Block34 Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Every single one of the names you list has absolutely no experience of top-flight football and would represent a monstrous gamble. Given the forward options at our disposal, we needed somebody who has been there and done it. His record isn't outstanding by any stretch of the imagination but considering it's now costing £10-11m to sign a player with goals in the Championship, that's the ridiculous situation this league now finds itself in. The top clubs can afford to pay the £20-40m it costs to get 20-goal strikers, we're shopping a level down from that. Nobody has yet come up with the name of a striker currently playing in the Premier League who would be a better option for a similar fee and would realistically sign for us. Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Vokes. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Every single one of the names you list has absolutely no experience of top-flight football and would represent a monstrous gamble. Given the forward options at our disposal, we needed somebody who has been there and done it. His record isn't outstanding by any stretch of the imagination but considering it's now costing £10-11m to sign a player with goals in the Championship, that's the ridiculous situation this league now finds itself in. The top clubs can afford to pay the £20-40m it costs to get 20-goal strikers, we're shopping a level down from that. Nobody has yet come up with the name of a striker currently playing in the Premier League who would be a better option for a similar fee and would realistically sign for us. Why is a striker with prem experience now a sudden requirement? Did it stop Chelsea when they bought Costa or Arsenal when they bought Sanchez or Swansea when they bought Bony or Villa when they bought Benteke or Wigan when they bought Kone etc etc etc. £12m spent wisely should get you more than 7-8 goals a season -and before you ask, that's the job of the 20 man scouting team not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Vokes. LOL. yeh, maybe Sam Baldock is worth a punt as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Why is a striker with prem experience now a sudden requirement? Did it stop Chelsea when they bought Costa or Arsenal when they bought Sanchez or Swansea when they bought Bony or Villa when they bought Benteke or Wigan when they bought Kone etc etc etc. £12m spent wisely should get you more than 7-8 goals a season -and before you ask, that's the job of the 20 man scouting team not mine. The slight difference is that we had no one at our club with premier league experience up front. Chelsea have Drogba and Torres as options too. Swansea had Michu, Villa had Bent. We had no one, we couldn't really afford a gamble. We needed someone who has done in this league before, not amazing records, but reliable. If we went into the season with 2 unproven foreigners and a young kid in Gallagher then its' a huge gamble, utterly massive gamble. So we've obviously paid a tad over just to ensure we got that experience. Still not quite sure who else is gettable for us with PL experience. Long is a good fit in that sense, and also with the attributes he brings to the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernsaint Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 I said on here a few days ago we needed a busy striker. Long fits the bill. Scares defenders with pace and creates space. Works socks off. I think his confidence took a knock when wba bought anelka hence few goals last term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangy Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Never mind signing, has he had a medical yet? I heard he has had 2 already and will have the other 3 by the weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restark19 Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Anyone who thinks McCormack would be a better use of £12m than Long is delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Full of ****e for speaking my mind. Do you believe this is good business or have you been brainwashed by the morons ruining our club. Please enlighten me how a players value rises by 60% in 8 months with only 15 appearances and 4 goals to his name? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this is an appalling bit of business. I've not spoken to a single person who thinks it's a good deal. A Friend who supports Hull was on the phone ****ing himself laughing. Does that not say something? Ulloa, Ings, Rhodes, Vokes, Deeney. Every one of them could do a job for us and for less money. Yes, they may be a bit of a gamble but isn't that what Long is? His track record suggests so. Even McCormack would've been a better way of spending £12m. I look forward to a load of abuse. If there's one thing this forum is good for it's personal insults and abuse for having an opinion that doesn't fit with the 'in crowd'. F**k me, you really are a clueless mong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Is there any truth that hull have a 20% sell on clause built into the £12 million transfer fee Some one call an ambulance as Sidney muddled mind will gave coronary if it's true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Has he signed yet? Never mind signing, has he had a medical yet? Never mind signing or medicals, is his head here yet??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Why is a striker with prem experience now a sudden requirement? Did it stop Chelsea when they bought Costa or Arsenal when they bought Sanchez or Swansea when they bought Bony or Villa when they bought Benteke or Wigan when they bought Kone etc etc etc. £12m spent wisely should get you more than 7-8 goals a season -and before you ask, that's the job of the 20 man scouting team not mine. Agree don't think prem experience is a musy. Splurging 12m on a mediocre player just because he has some prem experience is awful imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 (edited) The slight difference is that we had no one at our club with premier league experience up front. Chelsea have Drogba and Torres as options too. Swansea had Michu, Villa had Bent. We had no one, we couldn't really afford a gamble. We needed someone who has done in this league before, not amazing records, but reliable. If we went into the season with 2 unproven foreigners and a young kid in Gallagher then its' a huge gamble, utterly massive gamble. So we've obviously paid a tad over just to ensure we got that experience. Still not quite sure who else is gettable for us with PL experience. Long is a good fit in that sense, and also with the attributes he brings to the party. Agree to some extent, though it's partly a problem of our own making. Perhaps we would have had more room for manoeuvre if we hadn't been so keen to dismantle a prem battle-hardened team and then fill it with unproven talent. Now we have done so - I guess we're hedging our bets -that's not to say prem strikers always work out (Graham, Bent etc)- and as a result having to pay over the odds. Seen a lot of Long - he brings consistency in terms of work rate but that shouldn't mask what is a distinctly average finisher with a suspect first touch. Edited 13 August, 2014 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Alex Crook on talkSPORT now talking Gardos and Long. Did he reveal anything earth shattering about these deals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Why is a striker with prem experience now a sudden requirement? Did it stop Chelsea when they bought Costa or Arsenal when they bought Sanchez or Swansea when they bought Bony or Villa when they bought Benteke or Wigan when they bought Kone etc etc etc. You're actually using Costa and Sanchez as examples?! £30m+ signings who have proven records at the absolute highest level of the game. Definitely realistic options for us... When you're in the market we're operating in - and, just to clarify for you, we're not in the market for a £30m+ striker - there is a far lower guarantee of success. Bony, Benteke and Kone (to a lesser extent) have been successful buys for a good price, and that's clearly the lines we looked at with Pelle. Goalscoring pedigree in another league is fine, but you can't rely on solely scouting abroad because not every player adapts immediately to a new country, a new system, etc. Sometimes you have to look domestically, especially if you want to get a deal done quickly, even though you generally don't get anywhere near the same value. That obviously points the finger at the club for taking too long to get things in place, which is a fair criticism, and as a result we are going to end up paying a bit of a premium, but that would have happened to an extent anyway with the knowledge of the business we were going to be doing in the other direction. £12m spent wisely should get you more than 7-8 goals a season -and before you ask, that's the job of the 20 man scouting team not mine. He's been playing for teams who don't create many chances. We created 11% more chances than West Brom last season and a whopping 26% more than Hull. In a team that creates more, it stands to reason that a striker is likely to have an opportunity to score more goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttawaSaint Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Don't forget according to the forum experts just how **** Crouch was supposed to be when we signed him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 If big Ron thinks he will fit in with our system I am happy to pay a premium given our current position. There is no point going into the season without options up front with £50mill sat in the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 If big Ron thinks he will fit in with our system I am happy to pay a premium given our current position. There is no point going into the season without options up front with £50mill sat in the bank. Isn't that a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 (edited) You're actually using Costa and Sanchez as examples?! £30m+ signings who have proven records at the absolute highest level of the game. Definitely realistic options for us... When you're in the market we're operating in - and, just to clarify for you, we're not in the market for a £30m+ striker - there is a far lower guarantee of success. Bony, Benteke and Kone (to a lesser extent) have been successful buys for a good price, and that's clearly the lines we looked at with Pelle. Goalscoring pedigree in another league is fine, but you can't rely on solely scouting abroad because not every player adapts immediately to a new country, a new system, etc. Sometimes you have to look domestically, especially if you want to get a deal done quickly, even though you generally don't get anywhere near the same value. That obviously points the finger at the club for taking too long to get things in place, which is a fair criticism, and as a result we are going to end up paying a bit of a premium, but that would have happened to an extent anyway with the knowledge of the business we were going to be doing in the other direction. He's been playing for teams who don't create many chances. We created 11% more chances than West Brom last season and a whopping 26% more than Hull. In a team that creates more, it stands to reason that a striker is likely to have an opportunity to score more goals. I could reel off many more examples of successful foreign buys. Note I didn't make the Costa/Sanchez reference because we're playing in that market- just saying that they too represent massive gambles. Obviously they're not gambles in the sense that they won't get goals; but they are gambles insofar as they're expected to score enough goals to win a title. Still this hasn't stopped the likes of Chelsea or Arsenal going foreign on unproven prem players. Edited 13 August, 2014 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratio_decidendi Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Bony, Benteke and Kone (to a lesser extent) have been successful buys for a good price, and that's clearly the lines we looked at with Pelle. Goalscoring pedigree in another league is fine, but you can't rely on solely scouting abroad because not every player adapts immediately to a new country, a new system, etc. Sometimes you have to look domestically, especially if you want to get a deal done quickly, even though you generally don't get anywhere near the same value. That obviously points the finger at the club for taking too long to get things in place, which is a fair criticism, and as a result we are going to end up paying a bit of a premium, but that would have happened to an extent anyway with the knowledge of the business we were going to be doing in the other direction. It's interesting that we haven't been linked with him. He didn't really feature for Everton last season and sure he's thirty, but considering the position we're in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Who remembers twenty four hours ago, back in the days when absolutely no one on here at all was talking about us signing Shane Long, or saying they wished we were signing Shane Long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Who remembers twenty four hours ago, back in the days when absolutely no one on here at all was talking about us signing Shane Long, or saying they wished we were signing Shane Long? I remember two months ago when nobody had heard of Dusan Tadic and 3 months ago when James Rodriguez was looking fairly over priced at Monaco too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 I remember two months ago when nobody had heard of Dusan Tadic and 3 months ago when James Rodriguez was looking fairly over priced at Monaco too. I remember 3 months ago when we had Pochettino as Manager and £100m+ worth of five extra players in the squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 I remember two months ago when nobody had heard of Dusan Tadic and 3 months ago when James Rodriguez was looking fairly over priced at Monaco too. When we signed Tadic no one immediately started talking about him as the only logical option for us the way Long is being described by some now. And what didnt happen with Tadic was that anyone daring to be slightly underwhelmed by Long is then rounded on to NAME SOMEONE BETTER like Shane Long was the perfect fit no-brainer signing we all wanted all along. But such a perfect fit that no one mentioned him, despite gazillions of players speculated here upon since May and the fact he has been a front line Prem name for half a decade, not like Tadic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 It's interesting that we haven't been linked with him. He didn't really feature for Everton last season and sure he's thirty, but considering the position we're in... Spent most of the season on the treatment table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Long is clearly using us as a stepping stone for a move to a Champions League club next year :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Long is clearly using us as a stepping stone for a move to a Champions League club next year :-( You must mean championship club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 (edited) It's not. I've asked this question several times and aside from ideas like playing him in the number 10 role (!) people are shoving him on the left. He has different characteristics to the rest of our strikers and I get that but our formation just does not make sense for him. David Silva is 'shoved' out on the left, but he rarely often plays there. The width at which a player can play varies, shockingly. It is incumbent upon our full-backs to provide the width. Edit: I'm not suggesting that there isn't a degree a risk with him playing there, because there is, but I'm of the opinion that he certainly has the physical attributes to play there, probably has the mental attributes, and potentially has the technical attributes. Edited 13 August, 2014 by Donatello Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 David Silva is 'shoved' out on the left, but he rarely often plays there. The width at which a player can play varies, shockingly. It is incumbent upon our full-backs to provide the width. Rarely often? *head explodes* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratio_decidendi Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Spent most of the season on the treatment table. Ah, I guess that makes sense then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Who remembers twenty four hours ago, back in the days when absolutely no one on here at all was talking about us signing Shane Long, or saying they wished we were signing Shane Long? I remember *everyone* saying we *need* another striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 I remember *everyone* saying we *need* another striker. I still think we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Rarely often? *head explodes* Haha, failed to C&P correctly, obviously i.e. 'often 'shoved' out on the left' and 'rarely plays there'. Apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 I still think we do. Greedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Greedy. And ambitious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Greedy. Hungry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 David Silva is 'shoved' out on the left, but he rarely often plays there. The width at which a player can play varies, shockingly. It is incumbent upon our full-backs to provide the width. Edit: I'm not suggesting that there isn't a degree a risk with him playing there, because there is, but I'm of the opinion that he certainly has the physical attributes to play there, probably has the mental attributes, and potentially has the technical attributes. I understand that different types of players can start wide and come inside. I just question whether a striker who has made it his staple to start in the centre and run into channels is the right sort of player to start out wide and then do whatever Koeman wants the guy occupying that role to do. If indeed our width is to continue to come from the full-backs then I am even more confused as to why we've been chasing wingers all summer. But if there has been a change of heart and Long is to be the man to start out there it'll be interesting to see how well he can adapt to this new role. Would be a £12m gamble for me - buy a proven Premier League striker and then play him in a completely alien role to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 I could reel off many more examples of successful foreign buys. Note I didn't make the Costa/Sanchez reference because we're playing in that market- just saying that they too represent massive gambles. Obviously they're not gambles in the sense that they won't get goals; but they are gambles insofar as they're expected to score enough goals to win a title. Still this hasn't stopped the likes of Chelsea or Arsenal going foreign on unproven prem players. Ouch, you are being pwned today aren't you fella. Well, look on the bright side, tomorrow's another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevy777_x Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 If we are looking for that kind of player why not go for Kuyt, who would be much cheaper than 12m and proven PL striker who can also play on the wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 This thread is interesting as there are so many posters outlining what various players have done to date. I get the impression we have a coach and support staff in place now who prefer working with the whole team as a unit and have little time for prima donnas doing their own thing. If he sees something in the players he's signing as good 'raw material' to work on , his pedigree suggests we should trust him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 (edited) Ouch, you are being pwned today aren't you fella. Well, look on the bright side, tomorrow's another day. Not at all - a serious point that stands, as others have pointed out. Edited 13 August, 2014 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 If we are looking for that kind of player why not go for Kuyt, who would be much cheaper than 12m and proven PL striker who can also play on the wing. ... or at Right Back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Not at all - a serious point that stands, as others have pointed out. Keep up :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 :lol: You know you've lost the argument when the only thing you can respond with is an emoticon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 I understand that different types of players can start wide and come inside. I just question whether a striker who has made it his staple to start in the centre and run into channels is the right sort of player to start out wide and then do whatever Koeman wants the guy occupying that role to do. If indeed our width is to continue to come from the full-backs then I am even more confused as to why we've been chasing wingers all summer. But if there has been a change of heart and Long is to be the man to start out there it'll be interesting to see how well he can adapt to this new role. Would be a £12m gamble for me - buy a proven Premier League striker and then play him in a completely alien role to him. All true enough. I think adding a winger simply provides versatility to the current squad. Different options and all that. Ultimately, it's going to be JRod/Pelle/Tadic, so Long and winger will become rotation/impact players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 (edited) :lol: Exactly you don't have an intelligent response. Know your limits pal - stick to the asset-stripping thread and your pea-brained hatchet job: maybe next time you'll be able to dredge up a few more posters rather than quoting the same ones over and over. Edited 13 August, 2014 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Exactly you don't have an intelligent response Know your limits: maybe next time you'll be able to dredge up a few more posters rather than quoting the same ones over and over as part of your pea-brained hatchet job. That was in relation to the discussion we had earlier that you pulled out of. Oh, and the one about Spanish taxes that you never responded to. But nah, we'll leave then for another time shall we mug! I see Hypo is taking your side. Be careful, a man is judged by the company he keeps. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Despite all the division on here I am still happy that we looking at a guy with experience in this league rather than wait for a player from the continent to find his feet, we already have a few of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 F**k me, you really are a clueless mong. Didn't take long did it. Why use the forum to discuss things and make a valid contribution when you can simply reply with statements like that. Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 13 August, 2014 Share Posted 13 August, 2014 Bang on! You ****ing ****ish cockfaced tit! Simply Fudgepacker more like, lol! That OK? Hmmm, not bad but I'm sure you can do better? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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