Bertrand signs for a season long loan

[Redslo]

Very good performance today. Wish we'd just buy him now. It would allow us to take another loanee from Chelski!

 

I was going to post that the rules didn't work that way, but then I decided to look them up and they do. So GOOD POINT.

 

Can we actually kick-in the purchase clause early ??

 

That would depend on the terms of the contract, but the rules would clearly allow it.

 

Here are the BPL transfer rules from last season's handbook:

 

V.5. A “Temporary Transfer” shall mean the transfer of a contract registration effected in accordance with Rules V.6 to V.10.

V.6. Subject to the conditions set out below, a Temporary Transfer shall be permitted:

V.6.1. between Clubs; and

V.6.2. between a Club and a club in membership of the Football League, the Football Conference, the Northern Premier League, the Isthmian League and the Southern League.

V.7. The conditions referred to in Rule V.6 are:

V.7.1. a Temporary Transfer to a Club may not take place in the Transfer Window in which the Transferor Club acquired the Player’s registration;

V.7.2. during the period of the Temporary Transfer of his contract registration a Player shall not play against the Transferor Club;

V.7.3. if during the period of a Temporary Transfer the Player’s registration is transferred permanently from the Transferor Club to the Transferee Club, the two Clubs may

agree in writing (to be copied to the League) that the Player shall not play against the Transferor Club for the remainder of the Season;

V.7.4. subject to any conditions imposed by the Board in the exercise of its discretion under Rule V.4.2, the minimum period of a Temporary Transfer shall be the period between 2 consecutive Transfer Windows and the period of a Temporary Transfer shall not extend beyond 30th June next after it was entered into;

V.7.5. the maximum number of Temporary Transfers to any one Club registrable in the same Season shall be 4 and in no circumstances shall more than 1 be from the same Transferor Club at any one time save there shall be excluded from these numbers any Temporary Transfer of the kind described in V.7.6.1 or V.7.6.2;

V.7.6. not more than 2 Temporary Transfers shall be registered by a Club at the same time except that there shall be excluded from that number:

V.7.6.1. any Temporary Transfer which become permanent; and

V.7.6.2. the Temporary Transfer of a goalkeeper which in its absolute discretion the Board may allow in circumstances it considers to be exceptional;

V.7.7. a Club may transfer the registration of no more than one of its goalkeepers by way of Temporary Transfer to another Club each Season, subject to any further Temporary Transfer of one of its goalkeepers pursuant to Rule V.7.6.2;

V.7.8. any other conditions agreed between the Transferor Club and the Transferee Club or, in the exercise of its discretion, imposed by the Board.

Edited 17 August, 2014 by Redslo

[Redslo]

Very good performance today. Wish we'd just buy him now. It would allow us to take another loanee from Chelski!

 

I was going to post that the rules didn't work that way, but then I decided to look them up and they do. So GOOD POINT.

 

Can we actually kick-in the purchase clause early ??

 

That would depend on the terms of the contract, but the rules would clearly allow it.

 

Here are the BPL transfer rules from last season's handbook:

 

V.5. A “Temporary Transfer” shall mean the transfer of a contract registration effected in accordance with Rules V.6 to V.10.

V.6. Subject to the conditions set out below, a Temporary Transfer shall be permitted:

V.6.1. between Clubs; and

V.6.2. between a Club and a club in membership of the Football League, the Football Conference, the Northern Premier League, the Isthmian League and the Southern League.

V.7. The conditions referred to in Rule V.6 are:

V.7.1. a Temporary Transfer to a Club may not take place in the Transfer Window in which the Transferor Club acquired the Player’s registration;

V.7.2. during the period of the Temporary Transfer of his contract registration a Player shall not play against the Transferor Club;

V.7.3. if during the period of a Temporary Transfer the Player’s registration is transferred permanently from the Transferor Club to the Transferee Club, the two Clubs may

agree in writing (to be copied to the League) that the Player shall not play against the Transferor Club for the remainder of the Season;

V.7.4. subject to any conditions imposed by the Board in the exercise of its discretion under Rule V.4.2, the minimum period of a Temporary Transfer shall be the period between 2 consecutive Transfer Windows and the period of a Temporary Transfer shall not extend beyond 30th June next after it was entered into;

V.7.5. the maximum number of Temporary Transfers to any one Club registrable in the same Season shall be 4 and in no circumstances shall more than 1 be from the same Transferor Club at any one time save there shall be excluded from these numbers any Temporary Transfer of the kind described in V.7.6.1 or V.7.6.2;

V.7.6. not more than 2 Temporary Transfers shall be registered by a Club at the same time except that there shall be excluded from that number:

V.7.6.1. any Temporary Transfer which become permanent; and

V.7.6.2. the Temporary Transfer of a goalkeeper which in its absolute discretion the Board may allow in circumstances it considers to be exceptional;

V.7.7. a Club may transfer the registration of no more than one of its goalkeepers by way of Temporary Transfer to another Club each Season, subject to any further Temporary Transfer of one of its goalkeepers pursuant to Rule V.7.6.2;

V.7.8. any other conditions agreed between the Transferor Club and the Transferee Club or, in the exercise of its discretion, imposed by the Board.

Edited 17 August, 2014 by Redslo

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Why is there an assumption that it's with an option to buy. That's not publicised anywhere apart from the likes of Simon Peach 'understanding'.

 

This, the club have said no such thing

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Why is there an assumption that it's with an option to buy. That's not publicised anywhere apart from the likes of Simon Peach 'understanding'.

 

This, the club have said no such thing

[niceandfriendly]

A solid enough player for a Championship side of a team in the Prem threatened by relegation, so ideal for new boards ambitions.

 

once again the board have made me look a right tw at. (or perhaps I did that myself)

 

Carry on how he played yesterday and he'll be a great signing!

[niceandfriendly]

A solid enough player for a Championship side of a team in the Prem threatened by relegation, so ideal for new boards ambitions.

 

once again the board have made me look a right tw at. (or perhaps I did that myself)

 

Carry on how he played yesterday and he'll be a great signing!

[Toon Saint]

Option to buy for £10m was reported in the Guardian.

 

http:// http://gu.com/p/4vccj

[Toon Saint]

Option to buy for £10m was reported in the Guardian.

 

http:// http://gu.com/p/4vccj

[The9]

Impressed me and was much better than I was expecting, though he has a history of starting well and then tailing off. Hopefully we'll be able to coach him to be able to maintain that early enthusiasm and effort, and take the lazy side-on diving in late-hit challenges out of his game before he gets two yellows for it.

 

I will point out that for their first goal he was a long way up the pitch, causing Yoshida to have to come over to the left side to mark, causing Fonte to have to come across to a more central position, creating the space between Fonte and Clyne for the pass to Sterling, but I was more bothered that the replay showed he jogged back after the through ball.

 

However, overall he did pretty well.

[The9]

Impressed me and was much better than I was expecting, though he has a history of starting well and then tailing off. Hopefully we'll be able to coach him to be able to maintain that early enthusiasm and effort, and take the lazy side-on diving in late-hit challenges out of his game before he gets two yellows for it.

 

I will point out that for their first goal he was a long way up the pitch, causing Yoshida to have to come over to the left side to mark, causing Fonte to have to come across to a more central position, creating the space between Fonte and Clyne for the pass to Sterling, but I was more bothered that the replay showed he jogged back after the through ball.

 

However, overall he did pretty well.

[pangy]

Carries on like yesterday and hopefully we make it permanent in Jan (if we can do that)

[pangy]

Carries on like yesterday and hopefully we make it permanent in Jan (if we can do that)

[Saint_clark]

So much better than runandnotdoanythingthenendupoutofposition Shaw.

 

Unbelievable.

[Saint_clark]

So much better than runandnotdoanythingthenendupoutofposition Shaw.

 

Unbelievable.

[doddisalegend]

More impressed by him every time I see him quality player and really well taken goal today.

[sambosa75]

What a signing this lad has been. Seems to buy in to the spirit of the club and doesn't come across as an ego given he is a European Cup winner. Has it been confirmed we have an option to buy (and agreed fee) at the end of the loan?

[DuncanRG]

What a signing this lad has been. Seems to buy in to the spirit of the club and doesn't come across as an ego given he is a European Cup winner. Has it been confirmed we have an option to buy (and agreed fee) at the end of the loan?

 

Yeah, £10m

[Unbelievable Jeff]

FFS

 

How very, very crap. Did the board really have to twist the knife.

 

Waste of time.

 

Underwhelmed.

 

well, utterly underwhelming

 

we would not have thought he would have made the bench a few months ago

and only a loan signing

 

guess Rojo is definitely not happening

 

not at all, I reckon

 

Crap.

 

 

FFS!

 

70m in the bank and the ******s get ryan bertrand on LOAN! it wasnt happening with cortese but it sure as hek is now!

 

Will it please the plastics?

 

Just from the first page...

[hypochondriac]

Those comments have to be put in the context of what was happening at the time (team seemingly being destroyed.) Bertrand has been a solid signing and kudos to the board for that. Nothing wrong with having an initial reaction and then revising that once he takes to the field as a Saints player.

[Graffito]

Those comments have to be put in the context of what was happening at the time (team seemingly being destroyed.) Bertrand has been a solid signing and kudos to the board for that. Nothing wrong with having an initial reaction and then revising that once he takes to the field as a Saints player.

 

Nothing to do with context. It was about the quality of the player being signed. Some clearly didn't rate him. They were wrong.

[hypochondriac]

Nothing to do with context. It was about the quality of the player being signed. Some clearly didn't rate him. They were wrong.

 

You can't tell me that comments would not be more tempered had this loan signing not happened in the middle of selling half the team and with seemingly little action towards replacing those lost. Comments would also have been more positive at the end if the window once it was clear that we had got some good replacements in so yes context is clearly important.

[Heisenberg]

Just from the first page...

 

Compare that list to those that wrote of Pelle after 2 games.... Think youll find a few of the same names.

[shurlock]

As I said elsewhere at the time (not quoted surprise, surprise), looked timid whenever I saw him play and needed a good run of game time which would probably benefit him immensely.

 

Still a loan in the context of selling/replacing Shaw, a huge talent, remains a downgrade, leaving more questions than answers.

[alpine_saint]

As I said elsewhere at the time (not quoted surprise, surprise), looked timid whenever I saw him play and needed a good run of game time which would probably benefit him immensely.

 

Still a loan in the context of selling/replacing Shaw, a huge talent, remains a downgrade, leaving more questions than answers.

 

WTF ???

[shurlock]

WTF ???

 

What?

[Heisenberg]

As I said elsewhere at the time (not quoted surprise, surprise), looked timid whenever I saw him play and needed a good run of game time which would probably benefit him immensely.

 

Still a loan in the context of selling/replacing Shaw, a huge talent, remains a downgrade, leaving more questions than answers.

 

 

Havent you answered the reason for the loan? I think we all thought the same, potentially he could be good, but why take a £10m gamble if the option of a try before you buy was on offer. Plus it gives us another year to look at Matt Targett.

 

I think the loan was ideal and a win/win. We have the option to buy afterall

[Unbelievable Jeff]

As I said elsewhere at the time (not quoted surprise, surprise), looked timid whenever I saw him play and needed a good run of game time which would probably benefit him immensely.

 

Still a loan in the context of selling/replacing Shaw, a huge talent, remains a downgrade, leaving more questions than answers.

 

 

Why don't you quote it? I wasn't going to trawl through a whole thread to look to see if you had grown up, changed your mind and stopped being so reactionary.

 

Yet again (and this was said a lot in the Summer), wrong again ****lock.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Havent you answered the reason for the loan? I think we all thought the same, potentially he could be good, but why take a £10m gamble if the option of a try before you buy was on offer. Plus it gives us another year to look at Matt Targett.

 

I think the loan was ideal and a win/win. We have the option to buy afterall

 

Exactly this. I don't know why people can't just admit they were wrong. Can't believe how proud and up themselves some people are...

[hypochondriac]

Exactly this. I don't know why people can't just admit they were wrong. Can't believe how proud and up themselves some people are...

 

At the time I believed it be an uninspiring move and along with others in the context of the extremely worrying period we were going through expressed my frustration about this. Things have turned out better than even those in charge could have dreamed of so far and that's a brilliant thing. Bertrand has been very solid and has set about proving initial assessments based on an uninspired villa showing wrong. Credit to him and let's hope it continues.

Edited 1 October, 2014 by hypochondriac

[shurlock]

Havent you answered the reason for the loan? I think we all thought the same, potentially he could be good, but why take a £10m gamble if the option of a try before you buy was on offer. Plus it gives us another year to look at Matt Targett.

 

I think the loan was ideal and a win/win. We have the option to buy afterall

 

No problems with loaning Bertrand -given the question marks around him and the lack of real prem experience- though would I have preferred to buy some of the other options we were linked with at the time? Probably yes.

 

That's now in the past. Bertrand has got off to a good start; but it is still the case that even with the option to buy, LB remains a position of uncertainty.

Edited 1 October, 2014 by shurlock

[hypochondriac]

No problems with loaning Bertrand -given the question marks around him and the lack of prem experience- though would I have preferred to buy some of the other options we were linked with at the time? Probably yes.

 

That's now in the past. Bertrand has got off to a good start; but it remains the case that even with the option to buy, LB is a position of uncertainty.

 

I think that's a load of rubbish tbh. Even if you could argue that it is uncertain should we not buy Bertrand in the summer, it is only in the summer that it would become uncertain and not now or the rest of this season.

[shurlock]

I think that's a load of rubbish tbh. Even if you could argue that it is uncertain should we not buy Bertrand in the summer, it is only in the summer that it would become uncertain and not now or the rest of this season.

 

Glad you're thinking long-term

[hypochondriac]

Glad you're thinking long-term

 

But in reality you have absolutely no idea if we plan to buy Bertrand in the summer. It could be argued that we didn't want to commit to a long term contract because we believe it will hinder the progress of targett and thus it is you not thinking long-term. We may have already agreed to buy Bertrand for all you know. Either way I'm happy not to worry about it until next summer when we have the entire summer to sort it.

[Super_Uwe]

You can't tell me that comments would not be more tempered had this loan signing not happened in the middle of selling half the team and with seemingly little action towards replacing those lost. Comments would also have been more positive at the end if the window once it was clear that we had got some good replacements in so yes context is clearly important.

 

I have to disagree. A significant chunk of people on here clearly just didn't rate him, presumably because of his very unsettled history as a pro (loads of loan moves, failure to really establish himself at Chelsea etc).

 

Whether we had signed up a load of other players before would IMO have been irrelevant, these particular posters would still have been underwhelmed.

 

Am really pleased for him that it has worked out so far. I said when he signed that the deal we'd agreed was a really good one for all parties, and so far that has proven to be the case. If he carries on the way he is, then an England recall won't be far round the corner.

[hypochondriac]

I have to disagree. A significant chunk of people on here clearly just didn't rate him, presumably because of his very unsettled history as a pro (loads of loan moves, failure to really establish himself at Chelsea etc).

 

Whether we had signed up a load of other players before would IMO have been irrelevant, these particular posters would still have been underwhelmed.

 

Am really pleased for him that it has worked out so far. I said when he signed that the deal we'd agreed was a really good one for all parties, and so far that has proven to be the case. If he carries on the way he is, then an England recall won't be far round the corner.

 

I think some would have been underwhelmed yes. I just think that in general, the comments would clearly have been more positive. So before dragging up comments from that period, the context in which they were written is clearly relevant.

[notnowcato]

At the time I believed it be an uninspiring move and along with others in the context of the extremely worrying period we were going through expressed my frustration about this. Things have turned out better than even those in charge could have dreamed of so far and that's a brilliant thing. Bertrand has been very solid and has set about proving initial assessments based on an uninspired villa showing wrong. Credit to him and let's hope it continues.

 

That is your (and some others) context, not mine... my context, I'm sure it's on this site somewhere, is that we sold a left back for £27m and that we don't need a £27m left back. I wasn't that inspired by Bertrand but I thought it sensible given that we are hopeful of Targett coming through - effectively the deal was right for us.

 

Even though my bed stayed dry over the summer I do miss the buzz of that rollercoaster

[Dig Dig]

Super cool, non-proud and up themselves dudes like Jeff knew that we would be better without the former players and manager and that a questionable loan signing would end up being very good business in the end.

[notnowcato]

But in reality you have absolutely no idea if we plan to buy Bertrand in the summer. It could be argued that we didn't want to commit to a long term contract because we believe it will hinder the progress of targett and thus it is you not thinking long-term. We may have already agreed to buy Bertrand for all you know. Either way I'm happy not to worry about it until next summer when we have the entire summer to sort it.

 

OR we buy him for £10m and sell him the next day for £15m.

[hypochondriac]

That is your (and some others) context, not mine... my context, I'm sure it's on this site somewhere, is that we sold a left back for £27m and that we don't need a £27m left back. I wasn't that inspired by Bertrand but I thought it sensible given that we are hopeful of Targett coming through - effectively the deal was right for us.

 

Even though my bed stayed dry over the summer I do miss the buzz of that rollercoaster

 

If you weren't concerned by what was going on over the summer then good for you. I think it was clear that the vast majority were worried to varying degrees.

[notnowcato]

Super cool, non-proud and up themselves dudes like Jeff knew that we would be better without the former players and manager and that a questionable loan signing would end up being very good business in the end.

 

I think some are less likely to pish themselves when the boat rocks a bit.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Super cool, non-proud and up themselves dudes like Jeff knew that we would be better without the former players and manager and that a questionable loan signing would end up being very good business in the end.

 

I was right, wasn't I? Somewhere along the line you can't just dismiss it as luck and actually admit I knew what I was talking about in the Summer.

[notnowcato]

If you weren't concerned by what was going on over the summer then good for you. I think it was clear that the vast majority were worried to varying degrees.

 

Of course it was an unsettling period but it's possibly to isolate individual changes and plan around them, the Bertrand / Targett cover for LB was good enough for me.

[hypochondriac]

Of course it was an unsettling period but it's possibly to isolate individual changes and plan around them, the Bertrand / Targett cover for LB was good enough for me.

 

Of course it is. All I'm saying is it is easily understandable why some posters may have been dismissive of Bertrand due to the annoyance they felt towards the club as a whole.

[shurlock]

I was right, wasn't I? Somewhere along the line you can't just dismiss it as luck and actually admit I knew what I was talking about in the Summer.

 

You just need Shane Long to come good for us now and Gaston to be our X-factor

[Unbelievable Jeff]

You just need Shane Long to come good for us now and Gaston to be our X-factor

 

Gaston was a weird one I admit and turns out I was wrong about him and his potential usage this season.

 

Don't really remember saying much about Long in general.

[norwaysaint]

I suppose it's natural that when people post something that turns out to be right, they bring it up and resurrect threads to show how great they are, but when they get it utterly wrong, like hypo and co here, they get a bit stoppy if it's brought back to them. I think it's equally relevant and if anything helps people not jump in with uninformed opinions so quickly next time.

 

we're all wrong often enough, I said I didn't think we wouldn't sell any key players in the summer...

[TopGun]

I suppose it's natural that when people post something that turns out to be right, they bring it up and resurrect threads to show how great they are, but when they get it utterly wrong, like hypo and co here, they get a bit stoppy if it's brought back to them. I think it's equally relevant and if anything helps people not jump in with uninformed opinions so quickly next time.

 

we're all wrong often enough, I said I didn't think we wouldn't sell any key players in the summer...

 

Indeed we are but there's wrong and wrong! I love reading the wrong ones from the hysterical bedwetters though!!

[notnowcato]

I was right, wasn't I? Somewhere along the line you can't just dismiss it as luck and actually admit I knew what I was talking about in the Summer.

 

To be fair you are right as of the end of September... 6 games... 1 of which was against a supposed top 4/5 side - which we lost...

 

Even in the good times it's worth keeping some perspective.

[SNSUN]

I too was unusually downbeat about this signing, despite me touting him in previous HCDAJFU threads, but it was more to do with it being a loan than a full transfer, especially with the money we'd accrued over the summer. That, plus there were hardly raving reviews from Villa fans, who from memory considered Bertrand bang average.

 

We're seeing the best of Bertrand, and the deal now appears to be working for us. He's experienced, decent going forward as well as defending, and perhaps most importantly gets on with Corky! (Must keep Cork!) He's also won something most of our players never will. The loan is good because either Targett is ready next summer and we can let Bertrand go back to Chelsea, or sign him up for a decent fee and have a very strong left back situation.

 

In all this turned out to be a very clever transfer by the management.

[Wrensup]

I was right, wasn't I? Somewhere along the line you can't just dismiss it as luck and actually admit I knew what I was talking about in the Summer.