The Scottish Independence referendum

[pap]

In precisely one month's time, Scottish voters will be going to the polls to decide if they want to be part of this thing we call the United Kingdom. It's pretty close.

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/17/uk-scotland-independence-idUKKBN0GH0HM20140817

 

Lots of games being played by those on all sides, but it really does look like we're trying to scare the Scots into saying no. Which way do you think it'll go?

[pap]

In precisely one month's time, Scottish voters will be going to the polls to decide if they want to be part of this thing we call the United Kingdom. It's pretty close.

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/17/uk-scotland-independence-idUKKBN0GH0HM20140817

 

Lots of games being played by those on all sides, but it really does look like we're trying to scare the Scots into saying no. Which way do you think it'll go?

[Batman]

salmond got a pasting in the TV debate. He really did

I have spent a lot of time up in scotland and have never ever met anyone who is going to vote yes.

obviously there will be many, but cant think enough will

 

not so when he has absolutely no plan for NOT having control of the £, which the very bland allister darling tore him to shreds on

[Batman]

salmond got a pasting in the TV debate. He really did

I have spent a lot of time up in scotland and have never ever met anyone who is going to vote yes.

obviously there will be many, but cant think enough will

 

not so when he has absolutely no plan for NOT having control of the £, which the very bland allister darling tore him to shreds on

[CB Saint]

I think the issue over the currency is bizarre. I just don't get Salmons insistence that despite Labour, tories, the libs and the BOE, stating it is not happening and not in the Unions interest, why he continues to assert that once the Scots have voted yes, everyone will see the light and agree to his point of view.

 

His threat to not take Scotland share of the National Debt is a hollow one - I can't imagine that the best way to start out as a new country trying to raise money in the Bond markets, is to default on an existing debt.

 

At the end of day I am pretty ambivalent to the outcome.

[CB Saint]

I think the issue over the currency is bizarre. I just don't get Salmons insistence that despite Labour, tories, the libs and the BOE, stating it is not happening and not in the Unions interest, why he continues to assert that once the Scots have voted yes, everyone will see the light and agree to his point of view.

 

His threat to not take Scotland share of the National Debt is a hollow one - I can't imagine that the best way to start out as a new country trying to raise money in the Bond markets, is to default on an existing debt.

 

At the end of day I am pretty ambivalent to the outcome.

[norwaysaint]

Funny, I've been keeping a close eye on this for a while as I use it as a discussion subject in oral exams. Less than a year ago, the yes vote was a very small proportion, now you couldn't call it. Everyone Scottish I know is pro independence, but on the other hand they all emigrated over here and can't vote.

 

Cameron would be remembered in history solely as the leader who didn't manage to keep the union together, losing the second biggest member of the UK. I'd imagine he's dreading the vote and his possible legacy.

 

for me, I hope it's a no vote. I think the Scottish are a big and important part of the British identity, I know many on here hate the idea of "Britishness" and only care about England, but not me. I've always had plenty of Scottish friends and think they actually complement the English personality pretty well.

 

Also, if Scotland leave, they should really take the blue out of the Union Flag and that would just look terrible. So I'm backing a no.

[norwaysaint]

Funny, I've been keeping a close eye on this for a while as I use it as a discussion subject in oral exams. Less than a year ago, the yes vote was a very small proportion, now you couldn't call it. Everyone Scottish I know is pro independence, but on the other hand they all emigrated over here and can't vote.

 

Cameron would be remembered in history solely as the leader who didn't manage to keep the union together, losing the second biggest member of the UK. I'd imagine he's dreading the vote and his possible legacy.

 

for me, I hope it's a no vote. I think the Scottish are a big and important part of the British identity, I know many on here hate the idea of "Britishness" and only care about England, but not me. I've always had plenty of Scottish friends and think they actually complement the English personality pretty well.

 

Also, if Scotland leave, they should really take the blue out of the Union Flag and that would just look terrible. So I'm backing a no.

[Polaroid Saint]

Slightly redundant maybe? Even if 'National Pride' swells on the day of the vote and a vote for independence is returned I am not sure it will ever happen? All sorts of legal and tricky bits and bobs to sort that will leave the whole thong stuck in the mud - Westminster will bury the constitutional settlement process for years, I would not be surprised to see the results of the referendum quashed (or at least partially negated) by successive legal challenges either.

 

In some ways I wish it were to happen. Then Kernow can get independence too, and them Pimlico and so on. I quite like the idea of an independent Wessex.

[Polaroid Saint]

Slightly redundant maybe? Even if 'National Pride' swells on the day of the vote and a vote for independence is returned I am not sure it will ever happen? All sorts of legal and tricky bits and bobs to sort that will leave the whole thong stuck in the mud - Westminster will bury the constitutional settlement process for years, I would not be surprised to see the results of the referendum quashed (or at least partially negated) by successive legal challenges either.

 

In some ways I wish it were to happen. Then Kernow can get independence too, and them Pimlico and so on. I quite like the idea of an independent Wessex.

[Batman]

The Trident issue will be an interesting one

 

AS big thing is that it will be gone in 5 years. That simply is completely unworkable

[Batman]

The Trident issue will be an interesting one

 

AS big thing is that it will be gone in 5 years. That simply is completely unworkable

[View From The Top]

I hope they vote yes, closely followed by Wales and NI leaving England free of them.

 

My Scottish friends are pretty equally split between yes/no and their stances have not changed from the start of the campaign.

[View From The Top]

I hope they vote yes, closely followed by Wales and NI leaving England free of them.

 

My Scottish friends are pretty equally split between yes/no and their stances have not changed from the start of the campaign.

[Sour Mash]

I want the Scots to vote to stay within the UK and expect they will, but the unfortunate downside of that is we will be saddled with some sort of heavily devolved fudge of the system, subsidised by us all.

[Sour Mash]

I want the Scots to vote to stay within the UK and expect they will, but the unfortunate downside of that is we will be saddled with some sort of heavily devolved fudge of the system, subsidised by us all.

[pap]

I know that the 1979 poll wasn't about independence per se, but the fact that we've had to address this issue multiple times in the last century means it's not going away.

 

It has been over 300 years since the Act of Union, and we've been unable to create a lasting notion of Britain that its citizens want to belong to.

[pap]

I know that the 1979 poll wasn't about independence per se, but the fact that we've had to address this issue multiple times in the last century means it's not going away.

 

It has been over 300 years since the Act of Union, and we've been unable to create a lasting notion of Britain that its citizens want to belong to.

[John Boy Saint]

Interesting listening to normal folks interviewed on the subject, most of them are fearful of the unknown beyond money. Passports, Driving licences, not automatically being part of the EU and the advantages that offers small countries, these things and more that they have received no clear convincing answers on with a month to go.

[John Boy Saint]

Interesting listening to normal folks interviewed on the subject, most of them are fearful of the unknown beyond money. Passports, Driving licences, not automatically being part of the EU and the advantages that offers small countries, these things and more that they have received no clear convincing answers on with a month to go.

[Orange]

I hope they stay with us with a convincing NO vote , I think for the English to feel positive about the whole thing it's got to be more of a 60/40+ yes vote, as opposed to 55/45.

 

The silver lining for me if they do vote YES will be the damage to the Labour party and their chances. There is part of me that feels the Scots are very much different politically.

End of the day though i consider myself British (as well as English). I've found it a bit sad through the campaign how it's all sort of revolved around finance issues- not the question of, do you consider yourself British and do you want to keep are sort of sibling relationship or split away and be nothing more than a foreign country.

 

If they do vote YES things will probably get pretty nasty - the British public will rightly feel like the Scots have given us the middle finger, and that would result in people not wanting the government to give them easy concessions.

[Orange]

I hope they stay with us with a convincing NO vote , I think for the English to feel positive about the whole thing it's got to be more of a 60/40+ yes vote, as opposed to 55/45.

 

The silver lining for me if they do vote YES will be the damage to the Labour party and their chances. There is part of me that feels the Scots are very much different politically.

End of the day though i consider myself British (as well as English). I've found it a bit sad through the campaign how it's all sort of revolved around finance issues- not the question of, do you consider yourself British and do you want to keep are sort of sibling relationship or split away and be nothing more than a foreign country.

 

If they do vote YES things will probably get pretty nasty - the British public will rightly feel like the Scots have given us the middle finger, and that would result in people not wanting the government to give them easy concessions.

[View From The Top]

I hope they stay with us with a convincing NO vote , I think for the English to feel positive about the whole thing it's got to be more of a 60/40+ yes vote, as opposed to 55/45.

 

The silver lining for me if they do vote YES will be the damage to the Labour party and their chances. There is part of me that feels the Scots are very much different politically.

End of the day though i consider myself British (as well as English). I've found it a bit sad through the campaign how it's all sort of revolved around finance issues- not the question of, do you consider yourself British and do you want to keep are sort of sibling relationship or split away and be nothing more than a foreign country.

 

If they do vote YES things will probably get pretty nasty - the British public will rightly feel like the Scots have given us the middle finger, and that would result in people not wanting the government to give them easy concessions.

 

The vast majority of the English general public don't give a f**k. Outside of my jock mates and workmates, not a soul I know has mentioned it.

[View From The Top]

I hope they stay with us with a convincing NO vote , I think for the English to feel positive about the whole thing it's got to be more of a 60/40+ yes vote, as opposed to 55/45.

 

The silver lining for me if they do vote YES will be the damage to the Labour party and their chances. There is part of me that feels the Scots are very much different politically.

End of the day though i consider myself British (as well as English). I've found it a bit sad through the campaign how it's all sort of revolved around finance issues- not the question of, do you consider yourself British and do you want to keep are sort of sibling relationship or split away and be nothing more than a foreign country.

 

If they do vote YES things will probably get pretty nasty - the British public will rightly feel like the Scots have given us the middle finger, and that would result in people not wanting the government to give them easy concessions.

 

The vast majority of the English general public don't give a f**k. Outside of my jock mates and workmates, not a soul I know has mentioned it.

[pap]

Potentially frivolous question, but how much of our lack of national identity is down to our insistence that in many sports, each country is individually represented?

[pap]

Potentially frivolous question, but how much of our lack of national identity is down to our insistence that in many sports, each country is individually represented?

[Batman]

if people are voting NO on what salmond tells them, then they are complete idiots.

oddly (IMO) if they vote NO for nothing other than patriotic reasons, I say fair play

 

a yes vote throws up ridiculous amounts of unknowns for them IMO

good luck to the whinging bastards

[Batman]

if people are voting NO on what salmond tells them, then they are complete idiots.

oddly (IMO) if they vote NO for nothing other than patriotic reasons, I say fair play

 

a yes vote throws up ridiculous amounts of unknowns for them IMO

good luck to the whinging bastards

[trousers]

I assume if Scotland votes for separation there will then follow a referendum in the rest of the UK to democratically shape the separation agreement?

[trousers]

I assume if Scotland votes for separation there will then follow a referendum in the rest of the UK to democratically shape the separation agreement?

[LGTL]

Do we get to have a vote as to whether we actually want them?

[LGTL]

Do we get to have a vote as to whether we actually want them?

[CB Saint]

If Salmon is threatening to leave us lumbered with their share of the National Debt, how about we get in first. England votes to break away and not take our share of the debt. Shove that up your oil well Salmon

[CB Saint]

If Salmon is threatening to leave us lumbered with their share of the National Debt, how about we get in first. England votes to break away and not take our share of the debt. Shove that up your oil well Salmon

[eurosaint]

The Queen is in Glasgow and she bumped into Alex Salmond.

 

HMQ: How nice to see you Mr Salmond.

 

AS: Nice to see you Ma’am. Now, what are we going to call Scotland when

we win Independence? How about calling it a Kingdom, and then I’ll be a King?

 

HMQ: No, we don’t like that.

 

AS: Empire, and I'll be Emperor?

 

HMQ: No.

 

AS: Alright, so how about calling it a Principality, and then I’ll be a Prince?

 

HMQ: No Mr Salmond, I suggest we call it a Country.

 

:)

[eurosaint]

The Queen is in Glasgow and she bumped into Alex Salmond.

 

HMQ: How nice to see you Mr Salmond.

 

AS: Nice to see you Ma’am. Now, what are we going to call Scotland when

we win Independence? How about calling it a Kingdom, and then I’ll be a King?

 

HMQ: No, we don’t like that.

 

AS: Empire, and I'll be Emperor?

 

HMQ: No.

 

AS: Alright, so how about calling it a Principality, and then I’ll be a Prince?

 

HMQ: No Mr Salmond, I suggest we call it a Country.

 

:)

[pap]

The Queen is in Glasgow and she bumped into Alex Salmond.

 

HMQ: How nice to see you Mr Salmond.

 

AS: Nice to see you Ma’am. Now, what are we going to call Scotland when

 

 

 

we win Independence? How about calling it a Kingdom, and then I’ll be a King?

 

HMQ: No, we don’t like that.

 

AS: Empire, and I'll be Emperor?

 

HMQ: No.

 

AS: Alright, so how about calling it a Principality, and then I’ll be a Prince?

 

 

 

 

 

HMQ: No Mr Salmond, I suggest we call it a Country.

 

:)

 

 

That's always amused me. Stick a little -ry on the end of that and it's fine, even though you still make the same phonetic sound.

[pap]

The Queen is in Glasgow and she bumped into Alex Salmond.

 

HMQ: How nice to see you Mr Salmond.

 

AS: Nice to see you Ma’am. Now, what are we going to call Scotland when

 

 

 

we win Independence? How about calling it a Kingdom, and then I’ll be a King?

 

HMQ: No, we don’t like that.

 

AS: Empire, and I'll be Emperor?

 

HMQ: No.

 

AS: Alright, so how about calling it a Principality, and then I’ll be a Prince?

 

 

 

 

 

HMQ: No Mr Salmond, I suggest we call it a Country.

 

:)

 

 

That's always amused me. Stick a little -ry on the end of that and it's fine, even though you still make the same phonetic sound.

[eurosaint]

Salmond is an arrogant chancer who is desperate to leave a legacy that he changed the world (or at least the Scottish part of it) !

It's a one man mission and apart from Nicola Sturgeon I'll bet that few could name another SNP member (conjures up Skate nightmares as well!).

I pray that he fails and that the whole issue is put to bed once and for all in my lifetime !

 

Ps. I was born, bred and educated in Scotland but do not have a vote !

[eurosaint]

Salmond is an arrogant chancer who is desperate to leave a legacy that he changed the world (or at least the Scottish part of it) !

It's a one man mission and apart from Nicola Sturgeon I'll bet that few could name another SNP member (conjures up Skate nightmares as well!).

I pray that he fails and that the whole issue is put to bed once and for all in my lifetime !

 

Ps. I was born, bred and educated in Scotland but do not have a vote !

[Viking Warrior]

As someone who gets a vote . I have to say euros saint has got it right . Salmond is an arrogant chancer along with his side kick

 

He has no coherent plan b and just shouts down anyone with any sensible opinions down re the no vote

One of the problems here is some of the yes people have intimidated the no people in some areas ,

The BBC Scotland are not neutral and are spouting off propaganda stuff each day on news programmes

 

It's subtle I might add . They will get some one on a no manifest and the get some yes person literally shouting down at the no campaigners who do not get the chance to respond to the yes vote thugs diatribe .

I will vote no , because the SNP mouthpieces in Orkney are not to be trusted . I would say more about two individuals but I will keep my powder dry for now .

Salmond and spurgeon have all of a sudden taken a big interest in the isles with regular visits since July .

They rarely have been here if at all since the last Scottish elections .

Edited 18 August, 2014 by Viking Warrior

[Viking Warrior]

As someone who gets a vote . I have to say euros saint has got it right . Salmond is an arrogant chancer along with his side kick

 

He has no coherent plan b and just shouts down anyone with any sensible opinions down re the no vote

One of the problems here is some of the yes people have intimidated the no people in some areas ,

The BBC Scotland are not neutral and are spouting off propaganda stuff each day on news programmes

 

It's subtle I might add . They will get some one on a no manifest and the get some yes person literally shouting down at the no campaigners who do not get the chance to respond to the yes vote thugs diatribe .

I will vote no , because the SNP mouthpieces in Orkney are not to be trusted . I would say more about two individuals but I will keep my powder dry for now .

Salmond and spurgeon have all of a sudden taken a big interest in the isles with regular visits since July .

They rarely have been here if at all since the last Scottish elections .

Edited 18 August, 2014 by Viking Warrior

[alpine_saint]

I am totally ambivalent to this.

 

At least the whining will stop if they vote yes. If they dont, I am sure we will be back here again at some unspecified point in the future.

 

The Scots and the Salmond/Wee Jimmy Krankie dream team deserve each other.

[Frank's cousin]

The vast majority of the English general public don't give a f**k. Outside of my jock mates and workmates, not a soul I know has mentioned it.

 

Interesting that many in England, have not picked up on the fact that should Westminster no longer contain the 50 odd Scottish MPs, it's unlikely there would ever be any other Government in England other than a Right wing one... Great if that's your bent, but disastrous for Labour in England... In some respects it's interesting the Tories are not completely behind it!

[Frank's cousin]

I am totally ambivalent to this.

 

At least the whining will stop if they vote yes. If they dont, I am sure we will be back here again at some unspecified point in the future.

 

The Scots and the Salmond/Wee Jimmy Krankie dream team deserve each other.

 

Alps, not sure if there was actually a point in there struggling to get past the simplistic stereotypical and rather ignorant view of the Scots... Currently, most who have expressed a preference don't want independence and appreciate that there are benefits to a collective union... And if it goes to a NO, it will be so close it will still be a lot less than 50% of the voting public what with abstentions and 'can't be arseds' etc... I would have expected a 65% minimum for such a huge change, as with most referenda in other countries... But Salmond knows he would never get that. You are right he is a cock of some magnitude IMHO, a nationalist with a small n who is obsessed with being differentiated whatever it might cost... But don't make the mistake of thinking all Scots or those that live here value him.

[CB Fry]

I assume if Scotland votes for separation there will then follow a referendum in the rest of the UK to democratically shape the separation agreement?

It would be a delicious cheap shot but I am surprised that idea has not even been floated to put the shi ts up the "don't knows" in Scotland.

 

There are so many things a yes vote would impose on the rest of the UK that we haven't voted for: unilateral nuclear disarmament for a start. Cameron should, either officially or leaked out unofficially, announce a referendum on currency union/separation terms etc etc within a year of a yes vote. Hard not to see an effing landslide voting for whatever the sh ittest deal for the jocks would be. What larks.

 

It'll be no anyway, David, so just do it for the LOLZ.

[Batman]

It would be a delicious cheap shot but I am surprised that idea has not even been floated to put the shi ts up the "don't knows" in Scotland.

 

There are so many things a yes vote would impose on the rest of the UK that we haven't voted for: unilateral nuclear disarmament for a start. Cameron should, either officially or leaked out unofficially, announce a referendum on currency union/separation terms etc etc within a year of a yes vote. Hard not to see an effing landslide voting for whatever the sh ittest deal for the jocks would be. What larks.

 

It'll be no anyway, David, so just do it for the LOLZ.

 

I suspect that will not happen

[CB Fry]

I suspect that will not happen

Of course it won't but fat Salmond has promised it if he wins. It's not his to promise. We should be countering that sh it with promise to bow to the will of the entire UK population.

[Batman]

Of course it won't but fat Salmond has promised it if he wins. It's not his to promise. We should be countering that sh it with promise to bow to the will of the entire UK population.

 

if anyone votes yes on what he 'promises' then they are a moron

I love the way King Alex is adamant that the £ belongs to scotland as much as England and refuses to accept that he will NOT have any say in the currency if he chooses to use the £ in a yes vote

Edited 18 August, 2014 by Batman

[CB Fry]

if anyone votes yes on what he 'promises' then they are a moron

I love the way King Alex is adamant that the £ belongs to scotland as much as England and refuses to accept that he will NOT have any say in the currency if he chooses to use the £ in a yes vote

 

His blathering on the £ proved beyond doubt he is making it up as he goes along.

 

If in the highly unlikely event of a yes vote I think there would be an immediate campaign in the rest of the UK for us to have a say on whether/how we share our currency with a foreign country.