The Scottish Independence referendum

[badgerx16]

 

The stats from The Wee Blue Book surprised and staggered me. I'm assuming they're true, but in 38 of the last 68 years the Scots have been governed by a party "they" didn't vote for.

 

.

 

The same goes for Wales and probably Northern Irelend. And what about breaking it down a little further ? - what about Wandsworth, or Henly-on-Thames, they often don't get the party they voted for.

This whole exercise is is empire building by a small time opportunist who has panicked the Westminster establishment.

[Colinjb]

The same goes for Wales and probably Northern Irelend. And what about breaking it down a little further ? - what about Wandsworth, or Henly-on-Thames, they often don't get the party they voted for.

This whole exercise is is empire building by a small time opportunist who has panicked the Westminster establishment.

 

It's fine, let them go. More chance of a Tory government if they depart and that is perfectly fine by me.

[pap]

"We desperately want you to stay" sayeth the PM apparently in the Daily Mail in the morning.

 

Interesting choice of words. Dear me, they have ballsed this right up.

 

Not actually sure Cameron has got much else in his locker. He actually does "sincere" very well when he wants to; it's one of his few positive traits.

 

Now is not the time for half-measures.

 

As the Tories are pretty much universally hated in Scotland, probably not a good idea for Cameron to start lecturing them.

 

Ties into the point above. Prostration before the Scottish electorate is probably his best move. Will deserve the plaudits if he manages to turn it around.

[pap]

The same goes for Wales and probably Northern Irelend. And what about breaking it down a little further ? - what about Wandsworth, or Henly-on-Thames, they often don't get the party they voted for.

This whole exercise is is empire building by a small time opportunist who has panicked the Westminster establishment.

 

If we're to believe some of the press, the yes vote is driven by dissatisfaction with Westminster as much as any burning desire for independence. The underlying question involves whether the Westminster government is the best government for the Scots.

 

That's a question that many parts of the country will rightfully ask. Irrespective of result, I think we can expect all of the nations to be clamouring for more powers. I also think that there is a strong argument which suggests that the Westminster government is failing in many other parts of England.

 

Salmond is an opportunist, but would never got as far as he did without the indifference and incompetence of the Westminster government. A big part of their vote isn't even nationalist per se; the electorate was simply attracted by SNP policy, which was attractive to families and crucially, was actually implemented. So immediately, Salmond can legitimately point to a huge difference of priorities. We care about your kids and your health; Westminster doesn't.

 

There is a huge debate to be had over the legitimacy of the Westminster government, and its fitness for purpose in governing the whole island. Thanks to this referendum, think it may happen sooner rather than later.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I'm not a big fan of that plum Heffer, but he's hit the nail very firmly on the jocks head here.

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2750071/Why-don-t-tell-Scots-shove-In-personal-view-Mail-disagrees-SIMON-HEFFER-says-fear-English-people-think.html

[saintbletch]

The same goes for Wales and probably Northern Irelend. And what about breaking it down a little further ? - what about Wandsworth, or Henly-on-Thames, they often don't get the party they voted for.

This whole exercise is is empire building by a small time opportunist who has panicked the Westminster establishment.

 

All true badgerx16 - as I said earlier what next "Freedom for Tooting".

 

Certainly with other nations of the Union there is a valid question about independence to be asked. Northern Ireland is a different proposition for other reasons, but Wales? Yes, I could imagine that the same set of tensions relating to identity and representation exist there too.

 

The element I missed out as an influencer is of course national wealth. I guess the difference between the Scottish and the Welsh is that nobody can cobble together an argument for a self-funding nation based on exports of Welsh rarebit. Salmond has managed to convince many that Scottish oil will fund them.

 

This is also set against a backdrop of many Scots asking the question (likely prodded by the SNP) as to how, as an oil producing nation they are having their spending capacity cut. It's simplistic, but again I can see how that can be added into the melting pot of identity and representation to make many conclude they have been shafted.

[Batman]

I'm not a big fan of that plum Heffer, but he's hit the nail very firmly on the jocks head here.

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2750071/Why-don-t-tell-Scots-shove-In-personal-view-Mail-disagrees-SIMON-HEFFER-says-fear-English-people-think.html

I agree

 

I am just stunned that people actually believe Salmond so much

 

quite sad that around 2m people could (possibly) send circa 65m (the rest of the uk) into probably recession and uncertainty

 

Financial experts on the BBC generally agree that Scotland going it alone will cost them an absolute fortune and Salmond is very economical with what he says he can achieve. Very. The figures just do not add up what so ever

 

Financially, Scotland would be huge winners by voting no and getting DEVO-MAX. The rest of the UK (financially) would be fine medium-long term without scotland, where as Salmond is banking a scotlands future on depleting oil revenues. Any negotiations after a YES vote would put rUK in by far the strongest position and the main parties will have huge pressure to give very little to him.

 

 

My take on that, is that if the jocks think Westminster is screwing them over now. Should they vote yes, they may get it both barrels from London. More so as a General Election is 8 months away and Parties like UKiP, who will no doubt talk about being tough on scottish negotiations will once again, drive opinion

Edited 10 September, 2014 by Batman

[KingdomCome]

However, I'm suggesting that this palpably "real" difference between the people of England and Scotland lies less in their values and more in their sense of identity.

 

Is the difference in sense of identity enough to warrant a separation? I would suggest no, but obviously that is a subjective question to which there is no 'correct' answer. The sense of identity is something each of us feel individually but has little bearing on how we wish the country to be run. That's why I would suggest that the values are a more important consideration. What team you support, your idols and your taste in music don't really impact on your values.

 

They must then start to feel slightly disenfranchised. Not disenfranchised from the right to vote, but perhaps from the right to expect representation for "their" country's views.

 

Undoubtedly there is a sense (right or wrong) that Scots have an unfairly small voice in Westminster and are lumbered with the will of the English. That is why I feel that devolution is the more palatable option. Any decisions that impact on Scotland alone are taken in Holyrood, any decision that impacts on England alone are taken in Westminster (by English MP's alone, so this would mean taking Scottish MPs out of the voting). The difficulty lies in decisions that impact the UK as a whole, I think that those decisions must be taken in Westminster as it is the only parliament with representation of the whole of the UK.

 

The stats from The Wee Blue Book surprised and staggered me. I'm assuming they're true, but in 38 of the last 68 years the Scots have been governed by a party "they" didn't vote for.

 

You must consider that only fairly recently has power devolved to Holyrood. So although the figures may be startling, they are taken a bit out of context. The decisions by Westminster now have a much reduced direct impact on Scotland now. So the figures are perhaps best viewed as a reminder of how things used to be.

 

But surely even left-of-centre, pro-unionists must also start to question their influence? I don't know that, I'm asking the question. Perhaps you know some and can comment? If they do and have, then I can well see why they might desert the Labour Party for the SNP to get the influence they feel they need - perhaps planning to come back to Labour in an independent Scotland one day.

 

I couldn't really give a general consensus but my wife, a paid up union workplace rep is vehemently pro-union (of the UK). I think you have a very good point. An independent Scotland are much more likely to vote for a left leaning party than the UK as a whole. I would imagine this is why Labour have been losing so many voters to the Yes campaign. I also fear that the UK would jerk to the right without the weight of Scotland bringing towards centre. I'm not saying right wing is bad, but we don't want to end up like the US and have a right wing and a very right wing.

 

 

representative democracy ain't infallible.

 

ain't that the truth

 

Let's hope thy will be done.

 

In the result as it is on my ballot.

(I've used this username since joining some random little site about 12-13 years ago, for some reason I liked Dire Straits at the time...a less religious person you'd struggle to meet )

Edited 10 September, 2014 by KingdomCome

[KingdomCome]

Bloody hell, talk about wall of text. Apologies.

[Patrick Bateman]

I'm not a big fan of that plum Heffer, but he's hit the nail very firmly on the jocks head here.

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2750071/Why-don-t-tell-Scots-shove-In-personal-view-Mail-disagrees-SIMON-HEFFER-says-fear-English-people-think.html

 

That was as tedious as the Guardian articles, but just with less big words ...

 

But did he really do this? "Alex Salmond's offensive comparison of Scots voting for independence to the ending of apartheid and blacks being given the vote in South Africa took the rank dishonesty of the nationalists’ campaign to a new low yesterday."

 

[KingdomCome]

The same goes for Wales and probably Northern Irelend. And what about breaking it down a little further ? - what about Wandsworth, or Henly-on-Thames, they often don't get the party they voted for.

This whole exercise is is empire building by a small time opportunist who has panicked the Westminster establishment.

 

This is the point I'm making. The main thrust of the Yes campaign is that the people of Scotland are best placed to make decisions that affect Scotland. Sounds good, but it's open to infinite regression without losing any qualitative value. The people of my house are best placed to make decisions that affect the people of my house.

[aintforever]

I don't get why everyone in England cares so much, Scotland is tiny compared to the rest of the UK, what they do makes no difference to me.

 

It will be a shame if the UK breaks up because it has done pretty well if you look at the big picture, and the Union Jack is easily the best flag around so it would be a shame to change it. But I can see where the jocks are coming from, if they disagree that strongly with the muppets in Westminster and have the oil money to fall back on I can't blame them for wanting to go alone - good luck to them.

[Patrick Bateman]

I don't get why everyone in England cares so much, Scotland is tiny compared to the rest of the UK, what they do makes no difference to me.

 

It will be a shame if the UK breaks up because it has done pretty well if you look at the big picture, and the Union Jack is easily the best flag around so it would be a shame to change it. But I can see where the jocks are coming from, if they disagree that strongly with the muppets in Westminster and have the oil money to fall back on I can't blame them for wanting to go alone - good luck to them.

 

Why should we change the union flag?? Many countries still have the union flag in the corner of their own flag when strictly speaking, they aren't a park of the UK.

[aintforever]

Why should we change the union flag?? Many countries still have the union flag in the corner of their own flag when strictly speaking, they aren't a park of the UK.

 

Bit odd having the blue for Scotland in a flag for the UK if they are not in it.

[SO16_Saint]

I don't get why everyone in England cares so much, Scotland is tiny compared to the rest of the UK, what they do makes no difference to me.

 

It will be a shame if the UK breaks up because it has done pretty well if you look at the big picture, and the Union Jack is easily the best flag around so it would be a shame to change it. But I can see where the jocks are coming from, if they disagree that strongly with the muppets in Westminster and have the oil money to fall back on I can't blame them for wanting to go alone - good luck to them.

 

was just thinking the same... makes no difference

[Secret Site Agent]

What I like is the:

 

SALMOND 'look at all the things Scotland can achieve, with out the rest of Britain and Northern Ireland, a strong economy, a voice in the EU, and Voice in the UN, Free student places for all, free perscriptions, rich beyond our wildest dreams with North sea oil and gas, and cheap electrictiy from natural resources like our wind farms.'

 

Umm, you cant keep the pound

And,aaah, you can't be part of the EU without applying

And you will have to be recognised by the UN

And you wont be able to afford free university places.

or, umm, the free perscriptions

And North Sea oil wont last forever, and the revenue stream is quite small comparitively.

And the gas is coming from Russia

And you don't have enough sustainable energy so will need it from England in the winter.

And you will be lumbered with your part of the National Debt

And trident will have to move, so loss of jobs there

And Royal Navy ships Cannot be built in a foreign country, so loss of jobs there

And big companies, on hearing the yes vote might win, dumped stirling and will probably move out of Scotland.

 

SALMOND: Whos says?

 

Us, the rest of the world.

 

I hope they vote no and stay as part of the UK, and I don't think they would prosper as an independant country. Not forgetting, that as they are not part of the EU, there is no free movement of trade and labour.

 

My company has a scottish arm and they would just set it up under our overseas banner, but a lot of my Scottish collegues said they would look to transfer to down here.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Bit odd having the blue for Scotland in a flag for the UK if they are not in it.

 

Especially as they are the ones that made it.

[the colonel]

Why should we change the union flag?? Many countries still have the union flag in the corner of their own flag when strictly speaking, they aren't a park of the UK.

 

But if Scotland leaves Wales may well expect (and why shouldn't they) to be represented on the nation's flag. Also what do we call ourselves?

[Secret Site Agent]

But if Scotland leaves Wales may well expect (and why shouldn't they) to be represented on the nation's flag. Also what do we call ourselves?

 

I think we would be the Kingdom of Britain, (dropping the 'Great') and Northern Island.

[Batman]

Huge company bosses are now coming out saying they will "move" South should Scotland vote yes

 

The CEO of BP has said that remaining in the union is essential for future oil revenues, those revenues are depleting and that Salmond is getting it very wrong

 

Cameron has come out and said don't vote yes just to give "the effing Tories a good kicking"

[pap]

Huge company bosses are now coming out saying they will "move" South should Scotland vote yes

 

The CEO of BP has said that remaining in the union is essential for future oil revenues, those revenues are depleting and that Salmond is getting it very wrong

 

Cameron has come out and said don't vote yes just to give "the effing Tories a good kicking"

 

That's it then.

 

The public have immense respect for what corporations want.

 

Yes campaign over

 

Cameron doing well tho'. Seems like a real person.

[Batman]

http://scotlandstaywithus.wordpress.com/2014/09/02/how-yes-turned-to-no/

 

 

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/big-deceit-heart-alex-salmond-191955797.html?cmp=fb

[trousers]

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/news/291490-standard-life-plan-b-to-transfer-operations-down-south-if-yes-vote/

 

Standard Life has revealed contingency plans to move much of its operations south of the border in the event of a Yes vote.

 

The firm, which employs around 5000 people in Scotland, has said it has plans to transfer its investments business to England if Scots vote for independence in next week's referendum.

[Patrick Bateman]

Bit odd having the blue for Scotland in a flag for the UK if they are not in it.

 

Part of our history

[Gemmel]

Part of our history

 

We are Rons 22, hear the roar of the red, white and ....

[Batman]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/in-full-general-sir-richard-shirreff-s-letter-1-3526265

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/scottish-independence-country-will-have-reapply-nato-says-general-secretary-1461856

[aintforever]

But if Scotland leaves Wales may well expect (and why shouldn't they) to be represented on the nation's flag. Also what do we call ourselves?

 

Replacing the blue with a dragon would be cool.

[pap]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/in-full-general-sir-richard-shirreff-s-letter-1-3526265

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/scottish-independence-country-will-have-reapply-nato-says-general-secretary-1461856

 

If I were a new country with limited cash and a hostile ex, I'd be thinking very seriously about whether NATO is worth the money or the aggravation. Staying out could be a powerful statement in a time when NATO is bunging its weight about in its EU-acquired "buffer zone".

[Batman]

Just read that salmonds scotland will set up their own 'security service'..their own MI5/MI6 type of thing.

he also expects to automatically be part of the '5 Eyes' partnership the UK is in as 'Scots' have been part of that since it has been set up.

 

 

 

does he actually want independence or not? as it seems to want to keep a heck of a lot of things and dismiss any suggestion that separation will likely mean in separation in full.

he seems to be full of it. Going it alone but keeping the bits he wants.

 

just been reading some of Darlings and Salmonds asnwers in a Web Chat today...

 

Darling warns that having a 'foreign' country run a scottish currency is asking for a disaster

Salmond suggests the idea of a Scottish Pound....and starting from scratch as a currency...WTF, where did that come from????

Salmond will help prevent climate disaster and implement 'climate justice' in a new 'fairer' scotlant

Salmond wants the 300k young people who leave scotland each year to stay and build a new nation

Salmond pledges free child care

Darling states that a NO vote will give scotland more/full income tax powers that will allow them to do many things (like ditch the bedroom tax) more for educations and health and the timetable for that will start immediately with a NO vote

Darling dismisses that he is scaremongering just because he spells out the financial facts that are now bing back up more and more by multi national business leaders

Darlings says that small business will very much struggle in an indy scotland. with the proposed cut in corporation tax by salmond, the small businesses will suffer and those who rely on trade in England as lots of 'red tape' will suddenly get in their way

Salmond says that England is bound to see common sense and share the £ with them.....oh, ok then

Salmond wants the queen to be head of state and that most English people would like that (is he for real. he uses the term 'english' and 'westminster' a lot)

Salmond claims that scotland is easily one of the wealthiest nations on earth......jesus christ

Darling points out that Scotland can use any currency it likes but having no control over that is insane. Nations who actually do that have no where near the public services the SNP want and also have huge cash reserves for that 'rainy day'

Darling reminds that an independent scotland will have to face rUK with little appetite for any institution to be accommodating to them

Darling reminds everyone that the NHS is already completely devolved to scotland and fails to understand why people think ditching the UK will save it

Salmond dismisses BPs claims of oil on the decline saying that 'humans get it wrong'

Darling says that oil revenue is no more than 2% of the UKs income and the SNP are way over exaggerating when they say otherwise

Edited 10 September, 2014 by Batman

[SuperMikey]

Lots of misinformation going around here, especially with that Standard Life thing. They have announced that they have a contingency plan for IF they decide to move their HQ IF Scotland votes Yes and IF they feel that it's a necessary step. There's been a flood of scaremongering stories coming out in the last 48 hours or so, weirdly enough that coincided with the big push by the main political parties to ensure Scotland votes No....weird that!

[Batman]

Lots of misinformation going around here, especially with that Standard Life thing. They have announced that they have a contingency plan for IF they decide to move their HQ IF Scotland votes Yes and IF they feel that it's a necessary step. There's been a flood of scaremongering stories coming out in the last 48 hours or so, weirdly enough that coincided with the big push by the main political parties to ensure Scotland votes No....weird that!

 

probably just putting a bit of balance to the utter horse shyte salmond has been spreading for ages

[Wade Garrett]

Would it?

In what way?

 

Re 'f*cking dosh c*****'...I have no idea, I'm gonna guess yes.

 

Unfair competition for a start. I would rather they voted yes. Devo- max is having your cake and eating it.

[SuperMikey]

probably just putting a bit of balance to the utter horse shyte salmond has been spreading for ages

 

He's a politican though, and they're all c*nts. You don't have to like the man to like the cause.

[KingdomCome]

Unfair competition for a start. I would rather they voted yes. Devo- max is having your cake and eating it.

Unfair competition? I'm not following.

Devo-max may, in your opinion, be 'having your cake and eating it' but that doesn't really explain why it's bad for the rest of the UK.

[Patrick Bateman]

Just listening to Miliband going on about equality. How the f**k is it equal that they get free higher education and free prescriptions? For f**ks sake.

 

Vote yes, please do, off you all go.

[pap]

Just listening to Miliband going on about equality. How the f**k is it equal that they get free higher education and free prescriptions? For f**ks sake.

 

Vote yes, please do, off you all go.

Quite right. It should be free for everyone.

 

Sentiments like these fuel the revolution, comrade

[Patrick Bateman]

Quite right. It should be free for everyone.

 

Sentiments like these fuel the revolution, comrade

 

If London also wants independence (on London News just now - which I have to suffer even living in North Hampshire), then so do I.

 

Who is to stop me, I vote 100% yes for MY independence. Where does it stop?

 

Currency PB. 1 PB = £1m of your GBP. Bank of PB dictated the exchange rate, what can I do?

[mcjwills]

What I like is the:

 

SALMOND 'look at all the things Scotland can achieve, with out the rest of Britain and Northern Ireland, a strong economy, a voice in the EU, and Voice in the UN, Free student places for all, free perscriptions, rich beyond our wildest dreams with North sea oil and gas, and cheap electrictiy from natural resources like our wind farms.'

 

Umm, you cant keep the pound

And,aaah, you can't be part of the EU without applying

And you will have to be recognised by the UN

And you wont be able to afford free university places.

or, umm, the free perscriptions

And North Sea oil wont last forever, and the revenue stream is quite small comparitively.

And the gas is coming from Russia

And you don't have enough sustainable energy so will need it from England in the winter.

And you will be lumbered with your part of the National Debt

And trident will have to move, so loss of jobs there

And Royal Navy ships Cannot be built in a foreign country, so loss of jobs there

And big companies, on hearing the yes vote might win, dumped stirling and will probably move out of Scotland.

 

SALMOND: Whos says?

 

Us, the rest of the world.

 

I hope they vote no and stay as part of the UK, and I don't think they would prosper as an independant country. Not forgetting, that as they are not part of the EU, there is no free movement of trade and labour.

 

My company has a scottish arm and they would just set it up under our overseas banner, but a lot of my Scottish collegues said they would look to transfer to down here.

If they are not in the EU the Scots can only work here if they get a visa. We have enough EU work migrants than take those not in the EU. Vote at your peril Scotland. ?

[Batman]

Latest poll this evening put the No vote at 53% to Yes at 47%

8% swing......

 

this weekend is going to be fun up there.

[whelk]

Nailed on No. One poll has got people in a frenzy of late. William Hill have shortened 'No' odds to 1/3. Media love the fact that closer than first thought but reality if it was too close to call Hills would not allow you to treble your money.

 

US presidential election was same in so much media love the too close to call angle but Obama was nailed on to win and did easily.

[whelk]

Latest poll this evening put the No vote at 53% to Yes at 47%

8% swing......

 

this weekend is going to be fun up there.

 

Wasn't that excluding undecideds though so not to be directly compared to the poll all over Sunday papers?

[CB Fry]

In retrospect, the act of balls-out panic might just work for undecided voters.

 

Showing that "we" really do want them to stay might just plant a seed in the heads of non-political Scots that says that maybe, maybe this is all too much of a risk. If they care this much, there must be something in this union.

 

It's unedifying for Cameron and Co but it could do the business after all.

 

Plus, as mentioned yesterday, Salmond being a smug pri ck is a great recruiter for the No campaign.

Edited 10 September, 2014 by CB Fry

[ART]

Pre-1997 millions poured into Hong Kong which was the major financial hub in Asia. Hong Kong's financial success was founded by Scotsmen, so why can't a free Scotland not survive and be a major financial center. I'm sure the Swiss would agree and they don't have oil or whiskey.

[aintforever]

Good to see the England fans get behind the Yes campaign as well.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKuNXIgAxBw

[SO16_Saint]

Genuine question Batman, why are you so concened whether Scotland stay or go? Are yo pu Scottish or live in Scotland? Genuine questions, no agenda behind it

[Verbal]

Pre-1997 millions poured into Hong Kong which was the major financial hub in Asia. Hong Kong's financial success was founded by Scotsmen, so why can't a free Scotland not survive and be a major financial center. I'm sure the Swiss would agree and they don't have oil or whiskey.

 

Scotland IS a major financial centre. So much so that it, rather than the City, was the catalyst of the UK credit crunch that started in 2007. HBOS and RBS were the largest banks to be bailed out by the Bank of England. We're still a good few £billion out of pocket on that caper.

 

So by the measure of failure on an epic, capitalism-destroying scale, Scotland is already major league. Right up there with the worst.

[Batman]

Genuine question Batman, why are you so concened whether Scotland stay or go? Are yo pu Scottish or live in Scotland? Genuine questions, no agenda behind it

 

it has absolutely massive implications where I work and where I could work in the near future

[pap]

If London also wants independence (on London News just now - which I have to suffer even living in North Hampshire), then so do I.

 

Who is to stop me, I vote 100% yes for MY independence. Where does it stop?

 

Currency PB. 1 PB = £1m of your GBP. Bank of PB dictated the exchange rate, what can I do?

 

It's an interesting point. Should we blindly accept the authority of nation states? Do they carry authority in perpetuity on account of being nation states, or democracies? I'd argue not.

 

Our political system is largely redundant in the information age, unnecessarily divisive and spectacularly unaccountable. Representative democracy was supposed to be the protection from the potential mob rule of direct democracy, but its adherents have abused their roles. That's why we haven't had a referendum on Europe for 40 years, or meaningful debate on any other of the untouchables, be it foreign policy, drug policy, our status as a nuclear player, ownership of our industries.

 

Our representatives aren't representin'

 

I don't know what the long term solution is, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't involve a load of inexperienced political idealists swinging the pendulum the other way at great cost to the British public every time there's a change of government or a particularly vicious Twitter campaign. Government shouldn't be hard; defend the realm, build a society in which people get their basic Four Freedoms, and allow people to get on with it.

 

We're in a situation where state handouts are propping up full time dual income families and the government is borrowing to support that. Surely that's the alarm bell that everyone should heed. That your basic British family can't get by without help, and that it's very possible that we've a hugely imbalanced economy.

 

As an Englishman, I've got to question the legitimacy of a system that has allowed that to happen, and red or blue, through PFI or outright privatisation, is allowing more of it to happen. This £9K a year tuition fee is a discount rate. Bit by bit, we'll ascend to the lucrative heights of the £40Kpa Ivy League. Unfortunately, as a resident of England, I don't really have that choice.

 

The Scots do, and whatever happens now, it looks like they're on for a win. I know Batman is pronouncing "holy disaster", but I've never bought the idea that they won't be able to run things on their own. I'm sure it'll be made bloody hard for them, but if I was ever putting dosh on a group of people to turn around, say "fúck yis", and do it all (with great difficulty) anyway, it would be them. The deep-fried Mars bar stereotypes burn deep, but there is a long history of Scottish ingenuity and industry.

[Verbal]

there is a long history of Scottish ingenuity and industry.

 

Most of it after the Union of 1707 - including the entire Scottish Enlightenment.

[Jonnyboy]

it has absolutely massive implications where I work and where I could work in the near future

 

Bats going on the dole! La La laaa La!