Player Budget - That's About It...

[Guided Missile]

I just had a text from a football agent with strong ties to Southampton FC, who told me that the player budget at Saints was out of control. He suggested that the board was hamstrung by the commitments Cortese had made to both the players and Pochettino et al, which would have ensured that any future success on the field would have swallowed up income off of it and led to an unsustainable situation going forward, given our restricted income, with regard to sponsorship and crowds. Cortese had taken his focus off of the commercial income growth. In fact it was shrinking, due to the fact he was an unpleasant guy to deal with. Sony swore never to sponsor a box again, after the way they were treated last season.

 

So, my take is that to prevent all and more of the riches earned in the Premiership disappearing via players, their contracts, bonuses and constant demands, leading to an unsustainable future, it made sense to clear the decks and adjust the player budget to a level that a club our size, with 30,000 crowds and a tiny commercial income, compared with virtually any other club in the Premiership, could afford. Cutting our cloth in an area in which the majority of the overheads are spent. The area of greedy, spoilt, ungrateful, spoilt and self-obsessed children who can kick a ball around for a living. Better to start with new contracts than have to pay for the mistakes of the past.

 

English players? Cr@p and overpriced in my opinion.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

You know what, I could actually believe this.

[pap]

You know what' date=' I could actually believe this.[/quote']

 

I want to believe!

[ratio_decidendi]

Sort of want to believe this.

[Colinjb]

There is a degree of sense behind that theory.

[alpine_saint]

I just had a text from a football agent with strong ties to Southampton FC, who told me that the player budget at Saints was out of control. He suggested that the board was hamstrung by the commitments Cortese had made to both the players and Pochettino et al, which would have ensured that any future success on the field would have swallowed up income off of it and led to an unsustainable situation going forward, given our restricted income, with regard to sponsorship and crowds. Cortese had taken his focus off of the commercial income growth. In fact it was shrinking, due to the fact he was an unpleasant guy to deal with. Sony swore never to sponsor a box again, after the way they were treated last season.

 

So, my take is that to prevent all and more of the riches earned in the Premiership disappearing via players, their contracts, bonuses and constant demands, leading to an unsustainable future, it made sense to clear the decks and adjust the player budget to a level that a club our size, with 30,000 crowds and a tiny commercial income, compared with virtually any other club in the Premiership, could afford. Cutting our cloth in an area in which the majority of the overheads are spent. The area of greedy, spoilt, ungrateful, spoilt and self-obsessed children who can kick a ball around for a living. Better to start with new contracts than have to pay for the mistakes of the past.

 

English players? Cr@p and overpriced in my opinion.

 

Sounds very plausible, John, but it looks like we are going to be short of an entire team come mid-August and there is therefore a risk of this strategy completely backfiring if it leads to relegation and a loss of the TV money.

 

Especially if the exodus has put players off signing for us and the huge fees we are getting leads to selling clubs playing hardball with us.

[jasoneuelllfanclub]

I just had a text from a football agent with strong ties to Southampton FC, who told me that the player budget at Saints was out of control. He suggested that the board was hamstrung by the commitments Cortese had made to both the players and Pochettino et al, which would have ensured that any future success on the field would have swallowed up income off of it and led to an unsustainable situation going forward, given our restricted income, with regard to sponsorship and crowds. Cortese had taken his focus off of the commercial income growth. In fact it was shrinking, due to the fact he was an unpleasant guy to deal with. Sony swore never to sponsor a box again, after the way they were treated last season.

 

So, my take is that to prevent all and more of the riches earned in the Premiership disappearing via players, their contracts, bonuses and constant demands, leading to an unsustainable future, it made sense to clear the decks and adjust the player budget to a level that a club our size, with 30,000 crowds and a tiny commercial income, compared with virtually any other club in the Premiership, could afford. Cutting our cloth in an area in which the majority of the overheads are spent. The area of greedy, spoilt, ungrateful, spoilt and self-obsessed children who can kick a ball around for a living. Better to start with new contracts than have to pay for the mistakes of the past.

 

English players? Cr@p and overpriced in my opinion.

 

I could well believe this. No doubt Lallana, Morgan, Lambert, Shaw and co had nice performance bonuses tied in to their new contracts.

[pap]

Anyone got a rough idea of what has just disappeared off the wage bill?

[Golden Balls]

Can't see it being so unbelievably bad that we'd have to sell 7 top players. 2-3 maybe even 4, but not 7.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Anyone got a rough idea of what has just disappeared off the wage bill?

 

This could be a fun game - anyone would just be guessing though. Probably worth a new thread?

[Kingsland Red]

This makes more sense - the ongoing contracts of the outgoing players being unsustainable without NC's anticipated Champions League football payments.

I would also like to believe this, apart from getting shot of 2/3 players should have been enough to cover others who could have been retained.

[Professor]

Players are only paid in accordance with their contracts. If the contracts are so generous, it hasn't prevented nearly the whole team walking out. Hearsay isn't the best base on which to make a judgement.

[Viking Warrior]

Interesting post guided

And is probably nearer the truth as to why players are leaving , I had heard NC wasn't the nicest of guys but then I have heard that les read has be facing about re sorting out player contracts etc in recent months

 

It makes sense bringing in our new manager . We are going to gave bumpy times these season but we will be okay

If NC has crippled the club then thank god he left . He could still be here if he had listened to the advice he was given by the owners . But then it's NC and he was pretty nasty character

[Heisenberg]

I want to believe!

 

Me too...

 

Problem is players have been vocal about leaving us, not the other way round.

 

Club / Reed has talked a few times about trying to keep players?

 

A release clause if/when NC left is more realistic imho

[Viking Warrior]

Guided

 

In another post there is suggestions that KL might be preparing for the club to be sold ?

Is there any truth in this from your end ?

[OldNick]

Well i dont believe it. The contracts would have been signed well before the massive TV revenue was assured. As for the box issue, if somebody had paid 30k for a box and then the next door one is sold for 16k you upset the original good customer. NC is a financial man and I suspect had a longterm plan. We are also told that the matchday income is now less important nowadays as the TV money is so vast.

[pap]

I have often wondered if Cortese might have had a couple of time bombs in place. Other reports, such as the difference in the way he reportedly treated the players (gods) to the way he treated most everyone else (scum), give this a bit of weight.

 

Reading between the lines, looks like he cultivated a cult of personality style of management, backed up with readies. If we're being honest, it wasn't even that stable a form of management while he was about. Looks to be killing us after the event.

[Smirking_Saint]

Anyone got a rough idea of what has just disappeared off the wage bill?

 

Considering reports put Morgans wages at around 10k and that Fonte is earning nowhere near the 35k offered by Cardiff then Id argue not an aweful lot.

 

I just dont know what to believe anymore

[Guided Missile]

Guided

 

In another post there is suggestions that KL might be preparing for the club to be sold ?

Is there any truth in this from your end ?

Sell the club for £150M or sell our best young players every other season for £100M. You do the maths...

[View From The Top]

Considering reports put Morgans wages at around 10k and that Fonte is earning nowhere near the 35k offered by Cardiff then Id argue not an aweful lot.

 

I just dont know what to believe anymore

 

Average salary for a BPL player is £35k per week. There is no way on gods green planet that MS is on £10k.

[S-Clarke]

It's what I've said all along, Cortese is as much to blame for this as anyone else.

 

He created a culture and an ambition which was un-feasible. It wasn't even his money to flap around, and it's no wonder KL finally took control of it all.

 

All his failed promises of CL and title challenges have left with Lallana, Lovren, Morgan, Rodriguez, Lambert, Shaw. Their commitment was based on a far-fetched pipe dream.

 

However, as a board, they've managed this situation absolutely abjectly this summer.

[Smirking_Saint]

Average salary for a BPL player is £35k per week. There is no way on gods green planet that MS is on £10k.

 

Which is exactly what I thought but the media continues to chuck around duch low salary figures for our players ?

 

A. I cant believe they are that far off the mark but

 

B. I cant believe they are paid so little

[View From The Top]

I just had a text from a football agent with strong ties to Southampton FC, who told me that the player budget at Saints was out of control. He suggested that the board was hamstrung by the commitments Cortese had made to both the players and Pochettino et al, which would have ensured that any future success on the field would have swallowed up income off of it and led to an unsustainable situation going forward, given our restricted income, with regard to sponsorship and crowds. Cortese had taken his focus off of the commercial income growth. In fact it was shrinking, due to the fact he was an unpleasant guy to deal with. Sony swore never to sponsor a box again, after the way they were treated last season.

 

So, my take is that to prevent all and more of the riches earned in the Premiership disappearing via players, their contracts, bonuses and constant demands, leading to an unsustainable future, it made sense to clear the decks and adjust the player budget to a level that a club our size, with 30,000 crowds and a tiny commercial income, compared with virtually any other club in the Premiership, could afford. Cutting our cloth in an area in which the majority of the overheads are spent. The area of greedy, spoilt, ungrateful, spoilt and self-obsessed children who can kick a ball around for a living. Better to start with new contracts than have to pay for the mistakes of the past.

 

English players? Cr@p and overpriced in my opinion.

 

Someone on here, I can't remember who, mention some time ago that it would be no accident if those players with "highest paid at the club" stamped on them were sold hence SRL, Lallana & Lovrens going. Shaw I think we all accept was going anyway. Chambers, it would appear, has been feted by Arsenal for at least the last 3 years.

 

It's what we do now, to rebuild, that shows us our true direction.

[thorpie the sinner]

Most sensible theory I have read in a while! Still happy to start again with players who want to be here

[Saint Charlie]

We had a small squad and a lot of young players playing key roles. Our wage bill must still have been a fraction of say, West Ham's.

 

Plus, it was pretty clear we had some major assets. We would have sold Shaw anyway this summer, and would have recouped 30m which would more than cover any playing costs.

 

Of course, the playing budget in the Championship will be lower.

[View From The Top]

Which is exactly what I thought but the media continues to chuck around duch low salary figures for our players ?

 

A. I cant believe they are that far off the mark but

 

B. I cant believe they are paid so little

 

2 years ago I was on holiday in France with Morgans agent (really nice bloke for a blood sucking parasite) . I can tell you now that Morgan's on way, way more than £10k.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Doesn't change the lack of communication.

 

If they'd stated 'wages are unsustainable, we need to sell players and start over on more sensible terms' I'd have been fine with it. Depressing, but I'd always rather we do things the right way and not get into debt.

That would be a great way to weaken our hand in transfer negotiations

[saint_ed]

Seems plausible, however the one floor is we didn't actually achieve ANYTHING last year. Bonuses are triggered by achievements and I simply do not believe there would be extortionate bonuses for finishing 8th (no European football, or trophies).

[david in sweden]

I just had a text from a football agent with strong ties to Southampton FC, who told me that the player budget at Saints was out of control. He suggested that the board was hamstrung by the commitments Cortese had made to both the players and Pochettino et al, which would have ensured that any future success on the field would have swallowed up income off of it and led to an unsustainable situation going forward, given our restricted income, with regard to sponsorship and crowds. Cortese had taken his focus off of the commercial income growth. In fact it was shrinking, due to the fact he was an unpleasant guy to deal with. Sony swore never to sponsor a box again, after the way they were treated last season.

 

So, my take is that to prevent all and more of the riches earned in the Premiership disappearing via players, their contracts, bonuses and constant demands, leading to an unsustainable future, it made sense to clear the decks and adjust the player budget to a level that a club our size, with 30,000 crowds and a tiny commercial income, compared with virtually any other club in the Premiership, could afford. Cutting our cloth in an area in which the majority of the overheads are spent. The area of greedy, spoilt, ungrateful, spoilt and self-obsessed children who can kick a ball around for a living. Better to start with new contracts than have to pay for the mistakes of the past.

 

English players? Cr@p and overpriced in my opinion.

 

 

sssh !....you're not supposed to say anything:suspicious:..by the time the big clubs realise .....oops ! (say no more)

[shurlock]

Income from future success going to players in the form of higher wages and bonuses - how odd

 

The idea of the situation becoming unsustainable is not an inevitability. It is contingent on future success which may or may not have happened -probably not if you believe that we've hit a ceiling. And needless to say, future success may have unlocked new, offsetting revenue streams. So it's largely speculative handwringing. Of course, should the worst have happened, sales could have been conducted at that point, probably at an even bigger profit given we're assuming a world where players had been even more successful than this season.

 

All is known that the player wage bill as a % of turnover is currently one of the lowest in the league.

 

For all those who agonise over sponsorship and empty corporate boxes, it really is a drip in the ocean compared to TV money and akin to squeezing blood from a stone without firstly success on the pitch.

 

No matter how many Apple salesmen Ralphy employs, the board will quickly learn this painful lesson if it continues on its current path and that the best way to increase the bottom line is to cut costs, not increase revenues when your product is a pile of s**t.

Edited 29 July, 2014 by shurlock

[ratio_decidendi]

Seems plausible, however the one floor is we didn't actually achieve ANYTHING last year. Bonuses are triggered by achievements and I simply do not believe there would be extortionate bonuses for finishing 8th (no European football, or trophies).

 

I think the OP was referring to future expectations.

 

So: team promised appropriate ambition and backing from the board to achieve CL as well as their own relative contract increases, yet board cannot afford this based on our commercial revenue. This means team believe they've been misled and demand to move.

[david in sweden]

 

We had a small squad and a lot of young players playing key roles. Our wage bill must still have been a fraction of say, West Ham's..........and theirs is a bankruptcy just waiting to happen.

 

Plus, it was pretty clear we had some major assets. We would have sold Shaw anyway this summer, and would have recouped 30m which would more than cover any playing costs. .more for the future.

 

Of course, the playing budget in the Championship will be lower.

......except that income doesn't increase when we play 8 games less than the Championship sides do.

[a1ex2001]

2 years ago I was on holiday in France with Morgans agent (really nice bloke for a blood sucking parasite) . I can tell you now that Morgan's on way, way more than £10k.

 

I have never met him or his agent and I would be surprised if he wasn't earning more than that in the championship! The idea we are paying a French International 10K a week is some FM2014 fantasy!

[shurlock]

Morgan was on £17K p/w the season before last FACT

[pap]

Me too...

 

Problem is players have been vocal about leaving us, not the other way round.

 

Club / Reed has talked a few times about trying to keep players?

 

A release clause if/when NC left is more realistic imho

 

The old saying, "you don't know what goes on behind closed doors".

 

Release clauses might have been an excellent way to exercise a bit of control. NC could have told the players that he had their backs, and told the board that the players would leave if he did. All speculation though, and others have already questioned the idea that big club release clauses even existed.

[Heisenberg]

Seems plausible, however the one floor is we didn't actually achieve ANYTHING last year. Bonuses are triggered by achievements and I simply do not believe there would be extortionate bonuses for finishing 8th (no European football, or trophies).

 

When Ralph was appointed he spoke alot about being sustainable "...that allows Southampton to remain healthy and sustainable in the future."

 

+ top 8 bonuses are not uncommon http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?49098-The-real-reason-that-we-sacrificed-the-cups#.U9dqQGK9KK0

 

Perhaps some players had similar deals?

[pap]

Considering reports put Morgans wages at around 10k and that Fonte is earning nowhere near the 35k offered by Cardiff then Id argue not an aweful lot.

 

I just dont know what to believe anymore

 

Ah, belief is such an outmoded concept.

 

Real men find a home in their heads for multiple competing realities

[saint_ed]

Worth remembering the raft of new long term contracts that were handed out over the past couple of seasons.

[saint_ed]

When Ralph was appointed he spoke alot about being sustainable "...that allows Southampton to remain healthy and sustainable in the future."

 

+ top 8 bonuses are not uncommon http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?49098-The-real-reason-that-we-sacrificed-the-cups#.U9dqQGK9KK0

 

Perhaps some players had similar deals?

 

 

Good find, quite possibly. And there have been a lot of murmurings that players aren't receiving bonuses promised to them.

[Smirking_Saint]

Income from future success going to players in the form of higher wages and bonuses - how odd

 

The idea of the situation becoming unsustainable is not an inevitability. It is contingent on future success which may or may not have happened -probably not if you believe that we've hit a ceiling. And needless to say, future success may have unlocked new, offsetting revenue streams. So it's largely speculative handwringing. Of course, should the worst have happened, sales could have been conducted at that point, probably at an even bigger profit given we're assuming a world where players had been even more successful than this season.

 

All is known that the player wage bill as a % of turnover is currently one of the lowest in the league.

 

For all those who agonise over sponsorship and empty corporate boxes, it really is a drip in the ocean compared to TV money and akin to squeezing blood from a stone without firstly success on the pitch.

 

No matter how many Apple salesmen Ralphy employs, the board will quickly learn this painful lesson if it continues on its current path and that the best way to increase the bottom line is to cut costs, not increase revenues when your product is a pile of s**t.

 

This really, I dont buy Guideds waffle at all. Look at any comparative clubs sponsorship income the last two years and we are their with the other mid sized clubs. Also corperate entertainment was selling ok. You cant and dont build big revenue streams in the championship. Surely however if you are attempting to bring in more sponsorship and corperate revenue streams the demolition of the prized assets isnt a particularly intelligent way to go about it.

 

The financials show our wage bill was not massive by any stretch of the imagination and another top ten finish would have brought in a further 60m payout in the form of tv revenue and so effectively paid off the playing debt (of which were hardly groundbreaking lets be honest)

 

This arguement is wishy washy at best and another aimed at passing the buck to the ex chairman from the new.

[shurlock]

When Ralph was appointed he spoke alot about being sustainable "...that allows Southampton to remain healthy and sustainable in the future."

 

+ top 8 bonuses are not uncommon http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?49098-The-real-reason-that-we-sacrificed-the-cups#.U9dqQGK9KK0

 

Perhaps some players had similar deals?

 

Nice one Glasgow - it's odd that in all the discussions of new contracts for MP, we heard nothing about an automatic extension.

 

[Saint Troy]

Seems plausible, however the one floor is we didn't actually achieve ANYTHING last year. Bonuses are triggered by achievements and I simply do not believe there would be extortionate bonuses for finishing 8th (no European football, or trophies).

 

Im not sure how this all works in any way but if international recognition is ever a contract trigger then this could be a big deal and would include the likes of Lambert, Shaw, Lallana, Rodriguez, Schniderlain with possibilities of Clyne/Chambers/Cork not out the question completely. Maybe Adam did change after his England call up!

[Saint Without a Halo]

I just had a text from a football agent with strong ties to Southampton FC, who told me that the player budget at Saints was out of control. He suggested that the board was hamstrung by the commitments Cortese had made to both the players and Pochettino et al, which would have ensured that any future success on the field would have swallowed up income off of it and led to an unsustainable situation going forward, given our restricted income, with regard to sponsorship and crowds. Cortese had taken his focus off of the commercial income growth. In fact it was shrinking, due to the fact he was an unpleasant guy to deal with. Sony swore never to sponsor a box again, after the way they were treated last season.

 

So, my take is that to prevent all and more of the riches earned in the Premiership disappearing via players, their contracts, bonuses and constant demands, leading to an unsustainable future, it made sense to clear the decks and adjust the player budget to a level that a club our size, with 30,000 crowds and a tiny commercial income, compared with virtually any other club in the Premiership, could afford. Cutting our cloth in an area in which the majority of the overheads are spent. The area of greedy, spoilt, ungrateful, spoilt and self-obsessed children who can kick a ball around for a living. Better to start with new contracts than have to pay for the mistakes of the past.

 

English players? Cr@p and overpriced in my opinion.

 

Very convenient for the board to blame

 

1) the greedy staff (players and manager)

2) Cortese

 

Amazing isn't it how they are tarnishing the reputation of one of the best and most close knit teams we have ever had to justify their own incompetence

 

From the outside it looks to me like the club was run much better and tighter under NC than anything this lot have managed so far! Conjecture of course and I am still waiting for them to prove me wrong! So far everything they have said in public has been laced with untruths so why would I believe this latest leak!

[saint_ed]

Im not sure how this all works in any way but if international recognition is ever a contract trigger then this could be a big deal and would include the likes of Lambert, Shaw, Lallana, Rodriguez, Schniderlain with possibilities of Clyne/Chambers/Cork not out the question completely. Maybe Adam did change after his England call up!

 

They wouldn't have bonuses in their domestics contracts for international recognition.

[The9]

Doesn't change the lack of communication.

 

If they'd stated 'wages are unsustainable, we need to sell players and start over on more sensible terms' I'd have been fine with it. Depressing, but I'd always rather we do things the right way and not get into debt.

 

Except that doing that completely removes the opportunity of negotiating the kind of fees we have received. So we'd have had all the sales, but far less cash.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

We had a small squad and a lot of young players playing key roles. Our wage bill must still have been a fraction of say, West Ham's.

 

Plus, it was pretty clear we had some major assets. We would have sold Shaw anyway this summer, and would have recouped 30m which would more than cover any playing costs.

 

Of course, the playing budget in the Championship will be lower.

 

Maybe it isn't a question of what they are (were) on but what they were promised, and the dimwits sucked it all up. And when KL said "hang on a mo' they all started spitting their dummies out. There are a few left who have the ability to think for themselves, but most are just in it for as much as they can get, and their stock is currently as high as it is ever likely to get (as most of us on here readily admit).

 

IMO the club are doing the right thing - get rid of the grumblers (for as much as they can get) and rebuild. But they can't say that openly in so many words or slag the lot of them off in public. The Board want to try to keep a semblance of professionalism, even though it is a real struggle when getting dumped on by the manager and one player after another with an overblown sense of entitlement.

[Sour Mash]

They wouldn't have bonuses in their domestics contracts for international recognition.

Why not? Wouldn't surprise me if they did.

[saint_ed]

Maybe it isn't a question of what they are (were) on but what they were promised, and the dimwits sucked it all up. And when KL said "hang on a mo' they all started spitting their dummies out. There are a few left who have the ability to think for themselves, but most are just in it for as much as they can get, and their stock is currently as high as it is ever likely to get (as most of us on here readily admit).

 

IMO the club are doing the right thing - get rid of the grumblers (for as much as they can get) and rebuild. But they can't say that openly in so many words or slag the lot of them off in public. The Board want to try to keep a semblance of professionalism, even though it is a real struggle when getting dumped on by the manager and one player after another with an overblown sense of entitlement.

 

People should stop accepting that the players are grumbling and ask the question why. They were perfectly happy 6 months ago.

[saint_ed]

Why not? Wouldn't surprise me if they did.

 

Because that's not for the club to financially reward.

[Saint Without a Halo]

So Chambers was on a huge contract with bonuses too and we needed him off our books these excuses begger belief

based on this all our incomings (when they eventually appear) must be on less than Chambers no wonder we are having problems convincing the big raft of excellent players who want to come here to put pen to paper.

Edited 29 July, 2014 by Saint Without a Halo