The Scottish Independence referendum

[alpine_saint]

Fair play to Batman for sticking his neck out, but that sounds like a list of what he wants for Christmas, rather than any serious (and sourced) political viewpoint.

 

Where as you, my fine Scousehampton friend, come across like a condescending arse.

 

As if anyone in their right mind would want Gordon Brown back in any form of public office...

 

I subscribe to the opinion that the UK has changed forever as a result of this event, irrespective of whether Thursday yields a "YES" or a "NO". For one thing, if there is a "NO", once the details of the kowtowing bribe come out, the English will despise the Scots more than they do now. A lot more.

[Big Bad Bob]

Good luck to the Scots on Thursday, I hope they show the courage not to be bullied by the establishment & state institutions, and make their own decision based on what they believe is best for them, their families and their common man.

 

Everyone seems to be banging on about UK wealth, prosperity et al, conveniently forgetting the 1,000,000 people reliant on food banks (in supposedly one of the richest countries on earth).

 

We tell them they will not be able to run their own 'welfare state', whilst we forget the 1,000,000 odd youngsters out of all education, training or gainful employment.

 

The 'one percent' of our nation have more wealth than the rest of the country combined, whilst we all sit back and watch the ideological privatisation of our countries resources, ironically being sold off to the one percent.

 

Our police see fit to produce a European arrest warrant, to throw the parents in jail, of a boy who is being denied potentially lifesaving cancer therapy. The same police 'force' who let a boy drown to death in a lake as the police in attendance stood by and waited 15 minutes for healthy and safety clearance.

 

Our communities are being disenfranchised in the name of jihad, whilst we all sit back and watch our rights and freedoms slowly dissolve under the guise of national security.

 

Good luck to Scotland!

 

What a load of sanctimonious guff that has little or nothing to do with the referendum!

[Whitey Grandad]

Good luck to the Scots on Thursday, I hope they show the courage not to be bullied by the establishment & state institutions, and make their own decision based on what they believe is best for them, their families and their common man.

 

Everyone seems to be banging on about UK wealth, prosperity et al, conveniently forgetting the 1,000,000 people reliant on food banks (in supposedly one of the richest countries on earth).

 

We tell them they will not be able to run their own 'welfare state', whilst we forget the 1,000,000 odd youngsters out of all education, training or gainful employment.

 

The 'one percent' of our nation have more wealth than the rest of the country combined, whilst we all sit back and watch the ideological privatisation of our countries resources, ironically being sold off to the one percent.

 

Our police see fit to produce a European arrest warrant, to throw the parents in jail, of a boy who is being denied potentially lifesaving cancer therapy. The same police 'force' who let a boy drown to death in a lake as the police in attendance stood by and waited 15 minutes for healthy and safety clearance.

 

Our communities are being disenfranchised in the name of jihad, whilst we all sit back and watch our rights and freedoms slowly dissolve under the guise of national security.

 

Good luck to Scotland!

 

It was a government run by Scots that has driven Britain into this state.

 

Oh, food banks. If you give away free food then don't be surprised if people queue up to get it. They are not 'reliant'.

[scotty]

It was a government run by Scots that has driven Britain into this state.

 

Oh, food banks. If you give away free food then don't be surprised if people queue up to get it, especially in Scotland. They are not 'reliant', but they are extremely frugal.

 

Agrees/w whitey.

[View From The Top]

It was a government run by Scots that has driven Britain into this state.

 

Oh, food banks. If you give away free food then don't be surprised if people queue up to get it. They are not 'reliant'.

 

Is your medication fuucking with your brain?

 

I saw a foodbank in action for the 1st time last summer in Smethwick and to even suggest that these people weren't down to the bones of their arse shows you are utterly clueless.

 

I saw need, want and shame in equal measures as they queued for bread, beans and the like, mostly own label basic stuff that the majority of us wouldn't feed to the dog.

 

Yes some ****ts will get something for nothing but those I saw were certainly reliant. I felt ashamed that it was happening in my country and now regularly donate food to one in Stoke.

[ART]

FROM THE HEART OF MONTPELLIER TODAY

As promised, Remi Guillard is beginning his # dickchallenge: "Get out your D*cks as a poem ... For a free Scotland.

"I nominate Prince Charles, William and Harry, all my subscribers Youtube, Facebook and Twitter. All together now and let's stuff their a*rses!"

 

[pap]

Where as you, my fine Scousehampton friend, come across like a condescending arse.

 

As if anyone in their right mind would want Gordon Brown back in any form of public office...

 

I subscribe to the opinion that the UK has changed forever as a result of this event, irrespective of whether Thursday yields a "YES" or a "NO". For one thing, if there is a "NO", once the details of the kowtowing bribe come out, the English will despise the Scots more than they do now. A lot more.

 

That's fine. I am one.

 

Doesn't change anything I've said.

[hypochondriac]

Is your medication fuucking with your brain?

 

I saw a foodbank in action for the 1st time last summer in Smethwick and to even suggest that these people weren't down to the bones of their arse shows you are utterly clueless.

 

I saw need, want and shame in equal measures as they queued for bread, beans and the like, mostly own label basic stuff that the majority of us wouldn't feed to the dog.

 

Yes some ****ts will get something for nothing but those I saw were certainly reliant. I felt ashamed that it was happening in my country and now regularly donate food to one in Stoke.

 

Poverty doesn't exist in this country. Go to Kenya and see it for yourself.

[Whitey Grandad]

Is your medication fuucking with your brain?

 

I saw a foodbank in action for the 1st time last summer in Smethwick and to even suggest that these people weren't down to the bones of their arse shows you are utterly clueless.

 

I saw need, want and shame in equal measures as they queued for bread, beans and the like, mostly own label basic stuff that the majority of us wouldn't feed to the dog.

 

Yes some ****ts will get something for nothing but those I saw were certainly reliant. I felt ashamed that it was happening in my country and now regularly donate food to one in Stoke.

 

Well, if they were smartly dressed they wouldn't qualify, would they?

[The Majestic Channon]

It was a government run by Scots that has driven Britain into this state.

 

Oh, food banks. If you give away free food then don't be surprised if people queue up to get it. They are not 'reliant'.

Spoken like a true ****ing Tory..

[Whitey Grandad]

Spoken like a true ****ing Tory..

 

I am neither one thing nor the other.

 

Why the abuse?

[aintforever]

Oh, food banks. If you give away free food then don't be surprised if people queue up to get it. They are not 'reliant'.

 

That's the sort of attitude which makes Scotland want to cut ties with England.

[pap]

Spoken like a true ****ing Tory..

 

Scotland might be the place to move to if they are successful in securing their own left-wing utopia!

 

Somewhat more seriously, check these f**king morons. "Fed up with subsidising them!", they say - forgetting that Scotland aren't actually subsidised and that English and Welsh citizens are being royally f**ked over on what used to be basic entitlements, or at the very least, long term investment in the country.

 

Turkeys that can't even be arsed waiting for Christmas to get roasted.

 

Welcome to corporatist Britain. Reactionary Tories are its cheerleaders.

[The Majestic Channon]

I am neither one thing nor the other.

 

Why the abuse?

Apologies

[Batman]

Scotland might be the place to move to if they are successful in securing their own left-wing utopia!

 

Somewhat more seriously, check these f**king morons. "Fed up with subsidising them!", they say - forgetting that Scotland aren't actually subsidised and that English and Welsh citizens are being royally f**ked over on what used to be basic entitlements, or at the very least, long term investment in the country.

 

Turkeys that can't even be arsed waiting for Christmas to get roasted.

 

Welcome to corporatist Britain. Reactionary Tories are its cheerleaders.

 

will you be moving up there if they vote yes...in say, the next few year?

(serious question)

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

 

..... I subscribe to the opinion that the UK has changed forever as a result of this event, irrespective of whether Thursday yields a "YES" or a "NO".

 

I kind of agree with this - even should the 'No' side win on Thursday in the wake of all this damaging division it remains to be seen whether the UK can ever be made quite the same relatively harmonious nation it was again. Should the 'Yes' camp win then the UK (as we know it) is dead. But with Scots opinion split right down the middle whoever wins the result will I think leave of residue of bitterness behind it that will likely lead to calls for yet another referendum to be held before very long - indeed I suspect the separatists will agitate for more vote's until they eventually get the result they are looking for.

 

It would probably have been better if this damn referendum had never been held in the first place - perhaps had Westminster offered the degree of enhanced devolution to Scotland that is now on the table we could have avoided this mess. Better still a root and branch reform of the constitution - with a separate national parliament for England being established to work alongside and with the existing Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Ireland versions under some kind of 'Federal' Westminster administration might have produced a satisfactory answer to the notorious 'West Lothian' question at long last - at a cost of even more bureaucracy and administrative expense course.

 

However as far as I can see there was/is little apatite for that in England, but that is a 'bullet' we are probable going to have to 'bite' one day if we want to create a truly stable and harmonious union again on these islands of ours.

[Whitey Grandad]

Apologies

 

Very generous of you sir!

[Whitey Grandad]

Scotland might be the place to move to if they are successful in securing their own left-wing utopia!

 

Somewhat more seriously, check these f**king morons. "Fed up with subsidising them!", they say - forgetting that Scotland aren't actually subsidised and that English and Welsh citizens are being royally f**ked over on what used to be basic entitlements, or at the very least, long term investment in the country.

 

Turkeys that can't even be arsed waiting for Christmas to get roasted.

 

Welcome to corporatist Britain. Reactionary Tories are its cheerleaders.

 

How do you work that out?

[Batman]

Edited 16 September, 2014 by Batman

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I kind of agree with this - even should the 'No' side win on Thursday in the wake of all this damaging division it remains to be seen whether the UK can ever be made quite the same relatively harmonious nation it was again. Should the 'Yes' camp win then the UK (as we know it) is dead. But with Scots opinion split right down the middle whoever wins the result will I think leave of residue of bitterness behind it that will likely lead to calls for yet another referendum to be held before very long - indeed I suspect the separatists will agitate for more vote's until they eventually get the result they are looking for.

 

It would probably have been better if this damn referendum had never been held in the first place - perhaps had Westminster offered the degree of enhanced devolution to Scotland that is now on the table we could have avoided this mess. Better still a root and branch reform of the constitution - with a separate national parliament for England being established to work alongside and with the existing Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Ireland versions under some kind of 'Federal' Westminster administration might have produced a satisfactory answer to the notorious 'West Lothian' question at long last - at a cost of even more bureaucracy and administrative expense course.

 

However as far as I can see there was/is little apatite for that in England, but that is a 'bullet' we are probable going to have to 'bite' one day if we want to create a truly stable and harmonious union again on these islands of ours.

 

I think there is still a chance of a 'firm' no and this could resolve the issue for a generation. A close vote will see a slow decline for Scotland, as business pulls out gradually in anticipation of another vote in a decade.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Scotland might be the place to move to if they are successful in securing their own left-wing utopia!

 

Somewhat more seriously, check these f**king morons. "Fed up with subsidising them!", they say - forgetting that Scotland aren't actually subsidised and that English and Welsh citizens are being royally f**ked over on what used to be basic entitlements, or at the very least, long term investment in the country.

 

Turkeys that can't even be arsed waiting for Christmas to get roasted.

 

Welcome to corporatist Britain. Reactionary Tories are its cheerleaders.

 

Yup, the People's Scotland they could make it like Venezuela or Belarus or North Korea. They can look to Hollandes France and see what happens when you run out of people to tax. Bashing business and the wealth creators always wins vote but sadly does not pay the bills.

[pap]

will you be moving up there if they vote yes...in say, the next few year?

(serious question)

 

I've no plans to, but I wouldn't rule it out at this stage. Why would I? Little is known about what an independent Scotland might be, what sort of incentives they'd have on offer. Too late for me and my family, but if you're middle-class and have a litter of smart little sprogs, moving to a stable Scotland would effectively give the lot of them a financial head start.

 

Wait and see is a perfectly fine option, I reckon.

[pap]

How do you work that out?

 

They generate 9.4% of the tax take with 8.4% of the population, for starters.

[buctootim]

Scotland are heavily in deficit - around £12bn on expenditure of £64 in 2012/13. http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2014/03/7888

[pap]

Yup, the People's Scotland they could make it like Venezuela or Belarus or North Korea. They can look to Hollandes France and see what happens when you run out of people to tax. Bashing business and the wealth creators always wins vote but sadly does not pay the bills.

 

That menu you're ordering off not looking a little stale, Sergei Gotsmanov?

 

Not tired of only ever eating corporate-sponsored neo-liberal slop for dinner and debt for dessert?

 

You're a stoic fellow with a cast-iron stomach, I'll give you that.

[Bearsy]

Question: If this does happen, who has to take the welsh?

 

srs question no trolls pls

[Sour Mash]

I've no plans to, but I wouldn't rule it out at this stage. Why would I? Little is known about what an independent Scotland might be, what sort of incentives they'd have on offer. Too late for me and my family, but if you're middle-class and have a litter of smart little sprogs, moving to a stable Scotland would effectively give the lot of them a financial head start.

 

Wait and see is a perfectly fine option, I reckon.

 

Lets see how many middle class English families move up to Scotland! Traffic will all be going the other way.

[Sour Mash]

They generate 9.4% of the tax take with 8.4% of the population, for starters.

 

But it's how much government spending they get back in return that's the question.

[pap]

Scotland are heavily in deficit - around £12bn on expenditure of £64 in 2012/13. http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2014/03/7888

A situation they can do a lot more about after independence. Better share of oil dosh, ability to raise revenue in any way they see fit.

 

Whatever deficit probs Scotland have now may seem trivial compared to what rUK's might be.

 

http://www.wealthynation.org/the-power-of-scotland/

[buctootim]

A situation they can do a lot more about after independence. Better share of oil dosh, ability to raise revenue in any way they see fit.

 

Whatever deficit probs Scotland have now may seem trivial compared to what rUK's might be.

 

http://www.wealthynation.org/the-power-of-scotland/

 

You either haven't read or haven't understood the document. Even including North sea oil and gas revenue Scotland is heavily in deficit, more so than the rest of the UK. Oil and gas income is projected to continue to decline.

 

 

Edited 16 September, 2014 by buctootim

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Interesting to see that tonight's 'Scotland Decides' debate on the BBC is between Alex Salmond and Gordon Brown - not Alistair Darling you will note. As I asked for Gordon Brown to (de facto) take over the 'Better Together' leadership I wholeheartedly approve of course, but this is a sure sign of just how important it is that Labour voters are won round to the cause of the union in these last few days of the campaign.

 

Indeed it may not be too strong to say that the future of the union may depend upon this.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

That menu you're ordering off not looking a little stale, Sergei Gotsmanov?

 

Not tired of only ever eating corporate-sponsored neo-liberal slop for dinner and debt for dessert?

 

You're a stoic fellow with a cast-iron stomach, I'll give you that.

 

Unfortunately that is realism. You only raise living standards by creating wealth and you have to incentivise people to come and create wealth. Unfortunately the side effect of such a society is you have some very rich people at the top.

[pap]

You either haven't read or haven't understood the document. Even including North sea oil and gas revenue Scotland is heavily in deficit, more so than the rest of the UK. Oil and gas income is projected to continue to decline.

 

 

 

Yeah yeah, narrow the argument to oil dosh after I'd already incorporated revenue raising powers into my position. Nowt to stop Scotland from doing a Colorado after independence, there's a huge cost off your copper budget and a new source of revenue right there. Taxation and tourism

 

I'm sure the OBR is utterly apolitical too.

 

Both problems with the "no" lot. Eat up any shít that's thrown into the box they're thinking in.

 

Independence offers leeway that some just can't conjure, it would seem.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I'd love to see how the sweatys are going to fund paps utopia , when they'll be pay Greek levels of debt interest . Anyone who thinks an independent Scotland will be borrowing at currant uk interest rates is deluded

[Whitey Grandad]

They generate 9.4% of the tax take with 8.4% of the population, for starters.

 

Have you included oil revenues in that? At the moment it's UK oil, not just Scotland's.

[Batman]

more ugly scenes from the YESsers.

 

investigations of harrassment, vandalism and of course, chasing milliband out of a shopping centre

[pap]

I'd love to see how the sweatys are going to fund paps utopia , when they'll be pay Greek levels of debt interest . Anyone who thinks an independent Scotland will be borrowing at currant uk interest rates is deluded

 

Those chains of debt chafing at all?

 

This irrational belief is what replaced religion, people.

[Whitey Grandad]

I'd love to see how the sweatys are going to fund paps utopia , when they'll be pay Greek levels of debt interest . Anyone who thinks an independent Scotland will be borrowing at currant uk interest rates is deluded

 

Different credit rating for a start.

[Batman]

I wonder what would have been made if the vandalism and harassment was done by the pro-union side......?

 

a great deal more I suspect. Definitely from the likes of pap

[pap]

I wonder what would have been made if the vandalism and harassment was done by the pro-union side......?

 

a great deal more I suspect. Definitely from the likes of pap

You reckon that British Asian nipper was comfy when accosted by those Rangers fans? Especially when they told him to move to Wales because England has too many immigrants?

[Batman]

You reckon that British Asian nipper was comfy when accosted by those Rangers fans? Especially when they told him to move to Wales because England has too many immigrants?

 

everyone who is up there, locals, reporters etc are all reporting that although ugly scenes are seen from both sides. it is overwhelmingly from the yessers on a far bigger scale

 

I know you dont like that but it seems to be the case

[pap]

everyone who is up there, locals, reporters etc are all reporting that although ugly scenes are seen from both sides. it is overwhelmingly from the yessers on a far bigger scale

 

I know you dont like that but it seems to be the case

And for the sake of argument, how do you know these are genuine yes men and not agent provocateurs?

[hypochondriac]

And for the sake of argument, how do you know these are genuine yes men and not agent provocateurs?

 

Please don't spout your conspiracy stuff all over another thread again please.

[pap]

Please don't spout your conspiracy stuff all over another thread again please.

 

It's a perfectly legitimate question. The UK has got a long history of infiltrating political movements, including recent ones.

 

Do you seriously reckon we'd target the likes Camp for Climate and leave the Yes Campaign, the thing that breaks up the Union alone?

 

I think you need more chats with your Arab relatives

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Unfortunately that is realism. You only raise living standards by creating wealth and you have to incentivise people to come and create wealth. Unfortunately the side effect of such a society is you have some very rich people at the top.

Please read the Spirit Level

[Whitey Grandad]

It's a perfectly legitimate question. The UK has got a long history of infiltrating political movements, including recent ones.

 

Do you seriously reckon we'd target the likes Camp for Climate and leave the Yes Campaign, the thing that breaks up the Union alone?

 

I think you need more chats with your Arab relatives

 

Which part of the UK would that be, those in the north perhaps?

[pap]

Which part of the UK would that be, those in the north perhaps?

 

This should keep you busy.

 

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/01/472363.html

[dubai_phil]

Really looking forward to a big night out in Glasgow on Saturday.

 

Has all the makings of a once in a lifetime moment.

 

Been practising my Aussie Accent just in case mate.

[Whitey Grandad]

This should keep you busy.

 

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/01/472363.html

 

How do I know that's not a conspiracy to make me think there's a conspiracy?

[Batman]

well, when pressed on if rUK would reject a currency union.

Salmond said it will never be rejected by the rUK

 

the English electorate would be happy with a currency union, apparently