Saints 0-0 WBA - Post Match Thread

[SuperSAINT]

Sounded disappointing, but even with all our players in tact last season we needed a bit of guile from Gaston to help us win the game.

 

After losing 6 key players this summer, it sounded like we still needed a bit of guile from Gaston to win the game.

 

Keep the faith.

[hypochondriac]

I'd hate to think what this thread would be like if we had lost!

 

What do you expect? It was a rubbish performance.

[fanimal]

Patience, please FGS!! What did you all expect , seriously?? It will take time to gel into a team. Last week showed we can be a good team, but two teams playing 4-5 -1 so 10 in midfield is a recipe for disaster. Disappointed not to see Taider get on, to try something diferent, no disrespect to Jack.

[bpsaint]

Crap game, crap atmosphere.

 

very similar to the same fixture last season, that game was saved by a piece of magic from Gaston though, no such inspiration today.

[St.JonB]

Pelle is a Koeman signing. He has played with enough strikers to know what attributes are needed to be a success. Too early to write Pelle off surely?

[bazza]

Awful game. Just awful.

[Window Cleaner]

Pelle is a Koeman signing. He has played with enough strikers to know what attributes are needed to be a success. Too early to write Pelle off surely?

 

Koeman really has little idea of the standard required in the PL, he's a dutch league manager and Pelle was a succesful dutch league striker.

[diggers]

While I'm generally a Koeman fan I thought his body language today was shocking. I watched the game live on NBCS and the camera shows many close ups of him. Not only was he sat on his arse most of the game but on several occasions he had his hands over his face as if in desperation. Not good two games in. Think he should at least stand on the touch line for half the game. If it's about getting a better view then sit in the directors box for the first 20mis. Maybe it's just his style to be cool and laid back but I thought it came across as being a deer in the headlights.

[DuncanRG]

Couldn't string two passes together or build a foundation of possession despite having Schneiderlin and Wanyama on. I'll put that one down to adaptation

[Plastic]

Poor game but still a draw. Incredible the reaction on here, the performance against Liverpool was excellent and we will see the same again.

[Wes Tender]

Boring, Boring, Boring.

 

It just seemed as if we weren't up for it at all. We just stroked the ball about between the defence several times and then decided for a change to punt it upfield speculatively for a change, thus giving away possession. When we got the ball back deep in our half, it was a case of repeating it once more. I thought that Koeman teams enjoyed playing fast passing attacking football and on the evidence of what we produced today, several players deserve a kick up the backside. Considering that most of the team was the same that put in that excellent fighting performance at Anfield, this home match against a lesser team looks even more gutless.

 

West Brom typically parked the bus away from home and hoped to hit us on the break and as our keeper was much the busier of the two, it almost bore fruit for them. You could see that they were playing for the draw at least, because of the way that their players went down mortally injured to break up play on the few occasions when we achieved any momentum. Also when they substituted Anichebe, he was obviously almost incapable of walking, so long did he take to leave the pitch. An arthritic geriatric nonagenarian pushing a zimmer frame would have made faster progress. But they managed to get behind our defence probably more often than we got behind theirs, and thankfully the defence and Forster were decent enough today, not that West Brom's stikers were any more potent than ours.

 

What was also disappointing, was the lack of penetration out wide today from Clyne and Bertrand. When they did venture forward, neither went for the byeline, putting balls towards the box too early, when they were well defended. Olsson in particular was a rock for them. It would be easy to criticise Pelle, but again he didn't get much service once more. To be effective, he needs to have another player to play off, but when we put Long on, he went out wide and then having taken off Davis, we lost some of our bite in midfield. It seemed as if putting Cork on recognised that and Koeman had adjusted his error. But it was late in the match and West Brom had began to believe that they might steal all three points and put some late pressure on us.

 

I don't think that we're too far adrift of having a decent team, depending on what the calibre is of the next couple of signings. But there needs to be more belief and effort from the team we have so far, as I feel that today we didn't show enough of either.

[hypochondriac]

Poor game but still a draw. Incredible the reaction on here, the performance against Liverpool was excellent and we will see the same again.

 

What is incredible about calling a poor performance poor and wondering about where the goals are going to come from?

[Weston Saint]

Well I had a great day with friends. Icing on the cake was having ex Saints Hughie Fisher, Peter Rodrigues and Reuben Agboola on our table for Lunch and after the game. Also chatted to David Armstrong at half time. Good to see Laurie McMenemy and Leon Crouch back at the club as well.

 

As for the football well it was a bit dire. We lacked intensity and bite up front. We were bereft of ideas.

 

I am not sure about Pelle but he is no Lambert and never will be. Very happy with Forster. Looked confident and I thought our defence was solid. We look to have descended to play similar to WBA and the like.

 

Early days yet for a team still trying to get to know one another. Hopefully the only way is up......

[Roger]

Boring, Boring, Boring.

 

It just seemed as if we weren't up for it at all. We just stroked the ball about between the defence several times and then decided for a change to punt it upfield speculatively for a change, thus giving away possession. When we got the ball back deep in our half, it was a case of repeating it once more. I thought that Koeman teams enjoyed playing fast passing attacking football and on the evidence of what we produced today, several players deserve a kick up the backside. Considering that most of the team was the same that put in that excellent fighting performance at Anfield, this home match against a lesser team looks even more gutless.

 

West Brom typically parked the bus away from home and hoped to hit us on the break and as our keeper was much the busier of the two, it almost bore fruit for them. You could see that they were playing for the draw at least, because of the way that their players went down mortally injured to break up play on the few occasions when we achieved any momentum. Also when they substituted Anichebe, he was obviously almost incapable of walking, so long did he take to leave the pitch. An arthritic geriatric nonagenarian pushing a zimmer frame would have made faster progress. But they managed to get behind our defence probably more often than we got behind theirs, and thankfully the defence and Forster were decent enough today, not that West Brom's stikers were any more potent than ours.

 

What was also disappointing, was the lack of penetration out wide today from Clyne and Bertrand. When they did venture forward, neither went for the byeline, putting balls towards the box too early, when they were well defended. Olsson in particular was a rock for them. It would be easy to criticise Pelle, but again he didn't get much service once more. To be effective, he needs to have another player to play off, but when we put Long on, he went out wide and then having taken off Davis, we lost some of our bite in midfield. It seemed as if putting Cork on recognised that and Koeman had adjusted his error. But it was late in the match and West Brom had began to believe that they might steal all three points and put some late pressure on us.

 

I don't think that we're too far adrift of having a decent team, depending on what the calibre is of the next couple of signings. But there needs to be more belief and effort from the team we have so far, as I feel that today we didn't show enough of either.

 

Steven Davis had a shocking game.

[ExSt Peter Saint]

Very sad if we have dropped down to the level of all the other teams who are pretty close to each other in terms of (lack of) quality. From a team challenging near the top of the table, we could easily slip to a position of fighting to stay up unless we get some better attacking players to create and score chances. I wonder how long Clyne will be top scorer for...

[Saint Charlie]

WBA definitely had better bench options than us. Would have thought it was them who had spent north of £50m!

[Saint Fan CaM]

Lump it to Pelle or knock it back or side wards tactics appear to be the order of the day. Pelle has a huge task to make himself near the required standard - today his heading and trapping of the ball was woeful. JWP did not look comfortable in his position, however he was extremely unlucky not to score from the freekick. Tadic and Vic were great...the rest ok...just.

[Wes Tender]

Steven Davis had a shocking game.

 

You're entitled to you opinion, which is also that this is the worst ever transfer window apparently, even though it has another week to go yet.

[Baird of the land]

Steven Davis had a shocking game.

 

Last season's approach suited him down to the ground.

[Cookie Crumble]

Calm down peeps. It's not like we lost. People go on here way too negative and forget that lots of the new players haven't settled in yet and haven't played in the premier league. Would have liked to have seen Taider though.

[Bobbyboy]

Did look like a pre-season game where they didn't really know each other. Big Vic more advanced than often. Still don't know where the goals are coming from, Pelle may or may not come good sometime but he certainly doesn't get out wide like Lambert did. Tadic looks DC to the rest of them, Clyne seemed to enjoy when he went over to the right towards the end of each half. Really though, looks like several pieces of the puzzle may still be missing. Fonte/Yoshida at the back is not the answer, or if it is then it must be a weird question.

 

I dunno.

[Gastón10]

Steven Davis had a shocking game.

 

Completely agree, but I felt he was played out of position so not entirely to blame. Was the right winger, but drifted far too far infield, to his natural habitat of central midfield, meaning Clyne couldn't be effective when attacking in the 1st half. Had no help. This will improve with the return of Ramirez and eventually J-Rod , giving Koeman more options for the wide positions. Could be argued Mayuka can play there but I'm not sold on him playing as a wideman. Hope we get a winger in before the window closes though. One with serious pace to burn

[aintforever]

That game was awful, it's going to be a long season.

[corsacar saint]

On that showing, where are the goals coming from. Very encouraged by Forster and Tadic.

[Roger]

You're entitled to you opinion, which is also that this is the worst ever transfer window apparently, even though it has another week to go yet.

 

So far. As you're entitled to yours. But so far it is IMO. If you go on whoscored.com that's backs up that Davis was poor.

[BlakeySFC]

I seem to remember similar comments after we drew 0-0 with West Ham last season…and we know how that season turned out...

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Not a good performance, very similar to Cardiff and West Ham last year, and as with Cardiff last year the issue is we struggle to break down teams who park the proverbial.

 

We are missing Ramirez. I honestly, honestly believe if he stops being so ****ing injured he will be one of our most important players this year.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

There was not one memorable moment in the whole game, it was utter dross and incredibly depressing. I know its early days but Pelle showed absolutely nothing and Tadic is a rich man's Ramirez. Underwhelmed.

West Brom also had a new manager and plenty of new players but they looked more a team and they finished the more likely.

[saintant]

Whilst accepting that it is very early in the season that felt like watching Saints pre the pressing game. If we continue with the tactics employed today I'm afraid we will be just another struggling side which is a crying shame when you think how far we've come. Using the high press we always looked comfortable and dominated sides for long spells home and away. I may be wrong but I fear we are in danger of going backwards to the old days where we found it hard to impose ourselves on teams.

[SaffaSaint]

This. Last season started with a win at wb then loss go norwich and draw to sland. This is a good team

Keep the faith

[Saint Billy]

At least another 8 to 10 games before we start seeing the end result of all the changes to the side.

 

New manager, new backroom, new team some of which have not played in the prem, be realistic chaps.

[pangy]

People writing Pelle off need to have a word with themselves,if he is not getting any service he can't do anything,Give it a few more games before we see him adjust to the league and starts imposing himself.

Remember in games last season when RL didn't get any service,the same people were writing him off as well

[shurlock]

Whilst accepting that it is very early in the season that felt like watching Saints pre the pressing game. If we continue with the tactics employed today I'm afraid we will be just another struggling side which is a crying shame when you think how far we've come. Using the high press we always looked comfortable and dominated sides for long spells home and away. I may be wrong but I fear we are in danger of going backwards to the old days where we found it hard to impose ourselves on teams.

 

Agree- feels like something has been lost by watering down the pressing. The irony is that our best chances from open play came from (unforced) West Brom mistakes, something which a pressing game is meant to induce. Perversely we had plenty of hardworking players on the pitch -in lieu of real creativity; yet we lacked aggression and intensity.

 

People keep banging on about us failing break teams down last season. What they overlook is not only that we created chances (whereas we didn't today); but more important that by giving West Brom space to play today, we looked much more vulnerable than in the past.

Edited 23 August, 2014 by shurlock

[derry]

It is unrealistic to play only two forwards, Tadic and Pelle and expect to have a cutting edge. JWP and Davis in front of the square passing Schneiderlin and Wanyama in front of the square passing back four completely neutered us. Even bringing Long on for Davis wasn't radical enough. Taider for JWP might have upped the tempo but Long for me should be the central support for Pelle not wide. Against Leverkusen the tempo was raised when Taider and Ramirez came on. Maybe we should use Tuesday to sort it out.

[VectisSaint]

While I'm generally a Koeman fan I thought his body language today was shocking. I watched the game live on NBCS and the camera shows many close ups of him. Not only was he sat on his arse most of the game but on several occasions he had his hands over his face as if in desperation. Not good two games in. Think he should at least stand on the touch line for half the game. If it's about getting a better view then sit in the directors box for the first 20mis. Maybe it's just his style to be cool and laid back but I thought it came across as being a deer in the headlights.

Good to finally find someone who mentions this. Team played awfully today, Pelle is just a complete waste of space (though he did improve marginally again after Long came on). No tempo, no urgency and no ideas. We were playing a very very ordinary side who outplayed us and looked more likely to score (though they appeared almost as bereft of ideas as us). I like the look of Tadic, but he drifts out of the game too much. JWP and Davis as AM just doesn't work, big fan of Steve Davis but he has looked out of sorts so far and his passing was poor again today. I have never before been to such a poor game of football. Weird sub to bring on Corky when were looking for a spark, why not throw on Taidir or Isgrove to try to get something happening. Crowd were shocking, no atmosphere, nothing from the Northam. Queues at the ticket office still huge at 3pm (got in just at kick off having had to upgrade my daughters ticket from young adult to adult), there were still hundreds outside, **** poor planning for first home game. Back to Ron though, I only recall him making it out to the tactical area once in the whole game, perhaps I missed some others, and once by Fat Sammy. Maybe its not his style to be barking out orders but get out there and at least look as though you know how to motivate the team. It was very odd as well at HT, the subs only came out to warm up about 3 minutes before 2nd half started, really a bit worried about the lack of fitness, compared to last season's high tempo stuff. Half time entertainment is now even worse than last season, at least the relay used to be a laugh, now 2 kids try to score against Sammy Saint, pathetic. Programme price up 33% as well. Traffic awful getting to the game. What happened to the much vaunted food and drink sellers in the bowl (perhaps they were there before kick-off)? Still at least there were no signs of any supporters wearing Santa Claus hats so no embarrasment factor.

 

Otherwise everything was fine, brilliant day out. NOT.

[Batman]

Pelle is a Koeman signing. He has played with enough strikers to know what attributes are needed to be a success. Too early to write Pelle off surely?

 

You talk as if Koeman is this great world manager. He has had mixed successes, hence why he is at saints in the first place

 

As for pelle. You would have thought people would have been wary of eriedivsie strikers by now.

[shaun_inuk]

Early days after a lot of changes. RK will succeed

[9-3]

Dreadful display.

Hoofing it.

Lost our pressing play.

[saint michael]

My worry is that we haven't got time to gel. Our start requires us to pick points. Slow starts and not picking max points up in home games like this mean we will have to start beating the bigger sides

[Coxford_lou]

While I'm generally a Koeman fan I thought his body language today was shocking. I watched the game live on NBCS and the camera shows many close ups of him. Not only was he sat on his arse most of the game but on several occasions he had his hands over his face as if in desperation. Not good two games in. Think he should at least stand on the touch line for half the game. If it's about getting a better view then sit in the directors box for the first 20mis. Maybe it's just his style to be cool and laid back but I thought it came across as being a deer in the headlights.

 

I remember the same criticism of Pochettino...

[positivepete]

Dare not read all the thread, but for those at the match having a go at Pelle, just tell me who in the previous two matches against the Baggies at home got any change from Olsson? He always seems to be a rock, not just against us. Was also impressed with Mulumbu also had a superb game for them. They are a difficult team to play against and they executed their game plan well. Sometimes you have to give the other side credit, even if their tactics are not ones we like. We have a decent side, we will play better than this against more open sides, but all teams struggle to beat teams who come happy for a point.

[VectisSaint]

Dare not read all the thread, but for those at the match having a go at Pelle, just tell me who in the previous two matches against the Baggies at home got any change from Olsson? He always seems to be a rock, not just against us. Was also impressed with Mulumbu also had a superb game for them. They are a difficult team to play against and they executed their game plan well. Sometimes you have to give the other side credit, even if their tactics are not ones we like. We have a decent side, we will play better than this against more open sides, but all teams struggle to beat teams who come happy for a point.

I admire your positivism Pete, but to think that Olsson was the reason for Pelle not performing is so wide of the mark. I didn't see Olsson up against Pelle much if at all today, Olsson was playing more to the left of their defence, while Pelle favoured their right. Any half decent defender could have easily out played Pelle. He doesn't jump, he doesn't move, he doesn't back in (like Lambert). He appears to have no vision and no movement. AS i said he was marginally better 2nd half where he reslised that if he chested the ball down he had a chance to then keep the ball and lay it off, but his control was so poor that even this did not work. I have no desire to write someone off after 2 games, but really he has to change hugely if he is going to make a mark in the PL. He is just a pussy. What we could have done with today was Osvaldo. But what option do we have at the moment, not play our only real striker? If I was RK tonight I would be looking seriously at what may be available in the next week to at least provide some competition.

[manji]

I despair of our fans I really do. How can you predict the season on two games? We didnt play that bad against liverpool and Ive seen many a game similar today and we have lost. We still have key players injured and I dont doubt for a minute we will sign a couple more.

And the team needs a gel. A speciality of Koemans.

Yes you are a bunch of ignorant bed wetters.

[hypochondriac]

I despair of our fans I really do. How can you predict the season on two games? We didnt play that bad against liverpool and Ive seen many a game similar today and we have lost. We still have key players injured and I dont doubt for a minute we will sign a couple more.

And the team needs a gel. A speciality of Koemans.

Yes you are a bunch of ignorant bed wetters.

 

Who definitively predicted the season based on today?

[Dellman]

Looks like we've sold artists and bought labourers

[Latheal]

Positives-

1. thought we were solid. Forster makes a massive difference - just seems to gave an authority about him. Plus he can kick.

2. Tadic - a complete bag of tricks, settled already. Seems to have an understanding with everybody.

3. Morgan - appeared more on "it" this week. He and Wanyama are a great pairing.

4. All the back 5/6/7. Including Forster and Morgs and Vic. Only one real chance in 90mins. Maya did not look out of place.

5. Still trying to play the right way. Will obviously take time. New formation and new players to understand but our best chance came from a great bit of football (Tadic and JWP I think).

6. Wanyama. Gets better and better.

7. Set plays. JWP delivery is awesome and really unlucky from free kick not to score. Also Tadic in reserve, both as good or better than last year.

8. We're only going to get better.

9. Northampton singing Morgan's name. Every little helps.

 

Negatives.

 

1. Lack of chances. WBA did the same last year as others commentated. We didn't look threatening enough and really strange with the Cork sub when we should have been going for it.

2. Support to Pelle. Not Pelle himself. So isolated at times, even if he won a flick on, it wouldn't have mattered as nobody within 20 yards of him. Totally different than how Lambert played, as he's not dropping deep. The balls into him first half were awful, let's see what he can do with balls to feet before judging him. Better second half when this happens. Needs players running off him though. We don't have that at the moment.

3. Thought JWP was bullied off it too often. No disrespect to him, as going to be a great player, but we have to sub when that is happening. We did this a lot last season too (jet the kids on even though bullied off the ball). Could have subbed JWP for Cork and pushed Morgan on, and done Taider for Davies.

4. Whichever side Tadic wasn't on. Crying out for another player there. We have them to come back, so not too worried, but until they are back (Jay, Gaston) we are very 1 dimensional. It's a great dimension though.

5. Jeers for Pelle. Seriously...we are two games in...

6. Playing Long on the wing...makes no sense at all... Could go to either an advanced 4-2-3-1 with Long central behind Pelle, but playing him wide in a 4-3-3 just doesn't work. Defensively exposes us. Hell,we could afford to go 4-4-2 today.

 

Overall, not too disheartened. Will get better. Surprised me how solid we look and how much difference Forster makes. His claiming of crosses was exceptional, and distribution such an upgrade. Lots to be happy about. No arguments about the result - although it was there for the taking...

[Latheal]

I admire your positivism Pete, but to think that Olsson was the reason for Pelle not performing is so wide of the mark. I didn't see Olsson up against Pelle much if at all today, Olsson was playing more to the left of their defence, while Pelle favoured their right. Any half decent defender could have easily out played Pelle. He doesn't jump, he doesn't move, he doesn't back in (like Lambert). He appears to have no vision and no movement. AS i said he was marginally better 2nd half where he reslised that if he chested the ball down he had a chance to then keep the ball and lay it off, but his control was so poor that even this did not work. I have no desire to write someone off after 2 games, but really he has to change hugely if he is going to make a mark in the PL. He is just a pussy. What we could have done with today was Osvaldo. But what option do we have at the moment, not play our only real striker? If I was RK tonight I would be looking seriously at what may be available in the next week to at least provide some competition.

 

Play Lambert in the same formation with the same instructions, you get same the same result. Completely isolated first half. Showed better control and touch second when had better delivery. Need to get closer to him, the players to do that are injured at the moment. Actually think we'd be better off in a 4-2-3-1 at the moment like last year. It's a blatant 4-3-3 but the other 2 of the forward 3 are too far away. That will come as we get players back/in and players get used to it. Last year, Lambert dropped and other players ran in behind. Pelle isn't dropping, as per instructions I assume. The formation works when players run off him.

[The Cat]

Dull game, but our fans need to get over themselves. Continual tutting and whinging like spoilt brats when a pass goes astray or a player misscontrols makes us sound like Arsenal. Seriously, just get behind the team and show some passion. The atmosphere today was absolutely pathetic.

[iansums]

Were people really jeering Pelle? If so what the f*ck is it with some of our fans?

[The Cat]

Were people really jeering Pelle? If so what the f*ck is it with some of our fans?

 

People were groaning after 10 minutes and it carried on all game. Some of our fans are a f.ucking joke.