Van Gaal or Koeman? Which great Dutch manager would you prefer?

[SaintRobbie]

I guess I prefer humility over arrogance.

 

I guess we have the man for English football.

 

Would you trade Koeman for VG?

[hypochondriac]

Why are people staying these ridiculously premature threads? It is miles too early to tell.

[Saints foreva]

[JxgrSaint]

Christ, I'd prefer Davey Moyeshh to Louis Van Gaal! He had a worse team, less money to spend and a more difficult start but managed more points. So yes, Koeman looks like a great appointment so far, unlike Van Gaal...

[DuncanRG]

Erm, yes. I would swap Koeman for Van Gaal.

[SNSUN]

I like Koeman like I liked Adkins, both seem to be nice chaps. :-) van Gaal? Grump.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Erm, yes. I would swap Koeman for Van Gaal.

 

Why?

[SaintRobbie]

Why are people staying these ridiculously premature threads? It is miles too early to tell.

 

Is it? Who would you prefer right now?

[sadoldgit]

It is far too early to say who will be the biggest success in the Premiership but as a manage and human being I am more than happy with our guy.

[hypochondriac]

Is it? Who would you prefer right now?

 

I haven't seen enough of either and how they will adapt to English football to give an opinion of it.

[mitch01]

I don't think it's premature to say that Van Gaal will almost certainly achieve more in the Premier League than Ronald Koeman. From what I've seen so far I like RK a lot, but his record doesn't compare to Van Gaal, who, whether you like him or not, has achieved a massive amount as a manager.

[sadoldgit]

I don't think it's premature to say that Van Gaal will almost certainly achieve more in the Premier League than Ronald Koeman. From what I've seen so far I like RK a lot, but his record doesn't compare to Van Gaal, who, whether you like him or not, has achieved a massive amount as a manager.

 

He certainly has more resources at his disposal, but then so did Moyes and we all know how well that worked.

[The Majestic Channon]

Is it? Who would you prefer right now?

Right now? next game ? daft thread that could change week to week .

[cobbysouth]

Are you saying van gaal will achieve more solely because hes at united. I'm not sure which would be better. Its impossible to know because theyre never going to both be managing under the exact same circumstances but theres an interview with zlatan ibrahimovic about having gaal as a manager and koeman as the assitant manager. Zlatan said him and most of the squad hated gaal but koeman was nice and smart and experienced. Zlatan said gaal and koeman didnt get on. That gaal saw players as stats rather than people and they both viewed football very differently. Has anyone else seen this? I'll see if I can find it.

[cobbysouth]

Cant find the one I originally read but this is fairly similar just not as detailed http://screamer.deadspin.com/that-one-time-zlatan-ibrahimovic-threw-shade-at-dutch-b-1597934952

[van Hanegem]

van Gaal is the more experienced manager/coach who has proven himself not only with with big clubs like Ajax (winner Champions League in '95), Barcelona and Bayern Munich but also with a club like AZ Akmaar who became Dutch champions with van Gaal. To become champion with the mentioned big clubs might not look like something remarkable but you must consider that van Gaal is not your avarage manager, he has developed a vision on football which involves all parts of a footballclub. From the youth academy to the maintenance of the pitch and so on, van Gaal wants control of it all and if there's one man who can turn around things at Old Trafford, it's him. His problem is just that he's a total a*s when it comes to criticism from the media and that he has problems with owners/boardmembers when they don't listen to them (for example at Munich). But when he gets enough time and support he will succeed.

 

Koeman can only dream of the achievements of van Gaal but I don't believe that he will even do that. After his success at Ajax and PSV Eindhoven he clearly failed at Valencia and AZ Alkmaar and his reputation went down the hill. This changed with Feyenoord and I believe that he has found the way to be happy with his job by not thinking about how to become manager of Barcelona (his big dream) but enjoying working with players who could learn from his experience as a former player and to get results by making a team better. Koeman is a decent chap with a relaxed attitude but don't get fooled by this, he is a winner and players who don't deliver may have a problem with him. Koeman doesn't hesitate to name them in the press and nowadays not everyone can deal with that...

 

If I had to choose between van Gaal and Koeman for Saints I believe Koeman is the right man given the circumstances though van Gaal would bring the club to the next level...

[a1ex2001]

I guess I prefer humility over arrogance.

 

I guess we have the man for English football.

 

Would you trade Koeman for VG?

 

Koeman for me simply because we don 't have the players for LVG's three at the back setup and he seems incapable of recognising a similar situation at United.

[KMondo]

van Gaal is the more experienced manager/coach who has proven himself not only with with big clubs like Ajax (winner Champions League in '95), Barcelona and Bayern Munich but also with a club like AZ Akmaar who became Dutch champions with van Gaal. To become champion with the mentioned big clubs might not look like something remarkable but you must consider that van Gaal is not your avarage manager, he has developed a vision on football which involves all parts of a footballclub. From the youth academy to the maintenance of the pitch and so on, van Gaal wants control of it all and if there's one man who can turn around things at Old Trafford, it's him. His problem is just that he's a total a*s when it comes to criticism from the media and that he has problems with owners/boardmembers when they don't listen to them (for example at Munich). But when he gets enough time and support he will succeed.

 

Koeman can only dream of the achievements of van Gaal but I don't believe that he will even do that. After his success at Ajax and PSV Eindhoven he clearly failed at Valencia and AZ Alkmaar and his reputation went down the hill. This changed with Feyenoord and I believe that he has found the way to be happy with his job by not thinking about how to become manager of Barcelona (his big dream) but enjoying working with players who could learn from his experience as a former player and to get results by making a team better. Koeman is a decent chap with a relaxed attitude but don't get fooled by this, he is a winner and players who don't deliver may have a problem with him. Koeman doesn't hesitate to name them in the press and nowadays not everyone can deal with that...

 

If I had to choose between van Gaal and Koeman for Saints I believe Koeman is the right man given the circumstances though van Gaal would bring the club to the next level...

 

Great post.

[doddisalegend]

I'm pretty sure Man U will finish higher up the table than us. Koeman looks like he will be a good fit for us and we will do OK with him at the helm but lets face it once Van Gaal gets his sh it together Man U will be well above us.

[stug76]

Why are people staying these ridiculously premature threads? It is miles too early to tell.

Would you say that's reflective of your opinions on Saints during the summer?

[doddisalegend]

Would you say that's reflective of your opinions on Saints during the summer?

 

:lol:

[DuncanRG]

Why?

 

Because Louis Van Gaal is demonstrably one of the best managers in the world. If you're going to try and judge him on four games at United then it's worth considering that Southampton don't suffer from the dysfunctional structure and hideous transfer approach that Man Utd do at the moment.

 

A poster above makes a fair point about us not having the players to fit his system, but we all know that United tried and failed to get the right players, just as they have for the last four or five years. We wouldn't have the same problems getting players in because we are - by the looks of things - willing to accept slightly inflated prices to get deals done.

[SaintRobbie]

Great post.

 

Agreed. Especially the piece on van Gaals versus the media. I think VG will fail because of this. He is simply too arrogant for the British media. Where Alex Ferguson and Mourino often batter the media, they were proven in the PL and more often than not gave the media something back. VG doesn't seem to.

 

If he continues to lose games (and he will this season) the British media will destroy VG in my opinion.

 

We have the better manager for the PL. We just need to ensure our Boardroom support him.

[SaintRobbie]

Kammy on goals on Sunday revealing how good Koeman seems to be with the media compared to VG.

 

Clearly impressed by Koeman.

[Kingsland Red]

I'm just working my way through the autobiography of Van Gaal , by Maarten Meijer, picked up at an airport and not a flowing read, having been translated from Dutch.

Van Gaal seems to like to build a team around hungry younger players ( 20-23 years old) making a name for themselves in the game; rather than the established 'names' he believes the media focus upon. However, if a player (like Arjen Robben) is prepared to match the work of the youngsters then they will be included.

This is hardly the Manure philosophy.

He built Ajax in the mid 1990s on this basis and then started the renowned Barcelona's youth system progression into the first team, but was then sacked from Ajax as Technical Director when the board stood behind the first team coach - one Ronald Koeman.

[lordswoodsaints]

I dont think vg will be given as much time to establish himself as koeman will be given,if I'm honest vg looks a bit out of his depth and is trying to play a system that is gonna fail at united

[DuncanRG]

if I'm honest vg looks a bit out of his depth

 

Yeah, I really think he found his level winning everything there is in three different countries and taking Holland to third place in the World Cup

[Saint IQ]

I'd rather have Koeman because not only does Van Gaal seem like an arrongant c**t, he's only had success with the big teams whereas Koeman's last Job was a very similar situation to what he came into here. Koeman is a far better fit for us.

[saint michael]

van Gaal is the more experienced manager/coach who has proven himself not only with with big clubs like Ajax (winner Champions League in '95), Barcelona and Bayern Munich but also with a club like AZ Akmaar who became Dutch champions with van Gaal. To become champion with the mentioned big clubs might not look like something remarkable but you must consider that van Gaal is not your avarage manager, he has developed a vision on football which involves all parts of a footballclub. From the youth academy to the maintenance of the pitch and so on, van Gaal wants control of it all and if there's one man who can turn around things at Old Trafford, it's him. His problem is just that he's a total a*s when it comes to criticism from the media and that he has problems with owners/boardmembers when they don't listen to them (for example at Munich). But when he gets enough time and support he will succeed.

 

Koeman can only dream of the achievements of van Gaal but I don't believe that he will even do that. After his success at Ajax and PSV Eindhoven he clearly failed at Valencia and AZ Alkmaar and his reputation went down the hill. This changed with Feyenoord and I believe that he has found the way to be happy with his job by not thinking about how to become manager of Barcelona (his big dream) but enjoying working with players who could learn from his experience as a former player and to get results by making a team better. Koeman is a decent chap with a relaxed attitude but don't get fooled by this, he is a winner and players who don't deliver may have a problem with him. Koeman doesn't hesitate to name them in the press and nowadays not everyone can deal with that...

 

If I had to choose between van Gaal and Koeman for Saints I believe Koeman is the right man given the circumstances though van Gaal would bring the club to the next level...

 

 

Thanks for the insight. It's interesting watching them both. Ronald was very open yesterday when he said west ham are not a very good team. Has already ruffled lambert at Aston villa and can see him doing more of that. I like the fact that he doesn't hide or walk away from delivering hard messages

[JxgrSaint]

I'm pretty sure Man U will finish higher up the table than us. Koeman looks like he will be a good fit for us and we will do OK with him at the helm but lets face it once Van Gaal gets his sh it together Man U will be well above us.

 

Yeah but their first team line up cost over £300m while ours cost £61m (yesterday's with Gardos replacing Yoshida), which is what they just spent on a winger!

Edited 31 August, 2014 by JxgrSaint

[JxgrSaint]

Because Louis Van Gaal is demonstrably one of the best managers in the world. If you're going to try and judge him on four games at United then it's worth considering that Southampton don't suffer from the dysfunctional structure and hideous transfer approach that Man Utd do at the moment.

 

A poster above makes a fair point about us not having the players to fit his system, but we all know that United tried and failed to get the right players, just as they have for the last four or five years. We wouldn't have the same problems getting players in because we are - by the looks of things - willing to accept slightly inflated prices to get deals done.

 

So are United - £60m for Di Maria, £30m for Shaw, £25m for Herrera are all significantly more than their "market value"

[sadoldgit]

Agreed. Especially the piece on van Gaals versus the media. I think VG will fail because of this. He is simply too arrogant for the British media. Where Alex Ferguson and Mourino often batter the media, they were proven in the PL and more often than not gave the media something back. VG doesn't seem to.

 

If he continues to lose games (and he will this season) the British media will destroy VG in my opinion.

 

We have the better manager for the PL. We just need to ensure our Boardroom support him.

 

We????? What do you plan to do? Hold Kat hostage and only let her go at the end of the season if the Board "support" the man they emplyed to run the club in the first place???

[DuncanRG]

So are United - £60m for Di Maria, £30m for Shaw, £25m for Herrera are all significantly more than their "market value"

 

But those aren't the deals they've needed to get done. Good as those three are, it's been another miserable window for them. It's oversimplifying to say they failed to get players like Kroos, Fabregas and Hummels just because they didn't pay the premium and get on with it, but that naivety certainly helped.

[hypochondriac]

We????? What do you plan to do? Hold Kat hostage and only let her go at the end of the season if the Board "support" the man they emplyed to run the club in the first place???

 

Morgan wasn't sold due to the reaction of the fans. They can clearly make a difference.

[Whitey Grandad]

Morgan wasn't sold due to the reaction of the fans. They can clearly make a difference.

 

We can't possibly know that, I doubt it made the slightest difference.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Morgan wasn't sold due to the reaction of the fans. They can clearly make a difference.

 

We can't possibly know that, I doubt it made the slightest difference.

 

Whitey mate he says that because he hates the board and cannot be seen to give them any credit at all.

Doubt he really believes that fans can have that kind of influence..

[Charlie Wayman]

I haven't seen enough of either and how they will adapt to English football to give an opinion of it.

 

..which is then your opinion, "too early tell".

 

Silence is golden

[Professor]

We can't possibly know that, I doubt it made the slightest difference.

You are entitled to your opinion that fan's protests did not cause the board to announce that Schneiderlin would not be sold but there is evidence to the contrary in press reports at the time about the St Mary's phones being jammed by fans wanting their season ticket money back. There was also considerable negative feedback in the media from the player sales, some of it from general football pundits but some from journalists who also happened to be Saint's fans. At the same time there was almost universal welcoming of the appointment of Koeman.

 

Comparing RK to Van Gaal, just because they are both Dutch seems a rather pointless exercise. In the longer term, managers are judged on results but it is widely accepted that 7 clubs in the Premier League have substantially greater financial resources that the rest so those seven tend to be compared as a separate group, which does not include our club. David Moyes achieved a higher Prem finish than Pochettino but was regarded as bottom of the league of 7 and although his club finished 8 points above ours, he was regarded as a failure and Pochettino was not. With only three premier games having been played there are no reliable performance statistics on which to base judgements but on what we see of them in the media, and what we saw of Pochettino last year, I would be comfortable with any of them as Saint's manager but Koeman comes across as likeable, honest and most importantly, competent, so personally, I'm very content.

[jjsaint]

Van Gaal looks like the chap from Eraserhead. So, no thanks.

[John B]

 

If I had to choose between van Gaal and Koeman for Saints I believe Koeman is the right man given the circumstances though van Gaal would bring the club to the next level...

 

I think anybody who spent £200m with high wages could get us to the next level

 

But to answer the Question I think Koeman is the right person to be at SFC at the moment as we start with a 'new' team he has settled in well

[Ohio Saint]

VG is a good pick for manure, RK was an excellent pick for us. Switch those picks, and you could easily have two bad picks.

[Saint IQ]

You are entitled to your opinion that fan's protests did not cause the board to announce that Schneiderlin would not be sold but there is evidence to the contrary in press reports at the time about the St Mary's phones being jammed by fans wanting their season ticket money back. There was also considerable negative feedback in the media from the player sales, some of it from general football pundits but some from journalists who also happened to be Saint's fans. At the same time there was almost universal welcoming of the appointment of Koeman.

 

Comparing RK to Van Gaal, just because they are both Dutch seems a rather pointless exercise. In the longer term, managers are judged on results but it is widely accepted that 7 clubs in the Premier League have substantially greater financial resources that the rest so those seven tend to be compared as a separate group, which does not include our club. David Moyes achieved a higher Prem finish than Pochettino but was regarded as bottom of the league of 7 and although his club finished 8 points above ours, he was regarded as a failure and Pochettino was not. With only three premier games having been played there are no reliable performance statistics on which to base judgements but on what we see of them in the media, and what we saw of Pochettino last year, I would be comfortable with any of them as Saint's manager but Koeman comes across as likeable, honest and most importantly, competent, so personally, I'm very content.

 

7 clubs? Everton aren't exactly rolling in money. Just pushing above their weight.

[van Hanegem]

I'm just working my way through the autobiography of Van Gaal , by Maarten Meijer, picked up at an airport and not a flowing read, having been translated from Dutch.

Van Gaal seems to like to build a team around hungry younger players ( 20-23 years old) making a name for themselves in the game; rather than the established 'names' he believes the media focus upon. However, if a player (like Arjen Robben) is prepared to match the work of the youngsters then they will be included.

This is hardly the Manure philosophy.

He built Ajax in the mid 1990s on this basis and then started the renowned Barcelona's youth system progression into the first team, but was then sacked from Ajax as Technical Director when the board stood behind the first team coach - one Ronald Koeman.

 

When this autobiography is written like van Gaal speaks English, I can understand it's not a flowing read... It is true that van Gaal prefers younger players because it's easier to work with them, usually the established 'names' have a bigger ego and are not that willing to sacrifice themselves for the team like van Gaal demands. With Holland at the WC he managed to do right this with Robben, van Persie and Sneijder who worked their as*ses of for the younger and unexperienced teammates (I believe Robben's avarage distance was 11 kilometer per game) and though his 5-3-2 system was no fun to watch at all and totally opposed to Dutch standards, I have to admit that he worked well with the big names in his squad. I thougt it was quite remarkable that he used the system Koeman played a couple of times with Feyenoord (because of the inexperienced defenders at Feyenoord) because he and Koeman are not on speaking terms since their row at Ajax. Besides that, pompous a*s that he is, van Gaal looks at Koeman as an inferior manager/coach. Can't wait to see the game against ManU!

 

@saint michael

Us dutchmen are known for being a little to blunt or open in our dialogue, Koeman is a typical example of this, just like Cruyff and van Gaal. But Paul Lambert is a wan*ker off course...

 

@John B

I wasn't talking money when I said that van Gaal would get Saints to the next level.

[Saint IQ]

I'd rather have Koeman because not only does Van Gaal seem like an arrongant c**t, he's only had success with the big teams whereas Koeman's last Job was a very similar situation to what he came into here. Koeman is a far better fit for us.

 

I was right

[VectisSaint]

I was right

As was everyone else who commented, with one (or maybe two at a push) exception(s).