Turkish Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 (edited) I understand the preference for believing those that you know whether on a board or not but it's not really credible to post it as 'fact' when that can't be proven - that would be my issue with egg's post and others of a similar nature. I love a rumour as much as anyone but so many turn out to be complete fabrication that it's hardly surprising that the credibility is questionable, hence it's entirely legitimate to ask for a source...isn't it? and the problem with asking for a source for stuff that's not in the public domain is that it people expect names to be named. Why on earth would anyone name their source on a public forum? You put them at risk in their jobs and at the very least you lose their trust just to appease people you've never met and probably wont ever meet on a football forum. Put what you know and let others decide if they want to believe it or not. The majority on here dont seem to want to believe anything about Cortese that suggested he wasn't the greatest human who has ever lived. Once i said who one of my sources was, not by name but the role they did at another club and i got all sorts of abuse about Turkish the telesales man hanging out with Bruce Buck. Neither are true of course but dammed if you do dammed if you dont. Edited 18 August, 2014 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 (edited) I understand the preference for believing those that you know whether on a board or not but it's not really credible to post it as 'fact' when that can't be proven - that would be my issue with egg's post and others of a similar nature. I love a rumour as much as anyone but so many turn out to be complete fabrication that it's hardly surprising that the credibility is questionable, hence it's entirely legitimate to ask for a source...isn't it? and the problem with asking for a source for stuff that's not in the public domain is that it people expect names to be named. Why on earth would anyone name their source on a public forum? You put them at risk in their jobs and at the very least you lose their trust just to appease people you've never met and probably wont ever meet on a football forum. Put what you know and let others decide if they want to believe it or not. The majority on here dont seem to want to believe anything about Cortese that suggested he wasn't the greatest human who has ever lived. Once i said who one of my sources was, not by name but the role they did at another club and i got all sorts of abuse about Turkish the telesales man hanging out with Bruce Buck. Neither are true of course but dammed if you do dammed if you dont. Edited 18 August, 2014 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Having spent five + years out of it, now we are back in it I'd be happy to see us stay there. For me, obviously the higher we can finish the better but for the season it is a week by week thing. As long as we are competitive and can win more than we lose and can watch games with the anticipation of winning even if like yesterday we didn't manage it, but we gave it a good go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Having spent five + years out of it, now we are back in it I'd be happy to see us stay there. For me, obviously the higher we can finish the better but for the season it is a week by week thing. As long as we are competitive and can win more than we lose and can watch games with the anticipation of winning even if like yesterday we didn't manage it, but we gave it a good go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Yep. Not a sustainable way to run a football club. God knows what else is in these players contracts (read P*mpey) Bonuses linked to the league position prize pot for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Yep. Not a sustainable way to run a football club. God knows what else is in these players contracts (read P*mpey) Bonuses linked to the league position prize pot for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Egg, you seem to be party to financial info....these bonuses are interesting as some have opined that they were wholly unsustainable. Do you know or can you say what sort of thing they were? I am sure that that would answer many a question as I think (or rather hope) that our supporters are realistic about finances having so recently been in administration and on the brink of liquidation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Egg, you seem to be party to financial info....these bonuses are interesting as some have opined that they were wholly unsustainable. Do you know or can you say what sort of thing they were? I am sure that that would answer many a question as I think (or rather hope) that our supporters are realistic about finances having so recently been in administration and on the brink of liquidation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuz Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Anyone know whether we've got a better take up on the executive boxes than last year - they seemed to be largely empty for most matches which given that they were pretty much 100% occupied during our previous time in Prem League was a generally poor show. Were they just too expensively priced for the corporates to take up? I don't know what the take up is with the exec boxes but I do know that as a business we used to spend some money with Saints every year. Not huge amounts but significant enough (hospitality, the odd exec box, sponsorship of players etc). When we got promoted to the Premier League I got a call from someone in the Saints marketing/sponsorship department to tell me that everything was changing now we were a Premier League club and that he would be calling me back in a month or so to offer a bespoke package for the coming season. I never received a follow up call. Now, like I say we were not spending huge amounts as a business but it was five figures. In player wages terms it is a drop in the ocean but since then the business has not spent any money at all with the club, despite being happy to do so in the past and future. We just don't get called any more to see if we want to spend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuz Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Anyone know whether we've got a better take up on the executive boxes than last year - they seemed to be largely empty for most matches which given that they were pretty much 100% occupied during our previous time in Prem League was a generally poor show. Were they just too expensively priced for the corporates to take up? I don't know what the take up is with the exec boxes but I do know that as a business we used to spend some money with Saints every year. Not huge amounts but significant enough (hospitality, the odd exec box, sponsorship of players etc). When we got promoted to the Premier League I got a call from someone in the Saints marketing/sponsorship department to tell me that everything was changing now we were a Premier League club and that he would be calling me back in a month or so to offer a bespoke package for the coming season. I never received a follow up call. Now, like I say we were not spending huge amounts as a business but it was five figures. In player wages terms it is a drop in the ocean but since then the business has not spent any money at all with the club, despite being happy to do so in the past and future. We just don't get called any more to see if we want to spend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 I don't know what the take up is with the exec boxes but I do know that as a business we used to spend some money with Saints every year. Not huge amounts but significant enough (hospitality, the odd exec box, sponsorship of players etc). When we got promoted to the Premier League I got a call from someone in the Saints marketing/sponsorship department to tell me that everything was changing now we were a Premier League club and that he would be calling me back in a month or so to offer a bespoke package for the coming season. I never received a follow up call. Now, like I say we were not spending huge amounts as a business but it was five figures. In player wages terms it is a drop in the ocean but since then the business has not spent any money at all with the club, despite being happy to do so in the past and future. We just don't get called any more to see if we want to spend... Several of my customers were the same. Had previously had corporate tickets at saints but as the price went up and the quality went down decided it was far better to just have normal season tickets and entertain in restaurants and pubs in oxford street. People don't like hearing it but when Cortese was here the corporate side of things were a shambles, hence why income was so low. He was great at spending money, not so good at making it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 I don't know what the take up is with the exec boxes but I do know that as a business we used to spend some money with Saints every year. Not huge amounts but significant enough (hospitality, the odd exec box, sponsorship of players etc). When we got promoted to the Premier League I got a call from someone in the Saints marketing/sponsorship department to tell me that everything was changing now we were a Premier League club and that he would be calling me back in a month or so to offer a bespoke package for the coming season. I never received a follow up call. Now, like I say we were not spending huge amounts as a business but it was five figures. In player wages terms it is a drop in the ocean but since then the business has not spent any money at all with the club, despite being happy to do so in the past and future. We just don't get called any more to see if we want to spend... Several of my customers were the same. Had previously had corporate tickets at saints but as the price went up and the quality went down decided it was far better to just have normal season tickets and entertain in restaurants and pubs in oxford street. People don't like hearing it but when Cortese was here the corporate side of things were a shambles, hence why income was so low. He was great at spending money, not so good at making it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Anyone know whether we've got a better take up on the executive boxes than last year - they seemed to be largely empty for most matches which given that they were pretty much 100% occupied during our previous time in Prem League was a generally poor show. Were they just too expensively priced for the corporates to take up? i do not know what the take up is but i do know that some companies are reluctant to book to far in advance because of the change in kick off times. A 3pm is ok but 12.45 on a Saturday and Catering is a problem as you arrive about 11am to early for lunch, to late for breakfast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Anyone know whether we've got a better take up on the executive boxes than last year - they seemed to be largely empty for most matches which given that they were pretty much 100% occupied during our previous time in Prem League was a generally poor show. Were they just too expensively priced for the corporates to take up? i do not know what the take up is but i do know that some companies are reluctant to book to far in advance because of the change in kick off times. A 3pm is ok but 12.45 on a Saturday and Catering is a problem as you arrive about 11am to early for lunch, to late for breakfast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Anyone know whether we've got a better take up on the executive boxes than last year - they seemed to be largely empty for most matches which given that they were pretty much 100% occupied during our previous time in Prem League was a generally poor show. Were they just too expensively priced for the corporates to take up? A while ago I had lunch with someone who used to have a box but when we got to this league Cortese raised all the prices and he walked away. Cortese tried to call him back as he was walking out but he had had enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Anyone know whether we've got a better take up on the executive boxes than last year - they seemed to be largely empty for most matches which given that they were pretty much 100% occupied during our previous time in Prem League was a generally poor show. Were they just too expensively priced for the corporates to take up? A while ago I had lunch with someone who used to have a box but when we got to this league Cortese raised all the prices and he walked away. Cortese tried to call him back as he was walking out but he had had enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 I wonder how many of the boxes are sold through the likes of Ticketmaster ie for away fans? I did have a friend take one on two occasions last season Man C and Man U (via the club), and he isn't a season ticket holder nor regular. So if he found it easy enough, I am not sure what it says for demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 I wonder how many of the boxes are sold through the likes of Ticketmaster ie for away fans? I did have a friend take one on two occasions last season Man C and Man U (via the club), and he isn't a season ticket holder nor regular. So if he found it easy enough, I am not sure what it says for demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 (edited) Egg, you seem to be party to financial info....these bonuses are interesting as some have opined that they were wholly unsustainable. Do you know or can you say what sort of thing they were? I am sure that that would answer many a question as I think (or rather hope) that our supporters are realistic about finances having so recently been in administration and on the brink of liquidation. If Football Manager is to be believed, substantial pay increases following a player's first international appearance are common. That could mean that Southampton was hit with 5 such increases in the past year and was facing at least two more this year. To be fair, however, the current version of FM does not claim that Schneiderlin, Clyne, or Chambers had such contract provisions. Edited 18 August, 2014 by Redslo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 (edited) Egg, you seem to be party to financial info....these bonuses are interesting as some have opined that they were wholly unsustainable. Do you know or can you say what sort of thing they were? I am sure that that would answer many a question as I think (or rather hope) that our supporters are realistic about finances having so recently been in administration and on the brink of liquidation. If Football Manager is to be believed, substantial pay increases following a player's first international appearance are common. That could mean that Southampton was hit with 5 such increases in the past year and was facing at least two more this year. To be fair, however, the current version of FM does not claim that Schneiderlin, Clyne, or Chambers had such contract provisions. Edited 18 August, 2014 by Redslo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 If Football Manager is to be believed, substantial pay increases following a player's first international appearance are common. That could mean that Southampton was hit with 5 such increases in the past year and was facing at least two more this year. Redslo, I'm enjoying your blog you have a good grasp on the law (as may be expected given your profession) but please please stop giving MLG the satisfaction? FM is a simulation, it is therefore partially accurate but is limited by availability of information and processing needs. It's a pretty damn good sim but unfortunately not a reliable source for the most part particularly when it comes to contractual or financial information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 If Football Manager is to be believed, substantial pay increases following a player's first international appearance are common. That could mean that Southampton was hit with 5 such increases in the past year and was facing at least two more this year. Redslo, I'm enjoying your blog you have a good grasp on the law (as may be expected given your profession) but please please stop giving MLG the satisfaction? FM is a simulation, it is therefore partially accurate but is limited by availability of information and processing needs. It's a pretty damn good sim but unfortunately not a reliable source for the most part particularly when it comes to contractual or financial information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 It's a game FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Redslo, I'm enjoying your blog you have a good grasp on the law (as may be expected given your profession) but please please stop giving MLG the satisfaction? FM is a simulation, it is therefore partially accurate but is limited by availability of information and processing needs. It's a pretty damn good sim but unfortunately not a reliable source for the most part particularly when it comes to contractual or financial information. I agree with the limits on its accuracy which is why I never rely upon it without specifically saying that is what I am doing. That being said, the fact that they include an increased salary for international appearances as a contract option is not something they would make up out of whole cloth. I doubt they know who has such provisions in their contract, but certainly some players do. Also, for some of the things I do on my blog a set of easy to find internally consistent numbers is what I need since the thrust of my analysis is not dependent on the numbers being entirely accurate. Thus, for example, the significance of the BPL salary cap on Southampton is dependent on real numbers I can't possibly know, but the fact that there is a potential effect and what factors can increase or reduce that effect can be demonstrated with FM numbers so long as everyone knows that is what I am using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 It's a game FFS woah so is football! I refuse to believe MLG would hand out generous international wage bumps without checking with club first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 woah so is football! I refuse to believe MLG would hand out generous international wage bumps without checking with club first. 2 bunny ears up for the laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Along with the £50m spent, It's all part of the act to convince everyone she isn't asset stripping. What a load of baseless c**k! Give the lady a chance without all your usual cynicism will you? She was very enthusiastic last season as well, evident to all who sat near enough to her to see her reactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 What a load of baseless c**k! Give the lady a chance without all your usual cynicism will you? She was very enthusiastic last season as well, evident to all who sat near enough to her to see her reactions. I think you may have missed the patented Turkish sarcasm there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 My doubts were about reinvestment. We can all have opinions on good and bad signings, but the money spent is fact. We're not too far off spending what we've brought in. Ok you could say we should have spent 25m or so without sales, but then no club should do too many deals or spend everything at once. It has been said many times that the money will be spent on buying new players AND on contracts, i.e. wages so by your analysis it's pretty much used up.... just as they said it would be in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 What a load of baseless c**k! Give the lady a chance without all your usual cynicism will you? She was very enthusiastic last season as well, evident to all who sat near enough to her to see her reactions. Whoooooooooossssssshhhhhhh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 (edited) The money spent on Osvaldo maybe? Right, Very few deals are all paid up front. It's been well-documented on earlier occasions that large fees are often staged out over 2-3 years. Like hire purchase, except a shorter repayment period. The deals for Ramirez and Osvaldo were most likely part of the " much-quoted £22 million transfer payments " deals. They were outstanding debts, not overdue debts. This can work against clubs, too. After " selling " Gareth Bale to Spuds, they made staggered payments and Daniel Levy made sure we got even less when we needed money to cover expenses (pre bankruptcy) they offered a lower amount to settle the deal. Apart from having no " sell-on " clause, we didn't get the full £12 million for Bale either. "Coincidentally " ...they sold us that " future English goal-keeping talent " Tommy Forecast, and his 5 year contract probably helped the bankruptcy come closer too. I'd never want to do a deal with Spuds... for any player. We get screwed every time. Edited 18 August, 2014 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Yep. Not a sustainable way to run a football club. God knows what else is in these players contracts (read P*mpey) Or what Cortese verbally promised to them. I'm thinking of Schneiderlin's moan that he had been verbally promised he could leave for a top club if circumstances arose when he signed his long contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 But I seriously believe there are a few who come here deliberatley come on here to wind folk up . Duncan's post is exactly such an example If I wanted to do that I wouldn't attribute the view to someone else. I think she's in it for the long run. Just think it's strange that such a respected and well connected journalist thinks otherwise, against all other evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziz Yebda Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 I think she got excited because she saw Taider warm up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 What a load of baseless c**k! Give the lady a chance without all your usual cynicism will you? She was very enthusiastic last season as well, evident to all who sat near enough to her to see her reactions. Whhhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Whhhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Has already been said by St Chalet in post 96. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 woah so is football! I refuse to believe MLG would hand out generous international wage bumps without checking with club first. I believe the club checks with mlg first and not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 18 August, 2014 Share Posted 18 August, 2014 Anyone know whether we've got a better take up on the executive boxes than last year - they seemed to be largely empty for most matches which given that they were pretty much 100% occupied during our previous time in Prem League was a generally poor show. Were they just too expensively priced for the corporates to take up? When being pitched to (2 weeks ago) I was told 17 sold full season (I am sure it was said there are 49?) selling for games on an individual match basis for example there was 11 left at the time for Liverpool home. I assume it was accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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