Saints Following in Everton's Footsteps?

[washsaint]

After the initial dismay at the team being dismantled earlier in the summer, I now believe we will certainly finish top 10 this year.

 

I am thankful we have missed out on the 'marquee' signings (Rojo - shown to be a mercenary, Hernandez - what has he actually ever done?) and have gone for good, solid professionals that will do a job for us with the minimum fuss. Truly believe Gaston will be like a new signing to us this season with a manager who believes in him.

 

We have strengthened in positions we knew needed strengthening and now appear to have good depth to the squad that was not there previously.

 

It feels like we are going about the new 'project' in an Everton type way: not overly exciting in terms of buys but sustainable and long term planning that should bring stability to the club. Add to that with 2, maybe 3, young players such as McQueen, Reed and Gallagher looking to have breakthrough years and suddenly things look a lot brighter than earlier in the transfer window.

 

I'm not expecting to be as right royally entertained as last season but is should certainly be interesting and we should have a good guage of how the season is likely to pan out after the first 10 games or so.

 

Feeling a lot more confident going into the new season now.

[Batman]

I do not think so, really

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Everton managed to sustain their league position while absorbing the loss of one or two individuals a year.

 

I doubt we'll sustain 8th and we have lost far more than a few individuals.

 

I still think we will finish 15th or so as regardless of the quality you buy this amount of change is hard to accommodate without performances being impacted. I suspect we'll never know the full story behind what has happened since May and I continue to be concerned that Les Reed is our DoF however I suppose there will be a sense of familiarity with how this season is about to pan out. Back to the 'same old same old'.

[hypochondriac]

Nah.

[Colinjb]

I don't believe that a top ten finish will be achieved this year, however I agree with the principles that you are applying. Whilst we are no bigger in terms of general stature then many of the teams around us the academy provides a springboard for greater generation of funding and talent.

 

A slower long term approach can see us grow, but there will be challenges in ensuring that the academy continues it's success and that any funds reinvested do actively strengthen us through adding greater strength in depth and improving on what we have. I would look at Atletico Madrid as another inspiration, continually selling their better players but maintaining a knack of coming out of it smelling of roses.

[ericb]

Is this the same Everton model that's seen them win the league and numerous cups in my lifetime, or the model that's seen them get into Europe on an incredibly regular basis, or the model that saw Everton as one of the traditional Big Four, or the model that has them as one of the best supported clubs in the country (ground restrictions of Goodison aside), or the model that hasn't seen them relegated since the 1930s?

 

Just asking because many on here seem to compare us to them regularly when i'd always naively thought they were a far, far bigger side

[Colinjb]

Is this the same Everton model that's seen them win the league and numerous cups in my lifetime, or the model that's seen them get into Europe on an incredibly regular basis, or the model that saw Everton as one of the traditional Big Four, or the model that has them as one of the best supported clubs in the country (ground restrictions of Goodison aside), or the model that hasn't seen them relegated since the 1930s?

 

Just asking because many on here seem to compare us to them regularly when i'd always naively thought they were a far, far bigger side

 

I would assume the Everton model that saw them stop being Premier League relegation fodder at the very start of last decade and move into the category of a consistent top 8 club.

[ericb]

I would assume the Everton model that saw them stop being Premier League relegation fodder at the very start of last decade and move into the category of a consistent top 8 club.

 

Ah i see so you're basing it on the 3 times they flirted with relegation since the outset of the premier league, so 3 seasons out of 22. As opposed to the 11 seasons out 22 they finished top 10, or the 18 out of 22 they've finished in the top half of the premier league table.

 

Yup i can see which model that is now, the one where a big and incredibly successful club had a few freakishly bad seasons model. I can't argue with that at all.

 

Oh and for reference...

 

 

1992-93 42 7 6 8 26 27 8 2 11 27 28 -2 53 13th

1993-94 42 8 4 9 26 30 4 4 13 16 33 -21 44 17th

1994-95 42 8 9 4 31 23 3 8 10 13 28 -7 50 15th

1995-96 38 10 5 4 35 19 7 5 7 29 25 +20 61 6th

1996-97 38 7 4 8 24 22 3 8 8 20 35 -13 42 15th

1997-98 38 7 5 7 25 27 2 8 9 16 29 -15 40 17th

1998-99 38 6 8 5 22 12 5 2 12 20 35 -7 43 14th

1999-2k 38 7 9 3 36 19 5 5 9 23 28 +12 50 13th

2000-01 38 6 8 5 29 27 5 1 13 16 32 -14 42 16th

2001-02 38 8 4 7 26 23 3 6 10 19 34 -12 43 15th

2002-03 38 11 5 3 28 19 6 3 10 20 30 -1 59 7th

2003-04 38 8 5 6 27 20 1 7 11 18 37 -12 39 17th

2004-05 38 12 2 5 24 15 6 5 8 21 31 -1 61 4th

2005-06 38 8 4 7 22 22 6 4 9 12 27 -15 50 11th

2006-07 38 11 4 4 33 17 4 9 6 19 19 +16 58 6th

2007-08 38 11 4 4 34 17 8 4 7 21 16 +22 65 5th

2008-09 38 8 6 5 31 20 9 6 4 24 17 +18 63 5th

2009-10 38 11 6 2 35 21 5 7 7 25 28 +11 61 8th

2010-11 38 9 7 3 31 23 4 8 7 20 22 +6 54 7th

2011-12 38 10 3 6 28 15 5 8 6 22 25 +10 56 7th

2012-13 38 12 6 1 33 17 4 9 6 22 23 +15 63 6th

2013-14 38 13 3 3 38 19 8 6 5 23 20 +22 72 5th

[Colinjb]

Ah i see so you're basing it on the 3 times they flirted with relegation since the outset of the premier league, so 3 seasons out of 22. As opposed to the 11 seasons out 22 they finished top 10, or the 18 out of 22 they've finished in the top half of the premier league table.

 

Yup i can see which model that is now, the one where a big and incredibly successful club had a few freakishly bad seasons model. I can't argue with that at all.

 

Oh and for reference...

 

 

1992-93 42 7 6 8 26 27 8 2 11 27 28 -2 53 13th

1993-94 42 8 4 9 26 30 4 4 13 16 33 -21 44 17th

1994-95 42 8 9 4 31 23 3 8 10 13 28 -7 50 15th

1995-96 38 10 5 4 35 19 7 5 7 29 25 +20 61 6th

1996-97 38 7 4 8 24 22 3 8 8 20 35 -13 42 15th

1997-98 38 7 5 7 25 27 2 8 9 16 29 -15 40 17th

1998-99 38 6 8 5 22 12 5 2 12 20 35 -7 43 14th

1999-2k 38 7 9 3 36 19 5 5 9 23 28 +12 50 13th

2000-01 38 6 8 5 29 27 5 1 13 16 32 -14 42 16th

2001-02 38 8 4 7 26 23 3 6 10 19 34 -12 43 15th

2002-03 38 11 5 3 28 19 6 3 10 20 30 -1 59 7th

2003-04 38 8 5 6 27 20 1 7 11 18 37 -12 39 17th

2004-05 38 12 2 5 24 15 6 5 8 21 31 -1 61 4th

2005-06 38 8 4 7 22 22 6 4 9 12 27 -15 50 11th

2006-07 38 11 4 4 33 17 4 9 6 19 19 +16 58 6th

2007-08 38 11 4 4 34 17 8 4 7 21 16 +22 65 5th

2008-09 38 8 6 5 31 20 9 6 4 24 17 +18 63 5th

2009-10 38 11 6 2 35 21 5 7 7 25 28 +11 61 8th

2010-11 38 9 7 3 31 23 4 8 7 20 22 +6 54 7th

2011-12 38 10 3 6 28 15 5 8 6 22 25 +10 56 7th

2012-13 38 12 6 1 33 17 4 9 6 22 23 +15 63 6th

2013-14 38 13 3 3 38 19 8 6 5 23 20 +22 72 5th

 

Out of those stats it's clear to see that Everton transformed from a club experiencing ten years of stagnation into one of the best clubs outside of the champions league spots. Not a bad thing to try, no? I'm not disputing Everton's size compared to ourselves but to try and emulate their recent progress is surely not a bad idea? Why be so down on it?

 

Why can Everton do that and yet Aston Villa and Newcastle havn't in recent times?

Edited 13 August, 2014 by Colinjb

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Ah i see so you're basing it on the 3 times they flirted with relegation since the outset of the premier league, so 3 seasons out of 22. As opposed to the 11 seasons out 22 they finished top 10, or the 18 out of 22 they've finished in the top half of the premier league table.

 

Yup i can see which model that is now, the one where a big and incredibly successful club had a few freakishly bad seasons model. I can't argue with that at all.

 

Oh and for reference...

 

 

1992-93 42 7 6 8 26 27 8 2 11 27 28 -2 53 13th

1993-94 42 8 4 9 26 30 4 4 13 16 33 -21 44 17th

1994-95 42 8 9 4 31 23 3 8 10 13 28 -7 50 15th

1995-96 38 10 5 4 35 19 7 5 7 29 25 +20 61 6th

1996-97 38 7 4 8 24 22 3 8 8 20 35 -13 42 15th

1997-98 38 7 5 7 25 27 2 8 9 16 29 -15 40 17th

1998-99 38 6 8 5 22 12 5 2 12 20 35 -7 43 14th

1999-2k 38 7 9 3 36 19 5 5 9 23 28 +12 50 13th

2000-01 38 6 8 5 29 27 5 1 13 16 32 -14 42 16th

2001-02 38 8 4 7 26 23 3 6 10 19 34 -12 43 15th

2002-03 38 11 5 3 28 19 6 3 10 20 30 -1 59 7th

2003-04 38 8 5 6 27 20 1 7 11 18 37 -12 39 17th

2004-05 38 12 2 5 24 15 6 5 8 21 31 -1 61 4th

2005-06 38 8 4 7 22 22 6 4 9 12 27 -15 50 11th

2006-07 38 11 4 4 33 17 4 9 6 19 19 +16 58 6th

2007-08 38 11 4 4 34 17 8 4 7 21 16 +22 65 5th

2008-09 38 8 6 5 31 20 9 6 4 24 17 +18 63 5th

2009-10 38 11 6 2 35 21 5 7 7 25 28 +11 61 8th

2010-11 38 9 7 3 31 23 4 8 7 20 22 +6 54 7th

2011-12 38 10 3 6 28 15 5 8 6 22 25 +10 56 7th

2012-13 38 12 6 1 33 17 4 9 6 22 23 +15 63 6th

2013-14 38 13 3 3 38 19 8 6 5 23 20 +22 72 5th

 

Isn't top half and top 10 the same thing really..?

[angelman]

I do not think so, really

 

Nah.

 

You two are boringly pessimistic so I doubt anyone really cares what you think.

[Batman]

You two are boringly pessimistic so I doubt anyone really cares what you think.

 

how is it pessimistic to not think we are not following a model based on everton?

[Smirking_Saint]

how is it pessimistic to not think we are not following a model based on everton?

 

He is so boringly optimistic I dont really care what he thinks

[hypochondriac]

how is it pessimistic to not think we are not following a model based on everton?

 

Or that we will certainly finish top ten. Angelman is boringly optimistic so I doubt anyone really cares what he thinks.

[Wrensup]

 

We have strengthened in positions we knew needed strengthening and now appear to have good depth to the squad that was not there previously.

 

You surely must be kidding... we're barely covering what we've lost, let alone added more depth to the squad.

[washsaint]

quelle surpris - usual suspects come out of the woodwork to sneer and tell us we are falling apart. Going for top 6-8 finish most seasons and trying to get into Europe would be a success for a club our size

 

As someone on another thread has said, we now appear to have 2 players for pretty much every position which gives us the strength in depth we did not have last season (even if individually the players might not be like for like talent wise with what we have lost).

 

Question for you Batman - you are very good at saying 'no' so what is your vision for how Saints should move forward? Surely you have one as you seem quick to say no to anything anyone posts remotely positive?

[Batman]

quelle surpris - usual suspects come out of the woodwork to sneer and tell us we are falling apart. Going for top 6-8 finish most seasons and trying to get into Europe would be a success for a club our size

 

As someone on another thread has said, we now appear to have 2 players for pretty much every position which gives us the strength in depth we did not have last season (even if individually the players might not be like for like talent wise with what we have lost).

 

Question for you Batman - you are very good at saying 'no' so what is your vision for how Saints should move forward? Surely you have one as you seem quick to say no to anything anyone posts remotely positive?

if that is aimed at me, how is saying NO (basically, saying I dont think we are doing anything like everton do/did) sneering at anything what so ever?

 

my vision. simple really, what most of the footballing world outside of saintsweb think....simply do not sell half the team in one window

that is my vision. its hardly revolutionary/impossible as nearly all teams manage it every summer

[Smirking_Saint]

Going for top 6-8 every season would certainly be a success for a club our size however I cant see it happening this year, or next. If we consistantly strengthen season on season maybe but this window has taken us backwards. We may have more depth but the quality is less.

 

Im not 100% convinced with Koeman yet. I think he will be decent but I just dont see him being as tactically sound as Poch. Hopefuly I am wrong

 

Dont get me wrong, we will be ok this year, but I certainly dont see the comparisons with Everton

[Colinjb]

if that is aimed at me, how is saying NO (basically, saying I dont think we are doing anything like everton do/did) sneering at anything what so ever?

 

my vision. simple really, what most of the footballing world outside of saintsweb think....simply do not sell half the team in one window

that is my vision. its hardly revolutionary/impossible as nearly all teams manage it every summer

 

How would you have managed this whilst ensuring team harmony and financial stability? Just curious....

[Batman]

How would you have managed this whilst ensuring team harmony and financial stability? Just curious....

 

how does every other team manage it?

how have everton managed it this summer, they were not top 4

 

how come we can manage it now with morgan and jrod, but nor with chambers and say, lambert?

 

havent we been told time and time again that the sales were absolutely NOT financially motivated?

[hypochondriac]

Going for top 6-8 every season would certainly be a success for a club our size however I cant see it happening this year, or next. If we consistantly strengthen season on season maybe but this window has taken us backwards. We may have more depth but the quality is less.

 

Im not 100% convinced with Koeman yet. I think he will be decent but I just dont see him being as tactically sound as Poch. Hopefuly I am wrong

 

Dont get me wrong, we will be ok this year, but I certainly dont see the comparisons with Everton

 

Agree with most of that. Not sure I'm as confident as you about being OK though.

[Colinjb]

how does every other team manage it?

how have everton managed it this summer, they were not top 4

 

how come we can manage it now with morgan and jrod, but nor with chambers and say, lambert?

 

havent we been told time and time again that the sales were absolutely NOT financially motivated?

 

Is that ensuring team Harmony? Morgan's head certainly isn't right, we have a player worth in excess of £20m playing chicken with his career currently. Do we have the same commercial and total income as Everton to keep our team together, they have massive wages for some of their players, could we really match them?

 

I accept your points but we are not Everton, we are not as big as Everton or have their financial means. We are not a big club, we are currently mid table premier league at best.

 

So given that how would we have kept the squad together?

[OldNick]

Is that the Everton we are following, who kept their star young players and also added a 23m striker?

[eelpie]

After the initial dismay at the team being dismantled earlier in the summer, I now believe we will certainly finish top 10 this year.

 

I am thankful we have missed out on the 'marquee' signings (Rojo - shown to be a mercenary, Hernandez - what has he actually ever done?) and have gone for good, solid professionals that will do a job for us with the minimum fuss. Truly believe Gaston will be like a new signing to us this season with a manager who believes in him.

 

We have strengthened in positions we knew needed strengthening and now appear to have good depth to the squad that was not there previously.

 

It feels like we are going about the new 'project' in an Everton type way: not overly exciting in terms of buys but sustainable and long term planning that should bring stability to the club. Add to that with 2, maybe 3, young players such as McQueen, Reed and Gallagher looking to have breakthrough years and suddenly things look a lot brighter than earlier in the transfer window.

 

I'm not expecting to be as right royally entertained as last season but is should certainly be interesting and we should have a good guage of how the season is likely to pan out after the first 10 games or so.

 

Feeling a lot more confident going into the new season now.

 

No. We have not strengthened by replacing Rodriguez who will not be fully fit and in form if he is back in October, and he wants off anyway. Then we know that a January replacement won't happen till June if the last few weeks are anything to go by. I'd like to be wrong.