Redslo Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Probably the use of the word 'yid'. Some do deem the word offensive. The word actually is offensive, even bigoted. However, I don't think it fits the definition of racist--at least it doesn't in the United States. Where, I should point out, racism is legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 The word actually is offensive, even bigoted. However, I don't think it fits the definition of racist--at least it doesn't in the United States. Where, I should point out, racism is legal. It's legal in Britain too. Unless you're white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 I just read that... and whilst i did smirk alot..... i thought "how the f**k did we spend that kind of money on him and get away with it.... anyway for me.... its as clear as daylight that morgan,big vic and even cork as defensive type midfielders were the real reason for Lovren looking a good player... Big Vic is like a "human bus" Totally agree, the success of a player doesn't always depend on his own skill / technique, but that of the players around him, who .. sometimes ..make him look better than he is in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Our start has given us a platform for a Top 6 finish, 5th or 6 - which I believe we will manage to achieve. I didn't think that at the start of the season, but there's something different with us this year. I can sense something happening. It's not an exaggeration, just watch them. Listen to their fans. They are a rabble, horrible to watch, no cohesive play, no pattern, nothing. They'll get the odd result here and there, but Top 10 at best for them I reckon. They lack proven quality anywhere apart from GK. Clarkey - they did look better than us at WHL even if Sadio should have levelled things up. They are not a rabble, and MP is not a bad Manager. Spurs are an impossibly overhyped team with crushing expectations and MP let us down with a drawn out, guarded departure. Despite all that I expect several sides to pass us in the next 28 games and Spurs could we one of them. I bloody hope not though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dellboypete Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 I just read that... and whilst i did smirk alot..... i thought "how the f**k did we spend that kind of money on him and get away with it.... anyway for me.... its as clear as daylight that morgan,big vic and even cork as defensive type midfielders were the real reason for Lovren looking a good player... Big Vic is like a "human bus" I was just thinking the same thing. But I didn't realise how poor he was considered in France, but it says a lot for Poch as he was a brilliant signing for us (imo), and the profit we made on him has certainly helped us to improve our squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 It's legal in Britain too. Unless you're white. Aside from the fact that what you said is not true, my point is that racism is legal in the US for whites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Iron Gonads Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Totally agree, the success of a player doesn't always depend on his own skill / technique, but that of the players around him, who .. sometimes ..make him look better than he is in reality. Jack Wilshere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 The word actually is offensive, even bigoted. However, I don't think it fits the definition of racist--at least it doesn't in the United States. Where, I should point out, racism is legal. I struggle with this stuff. Yid. Yiddish. Paki. Pakistani. If the shortened versions of these words are "offensive why isn't it offensive to call a British person a Brit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 I struggle with this stuff. Yid. Yiddish. Paki. Pakistani. If the shortened versions of these words are "offensive why isn't it offensive to call a British person a Brit? This thread is going down a bad path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 I am really enjoying the schadenfreude side of this thread. Please can we not get it locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 (edited) This thread is going down a bad path. But why? I honestly want to know why some words are deemed "racist" and others aren't. Am I supposed to take offence if someone calls me a Pommie or a Limey? If I say that someone is a Pakistani that is fine. Shorten it to Paki and I am a bad person??? Edited 4 November, 2014 by sadoldgit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 But why? I honestly want to know why some words are deemed "racist" and others aren't. Am I supposed to take offence if someone calls me a Pommie or a Limey? If I say that someone is a Pakistani that is fine. Shorten it to Paki and I am a bad person??? The same way any word becomes anything. It enters into the common language being used a certain way and comes to be understood to mean that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 But why? I honestly want to know why some words are deemed "racist" and others aren't. Am I supposed to take offence if someone calls me a Pommie or a Limey? If I say that someone is a Pakistani that is fine. Shorten it to Paki and I am a bad person??? Ok, fair enough, but could you do it on another thread so that this one doesn't get locked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 The same way any word becomes anything. It enters into the common language being used a certain way and comes to be understood to mean that. I do agree with that and the need to avoid offending people. That said simply replacing words with a new one because its perceived as being abusive is pointless because the new word simply means the same after a while . Spastic and retarded were simple medical terms to describe symptoms. Queer became offensive so was replaced with gay and now queer is in again and ghey is offensive. How is disabled less offensive than handicapped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 The same way any word becomes anything. It enters into the common language being used a certain way and comes to be understood to mean that. Can you see my point though? By calling someone a name that is a shortened version of the language that is used by many of their nationals, that is racist. "Used in a certain way." So I have a couple of friends who are "Gay". Is it still okay to call them that nowadays? My point is who decides? Some in the black culture call each other the N word and that is fine? Surely it should be intent rather than the actual word that determines what is racist or not? They are just words at the end of the day. The F word used to be taboo on TV and now is common place. Even the C word is used after 9pm now. I went to a mixed wedding earlier this year. The father of the groom, who is Asian, stood up and made a series of jokes about all of the corner shops being closed in the area because everyone was at the wedding. No doubt if I had said that I would have been branded a racist. We really need to lighten up and deal with proper racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 This thread is going down a bad path. But why? http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/announcement.php?f=5&a=1 DO check that what you are writing is relevant to the forum you are on. Any post deemed unsuitable to the forum topic will be moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 It is relevant because I was responding to a comment about racism. But if you want me to shut up I will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 They bought the player, but they can't buy the team spirit, the cohesion, or the belief of the team that helped him become such a good player. Chambers is the only player who looks anywhere near as good as last season so far, and I think that our team spirit and cohesion plays a huge part in that. A good team is way more than the sum of its parts. Teams buying our 'parts' are finding that out. They can (and in Shaw's case, I'm sure will) still be excellent players, but unless you've got a free role up front, most players need to work with their teammates to get the best out of each other and themselves. We've clearly got a fantastic culture and belief in our club that helps that... others have tried to buy it from us, without realising what the real source of our success is. I disagree Minty. I think that Chambers has been poor this season. His poor positional play has lead to a number of goals against and whilst it is not down to him alone, Arsenal have looked weak at the back. I was going to say he offers nothing going forward but appreciate he has scored his first goal and provided a cross that led to Arsenals equaliser in Europe the other week - but apart from that he was very poor and was at fault for the goal they conceded. He may well flourish but at the moment I think too much is expected of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Clarkey - they did look better than us at WHL even if Sadio should have levelled things up. They are not a rabble, and MP is not a bad Manager. Spurs are an impossibly overhyped team with crushing expectations and MP let us down with a drawn out, guarded departure. Despite all that I expect several sides to pass us in the next 28 games and Spurs could we one of them. I bloody hope not though. It depends on how one describes a rabble. Certainly Spurs are a team of individual star players who cannot gel together so far, despite the majority of them having been together long enough since they were bought in for massively inflated prices with the Bale money. Koeman inherited a team shorn of its best players and had to integrate them and their replacements into a cohesive unit, which he has done very effectively in less time than Pochettino had. Maybe it can be argued that Pochettino is also over-hyped beyond his capabilities. So Spurs beat us a WHL and Liverpool beat us at Anfield. For those wins to have any real meaning, they have to beat us down here. Anybody considering that the top 7 was the exclusive preserve of Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Everton, will not have seen so many of them having such shaky starts to a season ever before. I can see us finishing above those last three and maybe United too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 I disagree Minty. I think that Chambers has been poor this season. His poor positional play has lead to a number of goals against and whilst it is not down to him alone, Arsenal have looked weak at the back. I was going to say he offers nothing going forward but appreciate he has scored his first goal and provided a cross that led to Arsenals equaliser in Europe the other week - but apart from that he was very poor and was at fault for the goal they conceded. He may well flourish but at the moment I think too much is expected of him. Agreed, plus he has picked up a flurry of bookings in each of his initial batch of games. Which is either unlucky (repeatedly), a sign of a poorer defender, or having to do some last ditch desperate stuff over and over. Hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Agreed, plus he has picked up a flurry of bookings in each of his initial batch of games. Which is either unlucky (repeatedly), a sign of a poorer defender, or having to do some last ditch desperate stuff over and over. Hmmm He probably has done the best of those that have left but then I think Arsenal have almost as many players injured as fit if Wenger had a full squad to pick from I wonder how much game time Chambers would have seen TBH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 But why? I honestly want to know why some words are deemed "racist" and others aren't. Am I supposed to take offence if someone calls me a Pommie or a Limey? If I say that someone is a Pakistani that is fine. Shorten it to Paki and I am a bad person??? If you called an Indian or Sri Lankan a Pakistani you probably wouldn't be fine, or at the very least, would be corrected. I think half the problem with the term "Paki" is that it's applied to far too many people. The other half of the problem is the context in which it's used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 If you called an Indian or Sri Lankan a Pakistani you probably wouldn't be fine, or at the very least, would be corrected. I think half the problem with the term "Paki" is that it's applied to far too many people. The other half of the problem is the context in which it's used. Or if people in the street start shouting it at an English woman whose dad happens to be from Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Why is there the need to turn this thread into a debate on racism? Have some of you got bored about discussing the actual topic of the thread and don't have anything pertinent to add to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Why is there the need to turn this thread into a debate on racism? Have some of you got bored about discussing the actual topic of the thread and don't have anything pertinent to add to it? I blame the mods for not upholding the forum rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Anyway back to the Topic. Real 4 Liverhampton 0 anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Speaking of defectors, here's Eyal Berkovic's latest experience away from the home of football: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29898203 Wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 lambert on bench (according to reports) with Borini starting up front WTF!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 lambert on bench (according to reports) with Borini starting up front WTF!!! Real Madrid vs Liverpool LIVE: Steven Gerrard, Raheem Sterling, Mario Balotelli, Dejan Lovren and Glen Johnson set to be rested by Brendan Rodgers http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2820574/Real-Madrid-vs-Liverpool-LIVE-Follow-Champions-League-action.html#comments Shame if true about Lovren. But if it is true, Brenda is a spineless fool, and I suspect the Scousers won't forgive him for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 This defector watch thing is really easy at the moment! Just look down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Real Madrid vs Liverpool LIVE: Steven Gerrard, Raheem Sterling, Mario Balotelli, Dejan Lovren and Glen Johnson set to be rested by Brendan Rodgers http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2820574/Real-Madrid-vs-Liverpool-LIVE-Follow-Champions-League-action.html#comments Shame if true about Lovren. But if it is true, Brenda is a spineless fool, and I suspect the Scousers won't forgive him for this. tbf Gerrard, Balotelli, Lovren and Johnson deserve to be dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Damned Premier League have Lallana up for goal of the month with not a sign of Grazziano!!! https://twitter.com/premierleague Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Damned Premier League have Lallana up for goal of the month with not a sign of Grazziano!!! https://twitter.com/premierleague The QPR game was in September if you're referring to that goal. The goal in the Cup won't count. The 2 against Sunderland weren't amazing finishes all being told. (2nd was decent tbf) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 I struggle with this stuff. Yid. Yiddish. Paki. Pakistani. If the shortened versions of these words are "offensive why isn't it offensive to call a British person a Brit? It would be if there was a history of British people being discriminated against and that term being used as a derogatory term. Is there? I do not know for certain. I know that Brit is not used that way in the United States. A lot depends on context, but non-Jewish Tottenham fans can't turn a derogatory term for Jews into something ok--just like Washington Redskin fans are fighting a losing battle defending that team nickname. But it is not all political correctness run wild. For example, no one is attacking British coaches for referring to their players as "boys" even though in the United States a white person who refers to an African American male teenager or adult as "boy" would definitely be being racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 I disagree Minty. I think that Chambers has been poor this season. His poor positional play has lead to a number of goals against and whilst it is not down to him alone, Arsenal have looked weak at the back. I was going to say he offers nothing going forward but appreciate he has scored his first goal and provided a cross that led to Arsenals equaliser in Europe the other week - but apart from that he was very poor and was at fault for the goal they conceded. He may well flourish but at the moment I think too much is expected of him. But he is getting to play at a top level team and in the Champions League and undoubtedly learning a lot. He certainly has, because of injuries, played more at Arsenal than he would have here. Chambers is the one outward transfer who undoubtedly does not regret his move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 I've just asked ms pap, a staunch and occasionally quite frightening LFC fan, if she wants to watch Real Madrid vs Liverpool? She asked in return, "Do I have to?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 I've just asked ms pap, a staunch and occasionally quite frightening LFC fan, if she wants to watch Real Madrid vs Liverpool? She asked in return, "Do I have to?" LOL sounds like the LFC fan at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 LOL sounds like the LFC fan at work. She says she had a "sh!t day that was cheered up by flowers , and was not going to be f××ked up by Liverpool f××king Football Club". Gotta love that scouse sense of humour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Lol at the Liverpool team! Lallana amongst a shadow team. Lambert and Lovren not on the bench. #notthebestmovelads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 ****ing hell I feel for Lambert. Brenda decides to rest a load of first teamers and still Lambert can't even get on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Rodgers has bottled it with that line up. Accepted they didn't have a chance of winning so he's rested their 'best players' for the Chelsea game they'll lose anyway. Crazy. Real could get double figures tonight. And even if, by a miracle of God, they beat Real tonight, he's basically told the world his unfavoured players are better than his first choices. Lallana vs Real. That's what he signed up for! (No Dejan though. Shame.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 You would expect a stronger team when they play away to Bournemouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Rodgers has bottled it with that line up. Accepted they didn't have a chance of winning so he's rested their 'best players' for the Chelsea game they'll lose anyway. Crazy. Real could get double figures tonight. And even if, by a miracle of God, they beat Real tonight, he's basically told the world his unfavoured players are better than his first choices. Lallana vs Real. That's what he signed up for! (No Dejan though. Shame.) Disgusting, very much the attitude that it doesn't matter how you do in the CL as long as you get the financial boost of being there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Bottling a game, even if it's highly unwinnable and against Real Madrid, doesn't show much ambition does it? I'd say it was pretty disgraceful really, and totally disrespectful to the fans. Rodgers is going to look very stupid if they don't get a result against Chelsea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 tbf Gerrard, Balotelli, Lovren and Johnson deserve to be dropped. They can dress it up all they like - rested my arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Hope Real absolutely stuff Liverpool tonight. Rodgers isn't helping himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 I actually feel sorry for the Liverpool fans who have paid all that money to be there tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 Never mind, anything that gives them even the minutest of chance of taking a point off Chelsea on Saturday is all in the plus column of the ledger for us really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
September Saint Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 I actually feel sorry for the Liverpool fans who have paid all that money to be there tonight. Me too! Annoyed with the whole Lovren/Lallana business but we've improved vis a vis Liverpool so let's indulge in that warm feeling that says we've got one over the big boys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Iron Gonads Posted 4 November, 2014 Share Posted 4 November, 2014 So where exactly are Lambert and Lovren watching this game from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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