The9 Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 Football inflation has been about 76% over the period I say it's, ooooh, about 1.3%, let's argue about something that's irrelevant to the pure values I was quoting.
Ken Tone Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 He's got all de vereld in his hands... It's a work in progress! catchy, but it does conjure up a rather unpleasant mental image! "we've got Al de weireld in our team" is a little less pornographic!
Saint George Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 At least it's not built on Cortese's castle of paper cups though, I mean that would be a disaster. That'll be the paper cups that just netted the Club a 90 odd million windfall from player sales, plus the hundreds of millions the Club have, and will be receiving for being in the premier league. Wonder where we'd be right now if Shaw, Lallana and Lovren had all been here on loan.
Saint_Abroad Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 That'll be the paper cups that just netted the Club a 90 odd million windfall from player sales, plus the hundreds of millions the Club have, and will be receiving for being in the premier league. Wonder where we'd be right now if Shaw, Lallana and Lovren had all been here on loan. Shaw and Lallana were here before Cortese.
ART Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 Comes across as a nice guy and think he will put a lot of effort into his game in order to impress. Shame we didn't manage to get Toby to sign a 5 year contract. Insisting on a loan comes across as Saints being used as a platform for him to sign up for "a bigger club" in the Premier League.. My fears were further enhanced when I read Toby shares the same birthday as Pochettino and Redknapp....... March 2nd.
The9 Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 That'll be the paper cups that just netted the Club a 90 odd million windfall from player sales, plus the hundreds of millions the Club have, and will be receiving for being in the premier league. Wonder where we'd be right now if Shaw, Lallana and Lovren had all been here on loan. Remind me of which of the current loan players we don't have an option to buy for?
Sakke Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 As a Belgian Saints supporter I can say this is a very good transfer. Alderweireld is a player who would fit perfectly in the PL. He played in the youth academies of Ajax (just as Vermaelen and Vertonghen), so he will become a revelation!
Saint_clark Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 Remind me of which of the current loan players we don't have an option to buy for? Option to buy doesn't mean they'll agree to sign permanently. That's the biggest worry for me, that these players on loan don't actually want to be here long term.
The9 Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 Option to buy doesn't mean they'll agree to sign permanently. That's the biggest worry for me, that these players on loan don't actually want to be here long term. It usually means it's in the contract already.
benjii Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 Option to buy doesn't mean they'll agree to sign permanently. That's the biggest worry for me, that these players on loan don't actually want to be here long term. Well, then it can't be an option. If it's not enforceable it's not an option.
The9 Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 (edited) Using the concept of U-18's pre-contracts as a basis (the idea being that it's a pre-contract to a permanent signing): http://www.lawinsport.com/blog/mills-reeve/item/pre-contracts-in-football The answer depends on basic principles of contract law: is there an offer, an acceptance, consideration, an intention to create legal relations and certainty of terms? Clearly, the aim of such pre-contractual agreements is to circumvent the legal issues, and the applicable regulations, by getting the player to enter into an agreement that attempts to satisfy the five basic elements for a contract. They set out the terms (the offer), have provision for the player’s signature (acceptance), often provide for a nominal payment (pounds sterling) of which the player acknowledges receipt (consideration), sets out the intended employment relationship (intention to create legal relations), and either contains the basic terms of the standard contract(s), or appends the standard contracts, post dated to when the parties intend them to take effect; thus potentially removing any possible “agreement to agree” arguments. Basically, the "option to buy" sets out the contract terms for the future contract (and fixes the transfer fee between the clubs), in the event that the club decides, unilaterally, that they want to take up that option. The player has already agreed to the terms, and the clubs have agreed the fee. The only reason not to take the option is if the player doesn't meet the standard required in which case the loaning club retains their registration - eg Osvaldo at Juventus last season coming back to Saints. Edited 2 September, 2014 by The9
sfc4prem Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 Option to buy doesn't mean they'll agree to sign permanently. That's the biggest worry for me, that these players on loan don't actually want to be here long term. Well it does, actually. It's a pre-contract agreement kinda ting.
Saint Charlie Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 Well it does, actually. It's a pre-contract agreement kinda ting. Its not. Its an agreed price between the clubs but no commitment needed from the player - if he decides to go elsewhere then there isnt a lot to stop him. End of the day, if we want him then we have an agreed price, but even then its still up to him where he decides to go. All this is premature though. He hasnt even shown he is worth the 6m yet.
jasonb Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 (edited) Option to buy doesn't mean they'll agree to sign permanently. That's the biggest worry for me, that these players on loan don't actually want to be here long term. I've given up being worried about football and even my emotional attachment is diminishing sadly. Possibly due to getting a bit older I suppose. Ergo, if Alderweireld turns out to be the 'real deal' then he definitely won't want to stay at Saints. If he is a 'good egg' he might sign on for another season with us with the proviso that he gets his move at the end of year two and Les gets his chance to shine once more by extracting tens of millions from any one of the top four. This is where I am at now with football. Hard economics. Oh but what a privileged position to be in eh? Oh forgot to embellish the above by saying this model has worked incredibly well for Ajax and latterly Athletico. Where as in years gone by Saints used to sell the crème and directors pocketed the fees, at least now we can see the cash going straight back into the team. Sustainability. I love it actually. Romance is long gone from football with the exception of the cups which I am sure Mr Koeman will take far more seriously than Pochawhatshisface. Edited 2 September, 2014 by jasonb
sadoldgit Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 I've given up being worried about football and even my emotional attachment is diminishing sadly. Possibly due to getting a bit older I suppose. Ergo, if Alderweireld turns out to be the 'real deal' then he definitely won't want to stay at Saints. If he is a 'good egg' he might sign on for another season with us with the proviso that he gets his move at the end of year two and Les gets his chance to shine once more by extracting tens of millions from any one of the top four. This is where I am at now with football. Hard economics. Oh but what a privileged position to be in eh? Oh forgot to embellish the above by saying this model has worked incredibly well for Ajax and latterly Athletico. Where as in years gone by Saints used to sell the crème and directors pocketed the fees, at least now we can see the cash going straight back into the team. Sustainability. I love it actually. Romance is long gone from football with the exception of the cups which I am sure Mr Koeman will take far more seriously than Pochawhatshisface. I share your feelings mate. All of this badge kissing nonsense is pathetic and we know most of the players really dont give a stuff and will kiss anything if the price is right. Long gone are the days of Terry Paine. MLT was an exception but even he would probably move on nowdays. Thungs have changed but a good cup run would be brilliant. What a chance we had last year!
cellone Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 I've given up being worried about football and even my emotional attachment is diminishing sadly. Possibly due to getting a bit older I suppose. Ergo, if Alderweireld turns out to be the 'real deal' then he definitely won't want to stay at Saints. If he is a 'good egg' he might sign on for another season with us with the proviso that he gets his move at the end of year two and Les gets his chance to shine once more by extracting tens of millions from any one of the top four. This is where I am at now with football. Hard economics. Oh but what a privileged position to be in eh? Oh forgot to embellish the above by saying this model has worked incredibly well for Ajax and latterly Athletico. Where as in years gone by Saints used to sell the crème and directors pocketed the fees, at least now we can see the cash going straight back into the team. Sustainability. I love it actually. Romance is long gone from football with the exception of the cups which I am sure Mr Koeman will take far more seriously than Pochawhatshisface. With you on that.
Batman Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 Well it does, actually. It's a pre-contract agreement kinda ting. as we have seen this summer, if a player really wants out, chances are he will get it at any club
Patrick Bateman Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 I think I love this guy already. His massive smile when talking about Tadic and Pelle and that we'd taken the best players from the league - love it - couldn't care less or not if it's not true, I got a warm and fuzzy.
davefizzy14 Posted 2 September, 2014 Posted 2 September, 2014 This is a big name signing for me! Welcome onboard Toby.
hutch Posted 3 September, 2014 Posted 3 September, 2014 Definitely the biggest name in the squad. Even if you count the hyphens.
Doctoroncall Posted 3 September, 2014 Posted 3 September, 2014 I've given up being worried about football and even my emotional attachment is diminishing sadly. Possibly due to getting a bit older I suppose. Ergo, if Alderweireld turns out to be the 'real deal' then he definitely won't want to stay at Saints. If he is a 'good egg' he might sign on for another season with us with the proviso that he gets his move at the end of year two and Les gets his chance to shine once more by extracting tens of millions from any one of the top four. This is where I am at now with football. Hard economics. Oh but what a privileged position to be in eh? Oh forgot to embellish the above by saying this model has worked incredibly well for Ajax and latterly Athletico. Where as in years gone by Saints used to sell the crème and directors pocketed the fees, at least now we can see the cash going straight back into the team. Sustainability. I love it actually. Romance is long gone from football with the exception of the cups which I am sure Mr Koeman will take far more seriously than Pochawhatshisface. Nicely put and agree with that. If the club can invest the revenue generated wisely, the team can continue to progress and depending on how other teams spend their money the Saints could climb the table or have a better chance of a cup run/win. Much then rests on the scouting and academy departments to deliver.
Ken Tone Posted 3 September, 2014 Posted 3 September, 2014 Don't want to start an argument, but can anyone clarify for certain which of the interpretations of 'option to buy' is correct? Does it (a) just mean that the 2 clubs have agreed a fee in advance and the potential buying club can decide whether to go ahead IF the player agrees to terms etc, or (b) not only have the clubs agreed but also the player has agreed in advance and MUST sign if the buying club wants him?
Saint IQ Posted 3 September, 2014 Posted 3 September, 2014 I've given up being worried about football and even my emotional attachment is diminishing sadly. Possibly due to getting a bit older I suppose. Ergo, if Alderweireld turns out to be the 'real deal' then he definitely won't want to stay at Saints. If he is a 'good egg' he might sign on for another season with us with the proviso that he gets his move at the end of year two and Les gets his chance to shine once more by extracting tens of millions from any one of the top four. This is where I am at now with football. Hard economics. Oh but what a privileged position to be in eh? Oh forgot to embellish the above by saying this model has worked incredibly well for Ajax and latterly Athletico. Where as in years gone by Saints used to sell the crème and directors pocketed the fees, at least now we can see the cash going straight back into the team. Sustainability. I love it actually. Romance is long gone from football with the exception of the cups which I am sure Mr Koeman will take far more seriously than Pochawhatshisface. I wouldn't be so sure, if we have a great season finishing top 8 again, win a cup and get into Europe I'd wouldn't bet against him signing for us. His last season shows that what he wants most is to play week in week out, won la liga and played in a CL final but still wasn't totally happy being there.
saint si Posted 3 September, 2014 Posted 3 September, 2014 Number 75 in the best footballers in the world 2013 (according to the Guardian)... http://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2013/dec/100-greatest-footballers-2013 Hopefully he'll fare better than Mayuka
Lazlo78 Posted 3 September, 2014 Posted 3 September, 2014 Apologies if this is a repost, but here is how to pronounce his name! [video=youtube;hS-94qxYA5U]
The9 Posted 3 September, 2014 Posted 3 September, 2014 Its not. Its an agreed price between the clubs but no commitment needed from the player - if he decides to go elsewhere then there isnt a lot to stop him. End of the day, if we want him then we have an agreed price, but even then its still up to him where he decides to go. All this is premature though. He hasnt even shown he is worth the 6m yet. He has already committed to the future contract and all the terms of it, including remuneration, in order for the clubs to be in the position to agree to the future transfer (assuming Saints still want to). It's almost certainly enshrined in his loan contract for this season, for the convenience of not having to redraft the agreement.
sadoldgit Posted 3 September, 2014 Posted 3 September, 2014 I am not sure why this need to worry about whether the guy will stay or not! Why not enjoy him while he is here and worry about that at the end of the season? Blimey, isnt there enough cr*p to worry about in the world today?
buctootim Posted 3 September, 2014 Posted 3 September, 2014 Number 75 in the best footballers in the world 2013 (according to the Guardian)... http://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2013/dec/100-greatest-footballers-2013 Hopefully he'll fare better than Mayuka I know these 'top 100' things are carp - but still its good to see him in there when the players we've lost aren't.
Saint Rees Posted 3 September, 2014 Posted 3 September, 2014 His name will fit into the Viafara song Toby Alder-wei-reld, duh duh duh duh duh
buctootim Posted 3 September, 2014 Posted 3 September, 2014 Apologies if this is a repost, but here is how to pronounce his name! Such a reliable source, after all he was spot on with the rarely heard Ashley Cole
St Chalet Posted 3 September, 2014 Posted 3 September, 2014 From a Belgian colleague when asked about him: ”he is brilliant, don't understand what he is doing with Southampton”
Lazlo78 Posted 3 September, 2014 Posted 3 September, 2014 Such a reliable source, after all he was spot on with the rarely heard Ashley Cole
SW5 SAINT Posted 3 September, 2014 Posted 3 September, 2014 Such a reliable source, after all he was spot on with the rarely heard Ashley Cole You get Ryan Bertrand as well, with a couple of clicks.
Toadhall Saint Posted 13 September, 2014 Posted 13 September, 2014 So how was this fellow? Initial thoughts - better than my heads in Liverpool Loren
S-Clarke Posted 13 September, 2014 Posted 13 September, 2014 He's a Lovren level player. Fully prepared for him to only be here for the year.
doddisalegend Posted 13 September, 2014 Posted 13 September, 2014 So how was this fellow? Thought he was absolute quality, early days, but looked just as good as Lovern (perhaps even better) nothing flash but did the simple stuff well and never looked in trouble all afternoon. Clearly he will have harder tests then Newcastle but the signs are good I reckon.
doddisalegend Posted 13 September, 2014 Posted 13 September, 2014 He's a Lovren level player. Fully prepared for him to only be here for the year. Did we not get a "to buy" option on toby at the end of the loan or was that only Ryan?
Batman Posted 13 September, 2014 Posted 13 September, 2014 Did we not get a "to buy" option on toby at the end of the loan or was that only Ryan? We do, but toby has said that it is a fairly complicated situation and there is a chance he may return to Madrid
S-Clarke Posted 13 September, 2014 Posted 13 September, 2014 Did we not get a "to buy" option on toby at the end of the loan or was that only Ryan? There's a chance to buy, but I'm sure if he has a storming season here then he's going to get some fairly bigger suitors than us! Enjoy him whilst he's here.
beatlesaint Posted 13 September, 2014 Posted 13 September, 2014 We do, but toby has said that it is a fairly complicated situation and there is a chance he may return to Madrid IF they want him yes. They seem to be doing ok without and hopefully they will want to spend our money elsewhere cos he looked good........or if his parent club are reading this - he was ok, nothing special
doddisalegend Posted 13 September, 2014 Posted 13 September, 2014 We do, but toby has said that it is a fairly complicated situation and there is a chance he may return to Madrid There's a chance to buy, but I'm sure if he has a storming season here then he's going to get some fairly bigger suitors than us! Enjoy him whilst he's here. OK Cheers I thought we had first refusal on him ....... oh well Florin Gardos looked like a big unit when he came on.
Saint Jude Posted 13 September, 2014 Posted 13 September, 2014 thought he was solid today and showed alot of quality.. if you want to be really picky... he went up for a corner in second half and was very slow to get back... whilst at same time Fonte busted a gut to get back... but that's being pretty picky... and it's his first premier league game...
Manuel Posted 13 September, 2014 Posted 13 September, 2014 In a perfect world we'd have two Fonte's at centreback.
SuperSAINT Posted 13 September, 2014 Posted 13 September, 2014 There's a chance to buy, but I'm sure if he has a storming season here then he's going to get some fairly bigger suitors than us! Enjoy him whilst he's here. Pretty much this. Going to enjoy watching him this year - was an absolute coup to land him IMO.
Saint_clark Posted 13 September, 2014 Posted 13 September, 2014 Thought he went about his business quietly and effectively. Got completely done by Newcastles number 17 at one point - nutmegs and everything - but other than that nothing got past him all game.
Smirking_Saint Posted 14 September, 2014 Posted 14 September, 2014 Looked calm, collected and classy. Played a lovely ball to long that culminated him getting punched in the face should of been a pen though. Hit one or two too many long balls for me. But Im not holding that against him as it was after all his debut. Really chuffed to have him, if he carries on we wont miss Lovren
Roger Posted 14 September, 2014 Posted 14 September, 2014 There's a chance to buy, but I'm sure if he has a storming season here then he's going to get some fairly bigger suitors than us! Enjoy him whilst he's here. Wouldn't put anything past koeman tbh. The guy just seems to be able to do anything.
spyinthesky Posted 14 September, 2014 Posted 14 September, 2014 OK Cheers I thought we had first refusal on him ....... oh well Florin Gardos looked like a big unit when he came on. Toby A had a decent debut against poor opposition but looks to have something about him Only concern for me at the moment is that we have 4 predominantly right footed central defenders but then again Jos (good win in new colours at Cardiff yesterday) and Danny Seabourn were left footers but not up to the rigours of the Prem so perhaps I am being unduly picky.
S-Clarke Posted 14 September, 2014 Posted 14 September, 2014 Wouldn't put anything past koeman tbh. The guy just seems to be able to do anything. He's got a great pull, a much bigger pull that MP had. I'm sure Koeman was pretty much the number 1 reason he's here as it is.
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