For the good of football, the plundering of players should be stopped

[whelk]

Cancel all types of loan. That would reduce the bloated squads of the mega rich and put a few more decent players into the "just about affordable at a pinch" pool.

 

And scrap the transfer windows. If a player's head moves to Liverpool in March he might as well take his feet with him.

 

Both are doable and would in my opinion improve the competitiveness of the league.

 

Totally agree. Loans are ridiculous these days. Chelsea 27 players out on loan and using strategically to increase value and compete only against their opposition. eg Lukaku

 

Player like him and Courtois probably wouldn't sign knowing they wouldn't get games but irrelevant as can get the payday and end upped loaned to CL winners.

[david in sweden]

Totally agree. Loans are ridiculous these days. Chelsea 27 players out on loan and using strategically to increase value and compete only against their opposition. eg Lukaku

 

Player like him and Courtois probably wouldn't sign knowing they wouldn't get games but irrelevant as can get the payday and end upped loaned to CL winners.

 

 

oh you also had that thought?

Their PL opponents are playing two Chelsea sides. The regular PL one, and those other talents scattered around other clubs with the same task. Sturridge did a pretty good job, didn't he.

[angelman]

So, a league where pretty much only two teams can ever win the league (with occasional Atleticos) is more competitive than one where five can? Riiiight.

 

You put up a great post which cuts to the heart of the bulls h it hypocrisy in this debate.

 

Plenty of grizzling about how jolly terrible money is and how the game is ruined by horrible money. But typically, as above, this is expressed by belly aching about how we can't access the champions league, which happens to the most lucrative international club competition in world sport.

 

Get the feeling most wouldn't be complaining if we were in the Champions League and had access to that filthy money ruining the game.

 

You seem to have a rather fanciful idea about how level the playing field is in the PL. Sure there is a group detached from the rest, as there is in Spain, Germany and many other leagues. The English group might consist of more teams than other leagues, but that hardly makes it more level. In the past 10 years, 3 teams have won the Premier League (and this is with Man City being no where 10 years ago, and now that Utd might be in the wilderness....). In the past 10 years 3 teams have won La Liga. Germany is slightly better with 4 teams having won it in the past decade. Serie A has had 3 winners. Actually Seria A and La Liga are similar in that two teams (Juve and Inter) have won all but 1 title.

 

But what really is the aim of most clubs? Realistic ones? Sure we would all love to win the league, but that's not very realistic and the first goal is European football specifically the CL. From that angle, then Spain offers more opportunities by virtue of more teams qualifying. In the past decade, our CL spots have been filled by...

 

Arsenal x10

Chelsea x10

Man Utd x9

Liverpool x5

Man City x4

Spurs x1

Everton x1

 

In recent years, Man City replaced Liverpool to make it a quartet of Man C/U, Arsenal & Chelsea. Up until last season, Man C and Liverpool had never both finished in the CL spots. Now things might have slightly shifted and Liverpool come back into the frame and replace Man U - but for how long? So I disagree that with you that there are 5 times that can win PL, but would agree that there are 5 teams that are competing year in year out for the 4 CL spots. Of course there is the occasional interloper - like Atletico winning La Liga, or Spurs & Everton finishing in the CL spots - but in reality the PL is hardly better than any other league, althogh granted, it has one or two more teams that "block off" the top spots.

 

And it isn't bellyaching. I would love the CL to disappear in it's current form and return it to how it used to be. European nights used to be something to look forward to, but now they are far too commonplace and is to serve the same teams year in year out. Sure I would love to follow Saints in Europe, and being realistic we have no chance of that (and I don't mean the Europa League). Which comes back to if there is a competition that ¾ of the participants have no (or little) chance of gaining access to the next tier up, what is the point? Do you not think that something needs changing? While it might be detrimental to the ¼ that can and do make it to the next tier, is the game being run to benefit the minority or the majority? That is slightly rhetorical, and probably should have been phrased, "should the game be run for the minority or the majority?". And if the CL serves the same teams ad nauseam, piling more riches upon them, then the PL is going to get ever more distorted, rendering it ever more uneven a playing field. The top 5 or 7 is pretty much a closed shop now, and it isn't going to open up any time soon. So, feel free to call it bellyaching, me, I'm just being pragmatic and looking at a broken "sport" that serves no one save for the minority.

 

But I guess it's all about what you want from football. I would love to see Norwich, Ipswich, Forest embark on a European adventure rather than the same 4/5 clubs, year in, year out. But the powers that be seem content to let market forces rule and not interfere. I am not a Rugby Union fan, but I imagine that they might have had half an eye on the PL and football and seen what path it had gone down and decided to interfere rather than let market force create these chasms. The final nail will be when clubs will be allowed to negotiate their own TV rights. I can imagine that that will soon be on the horizon.

Edited 29 August, 2014 by angelman

[alpine_saint]

European football's destiny is in completely the wrong hands. Platini confirmed that yesterday with his complete capitulation in the battle for the future direction of world football to Blatter. I didnt realise just how bent the seeding/draw for the CL was until I read Martin Samuel's article today. Arsenal get away with murder; it must be the French Connection....

 

The gap between the big boys, already massive due to the FFP (or should that be FUP, Financial Unfair Play) rules, is going to get far, far worse. 85-90 of the teams in the professional levels of English football are going to be reduced to hoping for an "MK Dons" moment to come along once in a blue moon...

[CB Fry]

You seem to have a rather fanciful idea about how level the playing field is in the PL. Sure there is a group detached from the rest, as there is in Spain, Germany and many other leagues. The English group might consist of more teams than other leagues, but that hardly makes it more level. In the past 10 years, 3 teams have won the Premier League (and this is with Man City being no where 10 years ago, and now that Utd might be in the wilderness....). In the past 10 years 3 teams have won La Liga. Germany is slightly better with 4 teams having won it in the past decade. Serie A has had 3 winners. Actually Seria A and La Liga are similar in that two teams (Juve and Inter) have won all but 1 title.

 

But what really is the aim of most clubs? Realistic ones? Sure we would all love to win the league, but that's not very realistic and the first goal is European football specifically the CL. From that angle, then Spain offers more opportunities by virtue of more teams qualifying. In the past decade, our CL spots have been filled by...

 

Arsenal x10

Chelsea x10

Man Utd x9

Liverpool x5

Man City x4

Spurs x1

Everton x1

 

In recent years, Man City replaced Liverpool to make it a quartet of Man C/U, Arsenal & Chelsea. Up until last season, Man C and Liverpool had never both finished in the CL spots. Now things might have slightly shifted and Liverpool come back into the frame and replace Man U - but for how long? So I disagree that with you that there are 5 times that can win PL, but would agree that there are 5 teams that are competing year in year out for the 4 CL spots. Of course there is the occasional interloper - like Atletico winning La Liga, or Spurs & Everton finishing in the CL spots - but in reality the PL is hardly better than any other league, althogh granted, it has one or two more teams that "block off" the top spots.

 

And it isn't bellyaching. I would love the CL to disappear in it's current form and return it to how it used to be. European nights used to be something to look forward to, but now they are far too commonplace and is to serve the same teams year in year out. Sure I would love to follow Saints in Europe, and being realistic we have no chance of that (and I don't mean the Europa League). Which comes back to if there is a competition that ¾ of the participants have no (or little) chance of gaining access to the next tier up, what is the point? Do you not think that something needs changing? While it might be detrimental to the ¼ that can and do make it to the next tier, is the game being run to benefit the minority or the majority? That is slightly rhetorical, and probably should have been phrased, "should the game be run for the minority or the majority?". And if the CL serves the same teams ad nauseam, piling more riches upon them, then the PL is going to get ever more distorted, rendering it ever more uneven a playing field. The top 5 or 7 is pretty much a closed shop now, and it isn't going to open up any time soon. So, feel free to call it bellyaching, me, I'm just being pragmatic and looking at a broken "sport" that serves no one save for the minority.

 

But I guess it's all about what you want from football. I would love to see Norwich, Ipswich, Forest embark on a European adventure rather than the same 4/5 clubs, year in, year out. But the powers that be seem content to let market forces rule and not interfere. I am not a Rugby Union fan, but I imagine that they might have had half an eye on the PL and football and seen what path it had gone down and decided to interfere rather than let market force create these chasms. The final nail will be when clubs will be allowed to negotiate their own TV rights. I can imagine that that will soon be on the horizon.

 

The "majority" nationally, globally want to see/support the big football clubs in the biggest competitions. That majority couldn't give two sh its if Nottingham Forest can't be in the European Cup anymore.

 

I am sure you'll come back with "people you know all say they hate it" but I bet they all watched the CL final.

 

So when you say majority you mean supporters of clubs like Saints. What a surprise.

[CB Fry]

.....

Edited 29 August, 2014 by CB Fry

[Charlie Wayman]

Bear in mind that every professional sport is dominated by an elitist few that attract most of the sponsorship money to the detriment of the rest. Nobody has found a way of altering what has become de facto the status quo.

 

We all moan and groan and swear we'll never watch again etc etc but we always do so we have only ourselves to blame; the only agency for change is us the paying and watching fans so if we don't like it it is us who must change our ways. Stop gong, stop watching then see how fast things will alter.

 

...and if you say "That's not a sensible option" then you get what you deserve.

[angelman]

The "majority" nationally, globally want to see/support the big football clubs in the biggest competitions. That majority couldn't give two sh its if Nottingham Forest can't be in the European Cup anymore.

 

I am sure you'll come back with "people you know all say they hate it" but I bet they all watched the CL final.

 

So when you say majority you mean supporters of clubs like Saints. What a surprise.

 

No - the majority of CLUBS in the particular competition. As a slight aside, it was interesting listening to both Adrian Durham and Colin Murray who both criticised the CL for it's predictability and the way it supported and favoured a few clubs by the draw. Martin Samuel wrote a similar piece.

 

As for your bit about "people you know all say they hate it" but watch it, I don't care what people think about the CL and whether they say they hate it but watch it. What I find sadder is people's attitude to domestic football. For example, I know someone who had a very close connection with Saints, but now never goes. Not because of a dislike of Saints or that they support another team, but because football has lost it's gloss and they have just given up with football. There is the occasional thread on here, and there are a fair number of posters who feel the same way. Does it matter? Not in the slightest, so long as demand in Guangzhou, Chongqing and the such is there, that more than makes up for it. The English supporter really is only there to fill the ground - while that does bring some money in, it is important for the atmosphere for the television cameras.

 

There's no right and wrong in this. As I say, it comes down to personal feelings and what you want from football. Many are more than happy with how things are, many aren't.

[The9]

oh you also had that thought?

Their PL opponents are playing two Chelsea sides. The regular PL one, and those other talents scattered around other clubs with the same task. Sturridge did a pretty good job, didn't he.

 

Sturridge has been a Liverpool player for 18 months. He was never on loan to them, has always been permanent.

 

His only loan as a Chelsea player was 6 months at Bolton, who got relegated (though they did beat Arsenal in that period, but neither Chelsea nor Arsenal were remotely close to the title that season).

 

Lukaku is about the only possible example of this, and since then he's permanently signed for the team he was on loan to, suggesting that actually Mourinho just didn't rate him. Plus having Victor Moses at Liverpool last season probably cost Chelsea more than they gained.

 

It's crap having teams stockpile players, but let's not pretend there are many examples of them loaning out players who would be in their first team otherwise.

Edited 29 August, 2014 by The9

[Professor]

The "majority" nationally, globally want to see/support the big football clubs in the biggest competitions. That majority couldn't give two sh its if Nottingham Forest can't be in the European Cup anymore.

 

I am sure you'll come back with "people you know all say they hate it" but I bet they all watched the CL final.

 

So when you say majority you mean supporters of clubs like Saints. What a surprise.

Interesting. Is there any link to the source material or survey results that produced this opinion?

[Batman]

back when football was real football (the 80's) and everyone had a chance of winning the league, there were 4 different champions that decade

in the last 10 years, when football has been a closed shop and no one (bar a select few) there were...err, 4 different champions

 

during the same golden era of football (the 80's) there were 7 different FA cup winners

now football is a closed shop in the last 10 years, we have only had 6 different winners!!!!!

 

 

oh, last edit

in that wonderfu golden era, there were 7 different league cup winners

in todays, money obsessed world (lets say the last 10 years, to keep it consistent) there have only been 8 different league cup winners

 

 

football is ruined!!!!!

Edited 29 August, 2014 by Batman

[CB Fry]

Interesting. Is there any link to the source material or survey results that produced this opinion?

I like the way you have an ironic username.