The Scottish Independence referendum

[Batman]

well, the first reported assault has happened

 

someone was punched in the the face outside of a polling station for wearing a NO badge (he was a blind man too, apparently)

[alpine_saint]

well, the first reported assault has happened

 

someone was punched in the the face outside of a polling station for wearing a NO badge (he was a blind man too, apparently)

 

And Murray talks about negativity... These Jockos have lost all sense of reality in the last few weeks.

 

Gonna laugh my tits off as they whine as they pick up the pieces...No EU, no NATO, no currency, less oil than they expect...

[Batman]

if we are such a nasty place to live pap, why do you live here?

[pap]

I do believe that you are getting some sort of sexual satisfaction out of this..........

 

Qualify your concept of sexual satisfaction, Alps.

 

Is it sexy times with the lady, or do you simply refer to being able to tug one off without being caught by the fam?

 

People have different thresholds, y'see.

 

who gives a fyling-f**k about male national tennis pride ? Have a word with yourself...

 

Every newspaper, every year, be it Henman, Murray or Rusedski (that's how desperate we were).

[pap]

if we are such a nasty place to live pap, why do you live here?

 

Didn't say it was nasty. Said it was unfair.

 

Also full of people that can't read

[pap]

well, the first reported assault has happened

 

someone was punched in the the face outside of a polling station for wearing a NO badge (he was a blind man too, apparently)

 

I don't understand. You were saying that the yes campaign had been violent throughout.

 

How is this the first reported assault?

[Batman]

I don't understand. You were saying that the yes campaign had been violent throughout.

 

How is this the first reported assault?

first reported assault, today.

[OldNick]

And yet a far cry from what we were 60 years ago, when we genuinely cared about our citizens.

 

Do fair societies go around invading countries that haven't done anything to them, against the wishes of their people?

 

If we're so fair, cool and all that, why have so many countries wanted to fúck us off?

 

So many of those have been total successes as well...or not

[Sour Mash]

Completely. I love the way we can only pick our head of state from one family, the way that millions of voters are disenfranchised.

 

Recently, I've been most encouraged at washing the poor out of London. Gotta make room for those Russian oligarchs and Arab sheiks.

 

What have Russian Oligarchs and Arab Sheiks got to do with the poor of London?

[Sour Mash]

And yet a far cry from what we were 60 years ago, when we genuinely cared about our citizens.

 

Do fair societies go around invading countries that haven't done anything to them, against the wishes of their people?

 

If we're so fair, cool and all that, why have so many countries wanted to fúck us off?

 

 

Do you think we are a fairer, better society than the vast, vast majority of the world?

[Batman]

Do you think we are a fairer, better society than the vast, vast majority of the world?

 

he obviously doesn't. which is a shame

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/8995

 

Interesting take on the polls

[Whitey Grandad]

Completely. I love the way we can only pick our head of state from one family, the way that millions of voters are disenfranchised.

 

Recently, I've been most encouraged at washing the poor out of London. Gotta make room for those Russian oligarchs and Arab sheiks.

 

Many of these 'poor' have travelled across continents in order to get here. Have you been to London lately?

[pap]

What have Russian Oligarchs and Arab Sheiks got to do with the poor of London?

 

They're buying shítloads of property, driving costs of property up.

 

Dovetailed with the Tory "we won't pay more than £400 p.w. HB", the poor are being driven out of London.

 

I love to educate, as you know - I thank you for this opportunity

 

Do you think we are a fairer, better society than the vast, vast majority of the world?

 

Not really. The economy is configured to run on debt. Huge democratic deficit, both in the way we "choose" our head of state and elect our Parliamentarians. 70% of all land being in the hands of 200,000 people, while families live in shít while waiting a decade for social housing. National industries defunded, made to look shít, and sold off to private industries at a knock-down price. It's set up for the rich.

 

Doesn't sound fair to me.

 

he obviously doesn't. which is a shame

 

It is, but not for whatever reasons you're conjuring.

[Batman]

Pap

 

give us 10 nations on earth you wished you lived with your family and worked right now

[Whitey Grandad]

National industries defunded, made to look shít, and sold off to private industries at a knock-down price. It's set up for the rich.

 

You're obviously far too young to remember let alone suffer from the nationalised industries

[pap]

You're obviously far too young to remember let alone suffer from the nationalised industries

 

What, like Royal Mail, the railways or the NHS?

[farawaysaint]

Pap

 

give us 10 nations on earth you wished you lived with your family and worked right now

 

To be fair, the UK is outside of the top 10 safest and the top 10 most free. However, the UK do have the 7th highest average wage worldwide, the 6th best schooling on average and the best national healthcare system in the world.

 

The UK is a very desirable place to live by most metrics, it all depends on what you want in life.

[pap]

To be fair, the UK is outside of the top 10 safest and the top 10 most free. However, the UK do have the 7th highest average wage worldwide, the 6th best schooling on average and the best national healthcare system in the world.

 

The UK is a very desirable place to live by most metrics, it all depends on what you want in life.

 

Somewhere to live within your budget?

[farawaysaint]

Somewhere to live within your budget?

 

Work in the UK and retire third world

 

Agreed though, the cost of living is ridiculous, it's best to earn forex and stay somewhere with a favourable exchange rate then laugh all the way to the bank.

[OldNick]

What, like Royal Mail, the railways or the NHS?

like Whitehall, MOD and local government, all are inefficient and wasteful. If you were transported back in time to when the nationalised industries were at their peak you would understand why we dont believe it to be the eutopia you think it is

[Whitey Grandad]

What, like Royal Mail, the railways or the NHS?

 

What about them?

[pap]

John Oliver ( bloody excellent). He wants a No, btw.

 

[video=youtube;-YkLPxQp_y0]

Edited 18 September, 2014 by pap

[Verbal]

Completely. I love the way we can only pick our head of state from one family, the way that millions of voters are disenfranchised.

 

Recently, I've been most encouraged at washing the poor out of London. Gotta make room for those Russian oligarchs and Arab sheiks.

 

The poor have been in the process of being washed out of London since the 1980s, when Thatcher sold off council housing, and up to the present day, with various wonderful measures including the spare room tax, having forced poor people to the edges of the city and beyond.

 

The poor are decidedly not making way for the 'Russian oligarchs and Arab sheiks' - this is xenophobic, playing-to-the-gallery nonsense. At no point in London's modern history would the two sets have been competing for the same property!

 

So we have to look much more closely to home to find the reasons for these exclusions. UK government welfare, health and housing policies are driving this.

[pap]

The poor have been in the process of being washed out of London since the 1980s, when Thatcher sold off council housing, and up to the present day, with various wonderful measures including the spare room tax, having forced poor people to the edges of the city and beyond.

 

The poor are decidedly not making way for the 'Russian oligarchs and Arab sheiks' - this is xenophobic, playing-to-the-gallery nonsense. At no point in London's modern history would the two sets have been competing for the same property!

 

Perhaps a little, but the market is largely set by what it'll bear. Sheiks and oligarchs bear a lot of cash, and dictate the top end of the market.

[pap]

What about them?

 

Nationalised industries, either recently privatised or in the process of privatisation.

 

National railways are now just a private sector tax on commuters. Perversely, London, which is the most expensive city in the country, has some of the cheapest and most effective public transport. Still in public ownership.

[sadoldgit]

The pessimist in me think the YES will win.

 

Andy Murray has come out in favour of YES this morning.

 

One thing is for sure, never heard "Westminster" being mentioned as much as I have in the last couple of weeks

 

Either way tomorrow, change is coming for all of us.

 

One thing that generally irks me, the way many of them bleat on up there, you could be mistaken for thinking they live in soviet Russia or down town Syria given how oppressed they think they are

 

It's the UK ffs

 

Oh well, if Andy Murray has come out for Yes its all over! No doubt Mel Gibson will make a film about this momentous moment in years to come and play the brave Andy himself.

[sadoldgit]

Swingball? Fúck off. That's my swingball now!

 

 

Brand is clearly an intelligent bloke and makes many good points. Sadly though he comes across like a GCSE student on speed.

[Foxy]

like Whitehall, MOD and local government, all are inefficient and wasteful. If you were transported back in time to when the nationalised industries were at their peak you would understand why we dont believe it to be the eutopia you think it is

 

In the interests of balance, my experience if big business is that it can equally wasteful. It's not a system that's inherently inefficient but how it's executed. I'm not convinced, by way of an example that Swiss Railways are worse than First Great Western or Amtrak

[Lorne Malvo]

Brand is clearly an intelligent bloke

 

 

He clearly isn't. We can all sit and take the ****** out of things, but he never really gives any solutions to anything from what I have seen of him in the past.

[pap]

Brand is clearly an intelligent bloke and makes many good points. Sadly though he comes across like a GCSE student on speed.

 

Always has done. I first saw him on Big Brother's Big Mouth.

 

Actually thought it was coke at the time.

 

Very strange world when he talks more sense than most elected officials though.

[pap]

In the interests of balance, my experience if big business is that it can equally wasteful. It's not a system that's inherently inefficient but how it's executed. I'm not convinced, by way of an example that Swiss Railways are worse than First Great Western or Amtrak

 

Nationalised industries can also make money, just as EDF did when it took £1.6Bn in profit from the UK market alone.

[sadoldgit]

 

He clearly isn't. We can all sit and take the ****** out of things, but he never really gives any solutions to anything from what I have seen of him in the past.

 

Valid point. On the Andy Murray point - I love it when they wheel out celebrities on these occasions. I wonder if he would be happy to stay in an independent Scotland if they hiked up their tax rates for the top earners? I remember all of our patriotic rock heroes b*ggering off to tax havens in the 70s and 80s. Sean Connery used to talk a lot about Scottish independence from his luxury home abroad didn't he?

[pap]

Valid point. On the Andy Murray point - I love it when they wheel out celebrities on these occasions. I wonder if he would be happy to stay in an independent Scotland if they hiked up their tax rates for the top earners? I remember all of our patriotic rock heroes b*ggering off to tax havens in the 70s and 80s. Sean Connery used to talk a lot about Scottish independence from his luxury home abroad didn't he?

 

Behave yourself.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/07/celebrities-open-letter-scotland-independence-full-text

[sadoldgit]

Always has done. I first saw him on Big Brother's Big Mouth.

 

Actually thought it was coke at the time.

 

Very strange world when he talks more sense than most elected officials though.

 

Sadly the very words "elected officials" tell you all you need to know given the vast majority of them are just plain awful. How many would you want to listen to? Churchill, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Mandela, Bevan...can't think of many more who have said anything worth listening to over the years. We used to have something called a "soundbite" - now we just get streams of self interest buried in boring rhetoric and drivel. As an American friend of mine would say, "Blah,blah,blah."

[sadoldgit]

Behave yourself.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/07/celebrities-open-letter-scotland-independence-full-text

 

LOL. I'll see your Andy Murray and raise you a Ben Fogle and dozens of other people who don't have a proper job! Gotta love celebs!!!

[pap]

Sadly the very words "elected officials" tell you all you need to know given the vast majority of them are just plain awful. How many would you want to listen to? Churchill, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Mandela, Bevan...can't think of many more who have said anything worth listening to over the years. We used to have something called a "soundbite" - now we just get streams of self interest buried in boring rhetoric and drivel. As an American friend of mine would say, "Blah,blah,blah."

 

JFK

[pap]

Divide and row

 

[sadoldgit]

JFK

 

Yep, another one. Sadly many of those amazing orators got themselves assassinated! Tells you something about the plant we live on!

 

What worries me about referendums is the lack of proper knowledge that the people making the decisions have given the power they hold. Listening to debates about the situation in my local pub (I live in England) is scary. It will be the same with membership of the EU. John Lennon used to sing about "power to the people" which is all well and good but when a large majority of the people don't really have a grasp on the facts it is a recipe for disaster. I wonder if David Cameron is thinking that the referendum was such a good idea this morning?

[pap]

Yep, another one. Sadly many of those amazing orators got themselves assassinated! Tells you something about the plant we live on!

 

What worries me about referendums is the lack of proper knowledge that the people making the decisions have given the power they hold. Listening to debates about the situation in my local pub (I live in England) is scary. It will be the same with membership of the EU. John Lennon used to sing about "power to the people" which is all well and good but when a large majority of the people don't really have a grasp on the facts it is a recipe for disaster. I wonder if David Cameron is thinking that the referendum was such a good idea this morning?

 

Turn the power to the have-nots

Then came the shot....

 

[CB Saint]

70% of all land being in the hands of 200,000 people, while families live in shít while waiting a decade for social housing. .

 

 

This stat is a bit disingenuous and make you sound like a commie. You are including people who own 100,000 acres plus of Scottish mountains. I am willing to bet that there is not a huge demand for social or affordable housing halfway up a Scottish Alp.

[pap]

This stat is a bit disingenuous and make you sound like a commie. You are including people who own 100,000 acres plus of Scottish mountains. I am willing to bet that there is not a huge demand for social or affordable housing halfway up a Scottish Alp.

 

It's only disingenuous if it's untrue. Yes, of course I'm including the whole country.

 

Should I not have?

[Verbal]

Perhaps a little, but the market is largely set by what it'll bear. Sheiks and oligarchs bear a lot of cash, and dictate the top end of the market.

 

A little? You think government policies on taxation, housing (including the sustained erosion of social housing, especially in London), benefits and health have only a LITTLE bearing on the exodus of the poor from London? You think that the relentless redistribution of wealth from poor to rich through government policy over the last 40 years, and accelerated by the credit crunch, has only a LITTLE to do with it? You think that the failure to build even a fraction of the housing needed, in London especially, has only a LITTLE to do with this exclusion?

 

Again - and it's slightly incredible that this needs saying again - oligarchs and sheiks, and low-paid and unemployed people, do not compete for the same properties! Furthermore, the 'super-prime' market exists in a world of its own in London. (It's actually been falling heavily this year, which has had no bearing on London prices generally).

 

No wonder the Scots want out.

[pap]

A little? You think government policies on taxation, housing (including the sustained erosion of social housing, especially in London), benefits and health have only a LITTLE bearing on the exodus of the poor from London? You think that the relentless redistribution of wealth from poor to rich through government policy over the last 40 years, and accelerated by the credit crunch, has only a LITTLE to do with it? You think that the failure to build even a fraction of the housing needed, in London especially, has only a LITTLE to do with this exclusion?

 

All valid points. Why so angry today? Stuck in York with your dunderheaded provincial pals? In those awful sixties buildings? I sympathise. I literally wouldn't send my kid there.

 

Again - and it's slightly incredible that this needs saying again - oligarchs and sheiks, and low-paid and unemployed people, do not compete for the same properties! Furthermore, the 'super-prime' market exists in a world of its own in London. (It's actually been falling heavily this year, which has had no bearing on London prices generally).

 

No wonder the Scots want out.

 

Foreign money has radically changed the London property market. It's a basic supply and demand situation. Sheiks and oligarchs might not be hoovering up low cost housing in London (is there any?), but they are investing heavily in office space, property in decent areas and business.

 

On the property front, they've been chasing prime locations in desirable areas. This pushes professionals into traditionally poorer areas, so while the poor may not be competing with sheiks and barons, they are competing with relatively well paid professionals who are chasing cheaper rents.

 

http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/2014/04/gentrification-london

 

It has a huge bearing, ta. Just not as direct as it needs to be for your mind to grasp it.

[sadoldgit]

Probably as well that I am not voting as I have a very simplistic view of the situation. We are where we are because of hundreds of years of power struggles. Boundaries and discussions about power have been going on for centuries. At some point it is not unreasonable to say this is where we are. That point is long gone for me. Yes, by all means talk about the way that power/economics etc work across GB. But to take a vote on Scottish independence in 2014 makes no sense in the very complicated world we live it nowadays.

[pap]

Probably as well that I am not voting as I have a very simplistic view of the situation. We are where we are because of hundreds of years of power struggles. Boundaries and discussions about power have been going on for centuries. At some point it is not unreasonable to say this is where we are. That point is long gone for me. Yes, by all means talk about the way that power/economics etc work across GB. But to take a vote on Scottish independence in 2014 makes no sense in the very complicated world we live it nowadays.

 

Personally, I think that questioning the legitimacy of your authority is a civic duty in a democracy. If the union is a marriage, then the Westminster-led government has been an abusing spouse, not just to Scotland, but to much of the country.

 

I know quite a few Northerners that'd love to have more regional powers. Of course, the really interesting thing is that localism is one of the things that the Tories really wanted to push, enshrined in the Localism Act of 2011. That there is an implicit admission that Westminster isn't doing a job, or isn't suitable for local matters.

[Whitey Grandad]

Personally, I think that questioning the legitimacy of your authority is a civic duty in a democracy. If the union is a marriage, then the Westminster-led government has been an abusing spouse, not just to Scotland, but to much of the country.

 

I know quite a few Northerners that'd love to have more regional powers. Of course, the really interesting thing is that localism is one of the things that the Tories really wanted to push, enshrined in the Localism Act of 2011. That there is an implicit admission that Westminster isn't doing a job, or isn't suitable for local matters.

 

London drives the UK and I can't see that changing.

[pap]

London drives the UK and I can't see that changing.

 

If there was ever a catalyst for change, this would be it.

 

If it were me, I'd move the capital and force the issue.

[View From The Top]

Totally unscientific poll at work.

 

Asked 120 L2 & L3 Business or IT students what momentous event was happening today.

 

Only 52 mention the referendum.

 

Of those 52, when asked whether Scotland should become independent, 35 said yes, 12 said no and 5 don't care.

 

Of staff, when asked the question that is on the ballot paper. 44 said yes and 16 said no.

[farawaysaint]

Totally unscientific poll at work.

 

Asked 120 L2 & L3 Business or IT students what momentous event was happening today.

 

Only 52 mention the referendum.

 

Of those 52, when asked whether Scotland should become independent, 35 said yes, 12 said no and 5 don't care.

 

Of staff, when asked the question that is on the ballot paper. 44 said yes and 16 said no.

 

Youth will always vote for change, it's the older voters that will be voting no if I was to guess.