Ronald Koeman on Artur Boruc's future at Saints

[SydneyFC]

Use Artur for cups and for the weaker teams (Palace, WBA, etc.), and FF for everyone else.

 

Sorted.

 

Agreed/

[Lorne Malvo]

Can't see Boruc staying, he is just about keeping his International place at the moment having two younger keepers playing for top level sides breathing down his neck. Sitting on the bench will also signal the end of his international career.

[Alain Perrin]

Didn't the Boruc hand injury also coincide with Big Vic and Lovren getting crocked? In my opinion that was a greater influence in us conceding more than the keeper choice.

 

Clearly we did / we will miss Boruc but there were other factors too that made Gazza / KD look bad statiscally.

[alpine_saint]

Back to square one in terms of cover between the sticks then...

[Mr Saints]

It's quite a simple situation to handle really, tell both keepers they are competing for the number one shirt and that no one is guaranteed a start.

 

We shot ourselves in the foot when Koeman said in the press that Forster was first choice 5 minutes after signing him.

 

Back to square one if Boruc goes.

[alpine_saint]

It's quite a simple situation to handle really, tell both keepers they are competing for the number one shirt and that no one is guaranteed a start.

 

We shot ourselves in the foot when Koeman said in the press that Forster was first choice 5 minutes after signing him.

 

Back to square one if Boruc goes.

 

This.

 

I am guessing Boruc and Koeman had already argued about it by then and Koeman was annoyed.

 

I do like that Koeman seems willing to face up to these stroppy players head-on though.

[Faz]

It's quite a simple situation to handle really, tell both keepers they are competing for the number one shirt and that no one is guaranteed a start.

 

We shot ourselves in the foot when Koeman said in the press that Forster was first choice 5 minutes after signing him.

 

Back to square one if Boruc goes.

 

It really isn't that simple when you're persuading a £10m keeper from Celtic to join little old Southampton:

 

FF: I'll join on condition I'm first choice

RK: no, you'll have to slug it out with AB

FF: **** off then, you're not the only game in town. I'm first choice for Celtic, winning things, playing CL football and in the England Team.

[Greenridge]

Back to square one in terms of cover between the sticks then...

 

In terms if cover yes although, at £110m I'm hoping we have a better 'keeper and certainly one with more years ahead of him. But, yet again, we are one injury / suspension away from being completely exposed. That was always a risk with the signing of FF so hopefully we have a contingency plan up our sleeve. Still time to get a decent no.2 in place.

[oldskoolsi]

How many premier league teams have two premier league goalkeepers? By that I mean two goalkeepers who could be first choice keeper at any other premier league club. I'm not saying we shouldn't aim to have 2 excellent ones but for a team without European football how realistic is it to ask a top quality keeper to just sit on the bench?

[SaintRichmond]

If Davis and Gazza are the backup again this season then its a pretty poor show.

 

We would be lucky to win a league game with either playing - as proven last season.

 

Worst thing is Im not even sure which of them I would prefer to play. Kelvin seems like the answer, but then he is just too old to be expected to come in and perform at a level he struggled at during his goalkeeping peak.

 

Gazza needs to be loaned out and we need another keeper to be no 2.

 

Bottom line is the club did well getting Forster but have created a situation whereby it will be hard to get another keeper in of a good enough standard as a no 2. Gazza hasnt kicked on as expected and is quite frankly an embarassment at PL level.

 

Have to look hard to find a PL side with a poorer set of backup keepers. Plenty of Championship teams have a no 2 that is more capable now than a 38 year old Davis.

 

 

I just knew that the rash knee jerk reaction of getting rid of Tommy Fourpast would come back to haunt us

[KMondo]

And probably helped keep you in epl in 12/13 and was on of best epl keepers in 13/14

 

Injury prone? Two games with a back injury is hardly injury prone.

 

Forster could break his hand next week and miss exact same amount of games anyone would with a broken hand

 

Really? Which of these do you think Boruc was better than: Cech, De Gea, Szczesny, Begovic (sorry to mention him, must bring back painful memories), Marshall, Guzan, Howard, Foster, Mannone, Lloris.

Personally, think you're flattering yourself and there's a reason you've been replaced.

[OldNick]

And probably helped keep you in epl in 12/13 and was on of best epl keepers in 13/14

 

Injury prone? Two games with a back injury is hardly injury prone.

 

Forster could break his hand next week and miss exact same amount of games anyone would with a broken hand

Artur would have had a lot of sympathy from the bulk of the fan base, and he could easily have come back in if FF got injured or lost form.His pathetic strop has lost any sympathy he would have and should be ashamed how unprofessional he is, good riddance to him

[Miltonaggro]

As someone else posted, Kuszczak and Hilario are both available on free transfers and could do a much better job as deputy than KD or Gazzaniga

 

Kuszczak is still only 32 and would be a perfect deputy to Forster, also has a pedigree that includes Man U and a dozen caps for Poland so a good role model / mentor for the youngsters...

[BotleySaint]

Whether Kuszcak would be happy as backup at this stage in his career though is doubtful.

[OldNick]

Those games:

 

Gazzaniga:

Chelsea (away) L 1-3 (1-1 when Gazzaniga came on)

Aston Villa (home) L 2-3

Man City (home) D 1-1

Newcastle (away) D 1-1

Tottenham (home) L 2-3

Cardiff (away) W 3-0

Man City (away) L 1-4

Cardiff (home) L 0-1

 

Davis:

Everton (away) L 1-2

Chelsea (home) L 0-3

 

Not looking to suggest either of them are good enough, but many of those results could easily have happened with a first-choice keeper available. Chelsea, Man City, Everton - 1 draw from 5 games against those three teams, which is about what we might have expected against them anyway. The only games where our reserve keeper actually cost us points were Villa and Spurs.

You could also ask which games Lovren and Wanyama were playing in of all those. They made a massive difference to our solidity

[egg]

It's quite a simple situation to handle really, tell both keepers they are competing for the number one shirt and that no one is guaranteed a start.

 

We shot ourselves in the foot when Koeman said in the press that Forster was first choice 5 minutes after signing him.

 

Back to square one if Boruc goes.

 

FF wouldn't have joined to be a no 2 or in a fight for no 1 imo.

 

AB has been demoted to 2. He's had a hissy fit and is currently 3,4 or 5. If he stops acting like a muppet he'll get game time this season and provide good cover.

[farawaysaint]

FF wouldn't have joined to be a no 2 or in a fight for no 1 imo.

 

AB has been demoted to 2. He's had a hissy fit and is currently 3,4 or 5. If he stops acting like a muppet he'll get game time this season and provide good cover.

 

Koeman said WHEN he leaves, there's little to no chance he's staying.

[egg]

Koeman said WHEN he leaves, there's little to no chance he's staying.

 

Ah, missed that. I was dealing more with the remark that FF and AB should have been told that they were fighting for no 1. Its understandable that FF will have wanted certain assurances re his position in the team if he were to join so the suggestion of letting them fight it out is not realistic imo.

 

Shame if AB goes but understandable.

 

We've bought well this summer. Areas of weakness have been identified and addressed. I have confidence that will happen here.

[Toadhall Saint]

Koeman said WHEN he leaves, there's little to no chance he's staying.

 

Think I missed that when quote - can you point me in the right direction

[farawaysaint]

Think I missed that when quote - can you point me in the right direction

 

Transcript per the UI.

[angelman]

How many premier league teams have two premier league goalkeepers? By that I mean two goalkeepers who could be first choice keeper at any other premier league club. I'm not saying we shouldn't aim to have 2 excellent ones but for a team without European football how realistic is it to ask a top quality keeper to just sit on the bench?

 

Spurs. Lloris and Vorm

[angelman]

Koeman said WHEN he leaves, there's little to no chance he's staying.

 

 

I find the wording that Koeman has used to be interesting. This is from the Echo where it says "if" rather than "when".

 

until the deadline he will not be on the team. If he stays, ok, then it will be a new situation and we will think about it.

 

Why would that be, why won't he be part of the team? That seems a very strange thing to say unless AB has had a major strop and told the Club to go and do one. I don't think that I have ever seen a manager take this stance over a player who wants to leave, that is, if all parties have remained professional. The "we will think about it" bit isn't great. To me there are two scenarios: either that he has burnt too many bridges or Dave Watson has seen something and really doesn't rate him (and possibly doesn't want him to get in the way of Gazza's development).

 

I am still hoping that he will stay, sign a contract extension, which will give him, his new wife and kid security (although no doubt they are already financially secure). No doubt he would get both cup games as well as league games.

 

 

 

EDIT - the Echo article then goes on to quote "“When he moves, I think that is the best for Artur and the best for the club.”"

Edited 22 August, 2014 by angelman

[Saint Jude]

Surely our one pulling point here is Watson.... we need an up and coming young keeper who's happy being second fiddle... and knows he'll be learning from great young goal keeping coach with England connections... i.e. a Gazza who's actually any good..

[dubai_phil]

To me this all sounds like.

 

Artur has a hissy fit which we can understand.

 

RK says fair enough we only want players in the squad who want to be here so go find a club, no doubt a figure on his value could be guessed at by all parties.

 

Boruc now has 9 days to find a club or he will be stuck here until January. If he doesn't find a club then he knows himself he would have to knuckle down and get SOME game time or he would get no chance to get a decent club/salary come January.

 

Saints probably have someone lined up they can loan in or they may feel that Gazza is another year wiser. (Oh gawd hope not). Saints fans have come to love him.

 

He is a great keeper and character and his stats last year were awesome.

 

But I think many fans feel deep down that he may have (or have had) some external distractions (which may all be non PC stereotypical bullkrap) OR we think deep down those stats were down to VW, our set up or our defence & our way of defending from the front.

 

The door is not closed on him but it is very clear he needs to leave.

 

#regimechange

[david in sweden]

He's off then. Pretty frustrating as it means that the signing of Forster hasn't actually changed anything in terms of that position.

 

this is the main problem with the goalkeeping role.

I was very disappointed that NA didn't buy in an experienced goalie after we were promoted and had our Butland bid rejected, (I bet Brum were sorry about that)...and plumped for Gazzaniga instead.

 

At that time, at least three Prem. sides had 3 goalies on their books with international caps to their names, and several other clubs had two...but despite that... we ploughed on with KD (who had DAJFU in L1 and Championship,) but clearly wasn't up to the job permanently, and in importing Gazzaniga (from L2) we saw that there's no room for beginners in this League.

 

Someone (on here) wrote a text which claimed ....that Cortese insisted we sign a top goalie ASAP - even whilst NA was still experimenting with Gazzaniga (who clearly wasn't the real thing.)

Fortunately...Artur was available on a free transfer.... otherwise we would have been forced to wait until the January window and that might well have been too late for our Prem. survival.

 

Aside from " the water bottle incident " and his dreadful impersonation of Fred Astaire (with Giroud)....Artur has shown some real class, and courage, but his 10 game absence (when he broke his finger at Chelsea) probably cost us the Euro League spot.... as KD and PG leaked in 20 goals between them during his absence).. .and we won only 1 of 10 games).

 

Clearly Artur wanted to retain his no.1 spot (and international Polish place) but like Peter Cech at Chelsea, doesn't see himself sitting on the bench all season waiting for the regular man to pull a muscle.

However, despite all the positives....I still have that " back of the mind feeling " that he is some sort of a square peg at the club....maybe that's just me ....or does anyone agree?

 

With Forster as first choice, we have the same situation as two years ago. But now KD is 2 years older, Gazzaniga hasn't shown any real improvement in that time and poor Cody Cropper has been custodian in 4 of the worst defeats that the U21's suffered last season.... (just bad luck ....or a poor " Forecast "? )

 

it will be interesting to see how we resolve this problem.. given that most top goalies will want to play, and not be a number two all season.

Edited 22 August, 2014 by david in sweden

[angelman]

Does anyone know why Boruc was unemployed when we picked him up?

[david in sweden]

Thankfully the emergency loan window opens then so we will be fine.

 

but doesn't that rule only apply if you have no alternative keeper,?... (and not because you don't have confidence in the other 5 ) two of whom (KD and PG), have already played in the Premier League.

 

.......might be difficult to persuade the FA that we could " loan in " someone based on that scenario.

[Saint_clark]

but doesn't that rule only apply if you have no alternative keeper,?... (and not because you don't have confidence in the other 5 ) two of whom (KD and PG), have already played in the Premier League.

 

.......might be difficult to persuade the FA that we could " loan in " someone based on that scenario.

 

We loaned in Keller when we still had Blayney and Poke available.

[Toadhall Saint]

Transcript per the UI.

 

Cheers

[DT]

Should go for Marshall and let them split the games (ish)

[oldskoolsi]

Spurs. Lloris and Vorm

 

Exactly. They can offer Europe. The Europa League may not be much but it's more than we can offer. Plus Spurs can probably afford to pay their number 2 more than we can.

[stevegrant]

Spurs. Lloris and Vorm

But Spurs are in Europe, so are almost certain to be playing 50+ games this season, with a dozen games or more in cup competitions. That gives Vorm an opportunity to play. From a "professional" point of view of wanting to be first choice, him moving to Spurs is ridiculous when he'd have probably been Swansea's number one ahead of Fabianski and Tremmell, but I suspect he'll probably get to play in the cups for Spurs, and he may think that the massive pay rise he'd have got justifies it.

 

We could end up playing only 2 cup games all season - having spent £10m on a keeper and declaring that he's first choice, that doesn't leave an awful lot of room for a backup who wants to actually play games. In that sense, I have absolutely no problem with Boruc saying that he'd like to move elsewhere if possible so he can play regularly (I'd say you wouldn't ever want players who are "happy" to be sat on the bench every week, there should always be the ambition to play and the belief that they're good enough to do so), but obviously if that move doesn't materialise then he'll have to just suck it up for a few months, I guess.

[Redslo]

If he is still here after the transfer window ends he could be loaned out until January with the right to recall him in an emergency.

[Baird of the land]

Personally i would have preferred us to have gone for an option such as Mccarthy as younger competition with Boruc starting as no 1.

Forster is a good keeper and a good age. However it seemed highly likely Boruc wasn't going to take relegation to bench well and Forster wasn't going to be coming as backup. Hopefully we'll find somewhere to offload Artur as having him sniping from inside camp would hardly be ideal imo. Going with Kelvin as backup hopefully should lead to end of the world.

[sydenhamssocks]

Does anyone know why Boruc was unemployed when we picked him up?

 

His contract at Fiorentina had ended and he turned down a new one in order to seek a new club as a free agent. No transfer cash required I guess but a signing on fee straight in his pocket.

Really like Boruc, an old style eccentric keeper...but the new broom sweeps on!!

[stevegrant]

If he is still here after the transfer window ends he could be loaned out until January with the right to recall him in an emergency.

We'd only be able to loan him to the Football League - not sure he'd go for that.

[Saint Mikey]

Looking at the midtable sides and their backup, they're all much weaker with their 2nd choice:

 

Hull – Harper

W.Ham – Jaaskeleinen

N’Castle – Elliot

Palace – Hennessy

Swansea – Tremmell

S’land – Pantillomon

Villa – Given

 

You could argue that only Chelsea, City and Spurs have a like for like replacement. Even Utd, Arsenal and L'pool have very definite deputies and undoubtedly weaker when they play.

[Saint Charlie]

Looking at the midtable sides and their backup, they're all much weaker with their 2nd choice:

 

Hull – Harper

W.Ham – Jaaskeleinen

N’Castle – Elliot

Palace – Hennessy

Swansea – Tremmell

S’land – Pantillomon

Villa – Given

 

You could argue that only Chelsea, City and Spurs have a like for like replacement. Even Utd, Arsenal and L'pool have very definite deputies and undoubtedly weaker when they play.

 

All of those players are better than Davis, some quite considerably so. Many have been consistent PL performers for a number of years.

 

Davis hasn't had one good PL season.

[shurlock]

Looking at the midtable sides and their backup, they're all much weaker with their 2nd choice:

 

Hull – Harper

W.Ham – Jaaskeleinen

N’Castle – Elliot

Palace – Hennessy

Swansea – Tremmell

S’land – Pantillomon

Villa – Given

 

You could argue that only Chelsea, City and Spurs have a like for like replacement. Even Utd, Arsenal and L'pool have very definite deputies and undoubtedly weaker when they play.

 

I would take most of those keepers over our second choices

 

Harper, Elliot (who produced the best keeping performance i saw at a saints game last season), Jaaskeleinen (weakish on cross, but excellent shot stopper), Pantillomon (Hart had trouble getting his job back when at city), Given (cracking on a bit), even Hennessy are all good backups.

[Berudenot2]

I'm not sure what all the hate is about re Artur. He's been a great benefit to the club and ably assisted in our best position for many a year. Having seen FF ship 6 against Legia Warsawa I wouldn't be too hasty in seeing him as an upgrade until he's proven himself at prem level. Artur could still be No1 and I hope he swallows a bit of pride and fights for his place but it does look like he's actively seeking an exit now.

[irene]

Does anyone know why Boruc was unemployed when we picked him up?

 

He wanted an epl club as his dream was to play in epl

[View From The Top]

He wanted an epl club as his dream was to play in epl

His bank managers dream more like.

[Batman]

He wanted an epl club as his dream was to play in epl

 

no doubt he will have them queuing up to sign him as he was 'one of the best' last season

[cellone]

This.

 

I am guessing Boruc and Koeman had already argued about it by then and Koeman was annoyed.

 

I do like that Koeman seems willing to face up to these stroppy players head-on though.

You think RK shot us in the foot but your glad he'll do it again.

[St Chalet]

Anyone know how much Boruc is on? A potential option would be o cancel his contract by mutual consent and he can take his chances as a free agent.

[Saint IQ]

Difficult situation, if he goes we just got to hope FF dosen't get any serious injuries. Gazza should be loaned out, Cody and Davis as backups.

Edited 22 August, 2014 by Saint IQ

[MarkSFC]

Get rid of the ungrateful, unprofessional, and previously unwanted egotist. Rather a weaker team of understudy keepers who want to fight for their place than a better one who will not fight.

 

We are better in first choice, significantly stronger in the long term but identical in back-up if he goes. There will be options.

[JxgrSaint]

Looking at the midtable sides and their backup, they're all much weaker with their 2nd choice:

 

Hull – Harper

W.Ham – Jaaskeleinen

N’Castle – Elliot

Palace – Hennessy

Swansea – Tremmell

S’land – Pantillomon

Villa – Given

 

You could argue that only Chelsea, City and Spurs have a like for like replacement. Even Utd, Arsenal and L'pool have very definite deputies and undoubtedly weaker when they play.

 

When we played West Ham at home last season Jaaskeleinen put in one of the best goalkeeping performances I've ever seen - could never imagine Gazza keeping out the shots he did, a spectacular save from Morgan's volley in particular...

[angelman]

He wanted an epl club as his dream was to play in epl

 

no doubt he will have them queuing up to sign him as he was 'one of the best' last season

 

So will he ignore the interest from Italy (where was it - Cagliari?) to stay in EPL? And as Batman alludes to, it will be interesting to see which EPL side will want to replace their Nº1 keeper with AB.

 

Can't see the top 7 doing it.

 

So that leaves

 

Hull - McGregor

Palace - Spironi

West Ham - Adrian

Newcastle - Krul

Stoke - Begovic

Swansea - Fabianksi

Villa - Guzan

QPR - Green

Sunderland - Mannone/Pantilimon

WBA - Foster

Leicester - Schmeichel

Burnley - Heaton/Gilks

 

Not sure about Hull or Burnley, but can't see AB being 1st choice anywhere else.

[angelman]

I think some are ruling out that players might actually improve under the new coaching team? That's pretty much what these guys are known for. Gazza is now being coached by Englands GK coach, surely we will see an improvement - he's clearly got ability, just a decision making issue.

 

This, hence why I asked how he had done in U21. Find it strange though, that KD was on the bench at Anfield.