Rivers of Blood

[Guided Missile]

Enoch Powell gave a speech over 46 years ago that had the unfortunate effect of forever labelling him a racist. For me, at the time, he was a visionary, but like many, I kept my mouth shut and head below the parapet, unlike a number of my skinhead mates who provided security at his public meetings.

 

Now, after watching the slaughter of a soldier in Greenwich and now a journalist in Syria, by British immigrants dedicated to the destruction of our society, surely we can now acknowledge the damage previous immigration policies have done. It may be worth reading what Powell said, all those years ago and reflect. Powell argued that although "many thousands" of immigrants wanted to integrate, he contended that the majority did not, and that some had vested interests in fostering racial and religious differences "with a view to the exercise of actual domination, first over fellow-immigrants and then over the rest of the population".

 

As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding. Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood". That tragic and intractable phenomenon which we watch with horror on the other side of the Atlantic but which there is interwoven with the history and existence of the States itself, is coming upon us here by our own volition and our own neglect. Indeed, it has all but come. In numerical terms, it will be of American proportions long before the end of the century. Only resolute and urgent action will avert it even now. Whether there will be the public will to demand and obtain that action, I do not know. All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.

 

Hard to argue, isn't it, but unfortunately, way too late....

 

...and no, I'm not and never have been, a racist.

[pap]

I suppose if you present two very extreme and well-publicised examples as representative of the entire immigration experience, then yeah, it looks fúcking terrible.

[Pancake]

****ing hell, GM is older than I thought (based on his Playgirl style photo from the BBC a few years back)

[Colinjb]

There are elements of truth in that speech, as unpalatable though it may be.

 

Of course it isn't valid as a sweeping generalisation, but to shy away from the threat that is represented by the extremes would be wrong.

[pap]

There are elements of truth in that speech, as unpalatable though it may be.

 

Of course it isn't valid as a sweeping generalisation, but to shy away from the threat that is represented by the extremes would be wrong.

 

It's just as dangerous to present extremes as the norm, something reflected in every day life.

 

Technically, a myriad of truly appalling fates could meet us at any time, yet we carry on with the assumption that it won't happen, because in most cases that it is true.

 

It was evident from the start that the real motives of multiculturalism were never benevolent; it was about creating divide and rule and implementing a strategy of tension. Works to a degree, especially among the older generation that have genuinely seen massive social change due to immigration. I'm sure that the recent "worst of Islam" highlights from latest bogeymen ISIS will drum up a few younger recruits.

 

Hopefully though, the majority will realise they are being played.

[Turkish]

The countries in the world where most people are relatively happy are in the Western world, we have freedom of speech, a decent standard of living a health service, a welfare state. The countries in the world where many people are unhappy is the middle east. They are suppressed, they are persecuted if they speak out against the government or their religion, they kill people if they dont approve of their way of life, they are rioting and protesting against everything and anything. They dont want to live in a place like this so they go to the places where people are happy, where they can have freedom of speech, a better standard of living, a health service and a welfare state, a better life. When they get there they want the place they moved to be happy to be just like the place where they have come from where they are unhappy. They protest against everything and anything, they kill people who dont approve of their way of life, they persecute and accuse people of racism if they say anything against their religion. They want the place they moved to escape where they didn't want to live to become just like the place where they came from to escape where they didn't want to live.

[Saint in Paradise]

The huggy-fluffie hand wringers will be along soon to say Muslims are peace loving etc etc etc.

 

Appeasement never works with fanatical lunatics, this lot are so bad that even the Al Q lot kicked

them out.

 

Criminals who murder people and then in defence say " Some invisible bloke in the sky spoke to me and

told me to do it" are thought of as lunatics. What is the difference with this "IS" lot then?, they say their

invisible bloke in the sky tells them to kill all non believers.

 

I laugh at all religions that claim that theirs is the only true religion, they are the only ones to whom

the invisible bloke in the sky talks to.

[Colinjb]

The countries in the world where most people are relatively happy are in the Western world, we have freedom of speech, a decent standard of living a health service, a welfare state. The countries in the world where many people are unhappy is the middle east. They are suppressed, they are persecuted if they speak out against the government or their religion, they kill people if they dont approve of their way of life, they are rioting and protesting against everything and anything. They dont want to live in a place like this so they go to the places where people are happy, where they can have freedom of speech, a better standard of living, a health service and a welfare state, a better life. When they get there they want the place they moved to be happy to be just like the place where they have come from where they are unhappy. They protest against everything and anything, they kill people who dont approve of their way of life, they persecute and accuse people of racism if they say anything against their religion. They want the place they moved to escape where they didn't want to live to become just like the place where they came from to escape where they didn't want to live.

 

Not sure whether this is from the Adrian Durham school of stirring argument.... however there is a certain degree of 'children repeating the mistakes of their parents.' Starting from a point of wanting to escape from bad behaviour, yet repeating it themselves in later life.

Edited 20 August, 2014 by Colinjb

[Guided Missile]

****ing hell, GM is older than I thought (based on his Playgirl style photo from the BBC a few years back)

That was 10 years ago. You're also older than you thought....

[Batman]

personally, I think we are just (or have been) far too soft as a country against those dangerous types. probably in fear of being seen to offend people

[pap]

The countries in the world where most people are relatively happy are in the Western world, we have freedom of speech, a decent standard of living a health service, a welfare state. The countries in the world where many people are unhappy is the middle east. They are suppressed, they are persecuted if they speak out against the government or their religion, they kill people if they dont approve of their way of life, they are rioting and protesting against everything and anything. They dont want to live in a place like this so they go to the places where people are happy, where they can have freedom of speech, a better standard of living, a health service and a welfare state, a better life. When they get there they want the place they moved to be happy to be just like the place where they have come from where they are unhappy. They protest against everything and anything, they kill people who dont approve of their way of life, they persecute and accuse people of racism if they say anything against their religion. They want the place they moved to escape where they didn't want to live to become just like the place where they came from to escape where they didn't want to live.

 

Happiness is subjective, but even so, most of the studies that are out there don't have the UK or US anywhere near the top 10. The gongs tend to go to small, well-managed countries that prioritise the affairs of their citizens.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/picturegalleries/10302485/The-worlds-happiest-countries.html?frame=2668662

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/

[pap]

personally, I think we are just (or have been) far too soft as a country against those dangerous types. probably in fear of being seen to offend people

 

We agree. I think the ten year period leading up to 9/11, when to the untrained eye, it looked like the British government was welcoming every Islamic extremist group going, is very suspicious. The French were fúcking furious when they realised that the Paris Metro bombing had been planned in "Londonistan".

 

What was that all about?

[Turkish]

Happiness is subjective, but even so, most of the studies that are out there don't have the UK or US anywhere near the top 10. The gongs tend to go to small, well-managed countries that prioritise the affairs of their citizens.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/picturegalleries/10302485/The-worlds-happiest-countries.html?frame=2668662

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/

 

That's because a lot of people in the the Uk and USA are pampered, selfish, ungrateful and lazy with a sense of entitlement. the standard of living the average person has in this country is the top 10% of the world, the opportunities open to people in this country are fantastic, a lot of people simply dont want to work for them. Yes everyone has problems and challenges, but if you want to make something of your life then you're in the right place to do it.

[Grey Crab]

I hope that when I get old, I don't turn into such a hateful, nasty, bitter, reactionary, ignorant, frightened old man. This thread is a warning to us all.

[pap]

That's because a lot of people in the the Uk and USA are pampered, selfish, ungrateful and lazy with a sense of entitlement. the standard of living the average person has in this country is the top 10% of the world, the opportunities open to people in this country are fantastic, a lot of people simply dont want to work for them. Yes everyone has problems and challenges, but if you want to make something of your life then you're in the right place to do it.

 

Nah, it's because for all the success stories, there are tons of people left on the shítheap or suicided out of existence.

 

Not a bad place to be if you've a bit of motivation and/or talent, but speaking personally, there are far better places for me to ply my trade if standard of living was my largest concern.

[Saint in Paradise]

I hope that when I get old, I don't turn into such a hateful, nasty, bitter, reactionary, ignorant, frightened old man. This thread is a warning to us all.

 

Well "Neville" if you don't act against these lunes then within 30 years or so you will be dead and won't have to worry.

These lunes will just order moderate Muslims to join them or die, guess what -they will join and kill all non followers

just like they are doing now.

 

 

"Neville - peace for our time - Chamberlain" 1938 didn't work then either.

[um pahars]

When they get there they want the place they moved to be happy to be just like the place where they have come from where they are unhappy. They protest against everything and anything, they kill people who dont approve of their way of life, they persecute and accuse people of racism if they say anything against their religion. They want the place they moved to escape where they didn't want to live to become just like the place where they came from to escape where they didn't want to live.

 

A bit of a sweeping usage of the term THEY.

 

These extremists/murderers/loons are a minority, granted a loud and dangerous minority, but they should not be used to tar all immigrants/Muslims/whoever. This dangerous minority should feel the full force of the law and we should ensure we do all to bring them to justice, outlaw their hate preaching & indoctrination and not allow our proud tradition of free speech and personal freedoms to be abused.

 

The OP also labels the two Rigby murderers as immigrants, whereas I'm sure they were both British born.

[Turkish]

A bit of a sweeping usage of the term THEY.

 

These extremists/murderers/loons are a minority, granted a loud and dangerous minority, but they should not be used to tar all immigrants/Muslims/whoever. This dangerous minority should feel the full force of the law and we should ensure we do all to bring them to justice, outlaw their hate preaching & indoctrination and not allow our proud tradition of free speech and personal freedoms to be abused.

 

The OP also labels the two Rigby murderers as immigrants, whereas I'm sure they were both British born.

 

I wasn't tarring all of them with the same brush my self righteous chum. There are some really good people that have come into this country.

[um pahars]

I wasn't tarring all of them with the same brush my self righteous chum. There are some really good people that have come into this country.

 

Some?? Does that equate to the overwhelming majority??

[TheCholulaKid]

The countries in the world where most people are relatively happy are in the Western world, we have freedom of speech, a decent standard of living a health service, a welfare state. The countries in the world where many people are unhappy is the middle east. They are suppressed, they are persecuted if they speak out against the government or their religion, they kill people if they dont approve of their way of life, they are rioting and protesting against everything and anything. They dont want to live in a place like this so they go to the places where people are happy, where they can have freedom of speech, a better standard of living, a health service and a welfare state, a better life. When they get there they want the place they moved to be happy to be just like the place where they have come from where they are unhappy. They protest against everything and anything, they kill people who dont approve of their way of life, they persecute and accuse people of racism if they say anything against their religion. They want the place they moved to escape where they didn't want to live to become just like the place where they came from to escape where they didn't want to live.

 

What a crock of ****!

 

****ing hell, GM, you really are a sad, hateful little c^nt. I guess that's what fear does to a person though.

[um pahars]

And just watching Sky News now and hearing excerpts from the "video", surely someone can recognise that voice and put a name to it??

[aintforever]

Immigration is not the problem it's our foreign policy. Tony Blair has a lot to answer for.

 

As long as we continue to interfere in the middle east and align ourself so closely to the US/Israel we will always have a threat of Muslim extremists hanging over us.

[Saint Billy]

Immigration is not the problem it's our foreign policy. Tony Blair has a lot to answer for.

 

As long as we continue to interfere in the middle east and align ourself so closely to the US/Israel we will always have a threat of Muslim extremists hanging over us.

Disagree, the EU, Immigration, International meddling and Political correctness are all to blame.

 

Since 9/11 all we have done is to try and hunt down the instigators and their affiliates rather than tighten our own laws to stop this rot spreading throughout our own borders.

[Guided Missile]

Immigration is not the problem it's our foreign policy. Tony Blair has a lot to answer for.

 

As long as we continue to interfere in the middle east and align ourself so closely to the US/Israel we will always have a threat of Muslim extremists hanging over us.

 

It's a bit hard to align ourselves with any Muslim country. As of 2012, Indonesia is the only Muslim-majority nation out of 50, acknowledged as democratic by both Freedom House and Economist democracy indexes.

[Batman]

the islamic voice will only get louder and stronger in the next 30 years or so in this country/the west

and with that, the nasty, evil minority will grow with it

[Lighthouse]

Happiness is subjective, but even so, most of the studies that are out there don't have the UK or US anywhere near the top 10. The gongs tend to go to small, well-managed countries that prioritise the affairs of their citizens.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/picturegalleries/10302485/The-worlds-happiest-countries.html?frame=2668662

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/

 

I don't often agree with pap but I think he is spot on here.

 

I've been lucky enough to have been working in Norway and Sweden for the last few months and my general impression is that they are years ahead of us in terms of quality of life. It helps that ugly people are euthanised at birth and fat people are immediately deported to Germany. Seriously, if anyone gets the chance to visit Oslo in summer go to the Lektern bar on the waterfront and watch a different super model walk past every minute.

 

I think the UK is pretty good overall. Certainly compared to Italy or Spain. The vast majority of immigrants I've met are hard working and seem to be fully integrated into British society. I know a Muslim man who binge drinks and cheats on his wife, so he has taken our culture very much to heart.

 

We need to maintain constant vigilance against excessive immigration and the problems with extremism but I don't think our small number of Islamists represents a pandemic.

[KingdomCome]

Nationalism and religion; the sooner we're rid of both the better....not just the UK.

 

As humans we have an uncontrollable need for "the bad guy" or "the others" though, so it's not going to happen.

[Lighthouse]

the islamic voice will only get louder and stronger in the next 30 years or so in this country/the west

and with that, the nasty, evil minority will grow with it

 

Actually I think the next generation of British born Muslims will be diluted by British culture. Most people who grow up in Islamic states in the ME have strong Muslim values beaten into them from birth. A British born Muslim, even with devout Muslim parents, will still be exposed to the overwhelming British apathy towards religion. Peer pressure is strong among children, many of them will lose interest in religion when all their friends are going out drinking, party and sleeping with each other.

[Batman]

Actually I think the next generation of British born Muslims will be diluted by British culture. Most people who grow up in Islamic states in the ME have strong Muslim values beaten into them from birth. A British born Muslim, even with devout Muslim parents, will still be exposed to the overwhelming British apathy towards religion. Peer pressure is strong among children, many of them will lose interest in religion when all their friends are going out drinking, party and sleeping with each other.

that is your opinion

those born here now are what, 2nd, 3rd, even 4th generation? yet the message is getting louder from the evil minority as the islamic culture grows in this country.

 

we are far too soft on radicalised islamics and just watching the news can easily lead you to that impression.

a mix of EU laws/rules on open door immigration and our own softness and political correctness allows a small few to spread their evil.

 

its like europe in the middle ages, conquests in the name of religion and all that

 

 

there was a preacher on London Tonight who promotes sharia law in his neighbourhood (his lackies go around the streets enforcing it) and stating that more and more people like him demand sharia law zones in London/Birmingham/Bradford etc and their movement is becoming more united/co-operative.

when asked why he doesnt move to to a region of the world that caters to his desires, he reply was simple. The UK is too easy to get a free ride and allow him and his colleagues to spread their version of Islam and that it is his democratic right to imposed sharia law in the estate he lives and and promoted support for ISIS

 

pretty sad really

Edited 20 August, 2014 by Batman

[aintforever]

It's a bit hard to align ourselves with any Muslim country. As of 2012, Indonesia is the only Muslim-majority nation out of 50, acknowledged as democratic by both Freedom House and Economist democracy indexes.

 

Doesn't mean it's a good idea to go around starting wars in Muslim countries.

[Batman]

this is obviously an extreme view (or is it) but just some numbers working off current trends

(it clearly has an agenda but there is some truth in there)

 

[pap]

Disagree, the EU, Immigration, International meddling and Political correctness are all to blame.

 

Since 9/11 all we have done is to try and hunt down the instigators and their affiliates rather than tighten our own laws to stop this rot spreading throughout our own borders.

 

Funny. Don't remember Islamic extremism being a particularly big concern before 9/11, despite having a sizeable Muslim population present in the UK for 40 years.

[Batman]

Funny. Don't remember Islamic extremism being a particularly big concern before 9/11, despite having a sizeable Muslim population present in the UK for 40 years.

 

well, in the 90's it was biggest threat to the UK besides PIRA

[aintforever]

well, in the 90's it was biggest threat to the UK besides PIRA

 

What attacks happened in the 90's?

[Batman]

What attacks happened in the 90's?

 

attacks are foiled all the time

but it is a fact that outside of the IRA, islamic terrorism with the biggest threat according to the Govt

majority of the concern then was state sponsored terrorism, much like the Lockerbie bombing, that has obviously morphed since

we decided to bomb the shyt out of everything after 9/11 and some of the states have been removed/changed

[Turkish]

What a crock of ****!

 

****ing hell, GM, you really are a sad, hateful little c^nt. I guess that's what fear does to a person though.

 

Ignoring the insults for a minute, which is ironic that you're accusing me of hatefulness when at the same time calling someone a c*nt for having an opion different to yours, but please explain why people come to this country from these sort of places?

[pap]

well, in the 90's it was biggest threat to the UK besides PIRA

 

You mean, the Londonistan period?

 

http://www.meforum.org/994/londonistan-radical-islam-and-the-disintegration

 

During the 1990s numerous radicals from the Islamic world poured into Britain after having fought the Soviets in Afghanistan, where they had effectively become Jihadis. When these men returned to their home countries as battle-ready revolutionaries, many were expelled. These individuals eventually found their way to Britain, which, for a variety of reasons, was very hospitable to terrorists of all kinds. This turned Britain, during the 1990s, into the literal epicenter of European Jihad.

[aintforever]

attacks are foiled all the time

but it is a fact that outside of the IRA, islamic terrorism with the biggest threat according to the Govt

majority of the concern then was state sponsored terrorism, much like the Lockerbie bombing, that has obviously morphed since

we decided to bomb the shyt out of everything after 9/11 and some of the states have been removed/changed

 

…because we **** around in Middle East affairs and suck up to the US and Israel.

[Batman]

…because we **** around in Middle East affairs and suck up to the US and Israel.

 

yeah, its exactly that.

[pap]

yeah, its exactly that.

 

Good to see you come around, Jamie.

 

What was it like working on behalf of other foreign powers?

[Batman]

Good to see you come around, Jamie.

 

What was it like working on behalf of other foreign powers?

 

where were the islamic terrorists in the UK in the 50s/60s when they started to come over. when they probably had abject poverty/racial abuse to deal with and whilst we were at the end of our empire days carving up the middle east/suez crisis and taking land and giving land to the jews etc

 

why now? we have been miles worse years ago, with less justification.

Edited 20 August, 2014 by Batman

[TheCholulaKid]

Ignoring the insults for a minute, which is ironic that you're accusing me of hatefulness when at the same time calling someone a c*nt for having an opion different to yours, but please explain why people come to this country from these sort of places?

 

I didn't accuse you of being hateful it was an observation of GM based on his post so nothing ironic there.

 

Your explanation of why people come here 'from these sort of places' is not the issue I have with your post it's the bit after it, starting 'when they get there...' Particularly offensive is your use of the word 'they'. Who is 'they'? I guess you'll say you meant fundamentalists (and it should've been obvious to anyone reading your post - duh) You use the phrase 'many people' in your second sentence and then immediately start the next sentence with 'they' - presumably your 'they' refers to the 'many people' - if not, it's quite a leap to assume you are referring to the fraction of a percentage of Muslims who arrive on these shores with murderous intent.

 

So, why did you use the word 'they'? Either you:

 

a) deliberately used that word because you are tarring them all with the same brush (despite your protestations above)

b) used the word 'they' without thinking through the consequences of how that can (very easily) be misinterpreted

c) think you're cleverer than you actually are

 

So, which is it?

[Colinjb]

a) deliberately used that word because you are tarring them all with the same brush (despite your protestations above)

b) used the word 'they' without thinking through the consequences of how that can (very easily) be misinterpreted

c) think you're cleverer than you actually are

 

So, which is it?

 

Try option 'd'.

[Turkish]

I didn't accuse you of being hateful it was an observation of GM based on his post so nothing ironic there.

 

Your explanation of why people come here 'from these sort of places' is not the issue I have with your post it's the bit after it, starting 'when they get there...' Particularly offensive is your use of the word 'they'. Who is 'they'? I guess you'll say you meant fundamentalists (and it should've been obvious to anyone reading your post - duh) You use the phrase 'many people' in your second sentence and then immediately start the next sentence with 'they' - presumably your 'they' refers to the 'many people' - if not, it's quite a leap to assume you are referring to the fraction of a percentage of Muslims who arrive on these shores with murderous intent.

 

So, why did you use the word 'they'? Either you:

 

a) deliberately used that word because you are tarring them all with the same brush (despite your protestations above)

b) used the word 'they' without thinking through the consequences of how that can (very easily) be misinterpreted

c) think you're cleverer than you actually are

 

So, which is it?

 

Why are people getting so hung up on the use of the word "they"? last time i checked the definition was "used to refer to two or more people" so what's the problem?

 

Interesting you've used the word "them" Who is the "them" you are referring too?

[Lighthouse]

…because we **** around in Middle East affairs and suck up to the US and Israel.

 

I'm not the most politically clued up individual but since when did the UK suck up to Israel. I can't remember us having anything to do with them since we abandoned the place half a century ago. Even in Gulf War I the US convinced Israel not to get involved as they didn't want it becoming an Arab vs Jew conflict.

[Pancake]

That was 10 years ago. You're also older than you thought....

 

no GM, whatever username I happen to be using I'll always be a youthful 21.

[um pahars]

Why are people getting so hung up on the use of the word "they"? last time i checked the definition was "used to refer to two or more people" so what's the problem?

 

The problem lies with the inclusion in the preceding sentence of "many people". Following that with "they" therefore links the "they" to "many people", not just two or more.

[Turkish]

The problem lies with the inclusion in the preceding sentence of "many people". Following that with "they" therefore links the "they" to "many people", not just two or more.

 

So you disagree that there are many fudenmentalists?

 

Are there not many unhappy people in Iraq, for example?

[Polaroid Saint]

where were the islamic terrorists in the UK in the 50s/60s when they started to come over. when they probably had abject poverty/racial abuse to deal with and whilst we were at the end of our empire days carving up the middle east/suez crisis and taking land and giving land to the jews etc

 

why now? we have been miles worse years ago, with less justification.

 

Good point on the timings and a key mention of Suez...

 

...If anyone really wants to know about the recent history of Islamic fundamentalism (rather than pontificate on immigration and foreign policy), then they would do well to look up the name "Sayyid Qutb".

 

This man is at the root of Islamic 'evil' in much the same way Edward Bernays is at the root of western 'evil'. (Don't get me wrong, I don't subscribe to the 'great man theory' of history, but individuals are good markers of historical context).

 

Say again; Sayyid Qutb. Worth learning about.

[um pahars]

So you disagree that there are many fudenmentalists?

 

I'm sure there are many fundamentalists, both home & abroad, BUT they are very much a tiny minority of the Muslim community.

 

Are there not many unhappy people in Iraq, for example?

 

I'm sure there are many unhappy people in Iraq & in many other countries across the Globe.

 

 

However, your poorly written piece linked the "many" unhappy people in one sentence with the "they" in the next sentence (who you then describe in somewhat unglowing terms).

 

I would suggest that the overwhelming majority of Muslims who have come here (happy or unhappy) have not resorted to the behaviour or attitude that you suggest "they" have.