The Scottish Independence referendum

[SuperMikey]

Politics aside, the ref in the Scotland vs Germany game is an absolute bellend. Never even looked like getting a 50/50 decision in our favour the whole night..

[the colonel]

I did want them to vote No but after reading about the latest proposed MP pay rise I will be well chuffed if they get cut ties with the c*nts that currently run our country.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29098334

 

£74k is a lot of money for an awful amount of people, but for the type of jpb, the hours worked and the shiiittee they take £74k is a pretty poor salary. Perhaps this is why we do not get the top people in government. Why would the best and successful people at the top of their respective industries give up their jobs to go into politics. Of course if you are successful in business doesn't automatically meet you will be a good politician but i woul have thought the odds would be greater.

 

But back on topic there is a unique relationship between the home countries unlike anywhere else. As much as we may all dig at each but when it comes down to it most would stand up next each other against foreign aggression. You only have to look at the recent Glasgow Commonwealth games, the cheers for England and the other home nations were almost as loud as for the Scots.

 

The unique relationship is arguably the most successful union in world history. Yes things in some ways are not as great as they were but this is still one hell of free nation.

 

I for one will be extremely disappointed if the vote is yes. But also the no vote has to be large enough to silence Salmond. Otherwise the campaign will drag on for years not doing any of us any good.

 

Come on Scotland vote 'NO'.

[SuperMikey]

having spent many months (probably total up to about 2 years) in and around glasgow

that place is easily the most openly bigoted city I have ever been to (and I have been to a lot)

 

I think you get a lot of anti-English sentiment, but little action based on it. Like I said before, it's fairly balanced with some of the stuff you hear down here and all over England. But hey, I guess everyone hears and sees what they want to sometimes. I'm not denying there is bigotry towards the English, but it's not a one-way street..

[Batman]

I think you get a lot of anti-English sentiment, but little action based on it. Like I said before, it's fairly balanced with some of the stuff you hear down here and all over England. But hey, I guess everyone hears and sees what they want to sometimes. I'm not denying there is bigotry towards the English, but it's not a one-way street..

 

Is this from your vast experience or just your fair minded thoughts?

[Sour Mash]

It will be a very sad day if we see the break-up of the Union for no real, decent reason.

[pap]

It will be a very sad day if we see the break-up of the Union for no real, decent reason.

 

David Cameron is betting 40% of the country and territorial integrity that it won't happen.

[Heisenberg]

having spent many months (probably total up to about 2 years) in and around glasgow

that place is easily the most openly bigoted city I have ever been to (and I have been to a lot)

 

What a complete load of boll0cks!!

[SuperMikey]

Is this from your vast experience or just your fair minded thoughts?

 

Never claimed to have "vast" experience, I can only say from what i've seen and heard. If we're going just from experience, is your opinion based on the conversations you heard echoing down the Little Chef kitchen corridor during your shift?

[Batman]

Never claimed to have "vast" experience, I can only say from what i've seen and heard. If we're going just from experience, is your opinion based on the conversations you heard echoing down the Little Chef kitchen corridor during your shift?

 

What in earth are you on about? Is that little chef thing supposed to be some sort of degrading remark?

 

My experience is from working in and around Helensburgh, ballach, Dumbarton, port Glasgow,Clydebank and going into Glasgow itself (which is not too bad)

Throw in Dunfermline, inverkeithing and of course rosyth. Edinburgh being pretty decent

 

Isle of sky, Campbeltown and Rona are pretty dodgy if you are English.

Being English up there can be like being black 30 years ago in some parts

[Goatboy]

What in earth are you on about? Is that little chef thing supposed to be some sort of degrading remark?

 

My experience is from working in and around Helensburgh, ballach, Dumbarton, port Glasgow and going into Glasgow itself (which is not too bad)

Throw in Dunfermline, inverkeithing and of course rosyth. Edinburgh being pretty decent

 

Isle of sky, Campbeltown and Rona are pretty dodgy if you are English.

Being English up there can be like being black 30 years ago in some parts

 

Were you black for several years too?

[Sour Mash]

David Cameron is betting 40% of the country and territorial integrity that it won't happen.

Did Cameron have any say if this referendum happened or not?

 

Territorial integrity? Not sure what you mean by that.

[Viking Warrior]

The yes folk are using some pretty intimidating language up here whatever social media they use .

They are even reported that Cameron had crisis talks with the queen yesterday because of the latest poll putting the yes lot marginally ahead . The truth is the Queen Meets the PM regularly when she us at balmoral and this time it was to do with the G9 summit in Wales and the commitment of British forces to a rapid response NATO force .

 

But the yes not allow for the facts to get in the way of their hype . Take oil . Speak to the Aberdeen based oil workers , several are being laid off and made redundant each week . Companies are scaling down and looking to new areas if exploration like fracking . Aberdeen will possibly become a run down city in less than 60 years

 

Salmond needs to start telling the truth

[Batman]

Plenty of people in defence with high security clearances more than likely will immediately have to give up their Scottish nationality if they want to continue at work

 

I should imagine the warships being built in Glasgow will be transferred to Portsmouth too

[View From The Top]

What in earth are you on about? Is that little chef thing supposed to be some sort of degrading remark?

 

My experience is from working in and around Helensburgh, ballach, Dumbarton, port Glasgow,Clydebank and going into Glasgow itself (which is not too bad)

Throw in Dunfermline, inverkeithing and of course rosyth. Edinburgh being pretty decent

 

Isle of sky, Campbeltown and Rona are pretty dodgy if you are English.

Being English up there can be like being black 30 years ago in some parts

 

Back in the day myself and two others were given a proper kicking in Dunfermline for being English. It was, I can assure you, a proper kicking.

[Sevvy]

Plenty of people in defence with high security clearances more than likely will immediately have to give up their Scottish nationality if they want to continue at work

 

I should imagine the warships being built in Glasgow will be transferred to Portsmouth too

 

The ships they are building in Scotland in the next few months will not be coming back to Portsmouth, there will be no more warships built in pompey, a perfectly good building facility is being broken apart and sent up to the Clyde so they can build them.

[Batman]

The ships they are building in Scotland in the next few months will not be coming back to Portsmouth, there will be no more warships built in pompey, a perfectly good building facility is being broken apart and sent up to the Clyde so they can build them.

 

Looks like barrow will be the winner

[Lord Duckhunter]

God , I do hope the opinion polls are right and they bugger off .

 

I'm sick to death of Jocks banging on about getting the "Government they didn't elect" , well you've got more chance of going to the moon in a shoe box than electing a labour MP round here, but we still ended up with Broon and Tony ( two jocks btw) . I can't work out whether they are ignorant of the electrol system in the uk or just enjoy complaining , maybe a mixture of both .

 

I would also love to see this Socialist caring utopia they are going to build , although I suspect they'll be back cap in hand within a decade. Not the Celtic tiger, more like a pussy.

 

At the end of the day , the unionists have made a complete and utter Horlicks of the campaign . Salmond's basic model is flawed in the extreme , yet the political pygmies charged with protecting the union are clueless chumps . And these clowns are running our lives?

 

I think they'll pull back from the edge , as they've got Devo Max. Therefore , all us English have to look forward to is the wonderful thought of their faces when the rest of the uk votes to leave the EU. Perhaps they can have another go and we'll end up rid of the EUSSR and the whining jocks, now that's a lovely thought. All we'll need then is to get rid of the German family in Buck House and we'll be a great democracy

[SuperMikey]

What in earth are you on about? Is that little chef thing supposed to be some sort of degrading remark?

 

My experience is from working in and around Helensburgh, ballach, Dumbarton, port Glasgow,Clydebank and going into Glasgow itself (which is not too bad)

Throw in Dunfermline, inverkeithing and of course rosyth. Edinburgh being pretty decent

 

Isle of sky, Campbeltown and Rona are pretty dodgy if you are English.

Being English up there can be like being black 30 years ago in some parts

 

I don't know why you feel you need to prove yourself and your opinion valid but if we're going down that route, I have spent the equivalent of years across my life in different parts of Scotland too - mostly in the East (from Edinburgh to Elgin and back again). I've not been witness to much of that kind of stuff, no more than you get anywhere else in the country. Simples.

[Heisenberg]

I don't know why you feel you need to prove yourself and your opinion valid but if we're going down that route, I have spent the equivalent of years across my life in different parts of Scotland too - mostly in the East (from Edinburgh to Elgin and back again). I've not been witness to much of that kind of stuff, no more than you get anywhere else in the country. Simples.

 

Ive been in Glasgow for 5 years, not witnessed any of the stuff batman talks about. I imagine he has "one of them faces" and simply blames it on being English.

[moonraker]

Plenty of people in defence with high security clearances more than likely will immediately have to give up their Scottish nationality if they want to continue at work

 

I should imagine the warships being built in Glasgow will be transferred to Portsmouth too

Not at all, I served with many Southern Irish in the RN in the 70s and 80s who had SC clearance and even higher. So many of your comments are based on little or no real knowledge where do you get this stuff from, and don't quote the fact we all know that you are submariner.

[Batman]

Not at all, I served with many Southern Irish in the RN in the 70s and 80s who had SC clearance and even higher. So many of your comments are based on little or no real knowledge where do you get this stuff from, and don't quote the fact we all know that you are submariner.

 

My comments are based on fact as due to the location of where I work in London and what I do now and the "dits" we were given in work. Some places you have to be a british national (no other) to even start the security process to even enter the facility

 

SC is a very low level of security clearance.

Things have changed since your day. Many commonwealth nationals had to give up their dual nationality to continue to work in some places/jobs

Edited 8 September, 2014 by Batman

[hutch]

Not at all, I served with many Southern Irish in the RN in the 70s and 80s who had SC clearance and even higher. So many of your comments are based on little or no real knowledge where do you get this stuff from, and don't quote the fact we all know that you are submariner.

For the avoidance of doubt

[moonraker]

My comments are based on fact as due to the location of where I work in London and what I do now and the "dits" we were given in work. Some places you have to be a british national (no other) to even start the security process to even enter the facility

 

SC is a very low level of security clearance.

Things have changed since your day. Many commonwealth nationals had to give up their dual nationality to continue to work in some places/jobs

 

Its still my day 40 years in and counting in Defence.

[Sevvy]

Looks like barrow will be the winner

Correct, they are spending a millions on the Barrow site as well.

[badgerx16]

Salmond needs to start telling the truth

 

He's a politician - he doesn't know how to.

[Batman]

Its still my day 40 years in and counting in Defence.

 

Ok. I must be lying and the gold at work must be too

[View From The Top]

Its still my day 40 years in and counting in Defence.

I know where DD is working at the mo' and what he does and I'm quite sure that he's correct allowing for his particular area of expertise.

[pap]

Can we vote to take England away from British control?

 

They're throwing the kitchen sink at the Scots to keep them in.

[Batman]

Can we vote to take England away from British control?

 

They're throwing the kitchen sink at the Scots to keep them in.

 

Just in Trafalgar Square at the mo, they very much are around here. Bag pipes etc being played and Scottish themes going on

[moonraker]

Ok. I must be lying and the gold at work must be too

I never said you were lying. As you imply any Scottish ‘nationals’ are already cleared to the highest levels including some of the GOLD you mention not sure they will immediately have to give it up especially as an Independent Scotland wont actually exist for at least 18 months it will be part of the negotiation. My point is that there will be a transition period they wont be turned out on the 18th of September. The interesting area is the deal on nuclear submarines with the USA and in that area I agree with you there could be some interesting developments.

[WindsorSaint]

Can we vote to take England away from British control?

 

They're throwing the kitchen sink at the Scots to keep them in.

 

I was firmly in the No camp, but this Devo-Max thing if they vote No is making me re-evaluate! Not that I get a say...

[ecuk268]

If the Yes lot win, will you be Scottish on the basis of residency or of birth (or some combination of both)?

[pap]

I was firmly in the No camp, but this Devo-Max thing if they vote No is making me re-evaluate! Not that I get a say...

 

Cameron's played this disastrously, imo. All along, the Nats wanted the 3rd option of Devo Max on the ballot. It's pretty much the least they'll get now. Who knows what will be offered as the week rolls on?

 

Devolution has been a great deal for the Scots, and it looks like Salmond and the Scots now wins whatever happens.

 

It's why I made my cheeky comment about England seeking independence

[pap]

Pound slumps to ten month low on the back of "yes" news.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/08/pound-slumps-scottish-yes-campaign-poll-lead

[Batman]

Cameron's played this disastrously, imo. All along, the Nats wanted the 3rd option of Devo Max on the ballot. It's pretty much the least they'll get now. Who knows what will be offered as the week rolls on?

 

Devolution has been a great deal for the Scots, and it looks like Salmond and the Scots now wins whatever happens.

 

It's why I made my cheeky comment about England seeking independence

 

many people believe that it has been milliband who has played this badly.

those that have been swayed to yes have mostly been labour voters

[pap]

many people believe that it has been milliband who has played this badly.

those that have been swayed to yes have mostly been labour voters

 

Yeah, I'm sure that when Queenie looks at her depleted rUK, it'll be Miliband she's blaming, not David Cameron and his píss-poor attempt at a Falklands moment.

[Batman]

Yeah, I'm sure that when Queenie looks at her depleted rUK, it'll be Miliband she's blaming, not David Cameron and his píss-poor attempt at a Falklands moment.

 

and off you go....

if the UK breaks up, it will all of their collective responsibility.

[pap]

and off you go....

if the UK breaks up, it will all of their collective responsibility.

 

Nonsense.

 

Labour decided to give the Scots more management of the farm.

 

Cameron, in his arrogance, decided to bet the farm...

[pap]

[Batman]

Always time to leave the discussion when pap blames everything on the Tories.

[KingdomCome]

Always time to leave the discussion when pap blames everything on the Tories.

 

tbf, the Scots are very good at blaming everything on the Tories, so no doubt the points raised by Pap have a certain level of accuracy if not truth.

[pap]

tbf, the Scots are very good at blaming everything on the Tories, so no doubt the points raised by Pap have a certain level of accuracy if not truth.

 

It's not really a huge what-aboutery point, and anyone that has seen my input knows that I'm not exactly full of praise for Labour either.

 

However, Labour did not bet the Union during their time in office. Seems mental that the Tories did, especially given the feeling toward them and especially because we're in the middle of a recession, when no-one feels particularly good about their governance. Madness.

[Batman]

It's not really a huge what-aboutery point, and anyone that has seen my input knows that I'm not exactly full of praise for Labour either.

 

However, Labour did not bet the Union during their time in office. Seems mental that the Tories did, especially given the feeling toward them and especially because we're in the middle of a recession, when no-one feels particularly good about their governance. Madness.

 

are you saying the tories should have blocked the request from the SNP

[KingdomCome]

It's not really a huge what-aboutery point, and anyone that has seen my input knows that I'm not exactly full of praise for Labour either.

 

However, Labour did not bet the Union during their time in office. Seems mental that the Tories did, especially given the feeling toward them and especially because we're in the middle of a recession, when no-one feels particularly good about their governance. Madness.

 

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Can you imagine the compounded hatred north of the border if a referendum were refused after such a landslide victory for SNP?

[Batman]

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Can you imagine the compounded hatred north of the border if a referendum were refused after such a landslide victory for SNP?

 

true.

some guardian hack was on Sky News earlier moaning how his labour party had let the SNP in up north when scotland was there stomping ground

also saying that a YES vote would mean the death of Labour as it is today. For them to even consider winning power they will at least have to go back to a Blair type labour

[pap]

are you saying the tories should have blocked the request from the SNP

 

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Can you imagine the compounded hatred north of the border if a referendum were refused after such a landslide victory for SNP?

 

Cameron could have put devo max on the table back then, if he'd been stupid enough to believe that the SNP vote was all about nationalism. It isn't. The SNP happens to offer a load of free stuff that the rest of the country doesn't get. People like free stuff, particularly if it means that their offspring don't become a plaything of bankers if they want to go to University.

 

The very canny thing about the free stuff move is that it also alienates the rest of the country. People think the Scots are taking the píss, and want them gone. Blind as well as mad there. The irony is that it's the SNP that's trying to conserve British traditions like the NHS and free higher education. Those Conservatives just don't do what they say on the tin.

[aintforever]

It's hard not to blame Cameron. In every debate on this I have watched the Scotts seem more interested in getting away from a Tory government than the UK itself.

[Batman]

I wonder if a YES vote will spark an early General Election in the rest of the UK?

Cameron will surely be numbered, milliband will probably wont have a chance without the scottish vote and clegg is done either way

 

that will leave Nigel and Boris to fill the void

[CB Fry]

I wonder if a YES vote will spark an early General Election in the rest of the UK?

Cameron will surely be numbered, milliband will probably wont have a chance without the scottish vote and clegg is done either way

 

that will leave Nigel and Boris to fill the void

 

A yes vote is going to stir up some real sh it. Will be an absolutely fascinating time in our history.

 

I can see a significant push - UKIP/Daily Mail will start it but I think they, for once, will have a point - for some kind of referendum in England/rest of UK on the currency union and all the other constitutional stuff non one has really thought about because they thought No was nailed on (fair play, I did).

 

There will be a sizeable cross-party feeling that the Scots can't just decide the future of the union alone.

 

The rest need a say too. And whatever option on the ballot paper is close enough to "suck my balls Salmond" will win by a landslide. Cuba-style currency here you come.

 

And Cameron will go down in history. His was looking like a pretty unspectacular premiership but blimey he's carving himself a right chapter now.

Edited 8 September, 2014 by CB Fry

[KelvinsRightGlove]

On the early election point.

 

Didn't the coalition bring in fixed govt terms? Thus, taken away power of govt to pick and choose when to hold an election as it suits them?

 

Im guessing there may well be some caveats or get outs, but I wonder how this could affect that. If at all.