ISIS recruiting in Oxford Street - London

[hypochondriac]

If that's genuinely the case, then I'm even more amazed at your comments. Your claims would be at odds with your experience, unless all the Muslims you know are extremists that have committed the acts you've enumerated.

 

No moderates in Sour Mash's big world of Islam?

 

Every Muslim I know (and I know some very well as my father in law is one) has condemned IS and Muslim extremists. They have called them idiots and nothing to do with them. How does that square with being scared of a mosque?

[Sour Mash]

It's a crass generalisation (and factually inaccurate) to refer to all those of the Muslim faith living in Britain as the Muslim community as if they all come from the same place and all have the same mindset. I assure you that an Arab from Iraq is not going to take too kindly being lumped in with a Saudi. That's part of the problem with putting everyone in a box marked Muslims just as if we did the same to all Christians.

I haven't referred to all people of muslim faith as one single community, don't make stuff up, unless what is most likely, you don't understand what you're actually debating.

[pap]

I haven't referred to all people of muslim faith as one single community, don't make stuff up, unless what is most likely, you don't understand what you're actually debating.

 

You referred to a Polish community, then said that they hadn't done all of the scary things you've read on the front-pages, making a direct comparison with Muslims, therefore positing an implied Muslim community.

Edited 4 September, 2014 by pap

[pap]

I know plenty of "moderates"and I've plenty of experience of intergrated, very decent muslim folk thanks. I can also see the damage that large scale islamfication has had had on many of our towns and cities. But tell us more about your life in Liverpool, I'm keen to know more.

 

So basically, in order to make your big scary points, you avoided mentioning the moderates that you know?

 

Out of all the Muslims you know, how many are moderates and how many are extremists?

[Sour Mash]

Every Muslim I know (and I know some very well as my father in law is one) has condemned IS and Muslim extremists. They have called them idiots and nothing to do with them. How does that square with being scared of a mosque?

Becasuse we have allowed the creation of large areas of our towns and cites where individuals consider their particular society and culture above, beyond and ultimately different and seperate to mainstream UK society it can be no surprise that such individuals consider it acceptable that to go on Jihadist wars, to Islamify schools, blow themselves up on our tubes and buses. They aren't intergrated - and why would they be if the area they live in and those that influence, live and work with them are all living in a society where Islamic culture is dominant, growing and taking over communities that had previously been in situ.

[Sour Mash]

So basically, in order to make your big scary points, you avoided mentioning the moderates that you know?

 

Out of all the Muslims you know, how many are moderates and how many are extremists?

Why would I mention the moderates I know, what does that have to do with my point? Why do I need to know extremsts, what does that have to do with the debate?

 

You can only thnk the Islamification of areas of the UK a bad thing if you know extremestists and no "moderates"?

[hypochondriac]

Becasuse we have allowed the creation of large areas of our towns and cites where individuals consider their particular society and culture above, beyond and ultimately different and seperate to mainstream UK society it can be no surprise that such individuals consider it acceptable that to go on Jihadist wars, to Islamify schools, blow themselves up on our tubes and buses. They aren't intergrated - and why would they be if the area they live in and those that influence, live and work with them are all living in a society where Islamic culture is dominant, growing and taking over communities that had previously been in situ.

 

What percentage of the Islamic community in Britain - by your reckoning- isn't integrated and considers it acceptable to blow themselves up? Just a ballpark figure will do.

[hypochondriac]

Why would I mention the moderates I know, what does that have to do with my point? Why do I need to know extremsts, what does that have to do with the debate?

 

You can only thnk the Islamification of areas of the UK a bad thing if you know extremestists and no "moderates"?

 

Could you describe what you mean by islamification? Do you mean building a mosque and a halal chicken shop?

[Sour Mash]

What percentage of the Islamic community in Britain - by your reckoning- isn't integrated and considers it acceptable to blow themselves up? Just a ballpark figure will do.

You're still missing the point, I'm not sure if it's deliberate or you just find it difficult to understand. If you have a community that is significantly unintergrated, it can be of little surprise that it produces significant numbers of individuals that considers it acceptable to blow themselves up on the tube, take part in Jihadist wars, take over schools, attack people for drinking in "muslim" areas, be part of organised Paedophile gangs.

[pap]

Why would I mention the moderates I know, what does that have to do with my point? Why do I need to know extremsts, what does that have to do with the debate?

 

You can only thnk the Islamification of areas of the UK a bad thing if you know extremestists and no "moderates"?

 

You are making the case about the dangers of Islamic extremism. You say you know more Muslims than "90% of the people on here".

 

You describe Muslims as "international jihadists, paedophile rings, bombings and beheadings in the UK, Trojan Horse take over".

 

There are two problems here. First, you've omitted your own day-to-day experience in these claims. Difficult to tell, but it sounds like you're saying that you don't know any Islamic extremists, meaning that every Muslim you know is a moderate. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

 

Which leads to the second problem. Why would someone with your stated level of interaction with Muslims, and has never met any extremists, start banging the extremist drum? Surely you're doing all the moderate Muslims you've met a massive disservice with your ill-considered comments? You're either being dishonest about your experience or worse, have met loads of moderate Muslims and have decided to paint them all as extremists anyhow.

[hypochondriac]

You're still missing the point, I'm not sure if it's deliberate or you just find it difficult to understand. If you have a community that is significantly unintergrated, it can be of little surprise that it produces significant numbers of individuals that considers it acceptable to blow themselves up on the tube, take part in Jihadist wars, take over schools, attack people for drinking in "muslim" areas, be part of organised Paedophile gangs.

 

Significant numbers? Granted you could argue that just one who does that is significant but your implication there is that it's quite a large number of the community. Is that the case? Again what percentage of the Muslim community of Britain does this apply to do you reckon? And how many of them do you reckon are "significantly unintegrated" and what barometer is used to establish their "integratedness?" (sic) No need to continue with the mild insults, it's just a discussion. I'm not calling you a racist or anything like that, just wondering what your experience of these Islamic communities is. It seems like you have been personally affected by these hoards of Muslims Islamifying (again a definition of this would be helpful.) huge swathes of Britain. Is this the case?

[Sour Mash]

You are making the case about the dangers of Islamic extremism. You say you know more Muslims than "90% of the people on here".

 

You describe Muslims as "international jihadists, paedophile rings, bombings and beheadings in the UK, Trojan Horse take over".

 

There are two problems here. First, you've omitted your own day-to-day experience in these claims. Difficult to tell, but it sounds like you're saying that you don't know any Islamic extremists, meaning that every Muslim you know is a moderate. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

 

Which leads to the second problem. Why would someone with your stated level of interaction with Muslims, and has never met any extremists, start banging the extremist drum? Surely you're doing all the moderate Muslims you've met a massive disservice with your ill-considered comments? You're either being dishonest about your experience or worse, have met loads of moderate Muslims and have decided to paint them all as extremists anyhow.

How exactly am I "banging the extremist drum"? What are you on about? I haven't once painted all muslims as all extremists, do don't try to make things up, as I know you love to do.

[hypochondriac]

How exactly am I "banging the extremist drum"? What are you on about? I haven't once painted all muslims as all extremists, do don't try to make things up, as I know you love to do.

 

How have you come to form your opinions about the Muslim community and how widespread and numerous the problems they create are? Is it something you have personally experienced?

[pap]

How exactly am I "banging the extremist drum"? What are you on about? I haven't once painted all muslims as all extremists, do don't try to make things up, as I know you love to do.

 

Only one person inventing stuff here, I'm afraid.

 

Let's recap. You've listed a series of horror stories gathered from the hysterical front pages of the media.

 

You know "90% more Muslims than anyone else on here", yet you don't know any extremists. Even so, you're still making the case that extremists are here and very dangerous. The only time you mentioned moderates is when your experience was challenged.

 

Your general position is incongruent with your claimed experience, making you either a liar or someone gullible enough to let sensationalist newspaper stories trump your own personal experience. Pick whatever cap fits.

[Sour Mash]

Significant numbers? Granted you could argue that just one who does that is significant but your implication there is that it's quite a large number of the community. Is that the case? Again what percentage of the Muslim community of Britain does this apply to do you reckon? And how many of them do you reckon are "significantly unintegrated" and what barometer is used to establish their "integratedness?" (sic) No need to continue with the mild insults, it's just a discussion. I'm not calling you a racist or anything like that, just wondering what your experience of these Islamic communities is. It seems like you have been personally affected by these hoards of Muslims Islamifying (again a definition of this would be helpful.) huge swathes of Britain. Is this the case?

Yes, significant numbers. If they live in an area that is largely populated by other muslims, shop in islamic shops, dress differently, have little social interaction with other communities.

 

Are you telling me that you would define some of the Islamic communities in parts of East London, Birmingham, Rochdale etc as integrated?

 

Do you think it is consequently just a coincidence that islamic communities have produced jihadist fighters, Trojan Horse conspirators, tube and bus bombers, paedophile rings and other communities haven't?

 

Yes, I’ve seen the take over of areas first hand, as have other people I know, it’s hardly a secret, or are you suggesting it isn’t something that has happened?

[Sour Mash]

Only one person inventing stuff here, I'm afraid.

 

Let's recap. You've listed a series of horror stories gathered from the hysterical front pages of the media.

 

You know "90% more Muslims than anyone else on here", yet you don't know any extremists. Even so, you're still making the case that extremists are here and very dangerous. The only time you mentioned moderates is when your experience was challenged.

 

Your general position is incongruent with your claimed experience, making you either a liar or someone gullible enough to let sensationalist newspaper stories trump your own personal experience. Pick whatever cap fits.

What have I invented? Are you suggesting there aren't extremists here?

[pap]

What have I invented? Are you suggesting there aren't extremists here?

 

Two options:-

 

LIAR = The whole knowing Muslims part.

GULLIBLE = Painting the worst possible picture of Muslims, despite only knowing moderates yourself.

[Sour Mash]

Two options:-

 

LIAR = The whole knowing Muslims part.

GULLIBLE = Painting the worst possible picture of Muslims, despite only knowing moderates yourself.

[Verbal]

East London, Hounslow, Harrow Weald, Edgware Road, Luton, Birmingham, Bradford, Oldham, Rochdale, just as quick examples.

 

Building/opening of Mosques, Islamic Cultural Centres, Halal Butchers, huge influx of a muslim population over the years.

 

You've just listed areas and towns with brown people in them. Hounslow, for example, is predominantly Sikh. Does the presence of a gurdwara there make it 'Sikhified'? Do buildings for brown people's religious worship or dietary needs make you afraid? Would you like to include 'Jewified' areas like Golders Green, with those damned synagogues and kosher butchers?

[Sour Mash]

You've just listed areas and towns with brown people in them. Hounslow, for example, is predominantly Sikh. Does the presence of a gurdwara there make it 'Sikhified'? Do buildings for brown people's religious worship or dietary needs make you afraid? Would you like to include 'Jewified' areas like Golders Green, with those damned synagogues and kosher butchers?

I haven't listed area and towns with "brown people in them", if I wanted to do that there'd be plenty more places I could list. For what it's worth parts of the Sikh community around Southall (Hounslow is becoming Islamified and I've seen confrontations between Sikhs and Muslms about it, but that's another story) and the Jewish community around Golders Green (Stamford Hill is the real problem in terms of their significant unintergration) are unintergrated and should make more effort, but the scale is much smaller than that of Islamfication and there simply haven't been the same problems coming out of those areas, as listed earlier in the thread.

[Jonnyboy]

Wasnt one of the guys who blew up the tube a teacher in a school? Pretty well integrated then.

[Grey Crab]

Collectively they change the culture and outlook of an area, most non-muslim people don't want to live an Islamic area, as they feel like an outsider to the collective culture of the area. Would you want a Mosque built at the end of your road? How often do you shop at a Halal butcher?

 

They built an IKEA near my auntie's house. Totally changed the culture and outlook of the area. Bastards.

[Grey Crab]

I haven't listed area and towns with "brown people in them", if I wanted to do that there'd be plenty more places I could list.

 

Stupidest thing ever written on the internet.

[Grey Crab]

Do you think it is consequently just a coincidence that islamic communities have produced jihadist fighters, Trojan Horse conspirators

 

You know Trojan Horse was a hoax, right?

[Bath Saint]

You know Trojan Horse was a hoax, right?

Ah, but was it....?

[Verbal]

I haven't listed area and towns with "brown people in them", if I wanted to do that there'd be plenty more places I could list. For what it's worth parts of the Sikh community around Southall (Hounslow is becoming Islamified and I've seen confrontations between Sikhs and Muslms about it, but that's another story) and the Jewish community around Golders Green (Stamford Hill is the real problem in terms of their significant unintergration) are unintergrated and should make more effort, but the scale is much smaller than that of Islamfication and there simply haven't been the same problems coming out of those areas, as listed earlier in the thread.

 

 

In what way, exactly, are Jews in Golders Green/Stamford Hill 'unintegrated'? What do Jews have to do to please you? Eat pork and work on Saturdays?

 

In what way, exactly, are Sikhs in Southall 'unintegrated'? what do Sikhs have to do to please you?

 

What 'confrontations' have you seen between Sikhs and Muslims in Southall? (While problems come up from time to time, your implication of chronic inter-communal strife is preposterous, and it suggests you've never set foot in the place).

 

What exactly does Islamified' mean? (And please - don't give the 'mosque+halal butchers' equation. It reads and sounds stupid).

 

As, given the thread topic, you're also presumably tying 'Islamification' (i.e. brown people who have the absolute nerve to go to a mosque every now and then, and buy halal meat) with ISIS murderers, please explain the connection. Blaming whole immigrant communities for a few deluded ****wit death cultists is hardly fair is it?. There are at most 500 death cultists, some of them from immigrant communities of various national backgrounds (by no means all Pakistani) and some drawn from British converts. The vast majority of ISIS are Iraqi (ex-Saddam supporters in the main), Syrian and Chechen.

 

How many 'unintegrated' British Pakistanis contribute hugely to British life, with their energy and creativity? Quite a few more than 500 I would suggest.

[Sour Mash]

In what way, exactly, are Jews in Golders Green/Stamford Hill 'unintegrated'? What do Jews have to do to please you? Eat pork and work on Saturdays?

 

In what way, exactly, are Sikhs in Southall 'unintegrated'? what do Sikhs have to do to please you?

 

What 'confrontations' have you seen between Sikhs and Muslims in Southall? (While problems come up from time to time, your implication of chronic inter-communal strife is preposterous, and it suggests you've never set foot in the place).

 

What exactly does Islamified' mean? (And please - don't give the 'mosque+halal butchers' equation. It reads and sounds stupid).

 

As, given the thread topic, you're also presumably tying 'Islamification' (i.e. brown people who have the absolute nerve to go to a mosque every now and then, and buy halal meat) with ISIS murderers, please explain the connection. Blaming whole immigrant communities for a few deluded ****wit death cultists is hardly fair is it?. There are at most 500 death cultists, some of them from immigrant communities of various national backgrounds (by no means all Pakistani) and some drawn from British converts. The vast majority of ISIS are Iraqi (ex-Saddam supporters in the main), Syrian and Chechen.

 

How many 'unintegrated' British Pakistanis contribute hugely to British life, with their energy and creativity? Quite a few more than 500 I would suggest.

Why do they have to do anything to please me? You were the one that described Golders Green as "Jewified". Golders Green and Stamford Hill are very different areas, Would you describe the hasidic jewish community established around Stamford Hill as integrated into mainstream society? Most jewish people I know don't even consider them integrated into regular jewish society.

 

I haven't suggested seeing any confrontations in Southall. Your lack of knowledge of the significant increase of Muslim population in Hounslow suggests you have not set foot in the area for a very, very long time.

 

Why does an area going from not having any muslim people, mosques, Halal shops, Islamic bookshops, women wearing hijab/niqab, changing to a significant increase in muslim population, mosques, etc, etc not constitute an area becoming islamified?

 

I haven't tied people going to mosques with Isis murders, so don’t continue to make stuff up.

 

My point is a simple one. We have allowed large areas of our towns and cites to become places where individuals consider their particular society and culture above, beyond and ultimately different and separate to mainstream UK society it can be no surprise that such individuals consider it acceptable that to go on Jihadist wars, to Islamify schools, blow themselves up on our tubes and buses. They aren't integrated - and why would they be if the area they live in and those that influence, live and work with them are all living in a society where Islamic culture is dominant, growing and taking over communities that had previously been in situ.

[Batman]

It seems NATO (at least ten nations of it) have decided to come together to fight ISIS

[Jonnyboy]

http://www.fentonreport.com/politics/isis-and-the-definition-of-a-caliphate

[Grey Crab]

Yet more predatory paedophiles, preying on vulnerable girls.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jul/22/how-racism-takes-root

[pap]

Yet more predatory paedophiles, preying on vulnerable girls.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jul/22/how-racism-takes-root

 

Excellent find, Grey Crab.

 

Liked this bit in particular.

 

Imagine if, after Anders Breivik's carnage in Norway last year, which he claimed to be in defence of the Christian world, British people were repeatedly asked whether they supported him? Lumped together in the same white religious group as the killer and constantly told they must renounce him, or explain why we should believe that their type of Christianity – even if they were non-believers – is different from his. "It's nothing to do with me", most people would say. But somehow that answer was never good enough when given by Muslims over al-Qaida. And this hectoring was self-defeating because it caused only greater alienaton and resentment towards the west and, in particular, its foreign policies.

[aintforever]

Excellent find, Grey Crab.

 

Liked this bit in particular.

 

The thing is if I was living in a Muslim country and people like Breivik were repeatedly going round murdering people in the name of my religion I would make sure I renounce him, and wouldn't have a problem with people asking me to.

 

I think you will find a very large amount of muslims in this country who keep their mouths shut sympathise with why muslim extremists do what they do. Few would support their methods but many will support their cause.

Edited 7 September, 2014 by aintforever

[Jonnyboy]

The thing is if I was living in a Muslim country and people like Breivik were repeatedly going round murdering people in the name of my religion I would make sure I renounce him, and wouldn't have a problem with people asking me to.

 

I think you will find a very large amount of muslims in this country who keep their mouths shut sympathise with why muslim extremists do what they do. Few would support their methods but many will support their cause.

 

link?

[Lord Duckhunter]

This is what Yasmin Alibhai-Brown , a well known Muslim leftie said in the independent

 

"I partly blame the families and communities. Too many Asian mothers spoil their boys , undervalue their girls and demean their daughter in laws. Within some Asian British circles the west is immoral and it is OK to take their girls and ruin them further".

 

She went on to say some of her fiercest arguments are with Asians that hold this " disgusting" view.

[Ludwig]

 

I think you will find a very large amount of muslims in this country who keep their mouths shut sympathise with why muslim extremists do what they do. Few would support their methods but many will support their cause.

 

I think that they dont.

 

This is what Yasmin Alibhai-Brown , a well known Muslim leftie said in the independent

 

"I partly blame the families and communities. Too many Asian mothers spoil their boys , undervalue their girls and demean their daughter in laws. Within some Asian British circles the west is immoral and it is OK to take their girls and ruin them further".

 

She went on to say some of her fiercest arguments are with Asians that hold this " disgusting" view.

 

A Muslim AND a leftie? Probably a student at some point as well. I wouldn't listen to this person at all.

[aintforever]

link?

 

How can I have a link to an opinion?

[Jonnyboy]

How can I have a link to an opinion?

 

OK just checking if actual facts about British Muslim opinion were involved in your bigotry.

[aintforever]

OK just checking if actual facts about British Muslim opinion were involved in your bigotry.

 

Just an opinion I got through speaking to muslim friends of mine. Where's the link to prove otherwise?

[Ludwig]

Just an opinion I got through speaking to muslim friends of mine. Where's the link to prove otherwise?

 

Where's the link to prove that thoughts you have had in your own head are not true? Is that what we do now? Someone has a thought, however ill judged, and if someone disagrees they have to provide a link to some website (given that the Internet is the oracle)? Are you mental?

 

You started this ridiculous conversation by stating that the majority of Muslims had sympathy with extremists and terrorists. You have absolutely no basis for this statement other than your own prejudice. Basically, you're a f*cking idiot.

[Patrick Bateman]

Excellent find, Grey Crab.

 

Liked this bit in particular.

 

Guardian article

Imagine if, after Anders Breivik's carnage in Norway last year, which he claimed to be in defence of the Christian world, British people were repeatedly asked whether they supported him? Lumped together in the same white religious group as the killer and constantly told they must renounce him, or explain why we should believe that their type of Christianity – even if they were non-believers – is different from his. "It's nothing to do with me", most people would say. But somehow that answer was never good enough when given by Muslims over al-Qaida. And this hectoring was self-defeating because it caused only greater alienaton and resentment towards the west and, in particular, its foreign policies.

 

 

I don't go with this at all. His style of journalism is no different to the "other papers" and media he's denouncing, it's an opinion that is easily argued against.

 

So, has he asked a load of "Christians" what they thought? I don't think he did. In my opinion, I would argue that if I asked a group os Christians, as they were leaving church, what they thought of Breivik killing people to defend the Christian world, they would say "ooo, that's wrong", "oooo, he's evil" etc. Not many people would say "meh", I'm certain of that.

 

I don't go to church, nor am I religious, I would just say "Bloke's a nutjob", like I think all these utter divs beheading people are.

 

So no, I don't buy this argument at all.

[aintforever]

Where's the link to prove that thoughts you have had in your own head are not true? Is that what we do now? Someone has a thought, however ill judged, and if someone disagrees they have to provide a link to some website (given that the Internet is the oracle)? Are you mental?

 

You started this ridiculous conversation by stating that the majority of Muslims had sympathy with extremists and terrorists. You have absolutely no basis for this statement other than your own prejudice. Basically, you're a f*cking idiot.

 

It was Jonneyboy who asked for the link you f*ck-wit.

 

My opinions are based on talking to muslim people I know and I never once said the majority had sympathy with extremists, just that a large amount of the people keeping quiet will have sympathy with WHY they do what they do. Learn to f*cking read.

 

If you think that our government killing thousands of muslims overseas wont effect the opinion of those in this country then you are the idiot.

[Ludwig]

Youre clearly a bit special so here are some recent quotes from this thread

 

How can I have a link to an opinion?

 

This is where you admit that you have no evidence about most Muslims having sympathy with extremists.

 

OK just checking if actual facts about British Muslim opinion were involved in your bigotry.

 

This is johnny humouring you having realised youre probably special needs.

 

Just an opinion I got through speaking to muslim friends of mine. Where's the link to prove otherwise?

 

This is where you pretend you have Muslim friends and have garnered their opinion. You also (look closely) ask for a link to disprove your own thoughts.

 

The thing is if I was living in a Muslim country and people like Breivik were repeatedly going round murdering people in the name of my religion I would make sure I renounce him, and wouldn't have a problem with people asking me to.

 

I think you will find a very large amount of muslims in this country who keep their mouths shut sympathise with why muslim extremists do what they do. Few would support their methods but many will support their cause.

 

This is the original post you made where you say Muslims "sympathise with why Muslim extremists do what they do"

 

Its very clear to me. You're a bigot and a racist. And unsurprisingly given those characteristics, you're also a complete spaz.

[aintforever]

Youre clearly a bit special so here are some recent quotes from this thread

 

 

 

This is where you admit that you have no evidence about most Muslims having sympathy with extremists.

 

 

 

This is johnny humouring you having realised youre probably special needs.

 

 

 

This is where you pretend you have Muslim friends and have garnered their opinion. You also (look closely) ask for a link to disprove your own thoughts.

 

 

 

This is the original post you made where you say Muslims "sympathise with why Muslim extremists do what they do"

 

Its very clear to me. You're a bigot and a racist. And unsurprisingly given those characteristics, you're also a complete spaz.

 

Oh dear, you obviously have a problem understanding my point.

 

What the hell has racism got to do with anything? Islam is not a race you Nob. **** me are you 12 years old or something?

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

Its very clear to me. You're a bigot and a racist. And unsurprisingly given those characteristics, you're also a complete spaz.

 

If you're going to lecture people and take a holier than thou attitude it's proberly not a good idea to use that word. Having a severely disabled nephew I find it offensive ( as I'm sure others do )

[pap]

Guardian article

Imagine if, after Anders Breivik's carnage in Norway last year, which he claimed to be in defence of the Christian world, British people were repeatedly asked whether they supported him? Lumped together in the same white religious group as the killer and constantly told they must renounce him, or explain why we should believe that their type of Christianity – even if they were non-believers – is different from his. "It's nothing to do with me", most people would say. But somehow that answer was never good enough when given by Muslims over al-Qaida. And this hectoring was self-defeating because it caused only greater alienaton and resentment towards the west and, in particular, its foreign policies.

 

 

I don't go with this at all. His style of journalism is no different to the "other papers" and media he's denouncing, it's an opinion that is easily argued against.

 

So, has he asked a load of "Christians" what they thought? I don't think he did. In my opinion, I would argue that if I asked a group os Christians, as they were leaving church, what they thought of Breivik killing people to defend the Christian world, they would say "ooo, that's wrong", "oooo, he's evil" etc. Not many people would say "meh", I'm certain of that.

 

I don't go to church, nor am I religious, I would just say "Bloke's a nutjob", like I think all these utter divs beheading people are.

 

So no, I don't buy this argument at all.

 

I don't think that his point at all. The question is whether it is even reasonable to ask the question of Christians. You and I would get pretty tired, pretty quickly if we were forced to somehow accept the crimes of those because we bore a cultural or religious similarity to the perpetrators. Yet this is what we ask the "Muslim community" to do. As others have explained much more succinctly than I, there isn't really a Muslim community, just as there isn't an all-compassing Christian community you can readily put your hands on. If you take a look at the Muslim world, you see a group of nations that have very different ideas about how it should be practiced. Yet somehow, here, they're all the same, and our politicians make the unreasonable demand that we get a communal response from a thing that is not actually a community.

 

Apart from subscription to some of the same core religious beliefs (such as the way all Christians see Jesus as the son of God), the only thing that unites these people is the external perception that they're all a bit dodgy, and the ridiculous demand that they collectively justify themselves.

 

That's why I enjoyed seeing the shoe on other foot. The argument really doesn't get to walk that far.

[Batman]

Surely it wont be long before 'jihadi John' is captured, killed or begging to return to his 1 bed council flat in bradford

[Aziz Yebda]

Here is my solution for Syria and Iraq.

 

Drop several Nuclear bombs on it

[benjii]

If I go on holiday to Turkey in a couple of weeks is some beardy, "I'm defending Islamic brothers, isn't it", going to try to kidknapp me?

 

I'm thinking attacks in/on Turkey are unlikely as they would be likely to push Turkey into US coalition. Is that sound logic and, more importantly, do the beardies ever do logic?

[Lorne Malvo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td9SyiIRHWs

 

Seems they are trying to goad the Yanks in.