Shane Long

[Lighthouse]

End of the day, Hull are set to get 12m for Long and then spend 10m on Troy Deeney.

 

Who is getting the best of that deal? One has played over 100 PL games, the other none.

 

One has been in prison, the other hasn't...similar age.

 

The prices are crazy this summer, if you don't pay them then you wouldnt be able to bring anyone in.

 

If we sell Jay we would all expect us to ask for at least £20m, which is would probably make a player like Long worth somewhere in the region of £10m by comparison.

 

Kenwyne Jones has nearly 200, surely we are better going for him.

[Mallagroth]

I do pal. Idiots. Internet football fans barring a handful are idiots

 

No doubt the ones whinging about signing long now were the same ones begging Osvaldo and Ramirez to sign this time the last two years, despite probably having never seen them play or have heard of them.

 

Probably the same ones whinging when we came up that Clyne & Rodriguez didn't have premier league experience

 

Probably the same ones whinging all summer we're being asset stripped and have no ambition

 

Probably the same ones who have been whinging all summer we're making derisory offers for players who don't want to come here.

 

Now we're about to make a decent if unspectacular signing and they're out in force again whinging that we're paying too much, he isn't a foreigner with a fancy name who we simply have to sign and would be a real statement of intent, despite having never heard of them until the links appeared in the paper.

 

 

Idiots pal, at least 80% of 'em.

 

[Saint IQ]

Fraizer Campbell as good an all round striker as Shane Long. Behave.

[shurlock]

Fraizer Campbell as good an all round striker as Shane Long. Behave.

 

Not going to pull any trees out but was certainly more impressive than Long last season in a woeful Cardiff side. Enjoyed a full season, without injury.

 

Remind me how many times £800K goes into £12m?

 

[Sour Mash]

Shane Long for half the price, or someone else much better for £12m.

I've stuck by the board all summer, I am pretty pleased with the signings thus far and we got good prices for those who have left. This transfer has a whiff of desperation about it, as though we've failed to secure any of our other targets and have thought, "sh*t we need a striker, now," 3 days before the season kicks off.

 

It reminds me of 2007 a bit, when we got spanked by Palace on the opening day and it suddenly occurred to Burley that a football team may actually need defenders. So he went out and bough Wayne Thomas for £1.2m, a few days after Coventry had a bid of £250k accepted.

Which strikers are available for £12m, are much better than Long and wll come to us?

[Badger]

4? He scored 7 Premier League goals in 2013/14.

 

8 in 2012/13 and 8 in 2011/12.

 

Hardly a prolific goalscorer then.

 

Can only hope other areas of his game, ans 'assists' make up for this. I've not seen enough of him to judge,but from the limited amount seen and read he does seem a bit in the Ormerod (for effort)/Speedie or Dickov (for niggling and aggression) mould. At £6/7m that would be fine perhaps, but £12m ?

[stevegrant]

It's clear that Koeman has identified the "type" of forward he wants to sign, someone with a burst of pace, busy, a pain in the arse for defenders. I assume there aren't any strikers of that type available or deemed suitable from the Eredivisie, the market that Koeman knows best, so he's looked domestically instead. The scouting system and analysts have presumably given him a list of players who have the attributes he is looking for, which is why we've been linked with Javier Hernandez for ages, and with it becoming clear that he has no interest in joining us, we've moved onto another option.

 

The price, when taken in isolation, is high, but when you think that Leicester paid £7m+ for Leonardo Ulloa, who looked a bit "meh" even in the Championship, Fulham paid £11m for an unfit Ross McCormack and Forest £5m for Assombolonga who hasn't scored a goal above League One in his career, in order to get PL experience it's going to cost north of £10m. Long only joined Hull in January for £7.5m, so from their perspective he's tied to a long contract and they don't really need to sell, which pushes the price up.

 

I've absolutely no problem with us paying a bit over the odds to get the right player for the system Koeman wants to play.

 

On the subject of Fraizer Campbell, he's very injury-prone. In his entire career (signed a pro contract at Man United in 2007), he has only started 68 Premier League games, scoring 13 goals.

[angelman]

Kenwyne Jones has nearly 200, surely we are better going for him.

 

You are joking aren't you? It is sometimes hard to spot sarcasm on the forum,

[Lighthouse]

Which strikers are available for £12m, are much better than Long and wll come to us?

 

Well the papers are talking about Stoke chasing Yarmolenko for £12m, who I regard to be a far better player than Long. Would he come here? I don't know, I'm not a Ukrainian football agent.

 

That's just one name off the top of my head from my limited knowledge of football outside this country. Saints apparently have an extensive scouting network around Europe, so I would hope they are aware of a fair few players I've never heard of.

[Give it to Ron]

see?

I have said he is a decent signing. just pointing out his scoring stats

which is quite important in discussing a new striker

 

Yeah always have been crap at multi tasking thats why I edited it!!

Strikers are not always about scoring goals its what else they add to the team..why did so many managers put faith in Emile Heskey?

Having watched us on Saturday it was obvious to me we needed someone to support Pelle get in advance of him, run channels someone with a bit of movement. I have nicked Nicks stats here - Rickie got 13 league goals last season, take away the free kicks and the penalties and he wasnt in double figures - football is a team game I think Long is a good option until we can hopefully get jayrod back until he goes in January.

[Baird of the land]

Not going to pull any trees out but was certainly more impressive than Long last season in a woeful Cardiff side. Enjoyed a full season, without injury.

 

Remind me how many times £800K goes into £12m?

 

 

Yeah an average player for 800k may make sense, 12m for one does not imo.

[stevegrant]

Well the papers are talking about Stoke chasing Yarmolenko for £12m, who I regard to be a far better player than Long. Would he come here? I don't know, I'm not a Ukrainian football agent.

 

That's just one name off the top of my head from my limited knowledge of football outside this country. Saints apparently have an extensive scouting network around Europe, so I would hope they are aware of a fair few players I've never heard of.

Yarmolenko isn't a striker.

[Lighthouse]

You are joking aren't you? It is sometimes hard to spot sarcasm on the forum,

 

Yes. I was trying to point out the flaw in saying X is better than Y because he has played more Premier League games. I don't care if Long has played 1000 games, it still wouldn't make this transfer good value for money.

[Jonnyboy]

Yep you have nailed it. Cortese's recklessness with the cash has meant there are Saints fans out there with totally unrealistic expectations.

 

Lol, Cortese would never have spent 12mill on Long.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

It's clear that Koeman has identified the "type" of forward he wants to sign, someone with a burst of pace, busy, a pain in the arse for defenders. I assume there aren't any strikers of that type available or deemed suitable from the Eredivisie, the market that Koeman knows best, so he's looked domestically instead. The scouting system and analysts have presumably given him a list of players who have the attributes he is looking for, which is why we've been linked with Javier Hernandez for ages, and with it becoming clear that he has no interest in joining us, we've moved onto another option.

 

The price, when taken in isolation, is high, but when you think that Leicester paid £7m+ for Leonardo Ulloa, who looked a bit "meh" even in the Championship, Fulham paid £11m for an unfit Ross McCormack and Forest £5m for Assombolonga who hasn't scored a goal above League One in his career, in order to get PL experience it's going to cost north of £10m. Long only joined Hull in January for £7.5m, so from their perspective he's tied to a long contract and they don't really need to sell, which pushes the price up.

 

I've absolutely no problem with us paying a bit over the odds to get the right player for the system Koeman wants to play.

 

On the subject of Fraizer Campbell, he's very injury-prone. In his entire career (signed a pro contract at Man United in 2007), he has only started 68 Premier League games, scoring 13 goals.

 

People complaining that we are paying nearly 5m on top of his January price and the prices of players in general aren't taking into account the fact that we have a lot of money and clubs know this, and the new TV rights deal, which has put 25% on everyone's price this summer.

[S-Clarke]

Well the papers are talking about Stoke chasing Yarmolenko for £12m, who I regard to be a far better player than Long. Would he come here? I don't know, I'm not a Ukrainian football agent.

 

That's just one name off the top of my head from my limited knowledge of football outside this country. Saints apparently have an extensive scouting network around Europe, so I would hope they are aware of a fair few players I've never heard of.

 

He's a winger, not a striker.

[angelman]

Yes. I was trying to point out the flaw in saying X is better than Y because he has played more Premier League games. I don't care if Long has played 1000 games, it still wouldn't make this transfer good value for money.

 

Ok. Just had to ask!

 

But it is interesting how polarising this signing has been. I am more than happy with it. Also, I seem to be the only person who has mentioned HOME GROWN as we are quite low on them. Anyone else agree that this was a factor? And yes, I know Hernandez wasn't HG.

[scorchio21]

Underwhelming transfer on the face of it, but he has shown glimpses of brilliance. I recall the West Brom v Villa game last year when he looked absolutely outstanding in the first 15 minutes when he scored two goals. And I've seen him pop up in other games where he has suddenly seemed like a world-beater. But consistency is always the thing, it's useless looking great a couple of times a season.

 

And the £12m fee I just don't get. Just a few months after Hull paid £7m, and I don't recall him doing much for Hull. Maybe I missed something.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Oh and still annoyed we didn't get Bojan!

 

[stevegrant]

I'd have said Campbell for 800k is a great signing. We had 1 back up striker last year who clearly wasn't ready.

 

Campbell would have been 10 times better. Long will also be 10 times better as back up, but the difference in price is insane.

 

As I said before though, the main thing that annoys me is that we didn't buy Long for the 6-7m in January when we really needed a striker and he was available.

 

I don't mind him, I think in the right team perhaps he could score more. This might be his last chance, 27, he's moved around a bit, had a few prem seasons, short spell at Hull. If he's ever going to prove himself at a 12-15 goal striker it's now so let's hope he can.

 

It's the overall set of signings that disappoint. All are fine, a few good, but the players we've lost were great, not good. I assumed we'd get another couple of great signings. Maybe it's not too late, it's just the comments of 1-2 more and then Long and Gardos seemingly the only extra signings that worries me.

 

If we added say, Vlaar and Belhanda or Sinclair to that set then I'd say we'd done a good job over the window and had a nicely balanced squad.

You make entirely contradictory points. First you bemoan that we've not made "great" signings, and then say that if we signed Vlaar (who hasn't stood out in a woeful Villa team in the last 2 years), and either Belhanda or Sinclair (who is basically a former footballer) we'd have done a good job.

[Sour Mash]

Lol, Cortese would never have spent 12mill on Long.

No, how much did he spend on Osvaldo?

[S-Clarke]

In essence, the frustration and 'meh' feeling surrounding this deal is regarding the fee. If you remove the fee and suggest we've picked him up on a free transfer, then I think 90% of us would think that's a fantastic free signing. As in terms of a player, he will add quality and attributes which we are currently missing.

 

Just ignore the fee, in this day and age of football the fee's are kind of irrelevant in terms of judging a players capability.

[angelman]

Lol, Cortese would never have spent 12mill on Long.

 

Agree. He would far rather spend £15m on some narcissistic Italian with self-aggrandisement problems.

[Saint Garrett]

I just hope we sign another wide player. Going into the season with Isgrove as first choice is worrying.

[Saint IQ]

Not going to pull any trees out but was certainly more impressive than Long last season in a woeful Cardiff side. Enjoyed a full season, without injury.

 

Remind me how many times £800K goes into £12m?

 

 

What a hilarious sentence

 

Apart from scoring the odd tap in/1 wonder goal. Fraizer campbell is far too lightweight a for the prem and rarely got a touch in the games I saw him for Cardiff last year,hence why he has transfered down to the championship before.

 

Long over Campbell any day, not talking about the price but comparing the abilities of the two players.

Edited 13 August, 2014 by Saint IQ

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Underwhelming transfer on the face of it, but he has shown glimpses of brilliance. I recall the West Brom v Villa game last year when he looked absolutely outstanding in the first 15 minutes when he scored two goals. And I've seen him pop up in other games where he has suddenly seemed like a world-beater. But consistency is always the thing, it's useless looking great a couple of times a season.

 

And the £12m fee I just don't get. Just a few months after Hull paid £7m, and I don't recall him doing much for Hull. Maybe I missed something.

 

You have missed 2 things. New TV deal which has increased the amount that players are sold for, and the fact we have lots of money and other teams know this. That's why.

[Lighthouse]

Yarmolenko isn't a striker.

 

I would compare him to J Rod if anyone. He's not an old fashioned #9 but he's got skill, a bit of pace and has averaged 1 in 3 across his Kiev career and for Ukraine. I know who I'd rather spend £12m on personally.

[Convict Colony]

I'd also add that I seem to remember quite a lot of shock when WBA sold him to Hull and he was apparently on Spurs radar in Jan as well.

 

http://www.caughtoffside.com/2014/01/05/tottenham-weigh-up-shock-cut-price-swoop-for-west-brom-striker-shane-long/

[stevegrant]

Fair enough, and Campbell is injury prone, but at 800k surely still worth a punt in a squad short of strikers.

Not if you're going to be paying him £40k a week to lay on the treatment table. That would be £2m per year for the duration of his contract.

[Baird of the land]

In essence, the frustration and 'meh' feeling surrounding this deal is regarding the fee. If you remove the fee and suggest we've picked him up on a free transfer, then I think 90% of us would think that's a fantastic free signing. As in terms of a player, he will add quality and attributes which we are currently missing.

 

Just ignore the fee, in this day and age of football the fee's are kind of irrelevant in terms of judging a players capability.

 

Can't ignore the fee. We've flogged our stars and then squandered that money on dross like Long.

Yeah if he was a free or 800k signing people wouldn't be up in arms.

[Saint IQ]

Lol, Cortese would never have spent 12mill on Long.

 

But he spent more than that on Osvaldo. I would wager that Long will be far more successful here than that C**t

[S-Clarke]

Can't ignore the fee. We've flogged our stars and then squandered that money on dross like Long.

Yeah if he was a free or 800k signing people wouldn't be up in arms.

 

Flogged our stars for excessive fee's, you'd say. So you can't expect us not to receive the same treatment.

 

And he's not dross, costing £12m doesn't mean he's dross. If he's not a dross signing at 800k, then he's not a dross signing at 12m. He's a good player who will add to this team. Fact.

[stevegrant]

Can't ignore the fee. We've flogged our stars and then squandered that money on dross like Long.

We've got value out of the signings we've made so far, spending a few million more than Football Manager players' valuation of ONE player is hardly the end of the ****ing world.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

What a hilarious sentence

 

Apart from scoring the odd tap in/1 wonder goal. Fraizer campbell is far too lightweight a for the prem and rarely got a touch in the games I saw him for Cardiff last year,hence why he has tranfered down to the championship before.

 

Long over Campbell any day, not talking about the price but the comparing the abilities of the two players.

 

He has laughable opinions. Clueless. Yet again being embarrassed on another thread with his (lack of) football knowledge.

[Don Logan]

I agree. I really do despair some times at the attitudes of some people on here. Come on guys, what on earth were you expecting? For myself, I think he's a very useful addition to the squad and if he chips in with his usual 8 goals a season will turn out to be good value.

 

This - Agreed, it may be that with decent service he can equal Ricky's 2013/2014 tally. Some people spend too long on here.

[Saint IQ]

Underwhelming transfer on the face of it, but he has shown glimpses of brilliance. I recall the West Brom v Villa game last year when he looked absolutely outstanding in the first 15 minutes when he scored two goals. And I've seen him pop up in other games where he has suddenly seemed like a world-beater. But consistency is always the thing, it's useless looking great a couple of times a season.

 

And the £12m fee I just don't get. Just a few months after Hull paid £7m, and I don't recall him doing much for Hull. Maybe I missed something.

 

Worked hard and created space for Jelevic to finally start scoring goals again

[S-Clarke]

And it's a good point on Osvaldo, we spent all bloody summer chasing a player who clearly never wanted to come here - it was obvious from all the media snippets we could see. Up to £15m squandered on a player who scored less goals than Shane Long did last season, and that was for 2 clubs.

 

Osvaldo was a name, and I think that's half the issue. Some fans just want us to sign names, they may not be any good, but his name is popular and pretty.

[Donatello]

In essence, the frustration and 'meh' feeling surrounding this deal is regarding the fee. If you remove the fee and suggest we've picked him up on a free transfer, then I think 90% of us would think that's a fantastic free signing. As in terms of a player, he will add quality and attributes which we are currently missing.

 

Just ignore the fee, in this day and age of football the fee's are kind of irrelevant in terms of judging a players capability.

 

 

There are a few who would *genuinely* prefer Wickham

[S-Clarke]

There are a few who would *genuinely* prefer Wickham

 

I believe those people are on day-release from Tatchbury Mount.

[Patrick Bateman]

It's clear that Koeman has identified the "type" of forward he wants to sign, someone with a burst of pace, busy, a pain in the arse for defenders. I assume there aren't any strikers of that type available or deemed suitable from the Eredivisie, the market that Koeman knows best, so he's looked domestically instead. The scouting system and analysts have presumably given him a list of players who have the attributes he is looking for, which is why we've been linked with Javier Hernandez for ages, and with it becoming clear that he has no interest in joining us, we've moved onto another option.

 

The price, when taken in isolation, is high, but when you think that Leicester paid £7m+ for Leonardo Ulloa, who looked a bit "meh" even in the Championship, Fulham paid £11m for an unfit Ross McCormack and Forest £5m for Assombolonga who hasn't scored a goal above League One in his career, in order to get PL experience it's going to cost north of £10m. Long only joined Hull in January for £7.5m, so from their perspective he's tied to a long contract and they don't really need to sell, which pushes the price up.

 

I've absolutely no problem with us paying a bit over the odds to get the right player for the system Koeman wants to play.

 

On the subject of Fraizer Campbell, he's very injury-prone. In his entire career (signed a pro contract at Man United in 2007), he has only started 68 Premier League games, scoring 13 goals.

 

Perfect summary Steve!

 

Let's judge Koeman in a year, two years even, if we don't score many and Long hasn't contributed, then fine. But the team obviously know who and what sort of player they want and you know what, tactically this could really work.

 

If Jay gets back sooner than expected (before Christmas), then that forward 3 would terrify most defences as it has everything.

[pimpin4rizeal]

If Shane Long was coming from Serie A, with a fancy foreign name like Shanz Longes, then after watching some youtube videos I'm sure people would be excited. It's so spot on what was said above, players we've never heard of are world beaters - we need to sign him etc, but solid signings like this are dross? We should know all about him, he's ripped us apart a few times!!

 

As I've said, only issue is the fee. But do not dismiss him

as a player, he's a decent addition and will improve us in

an area where we were weak. Mid-table is where we are

now, so this is what it is.

 

The big differance for me is osvaldo ramirez etc were exciting signings for simular money,the potential was there for them to come in and be something special,ok neither has worked out yet but with the fees came a lot of excitement.

Long on the other hand we know his level and its low end premiership level, hes not going to set the league alight and at the age of 27 hes not likely to improve much either.

Bit of a meh signing really.

[Saint IQ]

Fair enough, and Campbell is injury prone, but at 800k surely still worth a punt in a squad short of strikers.

 

My main worry is about where the hell this price inflation ends. Champ teams pay 11m for average strikers, but if they get promotion its vindicated, and more do it. Promoted teams see these deals and any prem experience bumps the price up even more.

 

I mean how much for Rodriguez now? Say he comes back, looks as good, shows he's a 15-20 goal premier league striker. £25m?

 

It's all very well getting good fees for players and we have done, but we're part of a wider picture that'll make it harder to sign players for reasonable fees too.

 

All the more reason to spend most heavily on the academy and give talented youngsters a chance.

 

Yep 25m sounds about right.

[Baird of the land]

Flogged our stars for excessive fee's, you'd say. So you can't expect us not to receive the same treatment.

 

And he's not dross, costing £12m doesn't mean he's dross. If he's not a dross signing at 800k, then he's not a dross signing at 12m. He's a good player who will add to this team. Fact.

 

Hardly excessive fees if Long's now going for this much over his value.

He's a very average player who will add to the team because we are very thin on the ground up front. Altidore would add to the team but he's dross and i wouldn't want us spending 12m on him.

[S-Clarke]

The big differance for me is osvaldo ramirez etc were exciting signings for simular money,the potential was there for them to come in and be something special,ok neither has worked out yet but with the fees came a lot of excitement.

Long on the other hand we know his level and its low end premiership level, hes not going to set the league alight and at the age of 27 hes not likely to improve much either.

Bit of a meh signing really.

 

Long will achieve more in his first 6 months than Osvaldo did here.

 

Osvaldo was the meh signing if anything.

[grezz]

We've got value out of the signings we've made so far, spending a few million more than Football Manager players' valuation of ONE player is hardly the end of the ****ing world.

 

Except this time next year we'll need that extra 4 or 5 million we've paid over the odds. We'll be Spurs.

 

Long is a good player but £12M is not value and we are Saints. We're not blessed with self-generating income until the end of time.

[Gambol2K9]

Why do the board hate us so much...?

[Sour Mash]

Can't ignore the fee. We've flogged our stars and then squandered that money on dross like Long.

Yeah if he was a free or 800k signing people wouldn't be up in arms.

Which of our other new signings to consider "dross"?

[Donatello]

I believe those people are on day-release from Tatchbury Mount.

 

[S-Clarke]

Hardly excessive fees if Long's now going for this much over his value.

He's a very average player who will add to the team because we are very thin on the ground up front. Altidore would add to the team but he's dross and i wouldn't want us spending 12m on him.

 

I wouldn't say he's a very average player.

 

I think some people will be very surprised, he'll become a fans favourite I reckon.

[hypochondriac]

We've got value out of the signings we've made so far, spending a few million more than Football Manager players' valuation of ONE player is hardly the end of the ****ing world.

 

How much resale value is there on the likes of pelle and long?