in turning this forum into the polarised and fractured clique it has become - where "new" posters would need to have pretty thick skin to contribute...and you can see why. (see what I did there?)

 

Again, for the record I really do think that anger is the catalyst for CB Fry's use of the formula. What in the real world he is angry about, I don't know. I'd acknowledge the obvious - that this is just an opinion as I'm not an expert in such matters.

 

Point well made and understood.

 

Slightly disturbing stalker notes though - even if I retired from proper football 11 years ago and completely from even sh1111tty football (read Internet FC games) in the summer.

[The9]

Don't start on The9 Bletch, he'll get all Newport on your ass.

 

My auntie went to school with Tony Pulis, don't you know?

[The9]

Oh and FWIW, wehen people said the thread had run its course earlier I didn't agree because I thought there was plenty of further discussion to be had. I'd say there probably wasn't, now we're down this cul-de-sac.

[Beckenham Saint]

Help me out Bechenham Saint, I'm not sure I follow your point.

 

I'm not being evasive here. I'm happy to discuss it with you, but I can't quite make the connection. Could you be a bit more explicit?

 

Are you suggesting that I come across as angry in the second post you quoted? I was aiming for pretentious and condescending (as usual).

 

I don't think anyone is coming across as angry, and to be honest, I find it difficult to imagine anyone seriously angry on an internet forum. You are coming across however, as boring...

[pap]

I don't think anyone is coming across as angry, and to be honest, I find it difficult to imagine anyone seriously angry on an internet forum. You are coming across however, as boring...

 

Ah, the gentle innocence of the seven month old poster.

[KingdomCome]

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding this thread, but to summarise it seems people think the board have been angry boring bullies who have been employing classic troll methodology.

[saintbletch]

It's me who is the angry one, right?

 

Yes it is, CB Fry and can I be the first one to say that I know how difficult those words were for you to write.

 

When I read them back, even now having read them a number of times, they still bring a lump to my throat.

 

Oh my God, it is me who is the angry one, right?

 

But, it's your use of the "right?" at the end that just about breaks my heart. It's those five, lonely little letters followed by the mark of self-interrogation that map the start of the journey through realisation, acceptance and on the road to recovery.

 

Remember that the first step to a cure is acknowledging that you've got the problem.

 

Well done mate.

 

BTW did anyone see just how angry CB Fry's post was before he edited it?

 

The TMS Anti-Bullying Alliance is offering a reward for anyone that saw it before he had second thoughts.

[saintbletch]

Point well made and understood.

 

Slightly disturbing stalker notes though - even if I retired from proper football 11 years ago and completely from even sh1111tty football (read Internet FC games) in the summer.

 

11 years, really? That just shows the depth of my jealousy, The9.

 

League of Wales wasn't it? (it was the Gay Boot's Newport reference that reminded me).

 

Did I ever tell you that I played for the Transfrig Gosport adult team at the age of 15 (I'm a big unit)? Or that I once scored a John Barnes-esque wonder goal against a Brazilian team in Florida? Oh and I also shuffled round Fleming Park in Eastleigh for 12 or so years.

 

I'm off to update your details on my ammunition spreadsheet with something more contemporary!

 

I don't think anyone is coming across as angry, and to be honest, I find it difficult to imagine anyone seriously angry on an internet forum. You are coming across however, as boring...

 

Boring? Ouch. I guess that's fair. See apology below.

 

BTW I still can't reconcile this post with your first post though. Is Travis Bickle boring?

 

Oh and FWIW, wehen people said the thread had run its course earlier I didn't agree because I thought there was plenty of further discussion to be had. I'd say there probably wasn't, now we're down this cul-de-sac.

 

I do apologise for taking the thread off-course in what I felt was the spirit of public service.

 

I hope my other earlier contributions show that I was attempting to contribute properly.

 

I'll stop now.

[The9]

11 years, really? That just shows the depth of my jealousy, The9.

 

League of Wales wasn't it? (it was the Gay Boot's Newport reference that reminded me).

 

Did I ever tell you that I played for the Transfrig Gosport adult team at the age of 15 (I'm a big unit)? Or that I once scored a John Barnes-esque wonder goal against a Brazilian team in Florida? Oh and I also shuffled round Fleming Park in Eastleigh for 12 or so years.

 

...

 

I'll stop now.

 

Equally, don't get me started.

[alpine_saint]

I'll stop now.

 

As you should. Your work is done.

 

And highly entertaining it has been too.

[Bearsy]

There is nowt as terrible as international break, when the common zeitgeist is redundant and bletch has nothing better to do, than troll CB Fry

[hutch]

Hey Bletch, will you do irene next please?

[pap]

There is nowt as terrible as international break, when the common zeitgeist is redundant and bletch has nothing better to do, than troll CB Fry

 

 

Bletch Trolls!

[saintbletch]

There is nowt as terrible as international break, when the common zeitgeist is redundant and bletch has nothing better to do, than troll CB Fry

 

Where've you been you great ursine lump? Toke said you'd been following young girls around an island somewhere, but then again Toke doesn't know his wife from his labradors.

 

I did see that you went to Reading Festival. FYI my daughter was there and if I found out that you went within 250 yards of her....well I guess I'll be becoming your Father-in-law! So then I'd be Toke's biological Dad and your Dad in law. A man really could want for two better sons. I mean that.

 

I must admit that it still feels a bit odd to be on the main board (note it's not bored now). It's full of lovely people who just want to get along with each other.

 

BTW did you fancy joining the TMS Anti-Bullying Alliance - codename Operation Teabag?

 

BTW2 we all found out the meaning of Breading in TMS while you were away. Batman came in and did a lunch and learn session for the muppets. It's was very informative, but it's not for me. Apparently my hair-trigger, gag-reflex is too finely tuned.

 

Hey Bletch, will you do irene next please?

 

I can't do this sort of thing to order hutch, I was pushed into a corner and as Swayze said - nobody puts Bletch in a corner.

 

Now gents if you will, back on topic please.

 

Post September One judgements please.

Edited 8 September, 2014 by saintbletch
Missing a article.

[pap]

Now that the dust is settling on this encounter, I'd like to offer my final thoughts, Jerry Springer style. I mean for them to be constructive.

 

I would have infinitely more respect for CB Fry's posts if he just demonstrated a bit of respect and restraint when making them. Too much of his input is of the "It is not enough that I succeed. Others must fail" school of thought, and I just don't see a decent reason for it. I genuinely think such an approach deters participation from would-be posters, and as such, isn't in the best interests of the site.

 

I get equally frustrated by a lot of the stuff I see on here, but have a reasonably active thoughts-to-posts filter going on. There will be plenty of times I think an opinion deserves a four-letter verbal accompaniment, but comparatively few where I write it down.

 

The huge shame of it is that when you chip away the insults, you see some very interesting posts from an obviously capable poster. CB Fry could have spent years acquiring the quiet respect of most people on here, which is a path I genuinely hope he takes, even though it'd do huge harm to my own range of reactionary responses

 

I did enjoy saintbletch's baiting here. The man is a master at defusing ticking time-bombs, although ironically, I think this might be the feistiest I've ever seen him. I'm trusting Tokes to keep an eye on him and make sure that he's not ripping raw meat apart and beating his chest, etc.

 

Whatever. Attitudes suitably quietened, there's a huge opportunity for a bit of harmony going forward. Dare we take it?

[Bearsy]

Where've you been you great ursine lump? Toke said you'd been following young girls around an island somewhere, but then again Toke doesn't know his wife from his labradors.

 

I did see that you went to Reading Festival. FYI my daughter was there and if I found out that you went within 250 yards of her....well I guess I'll be becoming your Father-in-law! So then I'd be Toke's biological Dad and your Dad in law. A man really could want for two better sons. I mean that.

 

I must admit that it still feels a bit odd to be on the main board (note it's not bored now). It's full of lovely people who just want to get along with each other.

 

BTW did you fancy joining the TMS Anti-Bullying Alliance - codename Operation Teabag?

 

BTW2 we all found out the meaning of Breading in TMS while you were away. Batman came in and did a lunch and learn session for the muppets. It's was very informative, but it's not for me. Apparently my hair-trigger, gag-reflex is too finely tuned.

 

 

 

I can't do this sort of thing to order hutch, I was pushed into a corner and as Swayze said - nobody puts Bletch in a corner.

 

Now gents if you will, back on topic please.

 

Post September One judgements please.

 

yeah i took a break from my regular activities to work on my import business, I am launching many rare & imported std's in the birmingham area initially and then I hope to expand nationwide. This is of small interest tho compared with the news that I missed the opportunity to sex your daughter at Reading festival FFS! I would love to sex your daughter! I deffo didn't tho, I mean I did sex one bird but it weren't your daughter, she didn't correct my grammar or troll my anger management issues or anything.

 

Specific concerns: Yes I have been non bullying on saintsweb since 2010! Except dumb bros like barry & tokyos obv. And no, I'm not v.caught up on everything yet so I haven't tried breading yet but i will try it with gf and let you know.

[Bearsy]

I did enjoy saintbletch's baiting here. The man is a master at defusing ticking time-bombs, although ironically, I think this might be the feistiest I've ever seen him. I'm trusting Tokes to keep an eye on him and make sure that he's not ripping raw meat apart and beating his chest, etc.

 

i initially thought he'd finally gone mental, then i realised what he was up to and i was like, lol.

[Frank's cousin]

i initially thought he'd finally gone mental, then i realised what he was up to and i was like, lol.

 

Right, can yous *****s (the effect of living in ... Scotsownland), intellectual bros, pokes, bear and Bletchley parks (70s prog album title there if ever there was one), now leave us juveniles alone to get on with our inane, inarticulate anger issues please. Seriously feck off back to muppetsville so that we can regain the lack of respect for each other, mutually wind up and generally be unpleasant again... Your injection of humour and good nature plus systematic taking apart of the soiled underpants that is Fry, is most unwelcome as it upsets the delicate balance of the forum universe..... I feel a 'drunken rant' laced with pompous opinion, and lacking appropriate syntax coming on.