Unbelievable Jeff Posted 29 July, 2014 Author Share Posted 29 July, 2014 (edited) You don't think that anyone discussed and instructed the club spokesman and the media team on how to handle questions about Chambers absence? It's ok to give it up after making a stupid statement or being proved wrong. You've had enough experience over this summer Jeff. You're having an absolute mare. Have to agree to disagree there Dik Dik. Even if we included that one where are the reems of lies we've had this season. Last time you challenged and argued me you didn't bother answering as you were proven wrong. :lol: Edited 29 July, 2014 by Unbelievable Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 Have to agree to disagree there Dik Dik. Even if we included that one where are the reems of lies we've had this season. Last time you challenged and argued me you didn't bother answering as you were proven wrong. :lol: If it makes you feel better mate, you can certainly have that one although I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. You can have this one as well. It's clear from this thread that you have won hands down :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon Saint Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 (edited) Even if we included that one where are the reems of lies we've had this season. Towie fan? Jeff, you do seem to be backing yourself into some strange corners this summer. You asked for proof of lies and once people started providing them you backtrack into a semantical argument over whether it is 'reams' of lies, and that you were only ever explicitly referencing the statements uttered by the board. Bizarrely, the person who is employed to speak on their behalf isn't deemed important. Edited 29 July, 2014 by Toon Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 30 July, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 July, 2014 Towie fan? Jeff, you do seem to be backing yourself into some strange corners this summer. You asked for proof of lies and once people started providing them you backtrack into a semantical argument over whether it is 'reams' of lies, and that you were only ever explicitly referencing the statements uttered by the board. Bizarrely, the person who is employed to speak on their behalf isn't deemed important. Read my post above. Even if we included the lie about Chambers being ill we have the following: 1. Sibley lying about whereabouts of Chambers 2. Lambert being sold before a Pocketing replacement was in place. So what you're saying is this is the extent of the lies the board has told, and due to these 2 lies the board should not and cannot be trusted? Be nice to see you have your own opinion, as all it looks like at the moment is that you follow me around using other people's arguments to try and trop me up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 You can't believe a word that comes from the Board - not because they are deliberately lying, but because they are naïve and incompetent for the level of responsibility they have. Thing is at this stage I'd rather find out that what has happened was the plan all along as at least then it would reflect a level of competency on the football side and show that they have the ability to implement a plan. However as Krueger mentioned yesterday that things didn't go to plan it just means that they were ill-prepared for what was to happen despite any old media hack and supporter with their head screwed on seeing it happen a mile away. That said, the Board have achieved good fees for players - but that was always the easy part for me. Now it is the hard part - sign good players (a challenge in itself) in the circumstance where everyone knows we have a lot of money and also to attract the right players when there is no reason beyond money to come here in the first place (as we've sold all our decent players). Good luck with that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 Read my post above. Even if we included the lie about Chambers being ill we have the following: 1. Sibley lying about whereabouts of Chambers 2. Lambert being sold before a Pocketing replacement was in place. So what you're saying is this is the extent of the lies the board has told, and due to these 2 lies the board should not and cannot be trusted? Be nice to see you have your own opinion, as all it looks like at the moment is that you follow me around using other people's arguments to try and trop me up... Maybe it's not a 'Lie' exactly, but even a sycophant of the board such as yourself must see the idiocy and ignorance they portray when two directors say the following: Reed: chambers had to sold because he said he did not see a future at Saints Krueger: Morgan and Jrod will not be sold. So why s just say no one will be sold and keep Chambers instead of such Bo lox from Reed? Because clearly all Morgan has to do is state he sees no future here and he all be allowed to go ? No Krueger statement has come AFTER they saw the she it'd storm they created by cashing in on Chambers...and it not makes Krueger, Ralph and the board look like clowns, but Kruegers statement will be worth feck all if someoneactually offers what the club expects to get for MS. So who are you and what possible reason can you still have for being so supportive of aboard that has proven only one thing consistently; that they can't even get their story straight, let alone know how to inspire players and create a culture of belief in the club and it's progressive future. And don't come out with the same only BS that Cortese promised what he could not deliver... It's urban myth territory. Wayback when Marcus took over he and Cortese stated their ambition.: to have a successful sustainable club with at least HALF the first team from the academy and one that could one day challenge for Europe. That did not need '100s of millions of KLs money' to be spent - it needed drive, determination, graft, a degree of loyalty from players who believed in what we were doing and some luck with transfers that we got more 8mil Lovrens, that 13 mil Oswaldos.... Our liabilities in January of 27mil in outstanding Transfers (spread over a number of years) and the investment in staple wood of 38mil, again payable over a number years, would be well within our budget given turnover increased to 110mil plus last season.... The wage bill is a non story as even if we had added 20 mil to it from the previous season, it would still be one of the lowest in the Premier League... So again why so in love with this board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 30 July, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 July, 2014 You can't believe a word that comes from the Board - not because they are deliberately lying, but because they are naïve and incompetent for the level of responsibility they have. Thing is at this stage I'd rather find out that what has happened was the plan all along as at least then it would reflect a level of competency on the football side and show that they have the ability to implement a plan. However as Krueger mentioned yesterday that things didn't go to plan it just means that they were ill-prepared for what was to happen despite any old media hack and supporter with their head screwed on seeing it happen a mile away. That said, the Board have achieved good fees for players - but that was always the easy part for me. Now it is the hard part - sign good players (a challenge in itself) in the circumstance where everyone knows we have a lot of money and also to attract the right players when there is no reason beyond money to come here in the first place (as we've sold all our decent players). Good luck with that... And that's a fair point, shame other posters can't form their own opinion and actually debate the point. I agree they have been incredibly naive and it hasn't helped in the trust of the board. They were unprepared for what happens, but then what happened is a completely unprecedented situation, as we keep on being told, so we have no idea how other boards of similar sized clubs would react. Look at what happened to Atletico Madrid this Summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 30 July, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 July, 2014 (edited) Maybe it's not a 'Lie' exactly, but even a sycophant of the board such as yourself must see the idiocy and ignorance they portray when two directors say the following: Reed: chambers had to sold because he said he did not see a future at Saints Krueger: Morgan and Jrod will not be sold. So why s just say no one will be sold and keep Chambers instead of such Bo lox from Reed? Because clearly all Morgan has to do is state he sees no future here and he all be allowed to go ? No Krueger statement has come AFTER they saw the she it'd storm they created by cashing in on Chambers...and it not makes Krueger, Ralph and the board look like clowns, but Kruegers statement will be worth feck all if someoneactually offers what the club expects to get for MS. So who are you and what possible reason can you still have for being so supportive of aboard that has proven only one thing consistently; that they can't even get their story straight, let alone know how to inspire players and create a culture of belief in the club and it's progressive future. And don't come out with the same only BS that Cortese promised what he could not deliver... It's urban myth territory. Wayback when Marcus took over he and Cortese stated their ambition.: to have a successful sustainable club with at least HALF the first team from the academy and one that could one day challenge for Europe. That did not need '100s of millions of KLs money' to be spent - it needed drive, determination, graft, a degree of loyalty from players who believed in what we were doing and some luck with transfers that we got more 8mil Lovrens, that 13 mil Oswaldos.... Our liabilities in January of 27mil in outstanding Transfers (spread over a number of years) and the investment in staple wood of 38mil, again payable over a number years, would be well within our budget given turnover increased to 110mil plus last season.... The wage bill is a non story as even if we had added 20 mil to it from the previous season, it would still be one of the lowest in the Premier League... So again why so in love with this board? I'm certainly not in love with the board, I was very annoyed about the Chambers sale, but perhaps Koeman didn't want to keep him? He already had a better Rb and the money was massive. The point is, and this is the point, we just don't know what is going on. We have Crab Lungs writing essays on what is happening with the board from a potential ITK position, and then Steve Grant countering that. I also don't know what they're meant to do. They sell people, they get criticised. They come out and say people aren't for sale, and they get criticised. We are dealing with a situation where nearly all our good players want to leave the club. Completely unprecedented in the English leagues (smaller teams in La Liga get pillaged every year in this way). The main thing for me this Summer is to judge the board after the transfer window. If we are significantly weaker then that is the time to criticise. I also think that a lot of the fans on here don't want to give the board a chance to try and be successful, people have been gagging for stuff to go wrong so that they can criticise the board. Just look at the glee of people like Batman and Crab Lungs as the board struggles to deal with the situation. Yes, they're naive, yes they definitely should have appointed a better Chief Exec, bit I am really struggling to see what they could do to stop this situation. Edited 30 July, 2014 by Unbelievable Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 Jordan Sibley is a maverick press officer and he is outta control, people. Or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 Got to love jeffs resolve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 Maybe it's not a 'Lie' exactly, but even a sycophant of the board such as yourself must see the idiocy and ignorance they portray when two directors say the following: Reed: chambers had to sold because he said he did not see a future at Saints Krueger: Morgan and Jrod will not be sold. So why s just say no one will be sold and keep Chambers instead of such Bo lox from Reed? Because clearly all Morgan has to do is state he sees no future here and he all be allowed to go ? No Krueger statement has come AFTER they saw the she it'd storm they created by cashing in on Chambers...and it not makes Krueger, Ralph and the board look like clowns, but Kruegers statement will be worth feck all if someoneactually offers what the club expects to get for MS. So who are you and what possible reason can you still have for being so supportive of aboard that has proven only one thing consistently; that they can't even get their story straight, let alone know how to inspire players and create a culture of belief in the club and it's progressive future. And don't come out with the same only BS that Cortese promised what he could not deliver... It's urban myth territory. Wayback when Marcus took over he and Cortese stated their ambition.: to have a successful sustainable club with at least HALF the first team from the academy and one that could one day challenge for Europe. That did not need '100s of millions of KLs money' to be spent - it needed drive, determination, graft, a degree of loyalty from players who believed in what we were doing and some luck with transfers that we got more 8mil Lovrens, that 13 mil Oswaldos.... Our liabilities in January of 27mil in outstanding Transfers (spread over a number of years) and the investment in staple wood of 38mil, again payable over a number years, would be well within our budget given turnover increased to 110mil plus last season.... The wage bill is a non story as even if we had added 20 mil to it from the previous season, it would still be one of the lowest in the Premier League... So again why so in love with this board? Kruger said Rodriguez and schiniderlin won't be sold because they are part of the core players we want to keep. Chambers clearly was not. We have a clear and defined strategy. You need to stop pining and get a grip Franco!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 Got to love jeffs resolve Sang froid, more likely I agree with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 Kruger said Rodriguez and schiniderlin won't be sold because they are part of the core players we want to keep. Chambers clearly was not. We have a clear and defined strategy. You need to stop pining and get a grip Franco!! Still waiting to hear what this clear and defined strategy is tbh. Maybe we'll find out on SEPTEMBER ONE? #teamsaints #gosaints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 30 July, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 July, 2014 Got to love jeffs resolve If you're not going to debate this why don't you go back to the other thread and continue to revel in what is happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 30 July, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 July, 2014 Sang froid, more likely I agree with him. He'll have no idea what Sang Froid indicates...Google ahoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 Still waiting to hear what this clear and defined strategy is tbh. Maybe we'll find out on SEPTEMBER ONE? #teamsaints #gosaints He alluded to it in the interviews. Clearly we had earmarked some players we were prepared to sell at our price there were others, like Rodriguez and schniderlin who we would not sell and want to build the team around. It turns out this was correct as look at the way Lallana and lovren carried on, we've got rid of the bad apples on our terms. Lambert is past his best, the only way is down for him so made sense to get him off the wage bill and chambers is our second choice right back. Shaw was always going to go. We can now use the money on players committed to taking the saints forward. It's an excellent strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 He alluded to it in the interviews. Clearly we had earmarked some players we were prepared to sell at our price there were others, like Rodriguez and schniderlin who we would not sell and want to build the team around. It turns out this was correct as look at the way Lallana and lovren carried on, we've got rid of the bad apples on our terms. Lambert is past his best, the only way is down for him so made sense to get him off the wage bill and chambers is our second choice right back. Shaw was always going to go. We can now use the money on players committed to taking the saints forward. It's an excellent strategy. He sidestepped the questions on the long-term plan, and it was all very waffly. We'll find out after September One when they can speak more about the plan. Is that because they'll then work out if they're going to go the NPC first or not? I honestly don't think there is a long-term plan here, the statement has done nothing to reassure me - given Morgan's outburst. Ralf is here for one thing, to be wheeled out to talk to the masses when the gunshots start being fired. We'll probably hear from him again before September One, as we've missed out on all our targets he can say how good our young academy players are. And then everyone can lap that up as some sort of positive breakthrough as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 He sidestepped the questions on the long-term plan, and it was all very waffly. We'll find out after September One when they can speak more about the plan. Is that because they'll then work out if they're going to go the NPC first or not? I honestly don't think there is a long-term plan here, the statement has done nothing to reassure me - given Morgan's outburst. Ralf is here for one thing, to be wheeled out to talk to the masses when the gunshots start being fired. We'll probably hear from him again before September One, as we've missed out on all our targets he can say how good our young academy players are. And then everyone can lap that up as some sort of positive breakthrough as well. He mentioned Europe several times, that's clearly the aim. Okay he didn't say 'the plan is....' However it's clear the ambition and finance is now in place to push the saints on to September one and beyond. It does all make sense now, sell the players that are disposable, weed out the bad seeds like Lallana and lovren on our terms. By all accounts Lallana had turned into a right bellend and lovren showed his true colours, Les got that right, as usual. Remember it's always darkest just before dawn. I think we're on the cusp of great times and Ralph's words are smoothing as they are inspirational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 To actually have the guts to talk of Europe, after you've just sold 5 of your first team players - potentially soon to be 7, is ridiculous. It was a statement to appease the fans, we will not get near Europe in the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 To actually have the guts to talk of Europe, after you've just sold 5 of your first team players - potentially soon to be 7, is ridiculous. It was a statement to appease the fans, we will not get near Europe in the foreseeable future. Oh good! We shall be having a go at the Cups this season then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 To actually have the guts to talk of Europe, after you've just sold 5 of your first team players - potentially soon to be 7, is ridiculous. It was a statement to appease the fans, we will not get near Europe in the foreseeable future. Cortese spoke of Europe whilst in league one, that was lauded as ambition and shooting for the moon. Surely we are closet to Europe now than then? With our clear strategy to get shot of the egos and bellends and move forward with a clear horizon and players committed to the club and the new plan, why is it ridiculous to show the same ambition when we are so much closer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon Saint Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 (edited) Read my post above. Even if we included the lie about Chambers being ill we have the following: 1. Sibley lying about whereabouts of Chambers 2. Lambert being sold before a Pocketing replacement was in place. So what you're saying is this is the extent of the lies the board has told, and due to these 2 lies the board should not and cannot be trusted? Be nice to see you have your own opinion, as all it looks like at the moment is that you follow me around using other people's arguments to try and trop me up... Jeff, are you ok? You keep making threads about people over-reacting or not behaving as you would like, but get all defensive when you are actually challenged on the very points you are trying to make - even making a bit of a sad attempt to try to get me banned from here. It does seem (to borrow FC's words) that you have set yourself up as the 'sycophant of the board', and you are now floundering as you struggle to justify their actions while keeping up the pretence of your own position that you adopted early on. I did make the point about Sibley being club spokesman, and employed to communicate the views of the board, did I not? I've given you lengthy replies to some of your posts before but you've told me that you can't be bothered to read. There are 2 lies that we have identified in your thread, and placed in the context of LR being 'relaxed' about the situation with Poch, Krueger's insistence that the board would do 'all they can' to keep the youngsters at the club together, and the latest discrepancy between the board's stating that Rodriguez and Morgan are not for sale and then Morgan, clearly believing he was on the verge of a move, kicking up a ****-storm on twitter, it is fair to say that many feel that the board cannot be trusted. That lack of trust extends to their ability to make sound strategic decisions and also their ability to communicate openly, honestly, and transparently with the fans. Not all can be classified as outright lies (though some have been, and others simply distortions), but fair to say that they have created enough bad blood for them to have their motivations and integrity seriously questioned. Edited 30 July, 2014 by Toon Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallagroth Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 Cortese spoke of Europe whilst in league one, that was lauded as ambition and shooting for the moon. Surely we are closet to Europe now than then? With our clear strategy to get shot of the egos and bellends and move forward with a clear horizon and players committed to the club and the new plan, why is it ridiculous to show the same ambition when we are so much closer? True, all the teams above us clearly think that we are close to European spot as they wanted half of our players for said competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 True, all the teams above us clearly think that we are close to European spot as they wanted half of our players for said competition. Absolutely, trouble is it's the half that other clubs don't want that kept us out of a challlenge for 6th place and thus Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 30 July, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 July, 2014 Jeff, are you ok? You keep making threads about people over-reacting or not behaving as you would like, but get all defensive when you are actually challenged on the very points you are trying to make - even making a bit of a sad attempt to try to get me banned from here. It does seem (to borrow FC's words) that you have set yourself up as the 'sycophant of the board', and you are now floundering as you struggle to justify their actions while keeping up the pretence of your own position that you adopted early on. I did make the point about Sibley being club spokesman, and employed to communicate the views of the board, did I not? I've given you lengthy replies to some of your posts before but you've told me that you can't be bothered to read. There are 2 lies that we have identified in your thread, and placed in the context of LR being 'relaxed' about the situation with Poch, Krueger's insistence that the board would do 'all they can' to keep the youngsters at the club together, and the latest discrepancy between the board's stating that Rodriguez and Morgan are not for sale and then Morgan, clearly believing he was on the verge of a move, kicking up a ****-storm on twitter, it is fair to say that many feel that the board cannot be trusted. That lack of trust extends to their ability to make sound strategic decisions and also their ability to communicate openly, honestly, and transparently with the fans. Not all can be classified as outright lies (though some have been, and others simply distortions), but fair to say that they have created enough bad blood for them to have their motivations and integrity seriously questioned. Where did I try to get you banned? I asked the mods to contact you to get you stop following me around the forum? Two very different things. If you've read my other posts recently I am disappointed with the way things are happening, all I want people to do is wait and see what happens. September 1st is judgement day, and that is when I believe we are best to take stock and look at the situation as a whole. Is that not reasonable? The point I am making with the lies is that a vast majority at those moaning on this board about not trusting the board because of what's been said are of the opinion of St Marco, misinterpreting what's been said. That is my gripe with many of the posters on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 30 July, 2014 Share Posted 30 July, 2014 'Lies' is a very strong word and should be used sparingly. I haven't seen anything which was downright untruthful at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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