The weekend riding thread.

[Winnersaint]

Good one WS even with my lame maths that's $480 and at current exchange rates that's just a smidge under £380, so great deal. You can pick them up from various online retailers here for a similar price to the non-discounted US price. I had a £60 Wiggle loyalty discount, but wouldn't take that off the offer price of £473, only off the full UK rrp of £499, however it's a good piece of kit for under £450. Would be interested to know what software you intend to use with it. At present I have Zwift and an annual subscription to Bkool which expires at the end of January. One of the beauty's of the Kickrs is that their third party app support. You can pretty much use anything. Zwift works fine, but Bkool has a few issues which I have yet to resolve. Pairs fine but just doesn't work properly.

 

Anyway no riding this weekend. Spent yesterday in the Vale of Eywas, the eastern most valley in Black Mountains helping our daughter with her with fieldwork for her dissertation. Beautiful spot, plenty of walking uphill, very few people.

[Weston Super Saint]

So, I started my ride this morning and then realised the Garmin was in the wrong profile following an update as it presumably went back to a default rather than the last profile used. I had to stop the ride on the fly to get the right profile on the screen which got me thinking, what do you guys use - looks like most people have a Garmin - in terms of apps / customisable screens? Any recommendations?

 

I downloaded this one a couple of weeks ago and can thoroughly recommend : https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/fb5782dc-9e31-4631-b372-30ff75721fb7

[Winnersaint]

Haven't downloaded anything like this for my Edge 520, like the look of the speedo effect. TBH it depends where, how and what kind of ride I'm looking for as to what appears on mine.

[View From The Top]

I use an 810 and my screen consists of the actual time, speed, distance, average speed and heart rate. I don't need more than that. If I invest in a some Garmin Vectors then I'd add power to it. I only have 1 profile set up as well despite the 3 bikes.

 

I use all the data afterwards to analyse my ride only if it's been a hilly one or a smashfest other than that I don't bother.

[washsaint]

I have an Edge 510 and am quite happy with it. Like VFtT, I only have a few items displayed: cadence, speed, distance, heart rate and climbing......on most rides it really would not be that safe to look at the Garmin as I do a lot more group rides now.

 

The Garmin helped enormously to start with but now most of my rides are based on feel as opposed to cadence, heart rate, etc. Its good for bragging rights (or lack of) after a good ride though.

 

Winner - I use Zwift at the moment. It's OK but I think I'll probably use it more for a training regime than the circuits as I ahve found myself pretty bored the 2 times I have done the London ride. Any recommendations/tips on how to make it more interesting?

[Winnersaint]

Just found out why so many cyclists on the road. From Abergavenny to Hay on Way you go over the Gospel Pass, highest road in Wales at around 1800 ft.

[View From The Top]

Winner - I use Zwift at the moment. It's OK but I think I'll probably use it more for a training regime than the circuits as I ahve found myself pretty bored the 2 times I have done the London ride. Any recommendations/tips on how to make it more interesting?

 

You can change it to ride any map you want with a pit of code manipulation. A quick google will show you how.

 

There are plenty of group rides available but I highly recommend racing. It's great fun and hard as hell. The hardest workouts I did last winter were races. They left me hanging out of my ar_se but I was fitter than I'd ever been. I was doing 1 or 2 in the week and a TT on the Sunday depending how my legs felt after our "any weather" century on a Saturday.

 

Give it a go. Details of upcoming group rides and races here. https://teamup.com/ks4861763bd63ce3d8/

[washsaint]

Cheers VfTT.....gave that a go last night and certainly makes the time go way faster. I am still waiting on my Kikr Snap so am having to use my old non-smart trainer (CycleOps) and had it at medium resistance but all felt a bit too easy and not able to elevate HR enough so will need to make resistance higher. I had kind of forgotten how much easier (but harder) it is cycling indoors. No wind resistance, having to hammer the whole time and sweating like there is no tomorrow.

 

Winner - have you noticed a difference re. difficulty on Zwift since you got your smart trainer?

[Winnersaint]

 

Winner - have you noticed a difference re. difficulty on Zwift since you got your smart trainer?

 

Yes WS. This evening I did a session which was 5 mins warm up then 3 x 10 minute tempo intervals with three mins recovery between. This is a go to turbo session for me and was significantly tougher on Kickr Snap than on Fluid 2. HR ten - fifteen beats higher during efforts, fairly and squarely in tempo zone just to keep it above 200 watts. Felt like I'd been a quick flattish road ride to be fair. Av speed similar to same ride on Fluid 2 and power not hugely different from zpower, but just tougher. No hiding place.

Edited 16 November, 2016 by Winnersaint

[washsaint]

Cool - just set up my Snap and very, very disappointed and scratching my head as to what I have done wrong. I can barely turn the pedals and my power output has gone through the floor. Even in an easy gear it is tough to turn the pedals and no matter how many times I do a spindown the result is the same.

 

I know ebough about my road riding to know this thing is miles off right now. Outdoors on my own I can hold a 22-23mph for a good amount of time on the flats - on the Snap (using Zwift) it is about 15.5mph and feels like a ton more effort than riding outdoors.

 

If you can shed any light on any fixes that would be great - otherwise I think I will be returning the kit.

[Weston Super Saint]

I don't know anything about smart trainers!

 

I did find this though that suggests doing an 'advanced' spindown - whatever that is! - also lots of info from other people meeting resistance : https://support.zwift.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/204586643-Erg-mode-problems-Kickr-Snap

[Winnersaint]

Cool - just set up my Snap and very, very disappointed and scratching my head as to what I have done wrong. I can barely turn the pedals and my power output has gone through the floor. Even in an easy gear it is tough to turn the pedals and no matter how many times I do a spindown the result is the same.

 

I know ebough about my road riding to know this thing is miles off right now. Outdoors on my own I can hold a 22-23mph for a good amount of time on the flats - on the Snap (using Zwift) it is about 15.5mph and feels like a ton more effort than riding outdoors.

 

If you can shed any light on any fixes that would be great - otherwise I think I will be returning the kit.

 

What are using to control resistance on Zwift WS. I have mine linked to my laptop via Ant+ F EC rather than Bluetooth. The only issue I have encountered was when I turned BTth on on my Edge 520 just to see if it would pair with the trainer and left it on. Once I turned it off and it wasn't receiving on BTth at the same time as Ant+ F EC it worked fine in Sim Mode. This seems to confirm that there is kind of some conflict. Hope you get it sorted out. As you are in the US it might be worth giving Wahoo a call.

https://support.zwift.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/205018636-Struggling-to-control-resistance-with-Zwift-and-Wahoo-Kickr-snap-trainer

Edited 17 November, 2016 by Winnersaint

[View From The Top]

Just pointing out that us using Elite trainers are suffering no problems at all.

 

Wash, are you finding the issue exists when you are in a training programme? If so check that the ERG is off and that should solve it. If it's happening when you are just in Ride mode then I'm afraid I can't help you as my bit of kit has been bang on the money since I got it a year ago.

 

Also, there are, on Facebook, dozens of groups regarding Zwift and they have the answer to everything. Worth checking out IMHO.

 

I have thought about setting up a private FB group for Saints Cyclists. What do you think?

[washsaint]

Thanks for the heads up guys......going to give Wahoo a call today. Tried everything suggested on the various sites and no dice. In some ways it is quite funny: I am connected via ANT+ and made sure I did not have my phone near me late last night. Hopped on and tried disabling ERG and then went on a ride. It was on the flats and started OK with good feel for the right resistance and within 60 seconds I could not even turn the pedals!

 

Something, somewhere is not quite right!

 

I reckon a private FB group would be excellent VfTT!

[washsaint]

Sorted! Looks like the issue was my son had left the PS4 on (which has an active Bluetooth on it) so maybe this was interfering somehow.

 

Turned the PS4 off, did the spindown and hey presto - all seemed to work OK and power output was much mroe what I would expect to see.

 

Cheers for the tips guys.

[Winnersaint]

Sorted! Looks like the issue was my son had left the PS4 on (which has an active Bluetooth on it) so maybe this was interfering somehow.

 

Turned the PS4 off, did the spindown and hey presto - all seemed to work OK and power output was much mroe what I would expect to see.

 

Cheers for the tips guys.

 

Glad you got it sorted out WS. Going back to your earlier post about difference between a smart and 'dumb' trainer here is a comparison of two different rides. In both cases the first was on a Cyclops Fluid 2 trainer and second with the Kickr Snap. Some interesting differences.

2 Laps of PR London

https://www.strava.com/activities/755392753

https://www.strava.com/activities/777267963

This is my go to Autumn intervals ride.

https://www.strava.com/activities/763813894

https://www.strava.com/activities/777267963

[Winnersaint]

BTW very much liking Vftt's FB page idea.

[washsaint]

Another stunning day here in Northern Virginia - incredible weather for this time of year (got to 72) and had a great 40 mile ride with a bunch of good folks with lots of hills. Truly stunning scenery and pretty fast, especially for this time of year. We finished just in time as a couple of hours later the weather turned and dropped 25 degrees and became really windy and rainy!

 

Truly blessed to have such great riding country round here and so many good people to ride with.

[washsaint]

What a difference a smart trainer makes. On my dumb trainer FTP exercises claimed I had an FTP of around 300 (I wish!) but when I did it today, 181....way, way harder and much more realistic. Unfortunately power to weight hovers around 2 and don;t know how to improve that.

[Winnersaint]

Similar to me WS. Don't know which Cycleops you used , but i had a Fluid 2, which whilst a great trainer seemed to have my FTP up at a similar level on a test. The reality will be somewhat different when i do it on the Snap. Tried the mountain yesterday. Using it as a blueprint for Alps. Keeping HR under 130bpm, knowing that you could go harder but if you did you'd blow up on an alpine climb mans that the power values are relatively meaningless. That said I think the power you get on the Snap is probably lower than in reality. 119w for a 2.4km climb at an average of 5-6% should be around 140w for someone my weight not as recorded on the Snap yesterday. BTW resistance dropped out on the mountain at the German village grrrr.

[Winnersaint]

What a difference a smart trainer makes. On my dumb trainer FTP exercises claimed I had an FTP of around 300 (I wish!) but when I did it today, 181....way, way harder and much more realistic. Unfortunately power to weight hovers around 2 and don;t know how to improve that.

 

Just compared your FTP test and my ride up the mountain on Strava. I noticed your test went up the way I came down. Anyhow I noticed we both climbed at a similar pace and over a similar gradient from start to top. Mine was 3 as opposed to 4% but half as long again as yours. I registered a meagre 122w, while you were at 138w. The reason I ask is because I noticed on the final part of the climb we were again at similar speeds, this time on the same gradient over the same road and had power readings which were similar. Weird. The bit up to the radio mast is hard!

[washsaint]

Hi Winner - yeah, spooky., I was looking at Zwift Strava segments and seeing how we were close to being 'twinnies'!!!! I also experienced a drop in resistance on the Watopia mountains yesterday after the FTP test (which nearly killed me!!!!)

 

Like you, I think the Kikr underestimates the power. I did a challenging hill round my way at the weekend and it seemed much easier after a couple of sessions with the Kikr. On my dumb trainer it had me pushing out 4 Watts per Kg and now with the smart trainer it is around 2

 

To be honest, I am trying hard not to be too anal about the whole thing as, at the end of the day, I do this out of enjoyment rather than trying to be a racer. Approaching 50 that ain't ever going to happen! However, it is still nice to be able to outpace younger riders and to feel good outlasting many folks on the mountains and hills!!!! I certainly found out West that although not being quick on the mountains keeping it nice and steady I would overtake many folks that went out hard and had to keep stopping to regroup and recover. The tortoise and the hare spring to mind.........

[Winnersaint]

I agree with not being too anal about it as long as the data you get is consistent each time you use the trainer that is all that matters. My reason for bringing this up was that the differences between my last FTP test on the Fluid 2 and my power output on the Snap are so off that I had a suspicion that the former was over-reading my power and the latter was under-reading it. You seem to confirm that to be so. You are right about doing this for enjoyment. I'll be 60 (that's scary!) in just over a year's time so I am certainly not in it for any other reason. I also agree with your observations about climbing, that's pretty much the approach I'll be taking in the Alps next year. I will be riding to HR, trying to keep it under 130bpm throughout in order not to go too hard. I managed this yesterday on Zwift and tbh most of the climb was OK and it is a good blueprint for next summer. Mind you the first 2km of Alpe d'Huez is 10%+ so keeping on or under that may be a bit of an issue, especially as the gite is pretty much at the base of the climb and I do need a little time to get everything working as I would like.

[View From The Top]

Do your FTP on the flat, not a mountain!

 

before illness mine was up around 360w and now it's way, way down but still way above you fellas which suggests yours are wrong as 180w is my wife's FTP!

 

As for riding to heat rate in the high mountains. Forget it. If it's hot your heart rate will go up regardless of effort. Better off riding to power or feel. Never ride at someone else's pace, only your own.

 

Also, what has age got to do with owt? I've just turned 50 and I race and it's great. I also enjoy smashing the youngsters. Age is an irrelevance.

[Winnersaint]

Do your FTP on the flat, not a mountain!

 

before illness mine was up around 360w and now it's way, way down but still way above you fellas which suggests yours are wrong as 180w is my wife's FTP!

 

As for riding to heat rate in the high mountains. Forget it. If it's hot your heart rate will go up regardless of effort. Better off riding to power or feel. Never ride at someone else's pace, only your own.

 

Also, what has age got to do with owt? I've just turned 50 and I race and it's great. I also enjoy smashing the youngsters. Age is an irrelevance.

 

I did wonder about WS doing a FTP test up Watopia Mountain. Maybe that was the course given by Zwift. I certainly would look to do mine on the flat. With regards to FTPs and power on the Kickr Snap I think it is artificially low, but I don't know by how much. All I do know is if I'm grinding up a 1.3km stretch at 11%+ I would expect to be doing more than 114W.

Riding to HR at present is as a training device. 130bpm just towards the top end of endurance for me. It's all about having a plan to 'get to the top' without blowing up on an extended climb. I take the point that the reality in France might be different, but it is serving as a training base for now. Before Xmas is no time for more intensive work especially as I'm looking towards late June. I will look to ramp it up in the New Year but extended climbing really is all about maintaining tempo. Age I suppose is irrelevant I just used it to point out why my motivation is where it is. Maybe I'd view things differently if I'd come to the sport in my early to mid forties instead of 10 years later. That said I'm still up for improvement, just accepting that any increments might be quite small.

BTW any developments on the private FB group. Think it's a great idea.

[Winnersaint]

Last question answered VfTT.

[Winnersaint]

OK if you post on this thread and ride a bike you need to get over here!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1867386480162024/

[Weston Super Saint]

https://www.strava.com/activities/792138639

 

That hurt! A nice 25-30mph North Easterly blowing this morning which meant I was heading into it, non stop, for 12 miles all the way up the A38. Even better was the only 'hilly' bit of my ride came in the last four miles of that 12 mile slog!

 

I lost my legs at 40 miles and the last five miles were horrendous. My natural cadence - i.e. how fast my legs spin without any though being put in to it! - is around 80-82 rpm. For the last five miles I had to make a conscious effort just to get the legs spinning over 70 rpm and even then they couldn't reach 80!

 

I'm guessing that despite the fact that I had my thermal tights on, the legs just never got warm enough to cope with the effort.

 

Encouragingly, I did exactly the same route last Saturday and the wind was similar - it was NE but probably 5mph lighter - and I did the ride about 10 minutes faster, although as it had been dry all week, I took the summer bike out for a spin. Nice to know that it should be a fair bit faster when the weather gets nicer than the winter bike!

[badgerx16]

OK if you post on this thread and ride a bike you need to get over here!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1867386480162024/

 

 

Problem is, I'm not on FB.

[Winnersaint]

Problem is, I'm not on FB.

 

That's a bit of an issue I suppose Bx16. I think the 3 posts per day for registered users was a little limiting on here so Vfft set up the closed group. Not a huge amount going on there mind, but easy to put pictures/ videos etc there. Also an escape from Betwetters and Brexs-h-i-teers on here.

[Weston Super Saint]

Shocker today!

 

Temperature of minus 2 with mist / fog. Brake levers got damp then the dampness froze - glad I wore the full fingered gloves!

 

I changed the cassette yesterday to a smaller one - not planning on any big hills on the winter bike! - so assumed it wasn't on properly when I was struggling with an average speed of 14.5mph! It took 11 miles before I finally stopped to check things out only to find the back brake was rubbing! The ride got much easier after that but didn't get any warmer!

[Winnersaint]

Even worse here today. Black ice right outside house. The garage beckons!

[Weston Super Saint]

My goal for this year was 3,500 miles. Re-adjusted to 4,000 about half way through the year.... Today's ride put me over the 4,500 mile mark

 

Can I do 5,000 next year?

[Winnersaint]

My goal for this year was 3,500 miles. Re-adjusted to 4,000 about half way through the year.... Today's ride put me over the 4,500 mile mark

 

Can I do 5,000 next year?

 

Great stuff WSS. My target was 6000K which I passed on Tuesday.

[Weston Super Saint]

Ouch!

 

Despite riding super carefully on the icy roads, I've finally joined the faceplant club when I staked it on a bend with black ice - literally didn't see the ice!

 

Skinned my right elbow - through my jacket which has a tiny rip on the wrist! - skinned my right hip and wrenched my left thumb back. Much pain right now and had to limp home the last seven miles!

[Winnersaint]

Nasty. Heal well, hope it's not too painful. For myself discretion is the better part of valour this time of year. Although not ideal and not everyone's cup of tea a turbo is a worthwhile investment, certainly better than risk hitting the deck

[washsaint]

Ouch WSS - sounds painful. Good luck with the recovery from that fall.

[Weston Super Saint]

So, a couple of hours in A&E, five X-rays later and it turns out I've broken my left arm in two places! Spent the day with an ice pack on it yesterday and finally gave in and went to the hospital in the evening when the pain got too bad.

 

Back on Friday to have the temp cast taken off and replaced with another one.

 

Looks like I'll be spending the next couple of weeks in the garage on the very dumb turbo until the arm heals...

[washsaint]

get well soon wss.

[Weston Super Saint]

Ouch!

 

3 pier challenge today which hurt https://www.strava.com/activities/854527529

 

Timewise, not as bad as I was expecting : https://www.strava.com/activities/854527529/segments/20819122702 especially given the cold winter weather, winter bike and winter clothes!

 

Not sure why but my HR was a lot higher than usual - 9% of the ride spent in Zone 5, 51% in Zone 4 and 34% in Zone 3. Don't know whether this is still lack of fitness having spent the best part of a month doing nothing or whether it's the remnants of the flu - lots of nasty stuff coughed up during the ride - which could be reducing the oxygen in take... Garmin gave me a recovery time of 46 hours following the ride!!

[Winnersaint]

Ouch!

 

3 pier challenge today which hurt https://www.strava.com/activities/854527529

 

Timewise, not as bad as I was expecting : https://www.strava.com/activities/854527529/segments/20819122702 especially given the cold winter weather, winter bike and winter clothes!

 

Not sure why but my HR was a lot higher than usual - 9% of the ride spent in Zone 5, 51% in Zone 4 and 34% in Zone 3. Don't know whether this is still lack of fitness having spent the best part of a month doing nothing or whether it's the remnants of the flu - lots of nasty stuff coughed up during the ride - which could be reducing the oxygen in take... Garmin gave me a recovery time of 46 hours following the ride!!

 

Good to see you back at it WSS. Just a thought but this thread is kind of dying a death, so if you've got FB join us on Cycling Saints Fans. VFFT, me, Washsaint and a few others who I don't recognise from here chew the fat over there, football as well as cycling without having to put up with the self-entitled muppetry that pervades this place.

[Weston Super Saint]

I ditched FB about 3 years as got bored of it. No intention of re-instating it so that's not an option for me!

 

I guess the Garmin was right with its 46 hours for recovery, 19 miles in to my ride today and my legs went pop. Literally nothing left in them and the best I could get on the way back was 80rpm at a mind blowing 14mph! HR still up in zone 5 for 11% and zone 4 for 31% - probably lower today as limped home the last 5 miles or so!

[Winnersaint]

I ditched FB about 3 years as got bored of it. No intention of re-instating it so that's not an option for me!

 

I guess the Garmin was right with its 46 hours for recovery, 19 miles in to my ride today and my legs went pop. Literally nothing left in them and the best I could get on the way back was 80rpm at a mind blowing 14mph! HR still up in zone 5 for 11% and zone 4 for 31% - probably lower today as limped home the last 5 miles or so!

 

Fair enough WSS. Look upon your 14mph as valuable endurance time. I was chatting with my neighbour who will be going to the Alps with me in June. He reckons that with the turbos and shorter rides we can pretty much imitate at our respective levels what the pros do, what we always can't do is go AWOL for 5 or 6 hours and just ride endurance.

[Weston Super Saint]

Anyone got any tips for pedals?

 

I'm currently using Shimano - PD-R450 on one bike and 105 5800 on the other. The problem I'm having is that on both sets of the pedals, the 'nut' that is used to tighten them up has rusted. I don't think the rust is enough to cause a 'safety' issue so it's more of a 'visual' annoyance.

 

Any suggestions on alternative pedals to use where the nut won't rust and annoy me? What do you guys use? Ideally a pedal that will fit an SPD cleat would be great as I've got a couple of spare sets of cleats, but won't rule out changing completely....

[Winnersaint]

I lived with the rust on my 105 pedals and took them off and re-greased them on a regular basis. I tried various ways of removing the rust from wire-wool to Coke until thoughts and plans of a new bike took over, and I abandoned the regular maintenance and attempts at cleaning. Fast forward to around this time last year and the Ridley hadn't been used for around six months and the pedals not maintained for a while beforehand. The result was they were well and truly rusted in and even the LBS struggled to get them out. They cleaned them up and reattached them and all seemed fine until I took it out for a ride. The LBS had got them in and tightened them up OK but the right crank thread was obviously too badly mangled. A couple of miles in and I noticed a clicking coming through my right foot which got worse. A little further on I stopped to investigate the clicking and as I clipped out I ended up with a pedal still attached to the cleat but not to the crank. Couldn't get it back in, cue one-legged ride home and new Campag chainset. Just a though also, make sure you was the pedals down with water, just enough to get ride of road salt/sweat and spray with a water dispersal spray like Bike Spray.

[Weston Super Saint]

Any tips on washing your [cycle] helmet?

 

Mine's reached the point of smelling pretty badly with a combination of sweat, rain, sun, sun-cream etc etc on it, despite it being washed by hand several times with washing powder, washing up liquid, soap and just about anything else that is supposed to clean things! So much so, that last weekend I wrapped it in a towel, put them both in a pillowcase and put it in the washing machine. Helmet and washing machine survived the ordeal but it still has a pong to it! The problem is that the straps aren't removable and nor are the little foam bits on the inside...

 

So, any tips on cleaning the all important helmet, or do you just live with the smell - it lives in the garage so only really notice it when I put it on!

[Winnersaint]

This made me laugh. Asking advice on washing your pongy helmet is just plain funny. Seriously though if it smells that bad, get rid! I started off with cheaper lids and found that even when pads were removable they quickly deteriorated with constantly being taken out and washed. With this in mind I went a bit up-market and got a Giro Synthe which was a great helmet, let down unfortunately by a dodgy ratchet. I replaced this with a Kask Protone which is incredibly comfortable. I wash it pretty much every time use it. Take it in bath or shower so sweat/odours don't stick around and it dries happily by next day

[Weston Super Saint]

So, some shiny new Ultegra wheels coming for the 'best' bike which means the Fulcrums can go on the 'winter' bike, had to be done as the wheel that came with the winter bike has just about had it after 5000 miles - wobbling from side to side when coming down a steep hill is a bit twitchy bum time!

 

Whilst ordering the new wheels I added on some 'extras' - like you do - one of which was some wax lube : http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/chain-lubricants/wax-lube I've had a look at some reviews - after I ordered it! - and they aren't glowing. Seems to be good for about 50 miles which should be fine. I only intend to use it on the 'best' bike which only gets used in the dry and only gets wet if I get caught in an unscheduled rain shower! Anyone used it, is it any good or have I just wasted a couple of quid?

[Winnersaint]

Happy new wheels! I am currently using Finish Line Teflon Plus Dry Lube. I bought the aerosol version which comes with a handy nozzle to get it onto the chain without spraying it everywhere. Cleans off well and doesn't seem to attract too much dirt. I'm a bit of a saddo and re-lube my chain before each ride. I use wipes to get rid of the old lube and make sure nothing is gathering between the links. Every three or four rides I'll get some de-greaser on it and give it a more thorough clean.

[Weston Super Saint]

I've also ordered some powerlock chain connectors to fit on the chain. Already have them on the winter bike which means taking the whole chain off is a piece of cake. Like you, I'm also a bit of a saddo when it comes to the chain and like to take it off every now and then, cover it with degreaser then wash it in hot soapy water. Trick is to get it dried quickly, put it back on the bike and re-lube it before any rust can start to form!