Rivers of Blood

[Turkish]

I'm sure there are many fundamentalists, both home & abroad, BUT they are very much a tiny minority of the Muslim community.

 

 

 

I'm sure there are many unhappy people in Iraq & in many other countries across the Globe.

 

 

However, your poorly written piece linked the "many" unhappy people in one sentence with the "they" in the next sentence (who you then describe in somewhat unglowing terms).

 

I would suggest that the overwhelming majority of Muslims who have come here (happy or unhappy) have not resorted to the behaviour or attitude that you suggest "they" have.

 

Good, so we agree then. There are more than two fundementalists and there are many unhappy people living in places where they are oppressed, such as Iraq. Not difficult to understand is it princess.

[Bearsy]

There are more than two fundementalists and there are many unhappy people living in places where they are oppressed, such as Iraq

 

and birmingham

[Sour Mash]

Immigration is not the problem it's our foreign policy. Tony Blair has a lot to answer for.

 

As long as we continue to interfere in the middle east and align ourself so closely to the US/Israel we will always have a threat of Muslim extremists hanging over us.

Well if we didn't have immigration, we wouldn't have had the incidents highlghted in the OP, so it is relevant.

[Guided Missile]

To repeat, the point Enoch Powell was making is most immigrants do not want to integrate and this fact would lead to some having vested interests in fostering racial and religious differences "with a view to the exercise of actual domination, first over fellow-immigrants and then over the rest of the population".

 

Who can seriously argue that this wasn't prescient and that his prediction that the policy of multiculturalism would cause problems, wasn't also correct. Labour picked up the multiculturalism bandwagon, made it a cause celebre amongst the right-on brigade and ran with it, adding 3 million to the population of this country. Why? Here's why:

 

Research into voting patterns conducted for the Electoral Commission after the 2005 general election found that 80 per cent of Caribbean and African voters had voted Labour, while only about 3 per cent had voted Conservative and roughly 8 per cent for the Liberal Democrats. The Asian vote was split about 50 per cent for Labour, 10 per cent Conservatives and 15 per cent Liberal Democrats.

 

Pretty much why they are against Scottish devolution, then....

Edited 20 August, 2014 by Guided Missile

[Guided Missile]

As long as we continue to interfere in the middle east and align ourself so closely to the US/Israel we will always have a threat of Muslim extremists hanging over us.

As long as we continued to interfere in Poland, France, the Netherlands and the death camps in those countries, we would always have had the threat of Nazi extremists hanging over us OR

As long as we continue to interfere in Northern Iraq and align ourselves with the US to prevent Christian Kurds being executed for refusing to convert to Islam, we will always have a threat of Muslim extremists hanging over us OR

As long as we refuse to convert the UK into a caliphate, oppress minorities and women, we will always have a threat of Muslim extremists hanging over us.

[aintforever]

As long as we continued to interfere in Poland, France, the Netherlands and the death camps in those countries, we would always have had the threat of Nazi extremists hanging over us OR

As long as we continue to interfere in Northern Iraq and align ourselves with the US to prevent Christian Kurds being executed for refusing to convert to Islam, we will always have a threat of Muslim extremists hanging over us OR

As long as we refuse to convert the UK into a caliphate, oppress minorities and women, we will always have a threat of Muslim extremists hanging over us.

 

Maybe, but starting wars and killing thousands of Muslims with our American pals (or the Great Evil in Muslim words) makes the threat much worse.

 

There will always be muslim extremists, in every country. Its when you create sympathy for their cause amongst the wider muslim community you have a problem.

[pap]

As long as we continued to interfere in Poland, France, the Netherlands and the death camps in those countries, we would always have had the threat of Nazi extremists hanging over us OR

As long as we continue to interfere in Northern Iraq and align ourselves with the US to prevent Christian Kurds being executed for refusing to convert to Islam, we will always have a threat of Muslim extremists hanging over us OR

As long as we refuse to convert the UK into a caliphate, oppress minorities and women, we will always have a threat of Muslim extremists hanging over us.

 

As long as we have people stupid enough to be worked into a frenzy over isolated events, we're never really going to suss it out.

[Guided Missile]

Maybe, but starting wars and killing thousands of Muslims with our American pals (or the Great Evil in Muslim words) makes the threat much worse.

 

There will always be muslim extremists, in every country. Its when you create sympathy for their cause amongst the wider muslim community you have a problem.

 

Yeah, right, that's what our armed forces get up to...

 

One thousand Muslims are being killed each day and 90 percent of the killers are also Muslims, the head of Turkey's Directorate of Religious Affairs (Diyanet) has said.

"They are being killed by their brothers, not only in Syria and Iraq, but also in Libya, Pakistan, Africa and Myanmar," Prof. Dr. Mehmet Görmez said in his address to the participants of the World Islamic Scholars, Peace, Moderation and Commonsense Initiative conference in Istanbul on July 19, 2014.

[shurlock]

To repeat, the point Enoch Powell was making is most immigrants do not want to integrate and this fact would lead to some having vested interests in fostering racial and religious differences "with a view to the exercise of actual domination, first over fellow-immigrants and then over the rest of the population".

 

Who can seriously argue that this wasn't prescient and that his prediction that the policy of multiculturalism would cause problems, wasn't also correct. Labour picked up the multiculturalism bandwagon, made it a cause celebre amongst the right-on brigade and ran with it, adding 3 million to the population of this country. Why? Here's why:

 

Research into voting patterns conducted for the Electoral Commission after the 2005 general election found that 80 per cent of Caribbean and African voters had voted Labour, while only about 3 per cent had voted Conservative and roughly 8 per cent for the Liberal Democrats. The Asian vote was split about 50 per cent for Labour, 10 per cent Conservatives and 15 per cent Liberal Democrats.

 

Pretty much why they are against Scottish devolution, then....

 

Absolute mongboard gold - having read this, a small part of my brain has disappeared forever.

 

Where is the evidence that most immigrants don't want to integrate?

How are immigration and multiculturalism one and the same thing?

If its all an electoral ruse, why has Labour supported immigration from Eastern Europe, even though those coming to work here cannot vote?

 

I could go on but I feel my brain hemorrhaging, the more I respond your utterly misguided tosh.

Edited 20 August, 2014 by shurlock

[Sour Mash]

Maybe, but starting wars and killing thousands of Muslims with our American pals (or the Great Evil in Muslim words) makes the threat much worse.

 

There will always be muslim extremists, in every country. Its when you create sympathy for their cause amongst the wider muslim community you have a problem.

On that basis, the likelihood of having muslim extremists in the UK is greatly increased by many years of immigration.

[Guided Missile]

Absolute mongboard gold - having read this, a small part of my brain has disappeared forever.

 

Where is the evidence that most immigrants don't want to integrate?

How are immigration and multiculturalism one and the same thing?

If its all an electoral ruse, why has Labour supported immigration from Eastern Europe, even though those coming to work here cannot vote?

 

I could go on but I feel my brain hemorrhaging, the more I respond your utterly misguided tosh.

Read this article from the Telegraph and when the rest of your brain disappears, you are ready to become a Labour MP...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

[aintforever]

On that basis, the likelihood of having muslim extremists in the UK is greatly increased by many years of immigration.

 

…and even more so by killing thousands in illegal wars in Muslim countries.

[Polaroid Saint]

To repeat, the point Enoch Powell was making is most immigrants do not want to integrate...

 

And he was wrong.

 

It is human nature to integrate. Humanity's history is simply a series of emigrations and integrations (we even integrated with another species with the Neanderthals FFS).

 

Look at the country Powell was so scared of, the States. At the time of his speech the USA was undergoing racial turmoil (primarily due to its racial segregation laws, not immigration, but hey, the facts didn't bother Powell then, so why should they bother us now!?).

 

Let's also remember, this was purely a racially motivated position. Black people. Not religious (nowt to do with Muslims). Powell highlighted America as a warning. That same country now has a multiracial leader and its 'immigration problems' are with economic migrants from Hispanic America (much more similar to the UK in the sixties in fact.)

 

Sure America still has some serious racial issues (its young black prison population for one), but, through multiculturalism, they are continuing to build their nation. Perhaps they could serve as an example of how to handle racial/cultural tensions?

 

You, on the other hand, are suggesting we go back nearly fifty years for cultural advice from a man whose obvious prejudices did untold damage to open dialogue about race in the UK then and since. Bizarre.

[Colinjb]

And he was wrong.

 

It is human nature to integrate.

 

So why is this not happening?

 

Many of the greatest 'integrations' in history, including the example of the Neanderthals, have actually resulted in the near, if not total destruction of one of the sides. History has very few examples of multiculturalism, but many of absorbtion/obliteration.

Edited 20 August, 2014 by Colinjb

[Batman]

…and even more so by killing thousands in illegal wars in Muslim countries.

 

why were there not these problems like this in the 50's when we really did mess with the middle east?

[Colinjb]

why were there not these problems like this in the 50's when we really did mess with the middle east?

 

Issues at that point may not have a been a flashpoint, but they do serve as a root and beginning for everything that followed.

[Batman]

Issues at that point may not have a been a flashpoint, but they do serve as a root and beginning for everything that followed.

 

why is that the beginning. we used to own half of the middle east

[Sour Mash]

…and even more so by killing thousands in illegal wars in Muslim countries.

That may or may not be the catalyst - but your suggestion seems to be that we're always just a spark in the middle east away from dangerous fundamentalist behaviour in our own country, surely a worry?

[Colinjb]

why is that the beginning. we used to own half of the middle east

 

If we are being that picky, then you could be looking back through the entirety of history trying to pinpoint an exact moment. You took that as a date and I stated that there will have been events then that set others into motion.

 

As for 'owning' half of the middle east... the fall of the Ottoman empire was the catalyst for that; that begins at the end of World War 1. The attitude of 'owning' this land at the time, that in itself will have been a start for tensions that we as a nation will have had a direct influence on.

[Sour Mash]

And he was wrong.

 

It is human nature to integrate. Humanity's history is simply a series of emigrations and integrations (we even integrated with another species with the Neanderthals FFS).

 

Look at the country Powell was so scared of, the States. At the time of his speech the USA was undergoing racial turmoil (primarily due to its racial segregation laws, not immigration, but hey, the facts didn't bother Powell then, so why should they bother us now!?).

 

Let's also remember, this was purely a racially motivated position. Black people. Not religious (nowt to do with Muslims). Powell highlighted America as a warning. That same country now has a multiracial leader and its 'immigration problems' are with economic migrants from Hispanic America (much more similar to the UK in the sixties in fact.)

 

Sure America still has some serious racial issues (its young black prison population for one), but, through multiculturalism, they are continuing to build their nation. Perhaps they could serve as an example of how to handle racial/cultural tensions?

 

You, on the other hand, are suggesting we go back nearly fifty years for cultural advice from a man whose obvious prejudices did untold damage to open dialogue about race in the UK then and since. Bizarre.

America still has significant problems with the dvide between black and white. From where do you get the assertion that "It is human nature to integrate"? Apart from something you have just decided yourself.

[Batman]

If we are being that picky, then you could be looking back through the entirety of history trying to pinpoint an exact moment. You took that as a date and I stated that there will have been events then that set others into motion.

 

As for 'owning' half of the middle east... the fall of the Ottoman empire was the catalyst for that; that begins at the end of World War 1. The attitude of 'owning' this land at the time, that in itself will have been a start for tensions that we as a nation will have had a direct influence on.

 

it seems to me that they (as in that part of the world, before the PC brigade stomp on me) are deeply religious and basically need to be 'led' by strong characters/regimes to keep the peace so to speak. despite us in the west not liking the taste of it

[View From The Top]

Instead of scratching your heads and wondering why it's so bad now, go away a look at how Saudi petrodollars have been used to fund hard line Whabbi madrasa's across places like Pakistan and Afghanistan and how those clerics now preach the same message in the UK.

 

Go back and look at how Pakistan and Afghanistan was in the 70s and early 80s compared to now. The freedoms enjoyed by women etc and ask yourself why it's disappeared.

 

It's no accident that the crucible's of terror have Saudi money and doctrine in abundance.

[Polaroid Saint]

So why is this not happening?

 

Many of the greatest 'integrations' in history, including the example of the Neanderthals, have actually resulted in the near, if not total destruction of one of the sides. History has very few examples of multiculturalism, but many of absorbtion/obliteration.

 

You are absolutely correct. Most mass integrations are the final result of prolonged and bloody struggle. That was misleading of me, In my defence I was only using such an extreme example to counter the 'facts' as presented by GM. I do not believe it is a 'fact' immigrants don't wish to integrate.

 

Sorry Sour Mash, I would love to take credit for the insight that Humans prefer to integrate rather than not; but I have to tip my hat to the thousands of anthropologists who have come before me.

 

It is human nature to attempt to blend in. There will always be individuals, groups and iconoclasts who do not bend to this most basic of human traits, but the vast majority of humans prefer not to be noticed, to acclimatise and integrate. We are gregarious creatures, therefore it is in our nature to want to be accepted by 'the group'.

 

Most importantly I refute GMs suggestion that Powell's opinion that 'immigrants do not wish to integrate' is/was a fact.

[View From The Top]

As for integration, I see plenty of it but it's mainly the educated middle classes or those who aspire to move in that direction.

 

I work in an area that has a large(ish) Pakistani population.

 

I see Muslim young women caught between conservative 1st generation parents and the freedoms their friends. I see others proud of the religion but as Western as they come whose parents are allowing them to forge their own careers and make their own marriage choices.

 

I see many young Muslim men who love football, cricket, cars, girls and dress like every other 17yo lad & whose aspirations are the same as everyone else but I see other young Muslim men who are angry, bitter, who have no interest in integration, who hate The West as an entity and hate all those other Muslims who don't share the same view. They are, frankly, dangerous.

 

Now if the majority of young Muslims know who the "Jihad's" are then it's safe to assume that the security services do. If they don't then god help us.

[Polaroid Saint]

why were there not these problems like this in the 50's when we really did mess with the middle east?

 

Once more. Look up Sayyid Qutb. Fascinating man and life. Hopefully that will help with your questions about timings.

[Saint Billy]

why were there not these problems like this in the 50's when we really did mess with the middle east?

The internet did not exist then, television was very limited so not as much coverage of International events, world transport was not as vast or assessable as it is now.

[Sour Mash]

Sorry Sour Mash, I would love to take credit for the insight that Humans prefer to integrate rather than not; but I have to tip my hat to the thousands of anthropologists who have come before me.

Right, so it's just your opinion.

[hypochondriac]

America still has significant problems with the dvide between black and white. From where do you get the assertion that "It is human nature to integrate"? Apart from something you have just decided yourself.

 

He probably read it in a book or someone said it in a lecture he attended.

[Killers Knee]

I recognise that if you work in a Portsmouth Primark, the offer of being cannon fodder on the Syrian front line must be like hitting the Jackpot.

 

But when all these British ISIS fighters finally get bored and want to come home to mums cooking, will they be allowed to waltz back in as if they've been to Marbella for a fortnight?

[pap]

Instead of scratching your heads and wondering why it's so bad now, go away a look at how Saudi petrodollars have been used to fund hard line Whabbi madrasa's across places like Pakistan and Afghanistan and how those clerics now preach the same message in the UK.

 

Go back and look at how Pakistan and Afghanistan was in the 70s and early 80s compared to now. The freedoms enjoyed by women etc and ask yourself why it's disappeared.

 

It's no accident that the crucible's of terror have Saudi money and doctrine in abundance.

 

Interesting timeframe, because it contains the 1979 revolution of Iran. It hasn't really been discussed on this thread, but it looms huge in the Saudi picture. Most don't remember now, but it wasn't just an overthrow of the government. The new regime was calling for an Islamic Revolution across the entire region, lambasting states like Saudi Arabia that had followed the US model of capitalism. If Saddam hadn't been coerced into starting the Iran-Iraq war, they may have gotten a little further along in regional revolution.

 

As it turns out, Saudi Arabia ploughed funds into extremist groups, almost certainly to prove its revolutionary credentials and silence internal dissent, and still funds them to this day. We know this, the Yanks know this. Perhaps I'm being overly simplistic, but wouldn't a reasonable position be to put pressure on the Saudis to stop their funding? If the likes of the Taleban, Al Qaeda, ISIS et al are causing us so much bother, why not just cut 'em off at source?

 

Oil would be an immediate, but incomplete answer. The truth is that it serves Western hawk purposes; every Muslim extremist is justification for the continuance of the war economy. The consequences of war create more extremists. Saudi funding is a vicious circle, with some astonishingly beneficial side-effects for the military industrial complex and the Saudi leaders.

 

They get to say "don't listen to Iran! We ARE serious about Islam". We get an unending series of justifications for draconian laws here, and imperial adventures overseas.

 

If the plan didn't cost so damn much, I'd almost admire it.

Edited 20 August, 2014 by pap

[View From The Top]

The internet did not exist then, television was very limited so not as much coverage of International events, world transport was not as vast or assessable as it is now.

 

So you think there wasn't trouble because people didn't know about it?

[shurlock]

Read this article from the Telegraph and when the rest of your brain disappears, you are ready to become a Labour MP...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

 

Thanks for making my point -that migration had little to do with Labour electoral advantage -indeed parts of the party actually saw it as damaging to its electoral interests and core working class vote. Rather many saw diversity as an end in itself, though that isn't strictly true. Can say for a fact that many in the party bought into the economic benefits of liberalisation and freedom of movement as did many conservatives.

Edited 20 August, 2014 by shurlock

[shurlock]

America still has significant problems with the dvide between black and white. From where do you get the assertion that "It is human nature to integrate"? Apart from something you have just decided yourself.

 

How much of that is genuinely racial and how much is economic that is then racialised?

[Polaroid Saint]

Right, so it's just your opinion.

 

He probably read it in a book or someone said it in a lecture he attended.

 

Brilliant.

 

Yes it is my 'education' at fault here; I read BOOKS! And form OPINIONS based on research and academia. Shock! Horror! (Although, I would say it is generally agreed - of course open to be further research, proof/disproof - that the human animal is a social one, and naturally tries to integrate. As per that caveat, I'll take the TSW forum rule that any disputable fact is 'an opinion'.)

 

Oh nose! You have outed me as an 'intellectual'! - "Boo Hiss, the man has chosen to spend his life on a quest for knowledge. What a cùnt! Let's ignore his opinions, for his reasonable approach to knowledge gathering scares us."

 

Ignorance may be bliss my friends, but you should not take pride in it.

[Batman]

Pretty tragic when we have brits intent on slaughtering others in the streets in the name of islam

we have brits going to fight for evil regimes and now cutting peoples heads off. Throw in the Trojan Horse school things

 

WTF has happened where we have been so 'open and welcoming' that this has grown out of British society.

[hypochondriac]

Brilliant.

 

Yes it is my 'education' at fault here; I read BOOKS! And form OPINIONS based on research and academia. Shock! Horror! (Although, I would say it is generally agreed - of course open to be further research, proof/disproof - that the human animal is a social one, and naturally tries to integrate. As per that caveat, I'll take the TSW forum rule that any disputable fact is 'an opinion'.)

 

Oh nose! You have outed me as an 'intellectual'! - "Boo Hiss, the man has chosen to spend his life on a quest for knowledge. What a cùnt! Let's ignore his opinions, for his reasonable approach to knowledge gathering scares us."

 

Ignorance may be bliss my friends, but you should not take pride in it.

 

Your problem is you consider your opinion beyond reproach and you also assume that no one else with a contrary opinion forms their opinions from books and other sources combined with real world experience.

[pap]

Your problem is you consider your opinion beyond reproach abd you also assume that no one else forms their opinions from books and other sources combined with real world experience.

 

That accusation was defunct before you posted.

 

Polaroid has already ceded ground on this thread, and provided some context to the discussion.

 

I have been encouraged by your recent assessment of events in Iraq, hypo. I'd like to see more of that kind of insight.

[Colinjb]

You are absolutely correct. Most mass integrations are the final result of prolonged and bloody struggle. That was misleading of me, In my defence I was only using such an extreme example to counter the 'facts' as presented by GM. I do not believe it is a 'fact' immigrants don't wish to integrate.

 

Sorry Sour Mash, I would love to take credit for the insight that Humans prefer to integrate rather than not; but I have to tip my hat to the thousands of anthropologists who have come before me.

 

It is human nature to attempt to blend in. There will always be individuals, groups and iconoclasts who do not bend to this most basic of human traits, but the vast majority of humans prefer not to be noticed, to acclimatise and integrate. We are gregarious creatures, therefore it is in our nature to want to be accepted by 'the group'.

 

Most importantly I refute GMs suggestion that Powell's opinion that 'immigrants do not wish to integrate' is/was a fact.

 

It depends what the 'group' is though. Open minded tourists on holiday may try to stretch themselves but the 'egg and chips' types who invade Spain every year highlight that en-mass people want familiarity as much as integration.

 

Taking an altogether more scary example, I sincerely doubt that the average Hutu in Rwanda wanted to partake in mass genocide of their Tutsi neighbours, yet the vast majority did under group mentality. The desire to fit in was more overwhelming then the moral obligation to not facilitate murder. Humanity really can be an awful species, there is the capability for evil in everyone if it is manipulated.

 

My own personal experiences in living in the West Midlands in the previous ten years also lean me to feel that although the vast majority of immigrants are peaceful they are far happier at being within their own communities then going elsewhere. Equally, I was happier to move back to Hampshire then stay.

Edited 20 August, 2014 by Colinjb

[shurlock]

Your problem is you consider your opinion beyond reproach and you also assume that no one else with a contrary opinion forms their opinions from books and other sources combined with real world experience.

 

Curious to know -what was the last book you read?

[hypochondriac]

Curious to know -what was the last book you read?

 

Not sure why that's important but since you asked, the universe versus Alex woods which was an easy read whilst on holiday. I recommend it. Just before that I read empire of blue water which is fantastic and everyone should read. I started reading the Hundred year old man who climbed out the window but I couldn't get into its silliness. Before that I had a keen interest in North Korea and read a few books including nothing to envy and escape from camp 17. It reads like a film script but is a sobering tale.

 

Empire of blue water is the one to read though it's fascinating.

Edited 20 August, 2014 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

That accusation was defunct before you posted.

 

Polaroid has already ceded ground on this thread, and provided some context to the discussion.

 

I have been encouraged by your recent assessment of events in Iraq, hypo. I'd like to see more of that kind of insight.

 

I still think you are pretty mental and 99% of your theories are stark raving bonkers and borderline offensive. I happen to agree with you about Iraq.

[Polaroid Saint]

Your problem is you consider your opinion beyond reproach and you also assume that no one else with a contrary opinion forms their opinions from books and other sources combined with real world experience.

 

 

Quite the opposite in fact. I consider my opinion to be of very little merit to me personally. It is only ever a placeholder until a better* one takes its place. If, however, my 'opinions' (I prefer the phrase 'current understanding') can help others form better opinions then I voice them, otherwise I stay silent.

 

I seriously do NOT assume anything in life, real or online; I am genuinely sorry if that is the impression I give.

 

*By 'better' I mean more informed, more rounded, more precise.

[hypochondriac]

Quite the opposite in fact. I consider my opinion to be of very little merit to me personally. It is only ever a placeholder until a better* one takes its place. If, however, my 'opinions' (I prefer the phrase 'current understanding') can help others form better opinions then I voice them, otherwise I stay silent.

 

I seriously do NOT assume anything in life, real or online; I am genuinely sorry if that is the impression I give.

 

*By 'better' I mean more informed, more rounded, more precise.

 

I accept your apology.

[aintforever]

why were there not these problems like this in the 50's when we really did mess with the middle east?

 

Good question, to be honest I wouldn't have a clue.

 

The Lee Rigby murder and 7/7 bombings are clearly related to our involvement in the middle east, the perpetrators said so themselves.

[DuncanRG]

Congratulations on naming one migrant out of the hundreds of thousands, millions that have come to this country and lived productively, peacefully and within the law.

 

Think about that - one person out of a million. One in a million. What does that phrase normally mean?

 

How much of that is genuinely racial and how much is economic that is then racialised?

 

Considering the USA is a nation built by black slaves under white supremacists, I'd say, er, all of it.

Edited 20 August, 2014 by DuncanRG

[Batman]

Good question, to be honest I wouldn't have a clue.

 

The Lee Rigby murder and 7/7 bombings are clearly related to our involvement in the middle east, the perpetrators said so themselves.

 

added to the fact that society has turned a blind eye to the rise of radical islam in this country

anyone dare mention islam and this issue would normally have been met with the "racist' tag. like people still do when you try to debate immigration

[Ludwig]

He probably read it in a book or someone said it in a lecture he attended.

 

Hahahaha! This is the best post ever.

 

How dare someone form an opinion based on books and academic lectures! The bloody cheek of it. Coming on here with their education and informed opinion. We don't need their sort round here. Lets form a mob, quickly.....hypo, please lead the mob. Lets see if we can flush out any other of these readers.

[Grey Crab]

Well "Neville" if you don't act against these lunes then within 30 years or so you will be dead and won't have to worry.

These lunes will just order moderate Muslims to join them or die, guess what -they will join and kill all non followers

just like they are doing now.

 

 

"Neville - peace for our time - Chamberlain" 1938 didn't work then either.

 

What a bellend.

[Bearsy]

Congratulations on naming one migrant out of the hundreds of thousands, millions that have come to this country and lived productively, peacefully and within the law.

 

Think about that - one person out of a million. One in a million. What does that phrase normally mean?

 

sperms

[pap]

Quite the opposite in fact. I consider my opinion to be of very little merit to me personally. It is only ever a placeholder until a better* one takes its place. If, however, my 'opinions' (I prefer the phrase 'current understanding') can help others form better opinions then I voice them, otherwise I stay silent.

 

I seriously do NOT assume anything in life, real or online; I am genuinely sorry if that is the impression I give.

 

*By 'better' I mean more informed, more rounded, more precise.

 

Which really applies to hypo's assessment of Iraq. He only agrees with me because he has extra information through personal connections to the region, illustrating the importance of detail.

 

Trying to assess the situation through the echo chamber of the Western media is a fruitless exercise.