Katarina Doesn't Want To Invest Anymore In The Club - Krueger

[Fowllyd]

Its a non-story. When Markus first took over one of the first things Cortese said was that part of the plan was to make the club self sustaining.

 

Yes, I remember that. It seems to have been conveniently forgotten by any number on here though.

[OldNick]

It is perfectly possible to both. Its been explained on here and other threads - we are trying to be self-sustaining, so that no further shareholder funds are needed (as well as complying with FFP). That does not mean we have to stop spending the transfer receipts we are generating, because these are not the only funds coming into the club.

Great, but patently at this moment in time only one thing has been done. The transfer in money has not been spent as per Kruegers words.If you believe that another 60 + million is going to be spent by us in the next 3 weeks I accept that, but I dont and personally feel the wool has been pulled over your eyes and you are being done a disservice.

If in March Krueger had said, ok we are going to sell 5 of the best players for 90+m but we are going to replace with 30m and some loans you would like the rest of the fanbase be up in arms and perhaps think twice about paying higher S/T prices for this season.

The playoff final is billed as the most valuable domestic game in the world, to win it you get untold fortunes, we were already in that club.

[Whitey Grandad]

Sod putting money in, I'd be happy if she just spent what the club generates.

 

Why the rush? Is the money burning a hole in your pocket already?

[Halo Stickman]

I don't see the problem with this statement. Look, we're a 'provincial' club who was batting above its weight for 27 years in the top flight. Finishing 2nd once in an era where football was so different it was unreal; I mean, signing Keegan is like us signing Messi, Ronaldo or Bale now, right? It's mental!

 

We have never and will never have the fanbase of Man Utd, Liverpool or Arsenal. They are the 3 defacto top clubs by power of revenue alone. Chelsea and Man City have joined them by ridiculous injections of cash and in the case of Man City, have fallen foul of the FFP rules.

 

Even when we had the Dell with "unlimited" standing, 30,000 people was our max. Sure, for a big game we could pull 45/50000, but in these times of austerity, that would be once or twice a season. 30/35000 is about right for us and we're about the right size for a mid-table club who occasionally gets some amazing players (last season) that could propel us higher. Many would argue Pochettino should have done better with these players ......

 

But, why should we expect her to pump in her own cash? She has a self-sustaining, mid-table Prem side who make fluke the odd appearance in Europe and that keeps producing top class talent.

 

The trouble with a lot of Saints fans is Sky; the Sky generation.

 

Excellent post.

[Alanh]

Great, but patently at this moment in time only one thing has been done. The transfer in money has not been spent as per Kruegers words.If you believe that another 60 + million is going to be spent by us in the next 3 weeks I accept that, but I dont and personally feel the wool has been pulled over your eyes and you are being done a disservice.

If in March Krueger had said, ok we are going to sell 5 of the best players for 90+m but we are going to replace with 30m and some loans you would like the rest of the fanbase be up in arms and perhaps think twice about paying higher S/T prices for this season.

The playoff final is billed as the most valuable domestic game in the world, to win it you get untold fortunes, we were already in that club.

 

Kruger didn't put a timescale on when the receipts of the transfers would be spent when he gave that interview. It could quite easily be that we spend it over the next three windows, adding to a squad that doesn't get shorn of its talent like has happened this window. He would not be lying in NY way if this scenario played out.

[SW5 SAINT]

Love the way the term "invest" is used in general, and on here ....it actually means "spend".

 

This evening I "invested" in 5 pints of beer and a hamburger. I nearly considered "investing" in super-sizing my McDonalds meal. But I think that would have been an "investment" too far.

 

That term "invest" is used by football fans every where, when the mean spunk it up a wall. I lost count of the times I heard hearing pompey fans talking about investment.

[once_bitterne]

Why the rush? Is the money burning a hole in your pocket already?

 

Nah, you're right. Money in Kat's purse will keep us up.

[Goatboy]

Nah, you're right. Money in Kat's purse will keep us up.

 

It's her purse.

[Big Bad Bob]

Great, but patently at this moment in time only one thing has been done. The transfer in money has not been spent as per Kruegers words.If you believe that another 60 + million is going to be spent by us in the next 3 weeks I accept that, but I dont and personally feel the wool has been pulled over your eyes and you are being done a disservice.

If in March Krueger had said, ok we are going to sell 5 of the best players for 90+m but we are going to replace with 30m and some loans you would like the rest of the fanbase be up in arms and perhaps think twice about paying higher S/T prices for this season.

The playoff final is billed as the most valuable domestic game in the world, to win it you get untold fortunes, we were already in that club.

 

You seem to think the money is going to go solely on transfer and agent fees, what about players' wages? Where is that going to come from?

 

We have more loose change down the back of the sofa now so we can afford to pay higher wages for the incoming cohort (within FFP restrictions of course).

[Charlie Wayman]

I hate the fact he constantly calls us "Saints". It's like he's trying to suck up to us and pretending to be "one of us". His accent his adds to the cheese. That's my only gripe with him though. Unlike a lot on here I quite like him. If he keeps us a stable PL club, I'll be very happy.

 

Give it a rest you whinging cynical misery, we are The Saints and Ralph is doing his best to be one of us. If you don't like it sod off and support some other team.

[Charlie Wayman]

I don't see the problem with this statement. Look, we're a 'provincial' club who was batting above its weight for 27 years in the top flight. Finishing 2nd once in an era where football was so different it was unreal; I mean, signing Keegan is like us signing Messi, Ronaldo or Bale now, right? It's mental!

 

We have never and will never have the fanbase of Man Utd, Liverpool or Arsenal. They are the 3 defacto top clubs by power of revenue alone. Chelsea and Man City have joined them by ridiculous injections of cash and in the case of Man City, have fallen foul of the FFP rules.

 

Superb post

 

Even when we had the Dell with "unlimited" standing, 30,000 people was our max. Sure, for a big game we could pull 45/50000, but in these times of austerity, that would be once or twice a season. 30/35000 is about right for us and we're about the right size for a mid-table club who occasionally gets some amazing players (last season) that could propel us higher. Many would argue Pochettino should have done better with these players ......

 

But, why should we expect her to pump in her own cash? She has a self-sustaining, mid-table Prem side who make fluke the odd appearance in Europe and that keeps producing top class talent.

 

The trouble with a lot of Saints fans is Sky; the Sky generation.

 

Superb post, fully agree with you.

[Bucks Saint]

Great, but patently at this moment in time only one thing has been done. The transfer in money has not been spent as per Kruegers words.If you believe that another 60 + million is going to be spent by us in the next 3 weeks I accept that, but I dont and personally feel the wool has been pulled over your eyes and you are being done a disservice.

If in March Krueger had said, ok we are going to sell 5 of the best players for 90+m but we are going to replace with 30m and some loans you would like the rest of the fanbase be up in arms and perhaps think twice about paying higher S/T prices for this season.

The playoff final is billed as the most valuable domestic game in the world, to win it you get untold fortunes, we were already in that club.

 

Ok so you now accept that there is nothing at all "wrong" with a dual aim of KL not investing more and the club wanting to spend all of the transfer receipts, but you have moved on to questioning when / if they will spend the receipts.

[Batman]

You seem to think the money is going to go solely on transfer and agent fees, what about players' wages? Where is that going to come from?

 

We have more loose change down the back of the sofa now so we can afford to pay higher wages for the incoming cohort (within FFP restrictions of course).

 

the 80-odd millions yearly from TV money and other income streams?

[OldNick]

Kruger didn't put a timescale on when the receipts of the transfers would be spent when he gave that interview. It could quite easily be that we spend it over the next three windows, adding to a squad that doesn't get shorn of its talent like has happened this window. He would not be lying in NY way if this scenario played out.

No he didnt put a timescale, he was very clever in his wording. All part of the act, a clever operator, it is impressive.

I admire how some fans are so calm in accepting how this has played out, lets wait and see how calm they are if things start to go pear shaped after the first 6 or so games.

[SaintRichmond]

Sod putting money in, I'd be happy if she just spent what the club generates.

 

 

That's hers as well. She is the owner

 

She's only just about got back all the outlay in Markus's 5 year plan don't forget

[mulletsaint]

The mongboard

 

Of which you're a fully paid up member. A vital cog in fact.

[Goatboy]

That's hers as well. She is the owner

 

She's only just about got back all the outlay in Markus's 5 year plan don't forget

 

Source?

[farawaysaint]

Source?

 

2013 accounts showed the total loan from the owner was around 50mill of which half was converted to equity, 15 million was due to be repaid in 2014 so the balance on the loan would have been about 10million. 90mill in short more than repays the amount owed and even the total amount put in.

[ant]

When Krueger stated that every penny generated from player sales would be re-invested, he didn't give a timescale.

 

Obviously we need to bring personnel in, but do we really need to spend all of it this Summer (if we even can)? Last year Spurs spunked all of the Bale money in one go and really didn't get a great return. We're clearly going to be quoted silly transfer fees at present too. It wouldn't hurt to keep some funds aside for January and beyond.

 

That seems more in line with a sustainable approach to me.

[OldNick]

Ok so you now accept that there is nothing at all "wrong" with a dual aim of KL not investing more and the club wanting to spend all of the transfer receipts, but you have moved on to questioning when / if they will spend the receipts.

What are you on about? I have never questioned KL's right of not wanting to put more in or take her money out. It is easy to pull the wool over eyes of fans like yourself who have fallen for all that has come from RK LS in the last 6 months.

Please let me know what RK has said in his interviews that has come to pass? Oh yes, Morgan will not be sold. Something that was quickly hashed up as the club was in meltdown. Please do not tell me that the transfer was not pulled at the last minute and was likely to go ahead until the stuff hit the fan.

[Doctoroncall]

That term "invest" is used by football fans every where, when the mean spunk it up a wall. I lost count of the times I heard hearing pompey fans talking about investment.

 

I blame the rise in assessment management courses you can get on the web, all these wannabe investment bankers!

 

 

The quote I like from the article is this:

 

“There are still weeks to go in the transfer window and a lot might happen,” Krueger says. “Our goal is to finish this transfer window where you can say, ‘Actually they’ve got a plus now. They are a stronger team than they were before’.

 

 

[OldNick]

When Krueger stated that every penny generated from player sales would be re-invested, he didn't give a timescale.

 

Obviously we need to bring personnel in, but do we really need to spend all of it this Summer (if we even can)? Last year Spurs spunked all of the Bale money in one go and really didn't get a great return. We're clearly going to be quoted silly transfer fees at present too. It wouldn't hurt to keep some funds aside for January and beyond.

 

That seems more in line with a sustainable approach to me.

yep, but the way it was played out in many peoples minds and on the day that we were going to spend big to replace. Like the Chancellors Budget, you get the words but the details come out a few days later ans see what you are really getting.

[St_Tel49]

Great, but patently at this moment in time only one thing has been done. The transfer in money has not been spent as per Kruegers words.If you believe that another 60 + million is going to be spent by us in the next 3 weeks I accept that, but I dont and personally feel the wool has been pulled over your eyes and you are being done a disservice.

If in March Krueger had said, ok we are going to sell 5 of the best players for 90+m but we are going to replace with 30m and some loans you would like the rest of the fanbase be up in arms and perhaps think twice about paying higher S/T prices for this season.

The playoff final is billed as the most valuable domestic game in the world, to win it you get untold fortunes, we were already in that club.

I expect, and actually hope, that a good part of the money is retained after the transfer window. I would like to see it spent on what is worth having than in a desperate acquisition of players who might do a job but won't improve us. Just my opinion.

[Whitey Grandad]

Nah, you're right. Money in Kat's purse will keep us up.

 

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

 

What do you think got us where we are? You clearly haven't got the faintest clue about corporate finances let alone a top-flight football club but if that's what you want to believe then go ahead in your blissful ignorance.

[Whitey Grandad]

I expect, and actually hope, that a good part of the money is retained after the transfer window. I would like to see it spent on what is worth having than in a desperate acquisition of players who might do a job but won't improve us. Just my opinion.

 

And a very sensible opinion it is too.

[Bucks Saint]

What are you on about? I have never questioned KL's right of not wanting to put more in or take her money out. It is easy to pull the wool over eyes of fans like yourself who have fallen for all that has come from RK LS in the last 6 months.

Please let me know what RK has said in his interviews that has come to pass? Oh yes, Morgan will not be sold. Something that was quickly hashed up as the club was in meltdown. Please do not tell me that the transfer was not pulled at the last minute and was likely to go ahead until the stuff hit the fan.

 

You changed your moan to another topic, not me. I have already quoted your post #73 once. I assume you now understand the dual aims, and hence have moved on to something else

Edited 6 August, 2014 by Bucks Saint

[Wes Tender]

I admire how some fans are so calm in accepting how this has played out, lets wait and see how calm they are if things start to go pear shaped after the first 6 or so games.

 

Yes, patience is a great virtue, isn't it? It goes hand in hand with an ability to look at the bigger picture and to be capable of remaining calm about matters that may happen in the future, but have not happened yet. People possessing these virtues tend to be the more rational, level-headed ones and their demeanour often comes from an innate understanding borne out of maturity and long experience.

 

I thought that you had been around long enough to have gained some perspective regarding the trials and tribulations affecting Saints supporters, Nick, but it seems not.

[ericb]

I don't see the problem with this statement. Look, we're a 'provincial' club who was batting above its weight for 27 years in the top flight. Finishing 2nd once in an era where football was so different it was unreal; I mean, signing Keegan is like us signing Messi, Ronaldo or Bale now, right? It's mental!

 

We have never and will never have the fanbase of Man Utd, Liverpool or Arsenal. They are the 3 defacto top clubs by power of revenue alone. Chelsea and Man City have joined them by ridiculous injections of cash and in the case of Man City, have fallen foul of the FFP rules.

 

Even when we had the Dell with "unlimited" standing, 30,000 people was our max. Sure, for a big game we could pull 45/50000, but in these times of austerity, that would be once or twice a season. 30/35000 is about right for us and we're about the right size for a mid-table club who occasionally gets some amazing players (last season) that could propel us higher. Many would argue Pochettino should have done better with these players ......

 

But, why should we expect her to pump in her own cash? She has a self-sustaining, mid-table Prem side who make fluke the odd appearance in Europe and that keeps producing top class talent.

 

The trouble with a lot of Saints fans is Sky; the Sky generation.

 

Spot on post there mate

[waggy]

Give it a rest. If you think owning a football club is a chance to make big money then you're gravely mistaken.

 

This

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Always been SAINTS without "the" as long as I remember back to the 50's

 

HTH

That'll be why we've always sung 'Oh when THE Saints...'.

Can't it be either?

[OldNick]

You changed your moan to another topic, not me. I have already quoted your post #73 once. I assume you now understand the dual aims, and hence have moved on to something else

No the dual aim has not been met IMO. We have half of it at present. We have not spent the incoming money, we have allotted it that sometime in the future money will be spent amounting to 90m an open ended promise. That is of course not taking into account any other monies coming in. You are convinced/charmed/ by the words of RK, Iam not.

[OldNick]

Yes, patience is a great virtue, isn't it? It goes hand in hand with an ability to look at the bigger picture and to be capable of remaining calm about matters that may happen in the future, but have not happened yet. People possessing these virtues tend to be the more rational, level-headed ones and their demeanour often comes from an innate understanding borne out of maturity and long experience.

 

I thought that you had been around long enough to have gained some perspective regarding the trials and tribulations affecting Saints supporters, Nick, but it seems not.

yes it seems arrogance also is a virtue given to you wondrous people Wes.

Iam shouting into the wind, but RK has done such a good job few hear, or want to hear. We are now told that the club will look better than we were before all the sales,at present (I know we have 3weeks? before the window closes) I fail to see how. In time you patient ones will be able to point and say 'Look, those loan players will give their all to the cause and weren't you silly wanting to buy quality to replace the quality that has left' and in a seasons time 'Those loans have left and gone to higher climbs, we will be able to use the funds generated to improve and move on. Oh........'

[Wes Tender]

yes it seems arrogance also is a virtue given to you wondrous people Wes.

Iam shouting into the wind, but RK has done such a good job few hear, or want to hear. We are now told that the club will look better than we were before all the sales,at present (I know we have 3weeks? before the window closes) I fail to see how. In time you patient ones will be able to point and say 'Look, those loan players will give their all to the cause and weren't you silly wanting to buy quality to replace the quality that has left' and in a seasons time 'Those loans have left and gone to higher climbs, we will be able to use the funds generated to improve and move on. Oh........'

 

So now patience, level-headedness, rationality and other good qualities aren't virtues but are seen as arrogance by those who do not have them? A rather weird viewpoint and it sounds as if you're rather proud that you don't possess them.

 

I don't see anybody particularly accepting what RK says unequivocally, but at least there are those who are prepared to accept what he says at face value, and to give him the benefit of the doubt. You obviously don't and it seems that you cannot even wait a couple of weeks to see where we are then in terms of whether players brought in have strengthened the team to a level acceptable to you and some other doubting-Thomasses. Your mind is already made up.

 

As for the longer term effects, then we will have to wait and see how that pans out too, but from the depths of the third division, we have had much the same posters decrying the sacking of Pardew, asking who the nobody was that replaced him, then there was the wailing and gnashing of teeth when Adkins was replaced by the Argentinian nobody and now that he is gone, all is doom and gloom once more.

 

Things are far worse than they have ever been before, of course, because not only have we lost our manager, but also Cortese who masterminded our climb from the third division, and the cream of our players are also gone.

 

How can we possibly survive? Our owner is asset-stripping us before selling us, our chairman is a liar and we are bringing in poorer quality players than we lost. Woe is us.

 

But despite all this catastrophe in the minds of some of our less robust fans, most fans (the arrogant ones) are prepared thankfully to wait and see what transpires before jumping to idiotic conclusions based on hearsay and conjecture.

[OldNick]

So now patience, level-headedness, rationality and other good qualities aren't virtues but are seen as arrogance by those who do not have them? A rather weird viewpoint and it sounds as if you're rather proud that you don't possess them.

 

I don't see anybody particularly accepting what RK says unequivocally, but at least there are those who are prepared to accept what he says at face value, and to give him the benefit of the doubt. You obviously don't and it seems that you cannot even wait a couple of weeks to see where we are then in terms of whether players brought in have strengthened the team to a level acceptable to you and some other doubting-Thomasses. Your mind is already made up.

 

As for the longer term effects, then we will have to wait and see how that pans out too, but from the depths of the third division, we have had much the same posters decrying the sacking of Pardew, asking who the nobody was that replaced him, then there was the wailing and gnashing of teeth when Adkins was replaced by the Argentinian nobody and now that he is gone, all is doom and gloom once more.

 

Things are far worse than they have ever been before, of course, because not only have we lost our manager, but also Cortese who masterminded our climb from the third division, and the cream of our players are also gone.

 

How can we possibly survive? Our owner is asset-stripping us before selling us, our chairman is a liar and we are bringing in poorer quality players than we lost. Woe is us.

 

But despite all this catastrophe in the minds of some of our less robust fans, most fans (the arrogant ones) are prepared thankfully to wait and see what transpires before jumping to idiotic conclusions based on hearsay and conjecture.

Wes the arrogance is the belief that those who are deemed patient have the monopoly on such virtues.

As for some of our past problems I have been on the right side of that argument as it panned out. If Iam wrong on this then I will be a winner as our club is going to come out well.

To strip the playing side and replace with loanees and players who have no experience of the rigors of the PL is really a risk. Yes a couple of the youth team may step in, but seeing a side based on an English core was quite pleasing and we were the envy of many. Now we are just the same as the rest,full of foreign players who may or may not cut it.

[Saint George]

I was particularly impressed by his declaration that no player would be sold without input from the new Manager and then Lambert leaving two days later when we had no Manager. That was a great start to the summer.

 

Not to mention the fact it turns out that Koeman had in fact been told that Lallana and Shaw were definitely being sold and had no input in those decisions either.....lies, lies and more lies.

[CB Saint]

Is anyone else getting tired of this relentless squinnying about "lies". So what was promised at one point in time didn't pan out that way. So what. Things change, sh1t happens.

 

You are beginning to sound like a kid who didn't get everything on his Christmas list.

 

Get over it / yourself.

[Whitey Grandad]

Wes the arrogance is the belief that those who are deemed patient have the monopoly on such virtues.

As for some of our past problems I have been on the right side of that argument as it panned out. If Iam wrong on this then I will be a winner as our club is going to come out well.

To strip the playing side and replace with loanees and players who have no experience of the rigors of the PL is really a risk. Yes a couple of the youth team may step in, but seeing a side based on an English core was quite pleasing and we were the envy of many. Now we are just the same as the rest,full of foreign players who may or may not cut it.

 

What PL experience did Wanyama and Lovren have before last season?

[OldNick]

What PL experience did Wanyama and Lovren have before last season?

None of course but I suppose it could be said that we already had the majority of our quality players for them to fit in with. We will see how it goes very soon. We face a tough test in the last friendly and then the games come thick and fast in the PL. Your faith will be tested then. it is crucial that we hit the ground running after Anfield, as there are potentially some vital games that could make a difference in the final weeks of the season

[Whitey Grandad]

None of course but I suppose it could be said that we already had the majority of our quality players for them to fit in with. We will see how it goes very soon. We face a tough test in the last friendly and then the games come thick and fast in the PL. Your faith will be tested then. it is crucial that we hit the ground running after Anfield, as there are potentially some vital games that could make a difference in the final weeks of the season

 

I'd give it a bit longer than a few games before I'd start getting concerned, not that I ever get too bothered about things like that, but I don't think the Anfield game is going to matter much if we lose. If we do get something out of the game then I suppose it will be an early boost to confidence, to people on here if nobody else, but I'm sure that most impartial observers will not read too much into the opening games, unless someone gets a right tonking of course.

[buctootim]

None of course but I suppose it could be said that we already had the majority of our quality players for them to fit in with. We will see how it goes very soon. We face a tough test in the last friendly and then the games come thick and fast in the PL. Your faith will be tested then. it is crucial that we hit the ground running after Anfield, as there are potentially some vital games that could make a difference in the final weeks of the season

 

Yes we know, there is nothing you are posting is news to anybody. Did anybody want to lose five key players / prospects? No. Given that they wanted to go and at least two had release clauses realistically was there any other option? no. Blaming people at the club for the realities of modern football is both unfair and tedious when its expressed so often and in so many ways.

Edited 6 August, 2014 by buctootim

[Wes Tender]

To strip the playing side and replace with loanees and players who have no experience of the rigors of the PL is really a risk. Yes a couple of the youth team may step in, but seeing a side based on an English core was quite pleasing and we were the envy of many. Now we are just the same as the rest,full of foreign players who may or may not cut it.

 

We will still have a fairly healthy British core, especially with the arrival of Bertrand and probably Forster. So we lose three and replace them with two, plus possibly other British players. As for loans, well some work out and some don't. If they fail, then at least we have not splashed the cash on them. If they succeed, we can hope to buy them. As for the "now we are like the rest of them, full of foreign players who may or may not cut it", presumably you mean the likes of Man United, Citeh, Chelski, Arsenal, Liverpool, etc?

 

Our academy and the English players it produces is still the envy of of many, arguably since the sale of Shaw and Chambers, maybe even more so than before. It hasn't suddenly ground to a halt and stopped producing players of that quality and if the policy is to integrate them into our team when they are ready, then we will restore the core of English players again at some stage.

[OldNick]

We will still have a fairly healthy British core, especially with the arrival of Bertrand and probably Forster. So we lose three and replace them with two, plus possibly other British players. As for loans, well some work out and some don't. If they fail, then at least we have not splashed the cash on them. If they succeed, we can hope to buy them. As for the "now we are like the rest of them, full of foreign players who may or may not cut it", presumably you mean the likes of Man United, Citeh, Chelski, Arsenal, Liverpool, etc?

 

Our academy and the English players it produces is still the envy of of many, arguably since the sale of Shaw and Chambers, maybe even more so than before. It hasn't suddenly ground to a halt and stopped producing players of that quality and if the policy is to integrate them into our team when they are ready, then we will restore the core of English players again at some stage.

yep, lets hope the acadamy can get a stream of young players through who can hack it. No reflection on the past when we tired it as the lads then were under extreme pressure with the fans and club being in the doldrums of unrest and takeovers. it pushed some decent young players into the frame a bit too early. As you say if they come in and do well,we can still have that fresh English base to thrive on

[OldNick]

Yes we know, there is nothing you are posting is news to anybody. Did anybody want to lose five key players / prospects? No. Given that they wanted to go and at least two had release clauses realistically was there any other option? no. Blaming people at the club for the realities of modern football is both unfair and tedious when its expressed so often and in so many ways.

yes we are tired of hearing why they went as well, and how the club failed to stop them. Who had the release clauses?

[SaintRobbie]

Cortese did more harm to our club than a lot of people realise and the ship had to be righted. Although mistakes have been made this summer (getting players in sooner and not holding onto Chambers) I still trust the current board and ownership in their desire to do the right thing.

 

Duncan - I don't think anyone doubts their motivation to do the right thing. But, there are plenty of potential Board members and CEOs out there who may have done a better job in doing the right thing. Cortese wasn't a nice bloke, but he too wanted to do the right thing, indeed he wanted to do even more. I find it hard though to forgive people for making mistakes at this level. Our Boardroom is running a top end sports club, this is no place for amateurs and trainees, the stakes are too high.

[Bucks Saint]

No the dual aim has not been met IMO. We have half of it at present. We have not spent the incoming money, we have allotted it that sometime in the future money will be spent amounting to 90m an open ended promise. That is of course not taking into account any other monies coming in. You are convinced/charmed/ by the words of RK, Iam not.

 

Where did i say i was convinced by anything? I was just explaining something you thought was wrong, or did not understand, that we can move to being self-sustaining while still spending all the transfer income. You have now moved on to moaning about how much of it we have spent so far.

[OldNick]

Where did i say i was convinced by anything? I was just explaining something you thought was wrong, or did not understand, that we can move to being self-sustaining while still spending all the transfer income. You have now moved on to moaning about how much of it we have spent so far.

That's it, you explain, I moan lol. Yep get 90m in every season of transfer money and you become self sustaining, simples

[Frank's cousin]

There really is a load of mis informed speculative and obviously agenda ridden ****** written on here.... And sadly so much of now seems to be urban myth...

 

1. Nc and ML both wanted the club to be self sustaining.... But ML recognised that to get to that level, we needed to be prepared to 'invest' a certain amount - It was assumed that a certain amount of cash was ear marked for our progress back up the leagues.

 

2. We do know that the 12 mil it cost to take the club out of admin was leveraged - it became a loan, and that after MLs sad death, additional sums of some 26 mil over the 3 years was also 'loaned' - we assume this is the 'provision' Marcus left, as KL seemed happy to convert this to equity when we were promoted. We do NOT know whether it was MLs intention to convert that 38mil to equity or whether it was KLs idea.

 

3. No one expected or thinks investment equates to spun king money or gifting cash apart from a few simpletons. Marcus knew a bargain when he saw one... So did his daughter. 38 mil 'invested' for a club worth maybe 100mil on return to the prem.

 

4. Further spending. This is where it gets tricky and where agenda seems to be getting the better folk. Yes monetise we're loaned from both BVI and KL. But substantial amounts were also paid back and the accounts show an operating loss of 7mil at end of 2012/13 - which financial experts in media suggested was a good year.... And that was based on a more modest Tv revenue of that season.

 

5. 2013/14 yes we spent 30 mil on players and committed to 30mil plus on staplwwood, BUT, both of these would have been planed across a number of seasons. Hofstetters naive or planned 'difficult' statement failed to acknowledge this... Maybe just to try and soften the blow for sakes which were not necessary... If being cynical. The seasons turnover also increased to 110mil + and yet our wage bill will still be estimated around the 50 mil mark... Again, still no drama from a cash perspective....

 

6. The club may be owned by KL, but she can't just run off with 60 mil to pay back her initial 38mil equity and the additional funding she provided... First up such profits generated by club will be liable to corp tax... Second IF she were to decide to take a directors dividend, her personal tax liability will mean she loses 50% .... In addition she still owns. A club worth 100 mil or so....so are those who are so supportive and happy to let KL just take back her investment, really suggesting they are happy with her getting it back twice? After all if she takes back 38mil that was converted to equity, she would get this again when selling the club....any additional loans I can understand, but not a 38 mil dividend.... Had Lowe et al fine that can you imagine the outcry?

 

7. If she does want her cash back now, why not take it over say 3 years, allowing the club to maintain a stronger competitive edge?

 

8. FFP means she can't underwrite any losses... But could have paid for staple wood as infrastructure is exempt... Given the success of the academy and the value of its graduates, I can see exactly why such an investment request could have been made by Cortese to KL (speculation) because it would have a) a true investment given the value it adds to KLs asset, and b) it would mean a greater cash pot for transfers and wages as the club looked to build - not by dunking 100s of mil as some like to suggest, but by adding a few to enhance a squad built on academy products which was always the plan.

 

What is so pathetic on here, is that there seems to be this need to have heroes and villains. Hate figures to blame, when in reality we just have different approaches. I am not angry with KL for the way things are going, just surprised that she has taken the strategy she has when IMHO, we could have increased the value of her investment further had that squad...and been self sustainable, by paying off director loans over 2-4 years, as with transfer fees.

 

9. I guess the big question that remains is: were our sakes driven by the board as part of a financial strategy, or was it a result of the players not being convinced that there would be continued progress? Either way, it's not a great reflection on the board that promised greater openness and transparency.

[egg]

Franks cousin. You're facts are well off.

 

You say this

 

"There really is a load of mis informed speculative and obviously agenda ridden ****** written on here.... And sadly so much of now seems to be urban myth... "

 

I'm aware of actual numbers. Posting made up numbers doesn't help.

[Redslo]

Love the way the term "invest" is used in general, and on here ....it actually means "spend".

 

This evening I "invested" in 5 pints of beer and a hamburger. I nearly considered "investing" in super-sizing my McDonalds meal. But I think that would have been an "investment" too far.

 

Please feel no obligation to keep us advised as to the return on your most recent investment.

Edited 6 August, 2014 by Redslo

[Redslo]

Yes we know, there is nothing you are posting is news to anybody. Did anybody want to lose five key players / prospects? No. Given that they wanted to go and at least two had release clauses realistically was there any other option? no. Blaming people at the club for the realities of modern football is both unfair and tedious when its expressed so often and in so many ways.

 

Do you have a source for the existence of the two release clauses. I am not disagreeing with you, I would just like to check the information out.